-----------------

poster: Silver
subject: Halfelf
date: Sun Sep 24 19:11:07 2000

Decided to post this cause nobody else has decided to use this news
group yet, and I've never posted anything before!
Just wanted to point out that the Halfelf race is much more suited
to fighting now after the conversion - their strength and stamina
have shot up!  Good for me, cause I already was a Halfelf fighter,
and was beginning to regret my choice!

-----------------

poster: Golte
subject: size
date: Sun Sep 24 20:18:37 2000

I noticed as newreinced you are unable to wield any decent 
2h weapons, even if you have a great strength (over 400). 
Now if i will be able to do that after growing some, 
it will be no problem being a warrior (unless i'd like to
try some smaller race some time i guess). 

But since we wont have time to grow very much during 
test-reincs it means that we can not really test warrior
during this period. 
I also guess alot of casters whould like to know if they
will be able to wield their gear after growing, same with
lower warriors that bought good weapons. 

How about a button in adv, that you can press for growing
once, just for the test-period? 
After all this is the first test-period ever when your size has
mattered. 

/Golte

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poster: Arkangyle
subject: Parry
date: Sun Oct  1 06:33:28 2000

  With the recent change to the fighter guilds, it has become more
and more common for warriors to be wielding shields.
  There is a problem as I see it though.  In general, the shield is
for defense, the weapon for offense.  However, you can only choose
to either parry, or not parry.
  Could it be possible for us to allow for selective parry so that
we can use the shields for what they were intended, while keeping
everything ourselve in an offensive posture?


-Arkangyle

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poster: Squee
subject: Shield Skill
date: Sun Nov  5 01:56:38 2000

I think we should have the Shield skill down lower. Fighters use
Shields and Swords more often than anything else and that makes the
most sense to me.
Thankies

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poster: Urg
subject: shields 
date: Sun Nov  5 10:44:49 2000

squee makes sense - as we DO have newbie size shields in wep shop -
reckon it should be a basic skill - or if not should be somewhere in
warrior tree

-----------------

poster: Silver
subject: Sheilds
date: Sun Nov  5 16:18:57 2000

Yeah, the shield skill could fit into the original fighters guild. 
I mean, how many fighters out there use stabbing or whipping
weapons?  I've only ever seen players use slashing weapons, and very
rarely blunt weapons.

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >Sheilds
date: Sun Nov  5 19:07:42 2000

On Sun Nov  5 16:18:57 2000 Silver wrote post #6:
> Yeah, the shield skill could fit into the original fighters guild. 
> I mean, how many fighters out there use stabbing or whipping
> weapons?  I've only ever seen players use slashing weapons, and very
> rarely blunt weapons.
I've used all the weapon types save shield and 
am a level from that one. :P
As it is, you can still use the shields for their stats and you still 
bash monsies with your shields on rare occassion(despite the fact you 
don't have any multiweapon skill trained let alone shield skill.)

As near as I can tell, all the other weapons types far outnumber shields 
and their seem to be no good shields in that 150k-1.5m pricerange a 
stronger lowbie/newbie could afford.  Black monk shield and sheet of 
green crystal are the only shields just slightly above shop eq 
and those are still sold at shops.

Recommend newbie just train slashing or blunt to start(there 
are some decent clubs and warhammers to be had).
If you see a strand of spidranox webbing in the shop, whipping 
skill is worth training to use that.  Is acid type damage, +3% ws whipping, 
has decent weapon class, and a minor special.  I've seen it there
twice so far so people undervalue it 
methinks.  Kindle axe, ash's sword, spidranox whip, black daggers are 
good wc and boost random mage spells I think, those are better 
than avg newbie weapons despite no stats(their wc seems good).

I don't think shields will be much use till you get the other skills 
asociated with them like shield parry and bash and whatnot.  Also, 
if I'm not mistaken, shields will only ever be able to be wielded 
in your left hand.  Without multiweapon skill(knight level 4), 
you still won't be able to bring the shield into play even if you 
have the skill trained.

That's all for my spammy post. :)

-pedron

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: black daggers
date: Sun Nov  5 19:09:27 2000

Just the black daggers boost random mage skill, sorry for run-on 
sentence there.

-pedron

-----------------

poster: Squee
subject: >>Shields
date: Sun Nov  5 19:11:19 2000

Well, a lot of newbie have adapted it their Duty to tank for
Parties, so, naturally, they want protection. Unfortunately, we
don't have the most basic of natural fighting skills, and cannot
properly use a shield, though using a Whip is in life much harder,
it doesn't seem so here.
As for training other things, what's the point? Can you honestly
protect yourself from attacks with a Club or a Sword? No, they're
for damage. That's not what most of us are looking for, we want to
be able to use a shield as a shield, the way it should be.

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>>Shields
date: Sun Nov  5 19:14:15 2000

On Sun Nov  5 19:11:19 2000 Squee wrote post #9:
> Well, a lot of newbie have adapted it their Duty to tank for
> Parties, so, naturally, they want protection. Unfortunately, we
> don't have the most basic of natural fighting skills, and cannot
> properly use a shield, though using a Whip is in life much harder,
> it doesn't seem so here.
> As for training other things, what's the point? Can you honestly
> protect yourself from attacks with a Club or a Sword? No, they're
> for damage. That's not what most of us are looking for, we want to
> be able to use a shield as a shield, the way it should be.
Shields don't contribute to defense until you get the defensive 
skills associated with shields.  Only contributions are stats, res's, 
and the occassional bash.  There is also a blade parry skill at a
higher up level 
that does let you use slashing weapons for defense.
Shields have a weapon class, no armor class, and being able to 
use them as weapons isn't supported by your arguments about need 
for more defensive power.

-pedron

-----------------

poster: Squee
subject: >>>>Shields
date: Sun Nov  5 19:15:27 2000

Well, why don't we HAVE a defensive Shield skill then? That seems to
make more sense than trying to be graceful with a giant wooden
circle on your hand.

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>>>>Shields
date: Sun Nov  5 19:18:12 2000

On Sun Nov  5 19:15:27 2000 Squee wrote post #11:
> Well, why don't we HAVE a defensive Shield skill then? That seems to
> make more sense than trying to be graceful with a giant wooden
> circle on your hand.
You DO have the defensive skill, but you won't need/get it till 
defenders along with the other bunch of shield skills. :P
Note you can get shield parries in a gamma guild 
which is a bit sooner than blade parry in the bravo guilds. :P
Fighters already have 10 million weapon skills, another won't make 
any difference at this point.

-pedron

-----------------

poster: Squee
subject: >>>>>>>Shields
date: Sun Nov  5 19:19:58 2000

A shield is meant for defensive purposes, not to smash someone's
head in. And you brought up a good point. We have too many weapon
skills. Let's move Whip and Piercing up, and move that defensive
shield skill we 
"have"
down, just to make it fair.

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>>>>>>>Shields
date: Mon Nov  6 18:03:40 2000

yadda yadda yadda.  "my world where I run around as a race that
doesn't exist, casting spells at other things that don't exist,
doesn't make perfect sense to me"
rant rant bitch moan rant rant rant

-----------------

poster: Squee
subject: >>>>>>>Shields
date: Mon Nov  6 21:22:25 2000

Rant bitch moan
Wait, now that we've established that this Mud isn't at all supposed
to be real, I want to be able to fly and phase out of consistency
from time to time
That DOES work here right?

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>>>>>>>Shields
date: Mon Nov  6 21:34:44 2000

On Mon Nov  6 21:22:25 2000 Squee wrote post #15:
> Rant bitch moan
> Wait, now that we've established that this Mud isn't at all supposed
> to be real, I want to be able to fly and phase out of consistency
> from time to time
> That DOES work here right?
Flight works for me }=>  and feel free to point out any consistency we
haven't obliterated

-----------------

poster: Urg
subject: shields
date: Tue Nov  7 22:37:02 2000

with all this thing about why they are offense wep - why not just
make them an armor - but with a skill to improve their effectiveness
as this seems more correct, and maybe simply limit people to one
weapon when they have a shield as an armor - dont know how code
would work for that tho
just an idea....URG

-----------------

poster: Squee
subject: (Umpteen >'s) Shields
date: Tue Nov  7 22:37:53 2000

how about it counts as armor but takes a Weapon Slot?

-----------------

poster: Zax
subject: >(Umpteen >'s) Shields
date: Wed Nov  8 02:58:36 2000

shield used to be just armour. i think it was changed becos it was
considered silly for everyone to simply have a "shield" slot like
the would an amulet or belt or whatever slot. figs/mages/everyone
would wander around with 2/3/4 weapons and their shield. instead of
making it so that it did nothing as a weapon slot they decided to
make it so that shields were still useful, thus giving them a weapon
skill and some other stuf in the defenders guild. they could
probably change it so that shields simply take a weapon slot with no
skills associated with id(thus making anyone using a shield half as
effective in xp) or an armour slot (thus making shields a
"necessary" item of eq for everyone), either way they would be
removing a couple of skills. so at the end of the day if you just
want them to remove a few skills, i suggest that you either a) don't
join the guild and don't get these skills or b) join the guild but
don't train the skills. thus way you can keep yourself in theme with
whatever ideas you have, and don't need to ask for the wizzes to
change anything.

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: figs
date: Wed Dec  6 17:43:03 2000

hmm, maybe i play too much diablo
a skill called body of mana, drains your mana instead of hp when
hits received until mana is depleted, then hits take health

-lu, the rambler in training

-----------------

poster: Blackthorne
subject: >figs
date: Wed Dec  6 22:33:54 2000

you play too much diablo...maybe we should also introduce godly
plate of the whale and archangel's staff of apocalypse. but,
seriously, it's not a bad idea.
-B

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>figs
date: Thu Dec  7 00:46:57 2000

In diablo it is only a % of damage you take anyway.  

and screw plate of whale, all I want is 2 stones of jordan

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>figs
date: Thu Dec  7 01:19:17 2000

On Thu Dec  7 00:46:57 2000 Magneto wrote post #22:
> In diablo it is only a % of damage you take anyway.  
> 
> and screw plate of whale, all I want is 2 stones of jordan
nah barbarian amulet is bettrer, mmm, +2 all barb skills

-----------------

poster: Grasfer
subject: >>>>figs
date: Thu Dec  7 09:43:51 2000

I got 2 jordan ring.. :).. the rock..

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>>>>figs
date: Thu Dec  7 20:10:26 2000

On Thu Dec  7 09:43:51 2000 Grasfer wrote post #24:
> I got 2 jordan ring.. :).. the rock..
hate you =P

-----------------

poster: Grasfer
subject: >>>>>>figs
date: Fri Dec  8 09:12:32 2000

Hehe... :)

-----------------

poster: Sumerion
subject: >>>>>>>figs
date: Fri Dec  8 09:25:08 2000

hmm..the rings is only thing in his set thats u'res...the rest he
stolen from me:=)

-----------------

poster: Hierokliff
subject: warriors
date: Thu Dec 28 21:33:41 2000

Reasons and changes that would be nice to see...Now i could of cuz be
totally wrong as useall but anyway need to let of some steem after been
a hpmeatwall for a day.

 - Parry & shield deflections are pretty useless vs specials and since
   most coders put the damage output in specials it is pretty pointless
   to use these skills.
 - Charge, 490eps for something that does less damage then db or bf? 
   and dont stun or anything, maybe it does but i haven't seen it do 
   anything fun yet...
 - EP regen. 460-490 eps cost for using weapon skills are pretty sad, 
   would love to see these costs halved and all ref spells effect halved 
   also. 
 - Champion trance, hmm wish i did know if it did actually do any good
   at all in combat.
 - Change some auto-combat skills to be useage skills, atm figs are very
   VERY boring, you use "kill a monster;use bladed fury" then chain 
   bladed fury in combat. Very boring compaired to MA where you have to
   keep up dussins of skills.

//Hierokliff after a day as warrior

-----------------

poster: Anyone
subject: ma
date: Sat Jan  6 05:03:20 2001

Martial artists should get 'unarmed combat' as skill. All the low
lvls attack skills have unarmed combat as affecting skill...
>>Anyone

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poster: Seth
subject: >ma
date: Sat Jan  6 05:03:44 2001

agree

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>ma
date: Sat Jan  6 05:42:39 2001

On Sat Jan  6 05:03:44 2001 Seth wrote post #30:
> agree
Warriors have unarmed combat skill but I spose that's the 
wrong side of the tree. :P

-pedron

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: >>>ma
date: Sat Jan  6 05:43:34 2001

On Sat Jan  6 05:42:39 2001 Pedron wrote post #31:
> On Sat Jan  6 05:03:44 2001 Seth wrote post #30:
> > agree
> Warriors have unarmed combat skill but I spose that's the 
> wrong side of the tree. :P
> 
> -pedron
Last time I checked, warriors wasn't part of the MA guild tree...

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>>>ma
date: Sat Jan  6 05:44:13 2001

On Sat Jan  6 05:43:34 2001 Tranquil wrote post #32:
> On Sat Jan  6 05:42:39 2001 Pedron wrote post #31:
> > On Sat Jan  6 05:03:44 2001 Seth wrote post #30:
> > > agree
> > Warriors have unarmed combat skill but I spose that's the 
> > wrong side of the tree. :P
> > 
> > -pedron
> Last time I checked, warriors wasn't part of the MA guild tree...
nod, that's why I supposed 'that's the wrong side of the tree. :P '

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: >>>>>ma
date: Sat Jan  6 05:44:58 2001

On Sat Jan  6 05:44:13 2001 Pedron wrote post #33:
> On Sat Jan  6 05:43:34 2001 Tranquil wrote post #32:
> > On Sat Jan  6 05:42:39 2001 Pedron wrote post #31:
> > > On Sat Jan  6 05:03:44 2001 Seth wrote post #30:
> > > > agree
> > > Warriors have unarmed combat skill but I spose that's the 
> > > wrong side of the tree. :P
> > > 
> > > -pedron
> > Last time I checked, warriors wasn't part of the MA guild tree...
> nod, that's why I supposed 'that's the wrong side of the tree. :P '
MA doesnt have a 'wrong side of the tree' =) it IS a tree =)

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>>>>>ma
date: Sat Jan  6 06:13:53 2001

On Sat Jan  6 05:44:58 2001 Tranquil wrote post #34:
> On Sat Jan  6 05:44:13 2001 Pedron wrote post #33:
> > On Sat Jan  6 05:43:34 2001 Tranquil wrote post #32:
> > > On Sat Jan  6 05:42:39 2001 Pedron wrote post #31:
> > > > On Sat Jan  6 05:03:44 2001 Seth wrote post #30:
> > > > > agree
> > > > Warriors have unarmed combat skill but I spose that's the 
> > > > wrong side of the tree. :P
> > > > 
> > > > -pedron
> > > Last time I checked, warriors wasn't part of the MA guild tree...
> > nod, that's why I supposed 'that's the wrong side of the tree. :P '
> MA doesnt have a 'wrong side of the tree' =) it IS a tree =)
Warriors are on the other side of the fighter guildtree from 
ma. :P

-----------------

poster: Warchief
subject: >ma
date: Sun Jan  7 00:32:39 2001

On Sat Jan  6 05:03:20 2001 Anyone wrote post #29:
> Martial artists should get 'unarmed combat' as skill. All the low
> lvls attack skills have unarmed combat as affecting skill...
> >>Anyone

Umm, the unarmed combat skill does not increase the effectiveness of
hits without weapons, it is purely to increase the strength of
punch, kick, and forearm bash.  Check the skill type.  MAs only have
access to punch, so I don't think that this would add very much. 
They have strong enough hits and you get an awesome attack skill
later on.

-Chief

-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: >>ma
date: Sun Jan  7 00:37:40 2001

On Sun Jan  7 00:32:39 2001 Warchief wrote post #36:
> On Sat Jan  6 05:03:20 2001 Anyone wrote post #29:
> > Martial artists should get 'unarmed combat' as skill. All the low
> > lvls attack skills have unarmed combat as affecting skill...
> > >>Anyone
> 
> Umm, the unarmed combat skill does not increase the effectiveness of
> hits without weapons, it is purely to increase the strength of
> punch, kick, and forearm bash.  Check the skill type.  MAs only have
> access to punch, so I don't think that this would add very much. 
> They have strong enough hits and you get an awesome attack skill
> later on.
> 
> -Chief
Why shouldn't ma's have access to the unarmed combat skill, it's
only for punch etc yes, but that's the only skill u get at lower
lvls.
*/Snoop