-----------------
poster: Balinor
subject: guild item
date: Tue May 7 15:49:13 2002
Just curious here. If some of the wizzes could tell how hard it is
to code a guild item to work properly.
It would be great to have a black mask of the assassin, or any other
item for assassin guild.
That would be a great improvement,even if there isn't plans to touch
the guild in other ways
-Bal the black mask
-----------------
poster: Zifnab
subject: >guild item
date: Tue May 7 15:57:49 2002
On Tue May 7 15:49:13 2002 Balinor wrote post #1:
> Just curious here. If some of the wizzes could tell how hard it is
> to code a guild item to work properly.
> It would be great to have a black mask of the assassin, or any other
> item for assassin guild.
> That would be a great improvement,even if there isn't plans to touch
> the guild in other ways
> -Bal the black mask
the guild item is not the problem. As was carried in a thread a few
weeks ago, the current incarnation of the rogue guild we have does
not fit with what Red Dragon has become. some like that, some don't.
Until the guild is rewritten from the ground up (not an easy task
since most peoples ideas center around player -vs- player conflict)
there will not be a guild item.
-----------------
poster: Sleet
subject: thief guild
date: Thu May 9 05:24:11 2002
i had an idea i was thinkign maybe the next guild thats put in
should concentrate on more hits.
Durign the new event dhrugs rage i noticed that my damage output was
increased sharply, i thought this might be a great way to up the
guild slightly for higher worth thieves. im nto sure if we have a
skill for that, but i think that if there was a nother skill that
maybe added another couple hits after whirlwind the guild would put
out alot more damage
-----------------
poster: Gerrik
subject: hide
date: Mon May 13 07:28:38 2002
one way to solve the "thiefs unable to backstab in parties" problem
is make it so thieves who are hidden won't be forced into combat by
other party members attacking. I realize the thief guilds need a lot
of work but this kind of tune might make them a bit more feasible
for exp and partying untill the thief tree can get redone.
-gerrik-
-----------------
poster: Sirk
subject: hide upgrade
date: Mon May 13 12:52:36 2002
was thinking that it might be nice for advanced rogues to have a
enhanced hide skill
perhaps if a omicron is ever coded...such a skill while up would
revert the thief
back to being hidden after combat...so that he could be up to
use backstab at target for several monsters before having to hide
again...as a master thief
should be able to slip right back into the shadows
on a side note, with the recent tunes to monsters like dragons,
perhaps a skill for thiefs
that allow them to single out a monster or prevent another from assisting
my 2 cents
sirk
-----------------
poster: Litho
subject: >hide upgrade
date: Tue May 14 05:21:49 2002
On Mon May 13 12:52:36 2002 Sirk wrote post #5:
> was thinking that it might be nice for advanced rogues to have a
> enhanced hide skill
> perhaps if a omicron is ever coded...such a skill while up would
> revert the thief
> back to being hidden after combat...so that he could be up to
> use backstab at target for several monsters before having to hide
> again...as a master thief
> should be able to slip right back into the shadows
> on a side note, with the recent tunes to monsters like dragons,
> perhaps a skill for thiefs
> that allow them to single out a monster or prevent another from assisting
> my 2 cents
> sirk
Hide keeps u hidden after combat. Look in score.
Just removes u from hidden during combat.
-----------------
poster: Zax
subject: >hide
date: Fri May 17 05:32:45 2002
On Mon May 13 07:28:38 2002 Gerrik wrote post #4:
> one way to solve the "thiefs unable to backstab in parties" problem
> is make it so thieves who are hidden won't be forced into combat by
> other party members attacking. I realize the thief guilds need a lot
> of work but this kind of tune might make them a bit more feasible
> for exp and partying untill the thief tree can get redone.
> -gerrik-
>
thieves being unable to backstab in parties isn't a problem.
If you want to make it so a thief is able to backstab an agro mob,
then I'd suggest you add a % chance that he'll backstab one of the
party members that is in combat with the mob. Backstab is supposed
to be used on a non-agro mob.
-----------------
poster: Sleet
subject: >>hide
date: Fri May 17 06:08:10 2002
why would you do that? We attack monsters all the time with other
things, i dont see why backstab would differ, 10 people at ocne can
use punch on a monster and not hit each other. The only thing i
could see as a problem with this is that it has to be a surprise
action, which could easily be solved by havign a circling skill, it
would only work when someoen else was engaged with the monster too,
it would allow the assasin to circle around the two fighting and
attack from behind. This would be upped be the use of hide
-----------------
poster: Lorric
subject: target pref
date: Sat Jun 1 04:36:27 2002
loged on to find target pref changed, i l'd at help skill target
preference to find syntax is changed to use target preference with
. what is location? i tried use target preference with
heart throw, heart, fatal and none of them would work or give me a
list of valid selections. how does this work now?
-----------------
poster: Litho
subject: >target pref
date: Sat Jun 1 05:06:19 2002
On Sat Jun 1 04:36:27 2002 Lorric wrote post #9:
> loged on to find target pref changed, i l'd at help skill target
> preference to find syntax is changed to use target preference with
> . what is location? i tried use target preference with
> heart throw, heart, fatal and none of them would work or give me a
> list of valid selections. how does this work now?
use target preference at heart/head/neck should work.
-----------------
poster: Sigwald
subject: >target pref
date: Sat Jun 1 06:03:07 2002
On Sat Jun 1 04:36:27 2002 Lorric wrote post #9:
> loged on to find target pref changed, i l'd at help skill target
> preference to find syntax is changed to use target preference with
> . what is location? i tried use target preference with
> heart throw, heart, fatal and none of them would work or give me a
> list of valid selections. how does this work now?
Well as stated in hell you need to use WITH. Listed locations in help
to have things be even more clear.
-----------------
poster: Zifnab
subject: >thief portal restrictions
date: Sun Jul 14 20:21:41 2002
> rogues worth, if not more).
>
> I humbly suggest that the level restriction be
> 1. At least a player level of 15
> 2. At least level 5 in either thief or acrobat
>
> I dunno, it makes more sense, even a high-level player
> has to "learn" to become a rogue. I don't see them just
> joining a guild and just magically becoming as worthy as someone who
> has spent more time/levels in the guild.
> That being said, i guess no one would take rogue as their second
> alpha if things were structured this way, but that would be OK with
> me :) Flame away .
>
>
Last I checked you had to be level 10 in rogue.
-----------------
poster: Switchblade
subject: Juggler anatomies and thief stabs
date: Thu Jul 18 17:59:11 2002
According to my reading of the skill descriptions
Lower body anatomy: "This skill allows the player to learn the
secrets of the lower body anatomy. By learning those secrets the
succesful thief will be able to do extra damage to that area.
Upper Body anatomy: ". . . .. By learning those secrets the
successful thief will be able to throw his knives at critical points
in that body area".
I recall someone telling me that training anatomies would also
increase stab damage (or perhaps they meant damage from regular
hits). From the descriptions of skills this seems to be true, at
least for the lower body anatomy. Perhaps someone out there knows
for certain whether I, as a stabber, should train anatomies? I have
no real interest in splitting Xp between stab masteries and knife
throws, so if it ain't stabby, it's probably not for me. Thanks!
-----------------
poster: Baer
subject: >Juggler anatomies and thief stabs
date: Fri Jul 19 00:52:45 2002
As it is now the juggler guild masteries only affect juggler guild
skills (ie throw knife).
This could change in the future with the thief guild redesign.
Baer
-----------------
poster: Sigwald
subject: >>Juggler anatomies and thief stabs
date: Fri Jul 19 08:43:30 2002
On Fri Jul 19 00:52:45 2002 Baer wrote post #15:
> As it is now the juggler guild masteries only affect juggler guild
> skills (ie throw knife).
>
> This could change in the future with the thief guild redesign.
>
> Baer
Hmm nod thats probably some idea to reuse this, less work to do too ;D.
-----------------
poster: Sleet
subject: >>>Juggler anatomies and thief stabs
date: Fri Jul 19 09:01:22 2002
On Fri Jul 19 08:43:30 2002 Sigwald wrote post #16:
> On Fri Jul 19 00:52:45 2002 Baer wrote post #15:
> > As it is now the juggler guild masteries only affect juggler guild
> > skills (ie throw knife).
> >
> > This could change in the future with the thief guild redesign.
> >
> > Baer
> Hmm nod thats probably some idea to reuse this, less work to do too ;D.
yaaa i wanan go to hawaii yaaaaa yaaaaa
-----------------
poster: Balinor
subject: Fatal strike
date: Fri Aug 23 14:53:04 2002
Could the Fatal strike limit be raised to same that juggler can do
fatals? since it's the same guild branch and higher level guild it
should be atleast the same. If i remember correctly fatal can be
done to mobs around 80k max and juggler can insta alot higher level
mobs up to 450k i think?
Anyway, could balance this out to make them both do to 300k or so
with the tiny chance it even has.
thanks,
_bal
-----------------
poster: Durin
subject: >Fatal strike
date: Fri Aug 23 14:56:32 2002
On Fri Aug 23 14:53:04 2002 Balinor wrote post #18:
> Could the Fatal strike limit be raised to same that juggler can do
> fatals? since it's the same guild branch and higher level guild it
> should be atleast the same. If i remember correctly fatal can be
> done to mobs around 80k max and juggler can insta alot higher level
> mobs up to 450k i think?
> Anyway, could balance this out to make them both do to 300k or so
> with the tiny chance it even has.
> thanks,
> _bal
Or other possible change would be to make this skill do/enhance
damage at least if it doesnt work, which it wont most times because
of the low level limit etc. It's one of the most expensive skills so
imo it would be understandable it had bigger effect on rogues
skills.
On the other hand Sigwald is gonna do the guild from scratch(?) in
the near future..
-Durin
-----------------
poster: Litho
subject: >Fatal strike
date: Sat Aug 24 11:03:18 2002
On Fri Aug 23 14:53:04 2002 Balinor wrote post #18:
> Could the Fatal strike limit be raised to same that juggler can do
> fatals? since it's the same guild branch and higher level guild it
> should be atleast the same. If i remember correctly fatal can be
> done to mobs around 80k max and juggler can insta alot higher level
> mobs up to 450k i think?
> Anyway, could balance this out to make them both do to 300k or so
> with the tiny chance it even has.
> thanks,
> _bal
I think thief fatal strike should be upped dramatically, WAY up,
since knife throw has a chance to insta each throw, or atleast make
it so stab can insta each stab as opposed to one/backstab..
-----------------
poster: Sigwald
subject: Troubadour guild
date: Mon Sep 9 17:27:52 2002
For whoever that play bards and give a damn, I may use a few
ideas to add other songs to Troubadours. If you got decent ideas,
mail me and I'll consider them (3 skills for one guild is sort
of low).
-----------------
poster: Spiraldancer
subject: Bard Instrument
date: Sat Oct 12 18:07:07 2002
I was thinking that maybe Bards could get weapon skill blunt as a
lvl 5 or so skill, seeing as how we have these cool new instruments
(thanks Daneel) to bash mobs upside the head with. It could be
argued that a bard would not want to hit someone with hi
s prized possession, but in that case I would think that it would
have been made a hand slot item and not a weapon. =)
-SpiralPoster
By the way, I am aware that witches have a weapon for a guild item
and don't get the weapon skill for it.
-----------------
poster: Sigwald
subject: Bard channel
date: Thu Oct 31 14:13:00 2002
Bard guild channel will work after next boot, I renamed the conflicting
bard emote 'bardemote'.
-----------------
poster: Goroharahad
subject: distant songs
date: Sun Apr 13 14:19:04 2003
I find it pretty weird to see bard songs work from away.
Ok for cleric, the prayers are directed to the gods. But aren't
bards supposed to affct other players through their charisma ?
Unless ppls carry over small TV sets i don't see how bards could
affect them from away.
Just a thought.
Goro
-----------------
poster: Baer
subject: >distant songs
date: Sun Apr 13 14:34:20 2003
On Sun Apr 13 14:19:04 2003 Goroharahad wrote post #24:
> I find it pretty weird to see bard songs work from away.
> Ok for cleric, the prayers are directed to the gods. But aren't
> bards supposed to affct other players through their charisma ?
> Unless ppls carry over small TV sets i don't see how bards could
> affect them from away.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Goro
Well the idea is that some bards have such powerful voices, they can
sing and you still hear them in the next room. Whether you can hear
them on a whole other island could be tough to justify, but thats
just how it works here for now. Maybe if the reorganisation of the
areas is fixed so we know what rooms are close to each other, we
could revisit this.
In the mean time, we could all start to carry TV sets..
-----------------
poster: Tektor
subject: >>distant songs
date: Sun Apr 13 19:00:33 2003
On Sun Apr 13 14:34:20 2003 Baer wrote post #25:
> On Sun Apr 13 14:19:04 2003 Goroharahad wrote post #24:
> > I find it pretty weird to see bard songs work from away.
> > Ok for cleric, the prayers are directed to the gods. But aren't
> > bards supposed to affct other players through their charisma ?
> > Unless ppls carry over small TV sets i don't see how bards could
> > affect them from away.
> >
> > Just a thought.
> >
> > Goro
> Well the idea is that some bards have such powerful voices, they can
> sing and you still hear them in the next room. Whether you can hear
> them on a whole other island could be tough to justify, but thats
> just how it works here for now. Maybe if the reorganisation of the
> areas is fixed so we know what rooms are close to each other, we
> could revisit this.
>
> In the mean time, we could all start to carry TV sets..
Weel in lotr gandalf could hear saruman yes they were wizards but i
think you get the point. I think bards kinda have a mystical quality
about them and their neat training allows them to carry their voices
over the wind to other people where ever they are. (and in a place
were people are slaying dragons i think it makes pretty good
sense).
-----------------
poster: Bluemoon
subject: >>>distant songs
date: Mon Apr 14 19:54:52 2003
If you have ever played AD&D you'd know bards have mystical magical
qualities, and its not just songs...they even get way more in depth
in different campaigns, with melodies vs. songnotes etc...but there
is a magical context to it, not sure if thats how its supposed to
work here but that would explain it a bit.
Moonie
-----------------
poster: Tranquil
subject: >>>>distant songs
date: Wed Apr 16 11:36:41 2003
On Mon Apr 14 19:54:52 2003 Bluemoon wrote post #27:
> If you have ever played AD&D you'd know bards have mystical magical
> qualities, and its not just songs...they even get way more in depth
> in different campaigns, with melodies vs. songnotes etc...but there
> is a magical context to it, not sure if thats how its supposed to
> work here but that would explain it a bit.
> Moonie
If you had ever played Islands of Myth, you would know that this is
not AD&D, it's Islands of myth. Before that, it was Red Dragon,
which still was not AD&D. But I concur with Baer on this one. we
should all carry our mobile phones with us (after all, mobile
videophone is at last here, so it makes some kind of sense, I
think).
Of course, with the ability to camcall everyone, all other guilds
should be able to distantly prot. In line with this general theme,
we should also be able to camcall our favorite mobs and blast them
to smitherines from across the mud.
All in all, distant bardyprots don't make a lot of sense, but look
at this game realistically - it's a game, and it's not coded to be
even close to what would be true of real life musicians. Bardyprots
working from a distance, is an appreciated feature. If Admin felt it
didn't fit with the general theme of this mud, it would most likely
have been removed long since.
-----------------
poster: Bluemoon
subject: >>>>>distant songs
date: Fri Apr 18 19:44:50 2003
Yes I know this isnt AD&D, but I hate to break it to you, things for
this mud have been borrowed from other things, its not all 100%
original.
As in response to the general theme of the mud, is there one?
Things have become so weird lately, I mean even look at the topend
eq, how many articles of female clothing are top end now? Doesnt
fit much of a general theme, comparing a Red strappy dress to a
breastplate of tiamat and the like.
Prolly just a pesonal pet peeve of mine
Im not implying this is AD&D either, it was merely a possible way of
explaining the dprots, because no one has really given an
explanation why it works
-----------------
poster: Switchblade
subject: >>>>>>distant songs
date: Fri Apr 18 19:47:23 2003
You want an explanation? its magic.. bards have magic..
or, since songs like kreativ are about gods, one could say those are almost
like a prayer to those gods, mitra, secs..
dunno about sear, arapsidosis.. maybe those are more magic
but uhhh, yeah, i think its a cool feature... so hurrah for distant singing!
-----------------
poster: Goroharahad
subject: >>>>>>>distant songs
date: Fri Apr 18 20:09:10 2003
On Fri Apr 18 19:47:23 2003 Switchblade wrote post #30:
> You want an explanation? its magic.. bards have magic..
> or, since songs like kreativ are about gods, one could say those are almost
> like a prayer to those gods, mitra, secs..
> dunno about sear, arapsidosis.. maybe those are more magic
> but uhhh, yeah, i think its a cool feature... so hurrah for distant
singing!
Well first bards are not so much magic users. All the songs are
skills, although they consume some eps.
About cool features, yeah sure that's cool. Like someone mentioned
distant insta kill would be cool too.
And this is not just an AD&D thing. Having bards dboost is just a
IoM feature. Not that I care so much anyway, i'm not begging for a
downtune.
-----------------
poster: Tektor
subject: >>>>>>>>distant songs
date: Fri Apr 18 22:08:51 2003
On Fri Apr 18 20:09:10 2003 Goroharahad wrote post #32:
> On Fri Apr 18 19:47:23 2003 Switchblade wrote post #30:
> > You want an explanation? its magic.. bards have magic..
> > or, since songs like kreativ are about gods, one could say those are
almost
> > like a prayer to those gods, mitra, secs..
> > dunno about sear, arapsidosis.. maybe those are more magic
> > but uhhh, yeah, i think its a cool feature... so hurrah for distant
> singing!
> Well first bards are not so much magic users. All the songs are
> skills, although they consume some eps.
> About cool features, yeah sure that's cool. Like someone mentioned
> distant insta kill would be cool too.
> And this is not just an AD&D thing. Having bards dboost is just a
> IoM feature. Not that I care so much anyway, i'm not begging for a
> downtune.
Just because its a skill and uses eps doesn't mean that it is not
magical. You don't have to use magic to be magical. Like i stated
before, they sing grand songs and have horns that are magical. I
think its only right that they should be able to sing songs to
others distantly. Ps noone has remembered their magical horns yet.
-----------------
poster: Switchblade
subject: value of bards in xp/eq
date: Sat Apr 19 00:42:45 2003
Something that has always bugged me, and probably some others too.
Say you have an XP party..
1 tank
1 abj
1 healer
4 2gig evokers
ok... now you have a choice of adding a bard or another evoker
An additional evoker would increase the damage done per minute by
the party by X amount.
A bard would prot the hell out of the party... is it possible, or
more important, is it likely that his prots would increase the
damage done by the party as much as another evoker? more?
if no, would the answer change with the more evokers you have
initially? if you had 2 evokers, maybe definitely take an evoker?
but if you have 5 evokers, definitely take a bard?
I realize its really vague, but I am really curious what people
think about the bards usefulness to an xp party..
Also, I could pose the same question about an EQ party. Is the
effect of adding a bard greater than adding another blaster? if
not, why not? I think at some point having a bard should be a good
thing.. I've always suspected it is, because otherwise the guild
makes no sense.... but i don't see it happening, and i want to
know why? someone please enlighten me... I've always thought of
going bard but felt that they were unappreciated generally, and
wondering if its the fault of the guild or the players
attitudes/ignorance..
I should also specify that when i say bard I mean maxxed out
omicron, and same goes for other guilds in this example..
-switcharoo
-----------------
poster: Zyz
subject: >value of bards in xp/eq
date: Sat Apr 19 03:42:33 2003
Great question, Switcharoo, especially in light of the recent stat tune.
Bard helps with a few important thresholds, such as:
Do the tank and/or party members have enough hps to survive in the party?
If no, and bard can add enough so they do, bard is useful.
Do the casters have enough spr to maintain blasting?
If no, bard can add a lot of spr, so bard is useful.
Then we have to consider the overall effects per player of the bard:
Do we think the bard stat additions make much of a difference?
In exp this is kinda easy to check - if the party share rate is
higher per person with a bard, the bard is useful.
In eq it's a bit more difficult aside from the thresholds listed
above. In a large eq party, the bard is giving out a ton of stats,
hps, and spr. But if the tank can tank it, the other players aren't
dying in large amounts, and the casters aren't tapping anyway, the
only thing the bard really adds (aside from a jovial personality
perhaps), is blasting damage from stat adds.
Well, what is 100 int per evoker worth? Since we know spr and stats
are intended to be fairly even, we can back out a bit of the stat
utility by looking at the cost effect of 100 int. I don't think I'll
share my math on that one in this forum, but it leads to some fairly
simple maths to determine if a bard is useful to a certain party.
If it increases effectiveness at 10% per evoker, and there are 5
evokers, the bard is worth half of another evoker. If it increases
20% per evoker, with 5 evokers a bard is worth another evoker.
If there are only 4 evokers, the bard would have to increase
effectiveness by 25% per evoker to be worth as much as another
evoker. And so on and so forth. My personal opinion is that bards
now increase effectiveness by well under 10% per high level evoker,
so if none of the thresholds are met (meaning it is a high level
party), it'd be pretty impossible for a bard to be worth more than
another evoker to the party.
I'd love for bards to be more useful, so please someone come up with
better maths for them -Zyz
-----------------
poster: Kjara
subject: Bard vs voker
date: Sun Apr 20 09:26:03 2003
The main problem, is that the point at which the bard would becomes
useful, seems to beyond the usefulness of any new members in a exp
party, as you can only kill things so fast, Personally my best rates
have come from 5-6 man parties. There are only a few areas in the
mud that can support parties larger then 6 2 gig players, and many
of these areas have their dangers/drawbacks. Yes, with 4 evokers, a
bard might help the rate more then another evoker, but if either
would hurt the rate, why
would the party bother? Eq is slightly differnt, but again some of
the best eq parties have involved only 3 evokers, 2 healers, 1 abj,
1 witch, 1 tank. With a streamlined party yes you kill sightly
slower, but there are less people to divy the loot with at the end.
There is also less friction between members, and less chance of time
conflicts, idlers, ect. The problem seems almost to be that the mud
does not support parties that would best use a bard.
-----------------
poster: Bluemoon
subject: >Bard vs voker
date: Thu Apr 24 08:41:13 2003
Before the tune, the bards?
They were helphyre and shiranai
So if you really want to know how they were treated, ask them :)