-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: Me
date: Sun Apr  1 00:16:55 2001

Hey wanted to say sorry to the party I was in earlier
I lost power for a few hours - some jackass ran into a pole and
knocked us out


Jaws

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: abuse and cheating
date: Sun Apr  1 19:41:34 2001

  I'm concerned with how some issues regarding what is considered to
be cheating or abuse, especially with regard to player capabilities
along skills/spells.
  The issue isn't really new.  When vulns were initially given to
abjurers and were "stackable" a similiar situation arose.  What
truly defines cheating/abuse of the powers given to you by the mud? 
I know we are given the lofty notion "if it seems too good, it
probably is,"  but this is a very subjective phrase.
  As players, we are unable to see the code used for our actions,
incapable of noticing typos or predicting what the coder of the
material truly "intended" when they put that piece into the mud. 
Now, that's an important word here, intent.
  Was it intended for woodsman campfires to be able to be fueled up
so much?  From the ensuing posts in news, we can now presume the
answer is no.  A week ago, when I partied with Erec for a few hours,
I noticed that the fires gave a rather large flicker rate (100-130).
 My initial thought was, wow isn't this a little out of tune, but I
was aware that woodsman campfires are supposed to be good ... what
else is that guild good for (jk).  Was the flicker rate imbalancing?
 Not really.  Was it a bug?  I had no idea it wasn't the actual
intended effect of the coder.
  Another example was shown by the spell Hand of Balance.  Hasn't
this same spell been in use on the mud for 4 or 5 years with little
(if any) alteration?  Yet now an issue comes up with it being too
powerful.  Was the spell too powerful?  Maybe, but not really
imbalancing as I saw the situation.  How is the player to know about
the intention of the spell in that case?
  I saw an interesting twist with the advent of HOBs demise.  Was it
illegal for players to reincarnate down levels to train that spell,
or any spell for that matter?  What if the player had never gone
over level 4 and simply spent everything they ever earned on HOB so
they could use it effectively?  Is it wrong to reinc down levels so
you get newbie bonuses?  Why not make HOBs sp cost along a ratio
like HABO so that the max damage is capped at how many sps (level 4
gets almost none) can spend.
  Ultimately, as players we look for an edge, something that we've
observed as an effect or product that allows us to surpass our peers
(or even elders).  Maybe in some ways, this clouds our vision or
what is right and appropriate for skills/spells, but it's a very
subjectively based argument.  Alot of us (including myself) do try
and play fairly.  Maybe at times we are faced with an issue where we
have to make a decision whether or not something is "too good", but
for the most part it's a hard decision for either side.
  I'd like to see us work more as a team, both players and wizzes,
rather than enemies.  I'd like the players to be allowed to play,
maybe with a little lenience by the wizzes, on what the players
truly do know and can make viable judgements on coding issues since
we are not privy nearly as much information as the wizzes.

- Arkangyle

-----------------

poster: Dram
subject: >abuse and cheating
date: Sun Apr  1 20:23:09 2001

I totally agree with you Arkangyle, it would be asking too much of
players to decide if something is a bug or out of tune or what. But
i think its safe to say, if you think a spell or skill seems to be
too good to be true, then ask Sigwald or myself. Either of us can
look at the code and work with the code quite often. The woodsman
campfire is only a beta level skill, it should give you thoughts of
out of tune if its doing what people have been saying.

Dram

-----------------

poster: Chewba
subject: gay
date: Mon Apr  2 02:37:29 2001

Look, I remember reading this message when I first started playing
this MUD. It was about Lu, iirc, coming clean about being a man.
He/she had previously been pretending He/She was a girl. I read the
mail and Lu was almost embarased that he/she had been role changing
and was never gonn play rd again. Then, iirc, there was a bundle of
spams saying it doesn't matter Lu (if it is Lu i onstley can't be
sure of the name) what you are you are only ROLEPLAYING,COME BACK WE
MISS YOU!. I thought that was
rather touching especially as some poeple got a bit pissed about being fooled
But, I'll tell you what really gets my goat in this mud is the homophobia!
for example tagged on to a sales message was X is Gay. This really
saddens me i mean why do you play any sort of RPG? Is it cos you
want to tap the keyboard thousands of times a night? Or is it cos u
hate gay people? Or when i play next year is it gonna be blacks,
whites, witches, goths, jews or disabled? just a little pissed &
prolly won't come out. XXX Chewba 

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >gay
date: Mon Apr  2 03:00:08 2001

On Mon Apr  2 02:37:29 2001 Chewba wrote post #4:
> Look, I remember reading this message when I first started playing
> this MUD. It was about Lu, iirc, coming clean about being a man.
> He/she had previously been pretending He/She was a girl. I read the
> mail and Lu was almost embarased that he/she had been role changing
> and was never gonn play rd again. Then, iirc, there was a bundle of
> spams saying it doesn't matter Lu (if it is Lu i onstley can't be
> sure of the name) what you are you are only ROLEPLAYING,COME BACK WE
> MISS YOU!. I thought that was
> rather touching especially as some poeple got a bit pissed about being
fooled
> But, I'll tell you what really gets my goat in this mud is the homophobia!
> for example tagged on to a sales message was X is Gay. This really
> saddens me i mean why do you play any sort of RPG? Is it cos you
> want to tap the keyboard thousands of times a night? Or is it cos u
> hate gay people? Or when i play next year is it gonna be blacks,
> whites, witches, goths, jews or disabled? just a little pissed &
> prolly won't come out. XXX Chewba 
lu is also news banned, and has been since i 
saw that this morning.  I have grown tired of it as well.

-----------------

poster: Mikul
subject: >abuse and cheating
date: Mon Apr  2 03:45:59 2001

I think what's got on sigwald's goat, is that erec should of known
what the campire should of done, and miss-used it.

The general thing to consider if that if you are doing XP alot
quicker/better than of someone of comparable guild.


Mikul.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >abuse and cheating
date: Mon Apr  2 04:34:16 2001

>   Ultimately, as players we look for an edge, something that we've
> observed as an effect or product that allows us to surpass our peers
> (or even elders).  Maybe in some ways, this clouds our vision or
> what is right and appropriate for skills/spells, but it's a very
> subjectively based argument.  Alot of us (including myself) do try
> and play fairly.  Maybe at times we are faced with an issue where we
> have to make a decision whether or not something is "too good", but
> for the most part it's a hard decision for either side.
>   I'd like to see us work more as a team, both players and wizzes,
> rather than enemies.  I'd like the players to be allowed to play,
> maybe with a little lenience by the wizzes, on what the players
> truly do know and can make viable judgements on coding issues since
> we are not privy nearly as much information as the wizzes.
> 
> - Arkangyle

This is a good post.  We do tend to jump to the side that X
should of been painfully obvious that it wasnt the intended 
effect. 

Players also need to be a bit aware of what is going on
as well.  Granted it is sometimes hard to tell what is intended,
and what is soem new great feature you found, but a quick
mail to 'admin' or a bug post will get a response on the
matter.

Actually the bug post is probably better, it will be saved in
news and the entire mud can see it then as well after its
resolved, or fixed.

--zif
**

-----------------

poster: Foxpaws
subject: Gay
date: Mon Apr  2 07:18:45 2001

I've experiened as well some level of homophobia on this mud, but
to tell it truthfully, most of what I see here is cynisism and
sarcasm, not true bigotry.  Being gay, I've been in the position
more than once of being harrassed by player x or player y who
hasn't come to terms with the fact that I'm not going to stay
in the closet on their behalf.  The other thing I noticed is that
when someone who was truly bigotted expressed their opinions, they
were very quickly informed that it was NOT apropriate.  Based
on many years of mudding and mucking, the only thing that lags
on this mud is actual jurisdiction about the issue, which is
pretty much redundant with the overwhelming opinion that nothing
here is sacred.  :3

By the way, thank you to those that assisted during a recent problem
with homophobia, you know who you are.

   -Foxy

-----------------

poster: Nyx
subject: >Gay
date: Mon Apr  2 07:34:47 2001

On Mon Apr  2 07:18:45 2001 Foxpaws wrote post #8:
> I've experiened as well some level of homophobia on this mud, but
> to tell it truthfully, most of what I see here is cynisism and
> sarcasm, not true bigotry.  Being gay, I've been in the position
> more than once of being harrassed by player x or player y who
> hasn't come to terms with the fact that I'm not going to stay
> in the closet on their behalf.  The other thing I noticed is that
> when someone who was truly bigotted expressed their opinions, they
> were very quickly informed that it was NOT apropriate.  Based
> on many years of mudding and mucking, the only thing that lags
> on this mud is actual jurisdiction about the issue, which is
> pretty much redundant with the overwhelming opinion that nothing
> here is sacred.  :3
> 
> By the way, thank you to those that assisted during a recent problem
> with homophobia, you know who you are.
> 
>    -Foxy
FYI, certain players have been saying that about each other as long
as I can remember. And they are friends. They do it to be idiots.
And they do it well. Most of what I see said is in the form of a
jest. And though many of you will prolly bitch, I see no point in
stopping 90% of it. Why? Because none of it is harming anyone. If
you think it is truely being said in a rude and evil way, leaving
the mud means nothing unless you mail admin and let them know who
and why. 
So I am sorry if that sounds bad, but I am kinda tired of so many
getting pissed because of something most of the time not directed at
them. It would be like me getting mad everytime a stereotype about
women was said, or about scots, or irish. Sometimes it is not meant
to hurt.
So basically my point is this, learn to tell the difference between
something directed at you/about you that is meant to hurt and things
that are childish idiociy.
Nyx, who knows she wil catch some form of flack for that.

-----------------

poster: Mixer
subject: >abuse and cheating
date: Mon Apr  2 09:31:18 2001

I personally think that if you had seen a kind of flicker like 130
it shoulkd be pretty obvious that its not meant to be that high. 
Thats only a personal opinion and as a wiz I have people ask me all
the time, is this how its meant to be... thats all it takes.

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>abuse and cheating
date: Mon Apr  2 11:34:18 2001

On Mon Apr  2 09:31:18 2001 Mixer wrote post #10:
> I personally think that if you had seen a kind of flicker like 130
> it shoulkd be pretty obvious that its not meant to be that high. 
> Thats only a personal opinion and as a wiz I have people ask me all
> the time, is this how its meant to be... thats all it takes.
There are players who can still get a 150 flicker fire on the 
1 piece used to make it.  I've begun using the fires 
as one of the supporting skills to make healing poultices and can 
usually make ~8 poultices on a single fire with maybe 4 
failures(making the poultice is a 14 round ordeal if you count the 
magical growth part of it).  My current fires 
have 23 point flickers and last a very long time.

Before the change, on my first half day as a woodsman, I'd been making big 
fires and no poultices to save time and get a few flickers of faster healing 
all at once to jump back into a fight(the fires died in a minute or so).

I figured the balance was having a 23 flicker fire that lasts near 
10 minutes while I make piles of healing poultices, and a 
150 flicker fire that lasted 60 seconds while I make a 
poultice.

Before and after the change to fire flickers, players could add all the 
wood they felt like(I burned 25 pieces for fun just today, 
the fire died 3 flickers later and heal no extraper the change 
to flicker).  At the moment it might be fair 
courtesy to set a catch to bar a player from addingwood to a fire at all
(since it's not intended to help now), and later if it's decided 
a 90% reduction in the flicker potential was a bit much, the catch could 
be raised from allowing 0 pieces added to 1 or 2 or 3 pieces 
added to a fire.
At the least, the wood added could increase the duration of a fire(rather 
than shorten the duration of a fire).

These only my cheesehead opinions.  My campfire skill's only ever 
been 60-65%, but that was the same skill that had the 
power to draw attention and get it tuned to hell. ;>

And to the cheesehad woodsmen who've bonked me for abusing a fire
and getting it tuned.. :P
You all got to 'abuse' it for months and I'm sure you did more 
than idle in cs with the power. 

-pedron ultraspam

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: >gay
date: Mon Apr  2 12:30:29 2001

On Mon Apr  2 02:37:29 2001 Chewba wrote post #4:
> Look, I remember reading this message when I first started playing
> this MUD. It was about Lu, iirc, coming clean about being a man.
> He/she had previously been pretending He/She was a girl. I read the
> mail and Lu was almost embarased that he/she had been role changing
> and was never gonn play rd again. Then, iirc, there was a bundle of
> spams saying it doesn't matter Lu (if it is Lu i onstley can't be
> sure of the name) what you are you are only ROLEPLAYING,COME BACK WE
> MISS YOU!. I thought that was
> rather touching especially as some poeple got a bit pissed about being
fooled
> But, I'll tell you what really gets my goat in this mud is the homophobia!
> for example tagged on to a sales message was X is Gay. This really
> saddens me i mean why do you play any sort of RPG? Is it cos you
> want to tap the keyboard thousands of times a night? Or is it cos u
> hate gay people? Or when i play next year is it gonna be blacks,
> whites, witches, goths, jews or disabled? just a little pissed &
> prolly won't come out. XXX Chewba 

Take it in stride. No doubt there are a few homophobic people here,
as there will always be in any situation involving a number of
humans. What you are probably referring to, is wither Quillz or Baer
calling each other gay. they do it all the time. Its called 'fun'.
So, take it in stride.

As for whether you truly are gay or not gay, Probably no-one really
gives a rats ass so if you arent spammy about it, make your point
known and be done with it =)

- Tranquil Spamaniac


-----------------

poster: Killaaz
subject: Eq
date: Mon Apr  2 13:14:18 2001

Just a few words on the new changes. It's kinda fun but dunno if it
is that good.
Now mobs in the range 1.5-2.5 can be easy. Mobs that didnt hit soo
hard earlier is much easier etc.
Thing is in the last few days we havnt killed anything that hits
hard, like sear,smoke demon etc.
We tried nosferatu,hard hitter, and got partywipe almost instantly:P
Heard that marvin raised resists some but dunno if he raised hits
aswell. I would like to see a slight raise in resists and a sligth
lower on the hits. Will talk to the other ppls i use to do eq in and
try to kill a mob we know hits hard and then i will post a better
post when i have more facts.
My guess is that sear and smoke demon gonna be undoable with this
change. He use to kill the tank instantly on entry kinda often soo i
imagin it will happen almost all the time now, even with share etc.
Nuff from me
//Killaaz

-----------------

poster: Erec
subject: >>abuse and cheating
date: Mon Apr  2 17:30:15 2001

On Mon Apr  2 03:45:59 2001 Mikul wrote post #6:
> I think what's got on sigwald's goat, is that erec should of known
> what the campire should of done, and miss-used it.


Well, last time I was a woodsman, when you added wood to a fire, I 
thought it only made the fire last longer.  I therefore assumed it
was an active change to this new mode.


I did consider it ill-conceived, and was going to talk to Siggy 
about it when he got back from vacation, but in the mean time, there
weren't all that many rooms in which it was useful in a party (OK, 
there was one in particular, but after trying that for one boot, it

was just too boring anyway, even if I had thought it was a bug), and
soloing, the time gathering extra wood was about the same as the 
time making the extra poultices I'd have otherwise needed, so it 
didn't seem all that much of a problem soloing.


> The general thing to consider if that if you are doing XP alot
> quicker/better than of someone of comparable guild.


If any wizards are going to consider such a standard valid, it would
be very helpful for players to have a published list of "acceptable"
exp rates at various worths.

> Mikul.

			-Erec


-----------------

poster: Trax
subject: Gay
date: Mon Apr  2 20:50:13 2001

I don't post to news much, but recent posts jumped out at me and I
feel a need to put in my two cents.  The subject line of the
discussion is "Gay" and I want to appluad those who discussed what I
feel to be an important issue in a most mature way.

First off I'd like to say KUDOS to Chewba for bringing up an issuse
that I feel needs to be addressed.  I agree with his/her sentiment
entirely.  I'd like to respectfully disagree with Nyx's opinion...as
I gathered..."bigoted statements made in a public forum without
directing it at anyone in particular should be taken in jest and
should not be considered malicious or harmful".  Now let's think
about it a moment and be truly honest with ourselves here.  What is
the true 
purpose of slinging out bigoted statements, cough cough...in jest? 
Yeah, yeah...buddies are just playfully insulting each other and
bigoted statements rock for shock value, but we're forgetting
something here...in a public forum...people are being hurt and
offended indirectly. You can't insult a group of people and then
take it back by saying "it wasn't directed at you and besides I was
only kidding" the statement has been made, the damage has been done.
Heh, if I didn't know 
better I'd think the underlying purpose is to utilize a loophole (it
wasn't directed at anyone) to perpetuate the bigoted way of thinking
;)  The bigoted way of thinking is for the weak and does nothing but
cheapen yourself by showing everyone that you can't handle our
naturally diverse world. Yeah...you have every right to believe in
bigoted sentiments, but for your sake...do you really want to? 

We also need to remember that we have kids playing here on RD and
these kids are being desensitized to bigotry and these kids will
carry this out to real life.  No I'm not blaming RD for bigotry, nor
am I saying that curtailing bigotry here will stop bigotry
everywhere...but you gotta start somewhere...and that somewhere is
within yourselves :)  If you feel the need to hurl insults at a
buddy in jest...how about being original by directing the insult
without referring to 
another individual or group of individuals?  If you aren't creative
enough to do that...then maybe you should quit while you're
ahead...don't make a fool of yourself in public...use tells ;)


RD is supposed to be a fun game for everyone...it shouldn't be a
place where some people find themselves indirectly offended.  They
shouldn't have to "grin and bear it knowing that it wasn't directed
at them".  Gay people shouldn't have to bear with it, African
Americans shouldn't have to bear with it, and so on.  I am deaf,
myself, and I have been fortunate, thus far, that I didn't
have to bear with any public offending statements regarding
deafness.  However, if statements of this nature are ever made...you
can bank on it that I will be offended...deafness is a condition
that I struggled with since birth...it isn't a topic of humor for
the public forum.  You're probably thinking..."aww...you gotta take
things with a grain of salt"...my question is...why should I?  Why
should anyone?


Trax

-----------------

poster: Javier
subject: >Gay
date: Mon Apr  2 20:54:44 2001

I'd like to point out the truth in this...
Someone saying "You're gay" is ok...but if they said "You nigger"
people would be on their ass like there was no tommorow...
Javi

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: my problem
date: Mon Apr  2 20:56:10 2001

seems i've casued quite an upheavel here about rd and it's bigots. 
Personlaly i didnt think calling trigon 'gay' in a news post was
harmful at all, just playful fun that we laughed at when i did it.  
however i have seen that a few people have been indirectly hurt or
offended buy it.  I'd like to say that wasn't my intent, and would
like to apologize to the 2 people i know of who were offended and
told me so.

-lu

-----------------

poster: Chemosh
subject: nav type spells
date: Mon Apr  2 21:10:36 2001

hmm a while back the spell firewalk was removed from the elemental
guild with the reason that only navigators should be allowed to be
able to zip between islands. Now i am sure alot has happened since
then (ie thieves tunnels and lodestones) but it seems alot of guilds
now also have their own nav type spells.. admittedly at a higher
level than fire mage but still. i think navigator is a nice guild
(master navs ruled once upon a time too) but with most guilds having
their own transport spells the only funky reason for navs is
lodestones.

i am not asking to remove the transport spells just maybe make
(master) navigators a bit nicer so that who guild navigator shows a
few players


that is all

tommy the little vampyr


-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: IE users
date: Mon Apr  2 22:04:22 2001


http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms01-020.asp

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: re: gay/bigotry etc
date: Mon Apr  2 22:37:28 2001

Get over it.  The mud can and will be obnoxious.  Believe me we have
something to offend almost anyone.  We have emotes here about
pedophilia and necrophilia.We have jokes about swedes about fins
about aussies and americans.  We have jokes about religion.
Red Dragon is not politically correct.  And if you ask me it would
be a fair sight boring.  I mean casting magic would be offensive to
people who call themselves christians.  So no magic.  Killing
people, is almost universally looked down upon.  Heck, ya can't even
shoot a fluffy little bunny without hacking off PETA.  
You say the world is bad because people use the word gay in a
derisive way,  I say the world is bad because people think I should
live in a world that is safeand inoffensive.  

Magneto 'The only sin these days is intolerance'

  None of what I spout has anything to do with the
views of Darkstaff, Zifnab and RedDragon or any of its wizards other
than myself

-----------------

poster: Alisha
subject: Homosexuality and Bigotry
date: Mon Apr  2 23:27:59 2001

I don't know.. I mean, honestly, I haven't actually seen much of the
'bigotry' on Red Dragon. I just see people joking with each other.
That's all.

To them, it's a joke. That's just how things work. Granted, it's not
necessarily something that should be made into a joke, but it is,
and that's a very difficult thing to change.

When I brought Insid onto the MUD, no one really seemed to have a
problem with him. He did, though, get on some peoples' nerves when
he took a liking to a few of my swedes. But Insid is a seperate
case.

Anyways, all my ramblings come out to the fact that I personally
don't believe this is really that big of an issue on Red Dragon.
It's all in fun, and a good deal of the mud carries on normally.

My $0.000002 cents

-- Lishie

-----------------

poster: Chewba
subject: my final word
date: Tue Apr  3 00:11:25 2001

Hmm just want to say joking between friends and/or obscene is fine.
Thanks for the feed back but excessive spamming is no fun. I like
playing RD and its nice to see that most people hav a brain on this
mud. 
won't hear from me for a while......... Chewba xxx **

-----------------

poster: Adjudicator
subject: >re: gay/bigotry etc
date: Tue Apr  3 00:16:46 2001

Hmm, don't like how people use words on this mud?  I have a failsafe
way in which you will never again have to listen to these
"offending" words.  Siply type "quit" and never log on again.  It's
simple and it's easy.

-----------------

poster: Zyz
subject: other methods
date: Tue Apr  3 00:21:07 2001

I like the 'you are ignored and will never be a part of any party I
am in' approach as well. -Zyz

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >my final word
date: Tue Apr  3 00:59:34 2001

On Tue Apr  3 00:11:25 2001 Chewba wrote post #22:
> Hmm just want to say joking between friends and/or obscene is fine.
> Thanks for the feed back but excessive spamming is no fun. I like
> playing RD and its nice to see that most people hav a brain on this
> mud. 
> won't hear from me for a while......... Chewba xxx **
Chewba is spam.

-pedron runs for the hills :)

-----------------

poster: Lizzie
subject: gay
date: Tue Apr  3 01:24:35 2001

okay, i'm sure everyone expected this one... so here goes
yes, i see a lot of jokes made about homosexuality... but ya know what?
my friends call me queer.  they call me a slut.  they call me a fag,
and i laugh
because they don't mean to hurt my feelings.   now i will be the first to say
that rd has a fair amount of people on it who don't think before they talk
and some things they say are a little offensive... but i have seen only a few 
examples wherein i thought the person talking meant to hurt someone.  now, 
i heard something that i found very offensive on the dragon chan, and i 
couldn't tell if it was a joke.  i very much angered me because the person
was not warned, or even admonished for his actions.  i can only assume that i 
either missed the statement that would have made the joke funny, or
the wizzes 
weren't around to see it.  as much as i have my troubles with various wizzes, 
i do believe in their fairness to all players.  if someone steps out
of line, i have
seen them called down for their actions, and i praise them for such.  
if you have a problem with something someone has said specifically,
say so after hearing 
them say it.  you would be suprized how many times they will
apologize.  if they seem
to do it repeatedly, report it to a wiz, or on a channel to get the
proper attention.
as far as posts, they do no good.  this is not going to stop bob
from calling me a fag
to hurt my feelings.  its only going to make sure that someone knows
that i saw it. 

my two sense :p
lizzie

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >Gay
date: Tue Apr  3 01:38:07 2001

*sigh* One new post down on the gay thread, probably 12 more to go,
and I don't know if I should bother to read them.
We can get into semantics all day long about bigotry and what's
acceptable and what's not. We can elimate half the emotes on the mud
and still not please everybody once you limit the discussion of one
topic over another (to which some topics ARE a bit taboo around
here).

Can this die peacefully? If you have a problem with something
somebody is saying, you can either take it up with a wiz, or have it
out like Jordali and myself did recently (not something I
recommend).

Now, for one, Trax's comments about "desensitizing"... well, first
off, this mud isn't suited for kids: we have alot of adult
conversations and topics, and exposing your kinds to a subject is
one thing, exposing them to the way we handle things around here...
well, that's just wrong :)

-WC

-----------------

poster: Sigwald
subject: >>abuse and cheating
date: Tue Apr  3 13:54:34 2001

Hmm I must admit you have a good point, but well I still would feel
a lot better if players just came out and say: ok we noticed this
particular thing and it seems a bit weird. Was it really intended
to be like that ?
That would be nice to have... (and it actually what happened with
one player reporting it, but I would have expected to get it sooner).
As for HOB, I was aware there was some kind of a problem but I didnt
estimate it was a huge one. It has been changed since I was probably
wrong and another admin (Marvin I think) made it work another way.

Sigwald

-----------------

poster: Sigwald
subject: >>>abuse and cheating
date: Tue Apr  3 14:04:21 2001

About this fire thing, the only aim of refueling was to make a
fire last longer and not make it look like the whole taiga was
burning. And yes, refueling it reduces the max timelife of the
fire so if you refuel it right after starting it its going to be
shorter. The whole idea was to avoid that someone makes a permanent
campfire by refueling it 20 times right after starting it.
It might not seem ultra logical (though, with more wood it could
still burn faster with bigger flames...), but it had a very valid
reason.
I guess I'll have to make it refuelable only if the fire is about
to die, this way I dont get all these problems :P

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: >re: gay/bigotry etc
date: Tue Apr  3 16:22:08 2001

On Mon Apr  2 22:37:28 2001 Magneto wrote post #20:
> Get over it.  The mud can and will be obnoxious.  Believe me we have
> something to offend almost anyone.  We have emotes here about
> pedophilia and necrophilia.We have jokes about swedes about fins
> about aussies and americans.  We have jokes about religion.
> Red Dragon is not politically correct.  And if you ask me it would
> be a fair sight boring.  I mean casting magic would be offensive to
> people who call themselves christians.  So no magic.  Killing
> people, is almost universally looked down upon.  Heck, ya can't even
> shoot a fluffy little bunny without hacking off PETA.  
> You say the world is bad because people use the word gay in a
> derisive way,  I say the world is bad because people think I should
> live in a world that is safeand inoffensive.  
> 
> Magneto 'The only sin these days is intolerance'
> 
>   None of what I spout has anything to do with the
> views of Darkstaff, Zifnab and RedDragon or any of its wizards other
> than myself

We don't kill people, we kill monsters :-)

Khosan

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>re: gay/bigotry etc
date: Tue Apr  3 18:09:07 2001

> We don't kill people, we kill monsters :-)
> 
> Khosan

Oh there are plenty of places with men and women to kill.  Never
mind all the other senient life forms/humanoids
Pretty much compare a midbie to any serial killer in history and I
am sure they would be record breakers

Magsy

-----------------

poster: Nyx
subject: >re: gay/bigotry etc
date: Tue Apr  3 23:40:29 2001

On Mon Apr  2 22:37:28 2001 Magneto wrote post #20:
> Get over it.  The mud can and will be obnoxious.  Believe me we have
> something to offend almost anyone.  We have emotes here about
> pedophilia and necrophilia.We have jokes about swedes about fins
> about aussies and americans.  We have jokes about religion.
> Red Dragon is not politically correct.  And if you ask me it would
> be a fair sight boring.  I mean casting magic would be offensive to
> people who call themselves christians.  So no magic.  Killing
> people, is almost universally looked down upon.  Heck, ya can't even
> shoot a fluffy little bunny without hacking off PETA.  
> You say the world is bad because people use the word gay in a
> derisive way,  I say the world is bad because people think I should
> live in a world that is safeand inoffensive.  
> 
> Magneto 'The only sin these days is intolerance'
> 
>   None of what I spout has anything to do with the
> views of Darkstaff, Zifnab and RedDragon or any of its wizards other
> than myself
Along with this I would also like to point out that for a much
longer amount of time gay meant happy. So as far as I am concerned,
you're all gay.
Nyx, the blantly gay bitch.

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>re: gay/bigotry etc
date: Tue Apr  3 23:50:34 2001

> Along with this I would also like to point out that for a much
> longer amount of time gay meant happy. So as far as I am concerned,
> you're all gay.
> Nyx, the blantly gay bitch.
ACK i am not gay!  I am completely insulted.  Ask any of my friends, I am
crabby!
Mags

-----------------

poster: Nyx
subject: >>>re: gay/bigotry etc
date: Tue Apr  3 23:51:34 2001

On Tue Apr  3 23:50:34 2001 Magneto wrote post #35:
> > Along with this I would also like to point out that for a much
> > longer amount of time gay meant happy. So as far as I am concerned,
> > you're all gay.
> > Nyx, the blantly gay bitch.
> ACK i am not gay!  I am completely insulted.  Ask any of my friends, I am
> crabby!
> Mags
Okay, some of you are not gay. Your queer. WHICH, by the way, meant
goofy, eerie, or strange. LONG before it meant homosexual.
Nyx who is queer and gay

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>>>re: gay/bigotry etc
date: Wed Apr  4 00:10:22 2001

On Tue Apr  3 23:51:34 2001 Nyx wrote post #36:
> On Tue Apr  3 23:50:34 2001 Magneto wrote post #35:
> > > Along with this I would also like to point out that for a much
> > > longer amount of time gay meant happy. So as far as I am concerned,
> > > you're all gay.
> > > Nyx, the blantly gay bitch.
> > ACK i am not gay!  I am completely insulted.  Ask any of my friends, I am
> > crabby!
> > Mags
> Okay, some of you are not gay. Your queer. WHICH, by the way, meant
> goofy, eerie, or strange. LONG before it meant homosexual.
> Nyx who is queer and gay
I bet you are a bundle of sticks too!

-----------------

poster: Nyx
subject: My take on the News
date: Wed Apr  4 00:20:05 2001

In lew of recent news postings, I have something to say.

First off, wizards are not your babysitters. We have rules and we
expect you to follow them. We also expect most of you not to be
immature and childish. You made the choice to play here. If someone
says something on a channel you feel is offensive/rud
/hurtful/bigoted say something privately to that person, or
publicly. If after asking they continue, mail or tell an admin. Do
not expect us to be babysitting every channel. It's not our jobs.
You can check wiz_rules if you do not believe me. Secondly, yes, my
opinion is say whatever you want within the rules. I will not care
unless a) you blatantly break a rule b) one or more players asks me
to stop you as it is hurtful and they would appreciate stopped or c)
I find it offensive. In most cases I will just tell you to move it
to obscene and in accordance to the rules, any player may turn said
channel off if they find it offensive. As for children who play this
mud, where are their parents? I do remember signing up to help rear
someone's young when I began playing here. So I do not care if you
are 6 or 16, it is not my job to pwotect your wittle ears. And I do
not wish to hear, "Some parents work alot" or the equivalent. My
mother busted her ass working and she still had time to make sure I
was not doing I shouldn't. So I do not want to hear that excuse. It
is not valid.

Second, the whole gay/bigot crap. That is what I think it is. Crap.
If ever I saw someone saying, "Oh, he's gay" and felt it was
hurtful, I would say something. And if it is said on obscene, unless
someone mentions it as abusive, I will turn a deaf ear. However, I
do agree it is not needed in news posts. I have never seen anyone
use any sort of bigoted hurtful remark that I feel is used in such a
way. This is not "America". We are not politically correct. Period.
So unless you come to me or another wizard and claim harassment or
abuse, I really will pay no attention. However, for the record the
dictionary defines gay as 1 a : happily excited : b : keenly alive
and exuberant : having or inducing high spirits  2 a : bright, lively 
 b : brilliant in color 3 : given to social
pleasures; 
4 a : homosexual  b : of, relating to, or used by homosexuals.
Please notice what is the last and what is the first definition by
the Mirrim-Webster dictionary. And queer is defined as 1 a :
worthless, counterfeit  b : questionable, suspicious 2
a : differing in some odd way from what is usual or normal b (1) :
eccentric, unconventional (2) : mildly insane : touched c : absorbed
or interested to an extreme or unreasonable degree: obsessed d
usually disparaging : homosexual 3 : not quite well. And fag as 1 :
to work hard : toil 2 : to act as a fag especially in an English
public school . Fag is
also a British term for smoke or cigarette. If you feel you are
being called these words out of context and wish to bring up
harassment, mail a wiz.

Third, this is a game. Are you that immature that you take it so
seriously? I did once and god, what a pain in the butt that was. I
suicided, and I got nuked. Because I took this game to heart. IT IS
A GAME. Period. You have a problem with it, leave. Find another GAME
to play. You do not like how wizs/admin deal with things, leave. You
do not like certain people, well leave. Though assholes are a fact
of life. You will have to deal with them. Don't like a certain
player, help ignore or just type 'ignore (assholes name here)'. But
please remember, it is a game. We are not your parents, no player
is. We expect you to at least have some maturity and intelligence,
after all you did figure out how to get here, make a character, and
gain some levels. It has to count for something. 
And with that, I am done.
Nyx, who using the dictionary and accepted definition of the word,
is proud to be queer.

-----------------

poster: Nyx
subject: Follow up
date: Wed Apr  4 00:22:35 2001

I do remember signing up to help rear
someone's young when I began playing here.


Should be:
I do NOT remember signing up to help rear
someone's young when I began playing here.

-----------------

poster: Nick
subject: message
date: Wed Apr  4 03:50:54 2001

does anyone know what the message 'You shine with a bright light
from within' comes from?

-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: stuff
date: Wed Apr  4 11:40:54 2001

Would just like to say that i think it sucks that ppls are tuning
down stuff with out even talking with the coder of the item.
*/Snoop

-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: >stuff
date: Wed Apr  4 11:41:54 2001

On Wed Apr  4 11:40:54 2001 Snoop wrote post #41:
> Would just like to say that i think it sucks that ppls are tuning
> down stuff with out even talking with the coder of the item.
> */Snoop
the titems are dagger of chaos and now from what i've heard golden fang also

-----------------

poster: Sigwald
subject: >>stuff
date: Wed Apr  4 13:04:28 2001

On Wed Apr  4 11:41:54 2001 Snoop wrote post #42:
> On Wed Apr  4 11:40:54 2001 Snoop wrote post #41:
> > Would just like to say that i think it sucks that ppls are tuning
> > down stuff with out even talking with the coder of the item.
> > */Snoop
> the titems are dagger of chaos and now from what i've heard golden fang also
Wizards are informed usually when things are tuned.
There is not really a point to do it with builders though
since they are players and could get too easily involved
with fact that they possess an item or not.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>stuff
date: Wed Apr  4 13:24:06 2001

On Wed Apr  4 11:41:54 2001 Snoop wrote post #42:
> On Wed Apr  4 11:40:54 2001 Snoop wrote post #41:
> > Would just like to say that i think it sucks that ppls are tuning
> > down stuff with out even talking with the coder of the item.
> > */Snoop
> the titems are dagger of chaos and now from what i've heard golden fang also
you should be careful what you listen to. and probably
get the facts before you start ranting...

ls -l /domains/emerald/snoop/swamp_castle/eqs/chaos_dagger
873        Aug 19 14:47:07 2000 chaos_dagger.c*

ls -l /domains/hyboria/snoop/giants/eqs/fang.c

1400       Oct  2 23:01:50 2000 fang.c*

-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: >>>stuff
date: Wed Apr  4 13:29:47 2001

On Wed Apr  4 13:24:06 2001 Zifnab wrote post #44:
> On Wed Apr  4 11:41:54 2001 Snoop wrote post #42:
> > On Wed Apr  4 11:40:54 2001 Snoop wrote post #41:
> > > Would just like to say that i think it sucks that ppls are tuning
> > > down stuff with out even talking with the coder of the item.
> > > */Snoop
> > the titems are dagger of chaos and now from what i've heard golden fang
also
> you should be careful what you listen to. and probably
> get the facts before you start ranting...
> 
> ls -l /domains/emerald/snoop/swamp_castle/eqs/chaos_dagger
> 873        Aug 19 14:47:07 2000 chaos_dagger.c*
> 
> ls -l /domains/hyboria/snoop/giants/eqs/fang.c
> 
> 1400       Oct  2 23:01:50 2000 fang.c*
dont know about the fang, but know for a fact that the dagger was
altered, but that wasa while ago...
*/Snoop

-----------------

poster: Hierokliff
subject: new newsgroup
date: Wed Apr  4 20:05:56 2001

give us spam or flame back so we dont have to see 40-50 news post
about crap that has nothing to do with RD in the general group, or
is it really thats what its for?
//Hierokliff

-----------------

poster: Palenon
subject: >new newsgroup
date: Wed Apr  4 21:22:30 2001

On Wed Apr  4 20:05:56 2001 Hierokliff wrote post #46:
> give us spam or flame back so we dont have to see 40-50 news post
> about crap that has nothing to do with RD in the general group, or
> is it really thats what its for?
> //Hierokliff
I completely agree with Hiero ... we need some sort of flame group
again due to the needless spam being portrayed in decent groups like
general...anyone can unsubscribe to flame...it is difficult to
unsubscribe from general unless all pertenant posts are reposted in
inform as well...
My 2 cents..Pal

-----------------

poster: Chemosh
subject: Census
date: Thu Apr  5 17:57:59 2001

Some things are only realised in Australia....

As some of you may know, in Australia there is a census coming around on
August the 7th.;For those who don't know, a census is where the
government collates general;information about it's residents (number
of people living in your house,;salary, occupation, education,
religion, etc);If there are enough people in Australia, who put down
a religion that isn't;mentioned on the census form it becomes a
fully recognised and legal;religion. It usually takes about 10,000
people to nominate the same;religion.;;It is for this reason that it
has been suggested that anyone who does not;have a dominant religion
to put "Jedi" as their religion.;;Send this on to all your friends
and tell them to put down "Jedi" on their;census form.;;And remember
......If you are a member of the Jedi religion then you are
by;default a 'Jedi Knight'. So, if this has been your dream since
you were 4
years old.... do it cos you love Star Wars. If not.........then just do
because you can.;"May the Force be with you!"



-----------------

poster: Javier
subject: >Census
date: Thu Apr  5 17:59:49 2001

On Thu Apr  5 17:57:59 2001 Chemosh wrote post #48:
> Some things are only realised in Australia....
> 
> As some of you may know, in Australia there is a census coming around on
> August the 7th.;For those who don't know, a census is where the
> government collates general;information about it's residents (number
> of people living in your house,;salary, occupation, education,
> religion, etc);If there are enough people in Australia, who put down
> a religion that isn't;mentioned on the census form it becomes a
> fully recognised and legal;religion. It usually takes about 10,000
> people to nominate the same;religion.;;It is for this reason that it
> has been suggested that anyone who does not;have a dominant religion
> to put "Jedi" as their religion.;;Send this on to all your friends
> and tell them to put down "Jedi" on their;census form.;;And remember
> ......If you are a member of the Jedi religion then you are
> by;default a 'Jedi Knight'. So, if this has been your dream since
> you were 4
> years old.... do it cos you love Star Wars. If not.........then just do
> because you can.;"May the Force be with you!"
> 
> 
Nods, this is especially necessary because right now the dominant
religion in Austraia is "Cross dressing trans sexual aussie ho"
Javi

-----------------

poster: Myrddin
subject: eq
date: Fri Apr  6 06:44:57 2001

I have lost my azarian command belt and from talking with other it
seems that all event eq has been removed.  I personally would have
appreciated an inform post to let us know this, and would still
appreciate some information on their removal.
Myrddin

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >eq
date: Fri Apr  6 06:57:30 2001

On Fri Apr  6 06:44:57 2001 Myrddin wrote post #50:
> I have lost my azarian command belt and from talking with other it
> seems that all event eq has been removed.  I personally would have
> appreciated an inform post to let us know this, and would still
> appreciate some information on their removal.
> Myrddin
#1)  If it _had_ been removed there would of been a post.

#2)  It _HAS NOT_ been removed.

#3)  There was a mishap this afternoon, and only now have I had
     the time to post anything about it.
   I did something this afternoon trying to avoid having to 
   reboot, and cause more problems than the reboot would of.

Mail me what you lost, when I get the time it will be restored.

At least this time when you blame the admin for the problems
you are correct.

-----------------

poster: Sigwald
subject: >>eq
date: Fri Apr  6 10:33:56 2001

On Fri Apr  6 06:57:30 2001 Zifnab wrote post #51:
> On Fri Apr  6 06:44:57 2001 Myrddin wrote post #50:
> > I have lost my azarian command belt and from talking with other it
> > seems that all event eq has been removed.  I personally would have
> > appreciated an inform post to let us know this, and would still
> > appreciate some information on their removal.
> > Myrddin
> #1)  If it _had_ been removed there would of been a post.
> 
> #2)  It _HAS NOT_ been removed.
> 
> #3)  There was a mishap this afternoon, and only now have I had
>      the time to post anything about it.
>    I did something this afternoon trying to avoid having to 
>    reboot, and cause more problems than the reboot would of.
> 
> Mail me what you lost, when I get the time it will be restored.
> 
> At least this time when you blame the admin for the problems
> you are correct.

Heh Zif, you forget we are supposed to be on 24h per day and at
entire disposal of mortals so we can react real fast to the 
smallest of their problem...

-----------------

poster: Energystar
subject: >>>eq
date: Fri Apr  6 16:25:22 2001

On Fri Apr  6 10:33:56 2001 Sigwald wrote post #52:
> On Fri Apr  6 06:57:30 2001 Zifnab wrote post #51:
> > On Fri Apr  6 06:44:57 2001 Myrddin wrote post #50:
> > > I have lost my azarian command belt and from talking with other it
> > > seems that all event eq has been removed.  I personally would have
> > > appreciated an inform post to let us know this, and would still
> > > appreciate some information on their removal.
> > > Myrddin
> > #1)  If it _had_ been removed there would of been a post.
> > 
> > #2)  It _HAS NOT_ been removed.
> > 
> > #3)  There was a mishap this afternoon, and only now have I had
> >      the time to post anything about it.
> >    I did something this afternoon trying to avoid having to 
> >    reboot, and cause more problems than the reboot would of.
> > 
> > Mail me what you lost, when I get the time it will be restored.
> > 
> > At least this time when you blame the admin for the problems
> > you are correct.
> 
> Heh Zif, you forget we are supposed to be on 24h per day and at
> entire disposal of mortals so we can react real fast to the 
> smallest of their problem...
Hmm, is this really what you see in Myrddin's post, Sigwald?  I must
have missread something, then.  I see a post from a player that lost
some eq and got told a few things by players, but wanted to know wat
happened to it, from a reliable source...

Also, if you have time to cause a problem, is it really that much
trouble to take a few seconds to let people know that you did so
with a public post?  Could avoid things like this in the future.
l

-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: >>>>eq
date: Fri Apr  6 16:28:28 2001

On Fri Apr  6 16:25:22 2001 Energystar wrote post #53:
> On Fri Apr  6 10:33:56 2001 Sigwald wrote post #52:
> > On Fri Apr  6 06:57:30 2001 Zifnab wrote post #51:
> > > On Fri Apr  6 06:44:57 2001 Myrddin wrote post #50:
> > > > I have lost my azarian command belt and from talking with other it
> > > > seems that all event eq has been removed.  I personally would have
> > > > appreciated an inform post to let us know this, and would still
> > > > appreciate some information on their removal.
> > > > Myrddin
> > > #1)  If it _had_ been removed there would of been a post.
> > > 
> > > #2)  It _HAS NOT_ been removed.
> > > 
> > > #3)  There was a mishap this afternoon, and only now have I had
> > >      the time to post anything about it.
> > >    I did something this afternoon trying to avoid having to 
> > >    reboot, and cause more problems than the reboot would of.
> > > 
> > > Mail me what you lost, when I get the time it will be restored.
> > > 
> > > At least this time when you blame the admin for the problems
> > > you are correct.
> > 
> > Heh Zif, you forget we are supposed to be on 24h per day and at
> > entire disposal of mortals so we can react real fast to the 
> > smallest of their problem...
> Hmm, is this really what you see in Myrddin's post, Sigwald?  I must
> have missread something, then.  I see a post from a player that lost
> some eq and got told a few things by players, but wanted to know wat
> happened to it, from a reliable source...
> 
> Also, if you have time to cause a problem, is it really that much
> trouble to take a few seconds to let people know that you did so
> with a public post?  Could avoid things like this in the future.
> l

What I see is someone jumping to conclusions and being quite snotty about it.
And since said person has had a recent history of non-constructive
bitching, he loses the benifit of the doubt.

-----------------

poster: Sigwald
subject: >>>>eq
date: Fri Apr  6 17:01:04 2001

On Fri Apr  6 16:25:22 2001 Energystar wrote post #53:
> On Fri Apr  6 10:33:56 2001 Sigwald wrote post #52:
> > On Fri Apr  6 06:57:30 2001 Zifnab wrote post #51:
> > > On Fri Apr  6 06:44:57 2001 Myrddin wrote post #50:
> > > > I have lost my azarian command belt and from talking with other it
> > > > seems that all event eq has been removed.  I personally would have
> > > > appreciated an inform post to let us know this, and would still
> > > > appreciate some information on their removal.
> > > > Myrddin
> > > #1)  If it _had_ been removed there would of been a post.
> > > 
> > > #2)  It _HAS NOT_ been removed.
> > > 
> > > #3)  There was a mishap this afternoon, and only now have I had
> > >      the time to post anything about it.
> > >    I did something this afternoon trying to avoid having to 
> > >    reboot, and cause more problems than the reboot would of.
> > > 
> > > Mail me what you lost, when I get the time it will be restored.
> > > 
> > > At least this time when you blame the admin for the problems
> > > you are correct.
> > 
> > Heh Zif, you forget we are supposed to be on 24h per day and at
> > entire disposal of mortals so we can react real fast to the 
> > smallest of their problem...
> Hmm, is this really what you see in Myrddin's post, Sigwald?  I must
> have missread something, then.  I see a post from a player that lost
> some eq and got told a few things by players, but wanted to know wat
> happened to it, from a reliable source...
> 
> Also, if you have time to cause a problem, is it really that much
> trouble to take a few seconds to let people know that you did so
> with a public post?  Could avoid things like this in the future.
> l

Oh we are causing problems yeah right. Let me get one thing
straight, if we weren't around here to 'cause problems', there just
wouldn't be a mud at all.
Anyway basically what happens is that most admins, unlike a bunch of
mortals actually work for a living and work certainly takes precedence
over coding on a mud.
So if Zif had something else to do meanwhile that's it, and it certainly
feels like shit to have mortals whining about fact he wasnt able to post
about if for a few hours.

Sigwald, that sometimes wonders why mortals seem a lot worse than a boss.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>>>eq
date: Fri Apr  6 17:12:03 2001

> Hmm, is this really what you see in Myrddin's post, Sigwald?  I must
> have missread something, then.  I see a post from a player that lost
> some eq and got told a few things by players, but wanted to know wat
> happened to it, from a reliable source...
> 
> Also, if you have time to cause a problem, is it really that much
> trouble to take a few seconds to let people know that you did so
> with a public post?  Could avoid things like this in the future.
> l

I was at work.  I was skipping a meeting to try and fix the problem I 
caused, yes I caused it it happens to everyone.

I made a mistake in the rush to try and save the reboot, and dested
_all_ items out of /domains/events, instead of just the 
event objects themselves.  In other words I nailed every 
piece of currently loaded event equipment, couldnt of possibly
been worse, right before a boot etc there was a ton of it.

I _DIDNT_ even realize what had happened until sometime
last night, when i logged in for 2 seconds after work, and
in between getting my kids fed/bathed/and to bed, then working on
a web page for an organization that my daughter and i belong to
and typed 'mail' and realized how many i had.

Unfortunately the fact that I did not post was not because I didn't
want to.  I did not realize what I had done until _Much_ later
than it actually happened.

And yes I probably should of left the last line off the post, 
but I am still a bit miffed about the discussion a few days ago
where Myrddin was blatently pointing fingers at us for our
'hobby'.  And The tone of that post was accusatory, and not
questioning what happened at all, 

Perhaps I misread the intention, but that coupled with the
conversation from a couple of nights ago did not sit well

-zif

I am done with this topic.  we are _Very_ good about keeping the
player base informed of things.  I am sure you can allow us the 
occasionaly missed post about something I didn't even know happened.


-----------------

poster: Jimth
subject: general
date: Sat Apr  7 16:04:48 2001

Spear's regards to reddragon
He apologizes for his actions, he did have a wall trig, and some
other basic trigs, but he said he was there and thats one thing I
believe, but what the admins where saying for example if he went to
the bathroom how would anyone know if he was gone or not so thats
the point DO NOT be a lazy mudder...
ok ok last words from spear. "For Everyone to Kick some PHUCKING ASS
and make exp" and learn from the mistake.
-peace out -=SpEaR=-

-----------------

poster: Tigran
subject: Loot trigs.
date: Sun Apr  8 18:10:36 2001

In the botting rules it states that looting trigs are ok.  That's to
loot from the corpse, however you do it (and some of you do so in
various ways). 
However, what I'm seeing is that people tend to do a lot more than
loot.  Even some of those things that you do, like looking, stopping
spells, etc. I'm ok with.  Here are some of the things that I
consider illegal for loot trigs.

1.) Moving to a different room.  This is the biggest loot trig no no
in my book.

2.) KIlling another monster.

3.) Using a skill or spell.  (Especially combat related ones).

These are flags for me to examine your actions more carefully to
determine whether or not you are botting.  

I would also like to take this opportunity to state that I don't
enjoy catching bots.  Each one sickens me.  I feel that there is
little more a player can do to disrespect or damage the game than to
bot.  

Tigran

-----------------

poster: Tigran
subject: Addendum
date: Sun Apr  8 18:11:40 2001

DISCLAIMER TO MY PREVIOUS POST:

My views are not necessarily shared by that of the admins of Red
Dragon.  They are my opinions only.  I do not have final say in
anything of this nature.

T

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: botting
date: Sun Apr  8 21:23:01 2001

the whole movign thing, is that just after a kill or is it illegal
for us to move after a tank dies. Im pretty sure im not the only one
that sues a trig liek this for eq parties. Was just wondering if
that was botting. 
sleet

-----------------

poster: Palenon
subject: >Loot trigs.
date: Sun Apr  8 23:25:42 2001

3.) Using a skill or spell.  (Especially combat related ones).

The trig i have in mind is not combat related but should be
addressed as many ppl have one.
Would a corpse tinning trig be considered legal?..Many travelers use
it..and since corpses dissipate rather quickly if u r not on top u
will miss them.
Pal

-----------------

poster: Tigran
subject: >>Loot trigs.
date: Sun Apr  8 23:37:12 2001

On Sun Apr  8 23:25:42 2001 Palenon wrote post #62:
> 3.) Using a skill or spell.  (Especially combat related ones).
> 
> The trig i have in mind is not combat related but should be
> addressed as many ppl have one.
> Would a corpse tinning trig be considered legal?..Many travelers use
> it..and since corpses dissipate rather quickly if u r not on top u
> will miss them.
> Pal
Couple issues with this.  

1.) You're playing the game.  You really should be on top of it. 
That's your job here ;). 

2.) Tinning, even though it is a skill is similar to digging graves
or eating corpses as far as I'm concerned. 

See previous disclaimer.

T


p.s. Please don't ask for every hypothetical forinstance.  It gets
very very old.  (This was a good question, but some of the others
I've fielded are not.)

-----------------

poster: Javier
subject: Summer Lovin'...
date: Tue Apr 10 19:54:39 2001

Hello little mudders and muddesses...
I'm leaving for home tommorow for the summer, which as usual, means
0 mud time and resources.
So all of you have a good summer (or winter, depending where you are).
See you all in the fall.
Always
Javi

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: RD website
date: Thu Apr 12 07:19:41 2001

Zif mentioned this briefly earlier, and I put up a little blurb on
my website, but here's how to access the RD website right now:

Basically, just replace reddragon.clansoft.com with dark.x.dtu.dk, including
any links on the website
Yeah, this can get a bit tedious in having to copy the link location
every time and changing the dns from reddragon to dark every time,
but atleast you access the site this way.

If you just go to dark.x.dtu.dk and try to access the site that way,
you'll get past the Text/Non-Text links, but after that you'll get
nothing but problems because the links all point specifically to
reddragon.clansoft.com

-WC

-----------------

poster: Sigwald
subject: >RD website
date: Thu Apr 12 09:10:58 2001

On Thu Apr 12 07:19:41 2001 Wildchild wrote post #65:
> Zif mentioned this briefly earlier, and I put up a little blurb on
> my website, but here's how to access the RD website right now:
> 
> Basically, just replace reddragon.clansoft.com with dark.x.dtu.dk, including
> any links on the website
> Yeah, this can get a bit tedious in having to copy the link location
> every time and changing the dns from reddragon to dark every time,
> but atleast you access the site this way.
> 
> If you just go to dark.x.dtu.dk and try to access the site that way,
> you'll get past the Text/Non-Text links, but after that you'll get
> nothing but problems because the links all point specifically to
> reddragon.clansoft.com
> 
> -WC

To access home page of reddragon its http://dark.x.dtu.dk/~mud by
the way...

-----------------

poster: Zax
subject: >botting
date: Thu Apr 12 11:10:31 2001

On Sun Apr  8 21:23:01 2001 Sleet wrote post #61:
> the whole movign thing, is that just after a kill or is it illegal
> for us to move after a tank dies. Im pretty sure im not the only one
> that sues a trig liek this for eq parties. Was just wondering if
> that was botting. 
> sleet

imho, if you are doing eq, you should die like a man! none of this
wimpying shit :)

-----------------

poster: Tigran
subject: hrm
date: Thu Apr 12 16:42:09 2001

I have nothing to say.

(j/k Sigs!)

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >>RD website
date: Thu Apr 12 17:02:30 2001

On Thu Apr 12 09:10:58 2001 Sigwald wrote post #66:
> On Thu Apr 12 07:19:41 2001 Wildchild wrote post #65:
> > Zif mentioned this briefly earlier, and I put up a little blurb on
> > my website, but here's how to access the RD website right now:
> > 
> > Basically, just replace reddragon.clansoft.com with dark.x.dtu.dk, including
> > any links on the website
> > Yeah, this can get a bit tedious in having to copy the link location
> > every time and changing the dns from reddragon to dark every time,
> > but atleast you access the site this way.
> > 
> > If you just go to dark.x.dtu.dk and try to access the site that way,
> > you'll get past the Text/Non-Text links, but after that you'll get
> > nothing but problems because the links all point specifically to
> > reddragon.clansoft.com
> > 
> > -WC
> 
> To access home page of reddragon its http://dark.x.dtu.dk/~mud by
> the way...

err, yeah, realized I somehow forgot that now :)

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: triggers / cheating
date: Fri Apr 13 09:14:30 2001

  Pardon me if this is premature, or I am simply not informed enough
on the issue, as I can only go by what I've seen or heard.

  Certain issues have come to my attention with regards to the
recent effort to eliminate cheating through the useage of illegal
triggers.  I know of at least one specific case where a player was
accused incorrectly.
  I understand the reasoning for the prevention of many of these
triggers, as some are such that [even if they are not being used to
bot currently] make botting even for short periods of time tempting
and difficult to manage against.  I agree.  However, I must disagree
with what I see as an embodiment of a witch-hunt, something akin to
a police state.  Reddragon is a game.  We come here [at least most I
believe] to relax, unwind, and play a game
  Some of us, while our triggers are limited [if existant at all] we
are capable of responding as fast as any trigger, especially for
important events like looting and attack/casting at the next npc in
the room or an adjacent room.
  For my personal situation, I use a small set of macros for the
majority of my commands to the mud, these require me to hit one of
the function keys.  My client also supports something that resembles
the mud's command aliases on a higher scale enabling me to
reconfigure a large amount of material with one word.  Lastly, I
have a small set of 9 triggers.  Seven of these simply recast each
of my evoker spells at the current combatant, the other two report
the 'rltime' to me when I tick or tock so I can manually synchronize
myself [my client doesn't support timers of any sort].
  IF I am not lagging, and you observe my moments when I am not
currently talking with someone, I may appear to be 'botting'. 
Combat for me consists of about 10 keystrokes / minute.  I can type
about 60-80 words in that time otherwise.  I'm fast, and so are some
of my friends here.
  What is my point? ... simply this ... please don't accuse me or
others who have macros and can operate quickly like me blindly of
cheating.  I know it may seem simply, if we aren't cheating then
we'll be ok, but it's not.  We're people not just players, we have
feelings, we get upset, we deserve a little respect in that role ...
just a little :P

- Arkangyle

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: >triggers / cheating
date: Fri Apr 13 11:33:02 2001

On Fri Apr 13 09:14:30 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #70:
>   Pardon me if this is premature, or I am simply not informed enough
> on the issue, as I can only go by what I've seen or heard.
> 
>   Certain issues have come to my attention with regards to the
> recent effort to eliminate cheating through the useage of illegal
> triggers.  I know of at least one specific case where a player was
> accused incorrectly.

Let me show what the system recorded for Malifix this evening:

Malifix:
    10: cast breath of magic, cast stop, dig grave and go east
    10: go east, go east and go east
    11: go north and go north
    23: cast stop and dig grave
    21: cast breath of magic, cast stop, dig grave and cast breath
of magic at a beholder
    11: cast breath of magic, cast stop, dig grave and go north
    13: cast breath of magic, cast stop, dig grave and cast breath
of magic at a guard
    96: cast breath of magic, cast stop and dig grave

The numbers means number of times the user did that sequense of commands.
From the above it is clear that his death trig is "cast stop and dig grave".
For some reason he almost always manages to cast breath of magic right
before his target dies, but that is probably because that is the way he
kills them. Sometimes he manages to start another fight or move quickly
enough for the system to register it as a macro, but it is neglible
compared to the number of times he does not.

Correctly interpretted one could not accuse Malifix of botting from the
above. On the contrary it just about proves he did not bot this session.

But even if it had been a clear bot trail, all it is good for is reason for
closer inspection the old way.

PS. I hope Malifix doesn't mind that I used him as example and disclosed
his commands to the mud. As you see the data does not really contain
anything personal.

Khosan

-----------------

poster: Tigran
subject: Apology
date: Fri Apr 13 13:55:20 2001

Alright, I'm going to aplogize publicly to Malifix.  But...I want to get a 
couple of things straight before doing so.  I did /not/ accuse him
of botting.  I also felt that I was rather cordial in my approach to
him.  To me it looked like he might have a recast set up on his loot
triggers.  It did happen 30 times on two different monsters that he
said he himself said that he was chain killing. 
I merely asked him to remove the trig.  Malifix explained that it
wasn't a trig, but a macro that he had set up, and I dropped it
completely.  That's it.

So just so the record is straight here, I didn't accuse Malifix of
botting.  That's a whole different level IMHO.  I did investigate a
possible illegal trig.  I would have been utterly shocked if Malifix
was botting.  He's a pretty stand up guy from what I can tell, even
if we do get into arguments on occassion.

So, I apologize to Malifix for any misinterpretation that may have
happened.  The fact that he is following the rules is a breath of
fresh air to me.  

T

-----------------

poster: Athena
subject: HI Ya'll
date: Tue Apr 17 11:15:16 2001

Yep, its me. I asked to be dewizzed tonight. I have thought long and
hard about this
and I'm just not gonna have time to do any wiz work anymore. There
is no reason for me to remain a wiz and take a spot another wiz
could have and do a much better job.
I would like to thank the Gods and wizzes on here for a great time
and alot of patience with me and my coding abilities....laf
And to the players, thanks for putting up with me and hugs to all of you.
I'm gonna do the cleric thing with just resses, reincs, remove
scars, lil heal, etc.
I'll be on to chat and run heal alls when i can.
I can help out a little that way, especially the newbies, with the heal alls.
Thanks to all of you and I'll be around when i can :)
P.S. A special thanks to my mentor, Magneto (Wand Boy) for all his
help and abuse...laf
Love to you all!!!
Athy

-----------------

poster: Dagger
subject: Typo report
date: Wed Apr 18 12:27:34 2001

(Originally in wiz.typo)
Typo reported from /domains/hyboria/kurisk/zamora/r41--

in the sign here:

the city council has deemed that no outsiders will be able to enter the city until

i think it should be:
the city council has deemed that no outsiders will NOT be able to enter the city 


-----------------

poster: Sigwald
subject: >Typo report
date: Wed Apr 18 13:55:14 2001

On Wed Apr 18 12:27:34 2001 Dagger wrote post #74:
> (Originally in wiz.typo)
> Typo reported from /domains/hyboria/kurisk/zamora/r41--
> 
> in the sign here:
> 
> the city council has deemed that no outsiders will be able to enter the
city until
> 
> i think it should be:
> the city council has deemed that no outsiders will NOT be able to enter
the city 
> 

I'm not so sure but I thought double negation wasnt proper english?
Btw the sign IS correct since it does say that no one should be able
to enter...
It might be a weird way to say it, no idea (it'd be terribly proper in
french, but heh...)

-----------------

poster: Tigran
subject: >>Typo report
date: Wed Apr 18 13:57:53 2001

On Wed Apr 18 13:55:14 2001 Sigwald wrote post #75:
> On Wed Apr 18 12:27:34 2001 Dagger wrote post #74:
> > (Originally in wiz.typo)
> > Typo reported from /domains/hyboria/kurisk/zamora/r41--
> > 
> > in the sign here:
> > 
> > the city council has deemed that no outsiders will be able to enter the
> city until
> > 
> > i think it should be:
> > the city council has deemed that no outsiders will NOT be able to enter
> the city 
> > 
> 
> I'm not so sure but I thought double negation wasnt proper english?
> Btw the sign IS correct since it does say that no one should be able
> to enter...
> It might be a weird way to say it, no idea (it'd be terribly proper in
> french, but heh...)
Sigwald is right.  The way that Dagger suggested would state,
effectively, that all outsiders can come and go as they please. 
Possibly the sentance as before was a bit cryptic, but it wasn't
wrong.

T

-----------------

poster: Krellen
subject: >>>Typo report
date: Wed Apr 18 19:32:57 2001

It's not even cryptic.  It's perfectly standard English. 

-----------------

poster: Tigran
subject: >>>>Typo report
date: Wed Apr 18 19:34:03 2001

On Wed Apr 18 19:32:57 2001 Krellen wrote post #77:
> It's not even cryptic.  It's perfectly standard English. 
Yes, but Americans are reading it and they might get confused.

-----------------

poster: Krellen
subject: >>>>>Typo report
date: Wed Apr 18 19:35:06 2001

On Wed Apr 18 19:34:03 2001 Tigran wrote post #78:
> On Wed Apr 18 19:32:57 2001 Krellen wrote post #77:
> > It's not even cryptic.  It's perfectly standard English. 
> Yes, but Americans are reading it and they might get confused.
I'm American and I have no problem whatsoever.  Dumb Americans
should be shot, they give us a bad name.  :)

-----------------

poster: Dalak
subject: >>>>>>Typo report
date: Wed Apr 18 19:36:06 2001

On Wed Apr 18 19:35:06 2001 Krellen wrote post #79:
> On Wed Apr 18 19:34:03 2001 Tigran wrote post #78:
> > On Wed Apr 18 19:32:57 2001 Krellen wrote post #77:
> > > It's not even cryptic.  It's perfectly standard English. 
> > Yes, but Americans are reading it and they might get confused.
> I'm American and I have no problem whatsoever.  Dumb Americans
> should be shot, they give us a bad name.  :)
I understood it completely, and Im a dumb American ;)

-----------------

poster: Silverarc
subject: Safe Help
date: Wed Apr 18 22:39:50 2001

I think that in the Castle Help, it should SAY that safes left in
your inventory disappear...Idon't believe it said that in the help.
Maybe I should check it again

-----------------

poster: Davaris
subject: >>>>>>>Typo report
date: Wed Apr 18 22:46:51 2001

but..... i don't wanna be shot....

Davaris (who's probably gonna get shot anyway)


-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >>>>>>>Typo report
date: Thu Apr 19 02:58:33 2001

On Wed Apr 18 19:36:06 2001 Dalak wrote post #80:
> On Wed Apr 18 19:35:06 2001 Krellen wrote post #79:
> > On Wed Apr 18 19:34:03 2001 Tigran wrote post #78:
> > > On Wed Apr 18 19:32:57 2001 Krellen wrote post #77:
> > > > It's not even cryptic.  It's perfectly standard English. 
> > > Yes, but Americans are reading it and they might get confused.
> > I'm American and I have no problem whatsoever.  Dumb Americans
> > should be shot, they give us a bad name.  :)
> I understood it completely, and Im a dumb American ;)
Shouldn't that be "I nderstood it completely, and Im a dmb American"?  8-)

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>>>>Typo report
date: Thu Apr 19 06:58:04 2001

On Wed Apr 18 19:35:06 2001 Krellen wrote post #79:
> On Wed Apr 18 19:34:03 2001 Tigran wrote post #78:
> > On Wed Apr 18 19:32:57 2001 Krellen wrote post #77:
> > > It's not even cryptic.  It's perfectly standard English. 
> > Yes, but Americans are reading it and they might get confused.
> I'm American and I have no problem whatsoever.  Dumb Americans
> should be shot, they give us a bad name.  :)
hey man leave us alone.

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: birthday party
date: Mon Apr 23 08:29:09 2001

  Sunday, April 29th is my mud birthday.  I'd like to invite
everyone here to a peaceful gathering (no pks) for cake and punch. 
Thank you all and I hope you have a nice mudbirthday too.

-----------------

poster: Bigglesworth
subject: definitions
date: Tue Apr 24 00:58:03 2001

The subject of what constitutes a midbie etc. has been discussed by
morts many times in my opinion. 
Zifnab started talking about midbies and highbies and such in his
latest inform posts, i'm just wondering from a Wizard's mind what
constitutes these different classes. Newbies, Lowbies, Midbies,
Highbies, and more obvious is a newer term floating about, Gigbies.
It would really be helpful for a set definition of each, and maybe
expanding as time goes on.
And frankly player's opinions of what makes each category is so
different from each other they essentially suck and there is never
an answer.
I hope none of this got cut off too.
- Bigglesworth

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >definitions
date: Tue Apr 24 01:45:17 2001

On Tue Apr 24 00:58:03 2001 Bigglesworth wrote post #87:
> The subject of what constitutes a midbie etc. has been discussed by
> morts many times in my opinion. 
> Zifnab started talking about midbies and highbies and such in his
> latest inform posts, i'm just wondering from a Wizard's mind what
> constitutes these different classes. Newbies, Lowbies, Midbies,
> Highbies, and more obvious is a newer term floating about, Gigbies.
> It would really be helpful for a set definition of each, and maybe
> expanding as time goes on.
> And frankly player's opinions of what makes each category is so
> different from each other they essentially suck and there is never
> an answer.
> I hope none of this got cut off too.
> - Bigglesworth
btw those 2 posts were not my words alone :)

And one of hte first things that was mentioned was 'midbie'
what does that mean.

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: chat curse
date: Tue Apr 24 05:39:29 2001

just wanna know when and why i was chat cursed, i have a feeling but
woudl like affirmation
thanks, ;u
err, lu

-----------------

poster: Coal
subject: Definitions
date: Tue Apr 24 09:08:08 2001

In regards to Biggs post, he was asking for the wizard/admin opinion
of what consititues (worth/plaque/time etc) being a n
wbie/lowbie/midbie/highbie/gigbie.  After being called a midbie by
the gigbies and a highbie by the newbies, some standard on what
these terms mean would be helpful just so we are all on the same
page when we use these beloved terms.
-Coal the Dumbass Llama

-----------------

poster: Talgore
subject: Tunes and highbies.
date: Fri Apr 27 01:13:40 2001

Right you prolly all noticed I havn't been playing much and probably
some of you are quite glad about that :)
One of the main reasons I've not played in a while is that after
you hit 3gig + oit gets SOO boring getting xp when you need
50-60mil a lavel even playing the way i used to that still took
2 days which was kinda sad. now I've come back on to read a lot
of posts saying midbies have been tuned up(which is good) and
highbies like graxon and probablly everyone above 2Gig has
been tuned down. What is the point now of plahying the mud after
you hit 2-3Gig. Once you hit that kinda thresh hold you can
max out any guild on the mud but getting anything worthwhite in 2nd
guild is nearly impossible and now that you can't 2nd as Abjurer
2nd guild is probably a unless endevor for all but maybe 5 people
on the mud graxon being the only one with the worth to do it in
a decent way And I wouldn't think he can get more than 35 or so levels
and even that isn't gona be that usefull in any guild but abjurer.
I guess what I'm rambleing towards is that highbies need a reason
to keep playing after they hit 2G there needs to be some sort of
target to head for otherwise people like me the whole thing quickly
becomes boring and the only reason for continuing playing is
to help friends and clanmates out. And there was so much bullshit
being thrown about concering the Mojo clan with members being pressured
into leaving by jealous highbies that even that aspect of the game
quickly became more bother that it was worth.
now i have no idea what could be done to solve the highbie problem
bit something needs to be done to keep people at the top interested
while keeping the whole mud in balance.

talgore

And pedron thinks HE can spam :))

-----------------

poster: Lokie
subject: >Tunes and highbies.
date: Fri Apr 27 01:21:14 2001

i agree with you talgore I think something should be done to help
out where highbies are concerned I hate seeing good people get board
of something because they hit every step and theres no where else to
go. I don't know what should be done but something does need to be
or they will have to tune highbies back up and midbies back donw
because all the highbies might walk out.
lokie

-----------------

poster: Killaaz
subject: >>Tunes and highbies.
date: Fri Apr 27 01:42:21 2001

On Fri Apr 27 01:21:14 2001 Lokie wrote post #92:
> i agree with you talgore I think something should be done to help
> out where highbies are concerned I hate seeing good people get board
> of something because they hit every step and theres no where else to
> go. I don't know what should be done but something does need to be
> or they will have to tune highbies back up and midbies back donw
> because all the highbies might walk out.
> lokie
In all muds there are players that the mud cant keep up with. They
max stuff and hafta wait until they can use the exp for something
useful. Not much to do about it. Cant demand the wizards should work
even harder then they do.
Nuff from me..back to dragin the norweigans.
//Killaaz

-----------------

poster: Lokie
subject: >>>Tunes and highbies.
date: Fri Apr 27 01:49:20 2001

On Fri Apr 27 01:42:21 2001 Killaaz wrote post #93:
> On Fri Apr 27 01:21:14 2001 Lokie wrote post #92:
> > i agree with you talgore I think something should be done to help
> > out where highbies are concerned I hate seeing good people get board
> > of something because they hit every step and theres no where else to
> > go. I don't know what should be done but something does need to be
> > or they will have to tune highbies back up and midbies back donw
> > because all the highbies might walk out.
> > lokie
> In all muds there are players that the mud cant keep up with. They
> max stuff and hafta wait until they can use the exp for something
> useful. Not much to do about it. Cant demand the wizards should work
> even harder then they do.
> Nuff from me..back to dragin the norweigans.
> //Killaaz
im not demanding anything I know how hard the wizzards are working
on the mud ,) just saying in sometime down the road something will
have/need/want to be done. Just saying I wasent trying to be an ass
when I said it was more of a 3rd person point of view. REDDRAGON
rocks! sorry if my last post came off hard.
lokie

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: >>>>Tunes and highbies.
date: Fri Apr 27 02:01:17 2001

On Fri Apr 27 01:49:20 2001 Lokie wrote post #94:
> On Fri Apr 27 01:42:21 2001 Killaaz wrote post #93:
> > On Fri Apr 27 01:21:14 2001 Lokie wrote post #92:
> > > i agree with you talgore I think something should be done to help
> > > out where highbies are concerned I hate seeing good people get board
> > > of something because they hit every step and theres no where else to
> > > go. I don't know what should be done but something does need to be
> > > or they will have to tune highbies back up and midbies back donw
> > > because all the highbies might walk out.
> > > lokie
> > In all muds there are players that the mud cant keep up with. They
> > max stuff and hafta wait until they can use the exp for something
> > useful. Not much to do about it. Cant demand the wizards should work
> > even harder then they do.
> > Nuff from me..back to dragin the norweigans.
> > //Killaaz
> im not demanding anything I know how hard the wizzards are working
> on the mud ,) just saying in sometime down the road something will
> have/need/want to be done. Just saying I wasent trying to be an ass
> when I said it was more of a 3rd person point of view. REDDRAGON
> rocks! sorry if my last post came off hard.
> lokie

The biggest problem with tuning the mud to suit  type people is that it either a) best case,
the rest of the playerbase gets neglected, or b) worst case, the
rest of the playerbase gets stuck playing a mud thats suited for
players who are not them, and in most cases, whom they will never be
due to constant tuning.

Now, I'm all for tunes. Tunes are good. *deftly dodges the oncoming
flames* But the problenm is, who do you tune towards? Everyone will
be affected in some way, and some will be affected more than others.
Thats called life. But if we did cater to only a certain section of
the playerbase, then the mud has the very real possibility of
stagnating, and the last mud I was on that did that didnt last too
much longer.

Now, yes i do agree that tunes should go, at least marginally, the
way of the loyal players, but how many new, potentially loyal
players would we be losing if we tune the mud in a way to make them
suck so much that they can never hope to compete? This has already
happened with eq, and now something is being done to rectify that,
which is all well and good. But, as Killaaz noted already, some
players just play too hard for a mud to keep up with. Personally, I
wouldnt like to spend 80 hrs+ a week coding new stuff to keep 10 -
30 players happy, or at least not unless I was getting paid damn
good money for it.

From what little I can see, it seems that highbies+ are bored of
doing the same thing. Well, if thats true, and you love playing
here, why not put a little effort into the mud itself, instead of
your characters? Talgore did a small amount of coding. No doubt more
than I have personally done, but I'm sure he has taken from the mud
(in playing terms) proportionally more than I have aswell.

Get the highbies to code some more when they get bored and things
will get less boring =)


- Tranquil

*

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Tunes and highbies.
date: Fri Apr 27 03:35:33 2001

On Fri Apr 27 01:13:40 2001 Talgore wrote post #91:
> Right you prolly all noticed I havn't been playing much and probably
> some of you are quite glad about that :)
> One of the main reasons I've not played in a while is that after
> you hit 3gig + oit gets SOO boring getting xp when you need
> 50-60mil a lavel even playing the way i used to that still took
> 2 days which was kinda sad. now I've come back on to read a lot
> of posts saying midbies have been tuned up(which is good) and
> highbies like graxon and probablly everyone above 2Gig has
> been tuned down. What is the point now of plahying the mud after
> you hit 2-3Gig. Once you hit that kinda thresh hold you can
> max out any guild on the mud but getting anything worthwhite in 2nd
> guild is nearly impossible and now that you can't 2nd as Abjurer
> 2nd guild is probably a unless endevor for all but maybe 5 people
> on the mud graxon being the only one with the worth to do it in
> a decent way And I wouldn't think he can get more than 35 or so levels
> and even that isn't gona be that usefull in any guild but abjurer.
> I guess what I'm rambleing towards is that highbies need a reason
> to keep playing after they hit 2G there needs to be some sort of
> target to head for otherwise people like me the whole thing quickly
> becomes boring and the only reason for continuing playing is
> to help friends and clanmates out. And there was so much bullshit
> being thrown about concering the Mojo clan with members being pressured
> into leaving by jealous highbies that even that aspect of the game
> quickly became more bother that it was worth.
> now i have no idea what could be done to solve the highbie problem
> bit something needs to be done to keep people at the top interested
> while keeping the whole mud in balance.
> 
> talgore
> 
> And pedron thinks HE can spam :))
There is an idea on the table at the moment that would more
than likely make the upper players on the mud very happy.
Not going to get into the details, dont know how hard it is
to code, or all the details of how it will work,
but there is some thought going into it.


-----------------

poster: Zyz
subject: tunes/interest
date: Fri Apr 27 05:05:20 2001

This is a follow up to Talgore, Tranquil, and Killaaz, all of whom I
agree with.  First, there are still eq monsters that haven't been
killed, so there is more to do, even when exp is worthless. Why
these monsters, or many rare monsters, don't get killed is an issue
that I know the admin and players are working on.
Second, I'd like to continue with Tranquil's posting regarding
wizzing/area creation. Several of our admin were very good players
who reached the top of the game and started coding. Large efforts
have been made to keep the game interesting at the high end, and to
maintain the "challenge" of playing. It seems a result of this is
very few high level players actually wizzing. Some high worth
players have coded areas (mostly high worth areas coincidentally),
but the new 'wizzes' seem to be mainly well below 200m worth...
Nowhere near the top, with very little experience in terms of high
end play as it currently exists.
Perhaps the ability to pretty much 'complete' the game would
encourage high worth players to take a more active wiz role. Some
players would certainly be lost, as all will be eventually, but some
would likely embrace the opportunity to maintain an active and
'challenging' role as a wiz.
The mud currently seems stretched very thin. Admin are working very
hard, the player base is growing, the gap between low and high is
growing, and very few high levels are wizzing to help out. I don't
think adding more use for top player exp will help that situation,
as it would seem to continue the current trends.
This post was based on my own feelings about wizzing. I would like
to wiz, but _after_ I 'complete' the game - i.e. kill the monsters
worth killing, get the eq worth getting, and play all the guilds.
I've just had a lot of trouble doing the first 2 things, and I lack
eq to do the 3rd. (working on solving these problems)

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: Cool game
date: Fri Apr 27 15:38:52 2001

Hey guys, I found a cool game - The 4th Coming

It is a Graphical mud style game - and there are some sites running
it free of charge!!!

TI
www.abyssnet.com is where I have been playing - you have to download 70M or
so of stuff - but its GREAT!!

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Kazulanth
subject: >Cool game
date: Sat Apr 28 19:31:55 2001

On Fri Apr 27 15:38:52 2001 Jaws wrote post #98:
> Hey guys, I found a cool game - The 4th Coming
> 
> It is a Graphical mud style game - and there are some sites running
> it free of charge!!!
> 
> TI
> www.abyssnet.com is where I have been playing - you have to download 70M or
> so of stuff - but its GREAT!!
> 
> Jaws


I think this is rather inappropriate, if you want to advertise tell
your friends.


-----------------

poster: Apathy
subject: >>Cool game
date: Sun Apr 29 17:46:49 2001

On Sat Apr 28 19:31:55 2001 Kazulanth wrote post #99:
> On Fri Apr 27 15:38:52 2001 Jaws wrote post #98:
> > Hey guys, I found a cool game - The 4th Coming
> > 
> > It is a Graphical mud style game - and there are some sites running
> > it free of charge!!!
> > 
> > TI
> > www.abyssnet.com is where I have been playing - you have to download 70M
or
> > so of stuff - but its GREAT!!
> > 
> > Jaws
> 
> 
> I think this is rather inappropriate, if you want to advertise tell
> your friends.
> 

Most advertisements of other muds are inappropriate, but I
appreciate this one, as free graphical muds are rather hard to
find.

-Apathy

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: EQ!
date: Mon Apr 30 19:49:02 2001

mmm, i reinced tank..yay!..anyway i wanna try some midbie eq to test
the changes the wizzes have worked so hard on
i can mud from 11am(if i feel like waking up)-1am(later if my dad
fixes my computer)
i need an abj, a gazer with medusa, a harmer, 1 or 2 healers with qc and rev
i also want a few evokers..with 3-5 maxxed dtypes, preferably
contact me if you want to reinc evoker and i'll let ya know what
dtypes to get
the plan is this...we max a few dtypes, if a monsie isnt vuln to
that dtype we move on

if your interested in attempting this with me, just send a mail
-lu

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: Singing Blade skill...WC60 limit?
date: Tue May  1 04:46:36 2001

Is it possible to boost a weapon's class past 60  with the Singing
Blade skill?  I'd like to know if it's worth training it, you see.

-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: bug fi x stuff 178
date: Thu May  3 18:29:43 2001

sitgald saya skills form other guilds than dragon shold be
penelized, just wondering how tiger claw is. tiger claw is in tiger
guild, but it has masteries in dragon masters, poison claw etc
*(/Snoop typoes

-----------------

poster: Sirk
subject: trig use
date: Fri May  4 13:57:50 2001

kinda curious, with the new rules on trigs and all that are considered botting
would those select few who have safe cracking trigs fall into the
realm of botting, since
that trig is basically used to input combs over and over w/o the
user typing each one?
just wondering
Sirk 

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >trig use
date: Fri May  4 14:04:31 2001

On Fri May  4 13:57:50 2001 Sirk wrote post #104:
> kinda curious, with the new rules on trigs and all that are considered
botting
> would those select few who have safe cracking trigs fall into the
> realm of botting, since
> that trig is basically used to input combs over and over w/o the
> user typing each one?
> just wondering
> Sirk 
the recent slew of people using those triggers will
find them selves in trouble for sure if they wander 
away from their keyboard, or switch windows or
whatever, I nuked a player 2 nights ago for botting
the very same thing.

As to whether or not its botting if you are interactive, 
I will reserve judgement for now, and answer later

-----------------

poster: Kazulanth
subject: New newbie site
date: Tue May  8 05:15:43 2001

Made a new newbie help page, this time explaining the things in
one's score, and the differences in a newbie score and a highbie
(well, my) score. The url is:

http://www.1freespace.com/kazulanth/newbiescore.html

Any revisions or additions or such, please mudmail me. First draft and all.

--kaz

-----------------

poster: Baer
subject: event daemon
date: Wed May  9 23:36:27 2001

Now that events are only run by the daemon, there doesnt seem to be
many run ever at all. Half the events havent run in over a week now.
I think it would be nice to have events a little more often, doesnt
have to be regular, just run each event every week or for the
smaller events, every few days.


-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >event daemon
date: Thu May 10 03:26:01 2001

On Wed May  9 23:36:27 2001 Baer wrote post #107:
> Now that events are only run by the daemon, there doesnt seem to be
> many run ever at all. Half the events havent run in over a week now.
> I think it would be nice to have events a little more often, doesnt
> have to be regular, just run each event every week or for the
> smaller events, every few days.
> 
nod, someone needs to go through and make sure when it wakes up
to look for events to run, it excludes those from the list that 
cannot be run yet due to time constraints.  right now it just picks
one from the entire list, and if it cant be run due to time limits,
it just returns and does nothing.

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >>event daemon
date: Thu May 10 06:49:35 2001

On Thu May 10 03:26:01 2001 Zifnab wrote post #108:
> On Wed May  9 23:36:27 2001 Baer wrote post #107:
> > Now that events are only run by the daemon, there doesnt seem to be
> > many run ever at all. Half the events havent run in over a week now.
> > I think it would be nice to have events a little more often, doesnt
> > have to be regular, just run each event every week or for the
> > smaller events, every few days.
> > 
> nod, someone needs to go through and make sure when it wakes up
> to look for events to run, it excludes those from the list that 
> cannot be run yet due to time constraints.  right now it just picks
> one from the entire list, and if it cant be run due to time limits,
> it just returns and does nothing.

I made the suggestion at one point (right after the daemon was
changed to what it is now) of the possibility of grouping similar
events together, so that it might still be possible that two events
could run simultaneously.
Like suck, nosuck, or whatever could be grouped; ToL, ToD; all of
the statue events could be grouped.

One wiz told me that this would probably take some effort in coding,
but I thought I'd bring it up again in case some wiz that needs
something to do might take an interest in it :)

-WC

-----------------

poster: Kaos
subject: Eq list
date: Thu May 10 16:21:43 2001

Me and Seth has started a new eq list with updated stats.
URL: http://158.38.88.43/~zapateria/EQ/eq.php


-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: Lu
date: Fri May 11 03:56:09 2001

I;m gone for the summer, see you all in september!

-----------------

poster: Kazulanth
subject: Another newbie thing for general review
date: Fri May 11 04:04:32 2001

Still in beta. Any feedback mudmail me.

http://www.1freespace.com/kazulanth/newbiefaq.html

--kaz

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Idea report
date: Sun May 13 16:52:37 2001

On Sun May 13 15:57:21 2001 Shinryu wrote post #113:
> (Originally in wiz.player.ideas)
> Idea reported from /domains/hyboria/mixer/caveman/rooms/circle5--
> 
> some of the spells take a while to type, so why not give some of the
longer ones abbreviations that are noted at the guild, to make things
easier
> 
Just wanted to reply to this in public.  please do not followup to 
this.

The reason is that spells/skills are cast using what you type to
look for hte spell to cast, example 'hand of balance' the file name for
that is /obj/spells/hand_of_balance.c.  I really dont want to have 
to start checking what you typed against a list of abbreviations
for spells/skills, it woudl get pretty ugly pretty fast considering
there are a couple of hundred of them.

That is what we give you aliases/commands for and or you can use your
client to accomplish hte same goal, and not put any extra burden on the
mudlib to do it for you.

-----------------

poster: Salaam
subject: what is the reason that the tiger tells everyone they dont need her
date: Sun May 13 22:46:53 2001

help. does she really heal or is she just bogus like the pawn shop
in hyboria.what is the reason that the tiger tells everyone they dont need her
help. does she really heal or is she just bogus like the pawn shop
is there a reason the tiger in catworld wont heal any one?

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: >what is the reason that the tiger tells everyone they dont need her
date: Mon May 14 00:22:35 2001

On Sun May 13 22:46:53 2001 Salaam wrote post #115:
> help. does she really heal or is she just bogus like the pawn shop
> in hyboria.what is the reason that the tiger tells everyone they dont need
her
> help. does she really heal or is she just bogus like the pawn shop
> is there a reason the tiger in catworld wont heal any one?

She just has a real low value for how low on hps you need to be before
she will heal you..

Khosan

-----------------

poster: Trigon
subject: Hunting
date: Tue May 15 23:55:43 2001

Hm, I think my objective for reporting the bug on hunting in mist
form was an effort to get it so when you hunted in mist form, it
just dropped to the room like everything else does.  Dunno if it'll
get changed that way, but that was my intention :)
Trigon

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: author deaths
date: Wed May 16 08:39:08 2001

Not sure how many people care, but I'll post these anyways...

If ya hadn't heard by now, Douglas Adams, 49, author of The
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (and subsequent novels) died of a
heart attack last Friday at his home in Santa Barbara, CA.
If you'd like to share your thoughts about him, please visit
www.douglasadams.com and join the many hundreds of others that have
already posted on the message board there.

Also, I just found out within the last hour that fantasy author Dan
Parkinson died of cirrhosis of the liver, and he was 66.
Figured I'd mention him because I know lots of people around here
have read/or do read Dragonlance, and Parkinson wrote the Dwarven
Nations trilogy, a couple of other novels and some short stories
(amongst his 30 novels).

-WildChild

-----------------

poster: Enigma
subject: I'm going to Yensidworld!
date: Fri May 25 08:41:14 2001

hello all i'm just lettin ya know that effective immediatly i'm on
vacation and am going to the Magic the Gathering card Game National
Championships at DisneyWorld(my first ever paid vacation) anyway
i'll be back on the 7th or 8th and maybe have some fun sotries for
ya Enigma

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: new tunes
date: Tue May 29 01:18:30 2001

I would like to test the new tunes that have been made since the
birth of the eq_tune group.  I am in need of 10 midbies ranging in
worth from greater then 250m to less then 1G.  I will tank and Wagro
will harm as of now.  Would like a vulner, 4 evokers with 2 maxxed
dtypes, a witch with gaze+mastery and medusa+mastery maxxed, and 2
healers with maxxed rev, healing spells and at least 1 with share
and dheal maxxed.

Most likely reincs will be needed and i am willing to party with
anyone who would wanna join up and need a reinc to scrounge up some
sac eq.  You can mudmail me or talk to me while i'm on if intersted
or have any questions.  Hopefully we can show the wizzes that their
work has helped make rd a better place for us little people and
prove to the doubters that organsied midbies can kill mobs bigger
then Trex!

-Lu

-----------------

poster: Wagro
subject: >new tunes
date: Tue May 29 05:02:00 2001

On Tue May 29 01:18:30 2001 Lu wrote post #120:
> I would like to test the new tunes that have been made since the
> birth of the eq_tune group.  I am in need of 10 midbies ranging in
> worth from greater then 250m to less then 1G.  I will tank and Wagro
> will harm as of now.  Would like a vulner, 4 evokers with 2 maxxed
> dtypes, a witch with gaze+mastery and medusa+mastery maxxed, and 2
> healers with maxxed rev, healing spells and at least 1 with share
> and dheal maxxed.
> 
> Most likely reincs will be needed and i am willing to party with
> anyone who would wanna join up and need a reinc to scrounge up some
> sac eq.  You can mudmail me or talk to me while i'm on if intersted
> or have any questions.  Hopefully we can show the wizzes that their
> work has helped make rd a better place for us little people and
> prove to the doubters that organsied midbies can kill mobs bigger
> then Trex!
> 
> -Lu
Btw, i just looked at the skills and spells required, evokers will
work at very well at 200m, healers will be fine at 120m at least,
hope to see you guys there =)

-----------------

poster: Fezzick
subject: >>new tunes
date: Tue May 29 05:45:56 2001

FYI - 200m may seem too low to be real for some...
 
Bear in mind that guilds were visited, and it is what it is - but
the small print should also say:
 
Profile is for a Gargoyle and spells are at 95% (to max would
require lesser spell max +addt'l 50m total...which still isn't
bad).
 
Post all replies to Lu - I believe all blaster slots are vacant (as
well as healers), so be sure to get in the game.
 

-----------------

poster: Wagro
subject: New tunes eq party
date: Wed May 30 22:57:16 2001

Ok, so far for this midbie thing, our list is: Elendor, Fezzick,
Helphyre, Lu, Rodo, Trigon,Wagro, Waz.
We are really in need of 1 healer 120m worth+ and 1-2 more evokers
200m worth+ that can both be on during U.S. evening times for our
party. If you're interested, just mail the group listed above.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: email hoax
date: Thu May 31 14:36:12 2001

Just posting this because Graxon has asked about it awhile ago, 
and one of my wifes friends forwarded this to us last night.

http://iwsun4.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/05/30/
10530hnhoax.xml?0530alert


-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >email hoax
date: Thu May 31 14:43:06 2001

On Thu May 31 14:36:12 2001 Zifnab wrote post #124:
> Just posting this because Graxon has asked about it awhile ago, 
> and one of my wifes friends forwarded this to us last night.
> 
> http://iwsun4.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/05/30/
> 10530hnhoax.xml?0530alert
> 
there should be a 0 before the 10530 on the second line, 
looks like our line wrap eats a letter.

-----------------

poster: Kazulanth
subject: a lovely happening
date: Tue Jun  5 01:04:32 2001

Kazulanth [sales]: hrm what do soft leather boots go for? 12dex
Miciaih [sales]: i will give you 50k kazulanth 
[sales]: You raise your eyebrow at Miciaih.
Miciaih tells you: what is the eyebrow for?
Miciaih tells you: do you not have them or something?/
You tell Miciaih  (AWAY: 'need to take a shower'): cause the answer I am
looking for is somewhere over 300k 
Miciaih tells you: ohh
You tell Miciaih  (AWAY: 'need to take a shower'): and it gets real old
when newbies try to buy every piece of eq on the market for whatever
they've got in their bank accounts
Kazulanth [sales]: fs: soft leather boots 300k 
Kazulanth [sales]: fs: blue monks belt 10k 
Kazulanth [sales]: now that's a little more your speed miciaih 
Miciaih tells you: for your cocky little self i have alot more than
that i just offer 50k to peaple that sound like they dont know how
much something is
Miciaih [sales]: no thanks i got one already 
Miciaih [sales]: but i will take it if its still forsale... 
You tell Miciaih  (AWAY: 'need to take a shower'): for your cocky
little self, you have 49,000 gold in the bank and 9,975 on hand.
Kazulanth [sales]: no, apparently i'm too cocky to sell things to
people like you who know the true market value of all things 
Miciaih tells you: ask palenon about the 200k it owes me
Miciaih tells you: you have only logged 1d7hours more than me hot
stuff i have seen just almost as much stuff as you
You tell Miciaih  (AWAY: 'need to take a shower'): Gee I guess you
would be old enough and well informed enough to know that the mud
age logging system was only put in two months ago.
Miciaih tells you: two words you pompus prick
You tell Miciaih  (AWAY: 'need to take a shower'): And that i've been here
since July 98.
Miciaih tells you: fuck you


Word of warning to newbies: Don't assume no one can call your bluff.
And don't do it to someone that most everyone knows can check your
score.


-----------------

poster: Palenon
subject: >a lovely happening
date: Tue Jun  5 08:43:48 2001

Exerpt from post 129 ... Miciaih tells you: ask palenon about the
200k it owes me ...

For the record .. I am not an 'it' .. 

Palenon prefers the term 'genetalia challenged'.

That is all, Happy Mudding, 
Pal

PS - My B-day was Saturday 'Happy B-day to me'!

-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: collector
date: Wed Jun  6 00:13:14 2001

I know many of you were/are upset about being though of as
'cheaters' after the recent removal of TPs from those who gave
lowbie eq to the collector. I can see the point that could be made
that it is not possible to tell whether or not a piece of eq should
be able to be sacced, and therefore impossible to tell if what you
are doing is 'legal' or not. 

But consider this:
43 rings of infravision were traded to the collector for TPs. The
rings you purchase from the RD shop or in hyboria (just one
example).

Lets assume that the vast majority of you have basic reasoning
powers. And most of you knew what sort of eq the collector would
take in the past (it was certainly _far_ above eq that was bought in
a shop for 3k gold). And a good portion of you know that we don't
give out TPs for nothing.

Is it just me or is this clearly a case of knowing that something is
too good to be not a bug? And only one bug report?

Is knowing something is probably a bug, even if you are not quite
sure, but doing it anyway, not bug reporting it, and telling all
your friends about it considered cheating? I guess I'll leave that
to the mud philosophers.

This is all I have to say about the matter. No one was truly
punished, you just had taken away what you should not have gotten in
the first place (TPs). I don't really care who is labeled with
'cheater' and who isn't. Just drop the indignanty.

As far as I'm concerned, the matter is dropped, and I won't be
bringing it up again.

--Marvin

-----------------

poster: Blackthorne
subject: Umm...
date: Wed Jun  6 11:36:33 2001

Just wondering, why is the magical machine still in cs?
-Blackthorne O'Spammy

-----------------

poster: Cleo
subject: eq wanted
date: Wed Jun  6 17:18:42 2001

I´m looking for EOB and rnarg´s war armor, I can pay pretty good.
I´m also looking for another caster weapon and some good boots.

Thanks

-----------------

poster: Cleo
subject: Clans
date: Wed Jun  6 17:22:55 2001

Hi! - I´m leader of the clan BraveHeart and we´re looking for ppl
that can be pretty active and got some eq. We´re mostly looking for
folks between 75m+.
mail or mudmail me.
Thanks

-----------------

poster: Jomo
subject: Cheaters.. I think not..
date: Wed Jun  6 17:46:22 2001

I don't get riled up about much on this mud, at least not enough
to post about it.  

TPs and other crap I don't care about aside... the assumption
many wizards are making that some of us cheated is just plain
out wrong.  Here's why:

1) There is no way for us to comprehend the will or design
of the wizzes.  Someone posted that we obviously don't
"give tps away for nothing".. explore bonus?
Beyond that, there is no explanation of what consitutes
saccable eq.. just whether the guy takes it or not..

2) There has been alot of banter about "balancing" this
place toward midbies.. because frankly most players
between 200M->600M have missed the bubble more than once.
While 20 tps would make a difference to a lowbie/midbie,
it would not make a whole lot of difference to a highbie
who has probably already sacced enough to cost more than
you could ever get through saccing crapola eq.  I took 
this as an adjustment towards lower worth players... 
which imo was needed greatly... I would not doubt if
other saw it the same way.

Now take the tps away, take the wishes away.. do what you will
to restore "balance" because balance is what makes us come back
for more, but everyone jumping on the bandwagon calling us 
cheaters.. that's just plain-old flat-out wrong.

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >Cheaters.. I think not..
date: Wed Jun  6 19:05:54 2001

another thing about this and balance is that how hard is it for
anyone to find a ring of infravison, you dont even have to buy
anythign or kill anythign over 500 exp to get one.
if anythign alowign eq like that to be able to be sacced might get
sloatinok used more by a larger player base.
I dunno if fairness at all comes into play with bug abuse at all,
but when i think of peopel abusing bugs its because there doing
somthing that isnt fair, or really playing or hurting the game in
general. keeping with what was said above about the few extra tps
helping out newbies and midbies alike to close the gap on the
highbies and the extra tps not helping the highbies that much, that
this would be a good tune to keep sloatinok giving tps for that
level eq.
Though as mentioned in the inform post earlier about how the wizzies
dont give tps out for nothing, i dont think this amount of tps could
really hurt the mud.
if anyhtign it would help, 
just as long as players were still only able to sac one kind of that
piece like we do now.
otherwise it would be abused to hell and back :).
thanks
sleet

-----------------

poster: Tigran
subject: All the hubub on TP's and balancing towards midbies.
date: Wed Jun  6 19:38:11 2001

Sorry, I can't buy Jomo's comment that it was assumed that this was
a move towards tuning the game towards midbies.

First off, and most importantly, the administration is VERY good
about letting the player base know when something is tuned in any
sort of dramatic fashion (and often minor too), whether it's in
favor of the players or against them.  This kind of a change would
definitly have been posted.  

Second, This would have made TP's rather useless, IMHO.  There was a
LOT of additional equipment that was easy to get and worth crap that
you could get TP's from .

Well, I'm losing my train of thought because my fingers don't keep
up with my head.  But I think the gist of what I was trying to say
is there.  Mostly that we tell you when things change, good or bad. 
In general, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.  Talk
to a wizard about it to get clarification.

T

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >Cheaters.. I think not..
date: Wed Jun  6 20:44:23 2001

On Wed Jun  6 17:46:22 2001 Jomo wrote post #136:
> I don't get riled up about much on this mud, at least not enough
> to post about it.  
> 
> TPs and other crap I don't care about aside... the assumption
> many wizards are making that some of us cheated is just plain
> out wrong.  Here's why:
> 
> 1) There is no way for us to comprehend the will or design
> of the wizzes.  Someone posted that we obviously don't
> "give tps away for nothing".. explore bonus?
> Beyond that, there is no explanation of what consitutes
> saccable eq.. just whether the guy takes it or not..
> 
> 2) There has been alot of banter about "balancing" this
> place toward midbies.. because frankly most players
> between 200M->600M have missed the bubble more than once.
> While 20 tps would make a difference to a lowbie/midbie,
> it would not make a whole lot of difference to a highbie
> who has probably already sacced enough to cost more than
> you could ever get through saccing crapola eq.  I took 
> this as an adjustment towards lower worth players... 
> which imo was needed greatly... I would not doubt if
> other saw it the same way.
> 
> Now take the tps away, take the wishes away.. do what you will
> to restore "balance" because balance is what makes us come back
> for more, but everyone jumping on the bandwagon calling us 
> cheaters.. that's just plain-old flat-out wrong.
wrong... we do not give out TP for nothing
explore... hrm you have to go thru thousands of rooms
to get an infra ring.. you don't even need 3k.  You can pick a free one up 
every reset in one of the newbie realms.

You guys may not beable to know the designs of the wizards but some things are
obvious.  We had the sac dude there.  He only took level 3 and up eq.  
Now suddenly he takes crap that most level 10 players wouldn't waste time with
and it goes without comment.  It is real easy to tell if you are
cheating.  If it seems to be too good to be true, and it wasn't
something a wizard posted...

*sends you to the clue penalty box*
Magneto

-----------------

poster: Jomo
subject: Magneto
date: Wed Jun  6 21:02:04 2001

I apologize for not knowing the difference between level 3 equipment
and level 10 equipment.. of course the fact that I've only heard
anything about the 10 levels of equipment in excerpts and that
I don't know of anyway to diffrentiate the difference between
the two.. your absolutely right, I do need a clue.

Many of the newbie-types were dragged through the first and 
perhaps they're second explore bonuses, so that constitutes
"free" to me.

Believe me, I appreciate what wizards are doing..
and I respect them alot..  but from the posts,
it looks like 2 assumptions are being made to 
label someone a cheater:
1. That we know what wizzes are thinking.
2. That you know what we're thinking.

-----------------

poster: Tigran
subject: >Magneto
date: Wed Jun  6 21:22:02 2001

On Wed Jun  6 21:02:04 2001 Jomo wrote post #140:
> I apologize for not knowing the difference between level 3 equipment
> and level 10 equipment.. of course the fact that I've only heard
> anything about the 10 levels of equipment in excerpts and that
> I don't know of anyway to diffrentiate the difference between
> the two.. your absolutely right, I do need a clue.
> 
> Many of the newbie-types were dragged through the first and 
> perhaps they're second explore bonuses, so that constitutes
> "free" to me.
> 
> Believe me, I appreciate what wizards are doing..
> and I respect them alot..  but from the posts,
> it looks like 2 assumptions are being made to 
> label someone a cheater:
> 1. That we know what wizzes are thinking.
> 2. That you know what we're thinking.
I think you missed the entire point that was made with respect to it
being something that we would tell you about.  We are fairly
consistant on this.  If it were newbies only that were doing this it
wouldn't have irritated me, personally, so much.  but this abuse
went from one end of the plaque to the other.  

Again..if it seems too good to be true..ask about it.  /One/ person did.

T

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>Magneto
date: Wed Jun  6 22:28:36 2001

> > 1. That we know what wizzes are thinking.
> > 2. That you know what we're thinking.

1.  you may not know exactly what we are thinking, but after playing 
this and other games you should have some inkling about how games work.
You may not realize it but as you play games you start to pick up on 
things like... I find this sword and it instantly kills anything, this 
is a cheat/bug/broken type thing.  That is black and white, you would
know that if we caught you with it we would kick your tail and whoever
put that in the game.  I am not saying the sac the infra thing is that
obvious but it at least something I would have personally known was 
too good to be true.  You don't need to know the # that it is level 3.
From player game terms.  The bit of eq was 'crap'.  You know you could
not sacrifice crap in the past, but now you can.  That is a warning 
sign.

2.  I do not know what you are specifically are thinking.  But I do 
have a fair bit of player knowledge from which to go on.  I was in 
the top 3 players on this mud when I wizzed.  I could have been # 1 but
like 1 and 2 I got to bored with mindless exp for hours on end.  My 
clan held absolute rule of this mud in our day.  We were the first clan
to break out and do highbie eq with regularity enough to equip 
ourselves and to sell to the rest of the mud.  So I would say I know
a bit about what the players experience on this mud is.  I would also 
say I am one of the more 'pro-player' wizs on the mud.  I personally 
want you guys to enjoy growing and leveling as fast as is reasonable.
Mudding should be fun, not a chore.  But I would not say this ring 
thing was reasonable.  No time, no effort for a gain of tp.  Even being
dragged thru your first explore bonus takes time.

Mags

-----------------

poster: Hierokliff
subject: couldnt resists...
date: Thu Jun  7 07:23:57 2001

'If its to good to be true, its not'
1. The admins in here are to nice, its not the first time players have
   found a bug and used it. Silverbelts, poisonweapons are the most known
   ones i guess. Old ones but still. When there is no punishments whatsoever
   when abusing one of these kinds of bugs, players will use em. 

2. Before it was ok to use any kind of bugs if you had bug reported them,
   then it was up to the admins to decide if it was a bug or if it was ok.
   On this iam not sure if it was really like this or not.

3. Put in a note in the 'help rules' that 'if its to good to be true, report
   it or be considered breaking the rules.'

//Hierokliff


-----------------

poster: Jordali
subject: >All the hubub on TP's and balancing towards midbies.
date: Thu Jun  7 08:24:59 2001

Wow.  It seems really simple to make such a fuss about all this tp
stuff I missed.
Hey, here is my $0.02 as usual, heh:

Some people didn't realize they were cheating, some, probably
tending heavily towards
the minority, were fully aware...the proof of that is someone made a
bug report.

Basically, the action taken by wizards certainly did not call the
players cheaters, or
imply it, it simply corrected the problem.  Actually, it corrected
the problem pretty
damned fairly and perfectly if I have a good grasp on how low value the items
were...so I really don't see why this is a big issue at all.

Of course, having not been here at all, and not frequently in the year 2001, I
may be missing something, but really it seems some are being too
sensitive about
the way the original post was stated, and I'm one of "those" people
who...shall
we say...aren't afraid to speak their minds in such matters.

Basically, peace and love people, save the angst for the good fight, heh.

-Jordali, the "getting adjusted to the current player attitude atmosphere"

-----------------

poster: Dynomas
subject: TP's and sac eq
date: Thu Jun  7 12:06:16 2001

Well, its always nice to eb away for a little bit and have some big
"drama" to come back to here.
If you have to argue with the wizards about something they did to
help us all have a way to spend our
free time... well... I don't know what to say, as I wasn't
potty-trained at gun point as it seems other
players may have been.

While it is encouraging to have a player base interested in their
characters and the dynamics of the mud
it seems those who get bent out of shape need to take a moment and
remember the Wizzes here do this out
of the goodness of their hearts.  One might do well to take a moment
to remember this when considering
the words for their next post.
the words for their next post.
*sigh* its late... anyway, I doubt the wizzes are out to alienate
the players they work to create a fun
place to wile away free time for.  No doubt they get as tired of
this sophomoric whining over very
small issues in the scheme of life.

I for one would like to thank the wizzes for the time and patience
they put forth so that I can have
something to do in my spare time.  Thanks and kudos to you all.

-Dyno

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >couldnt resists...
date: Thu Jun  7 12:47:21 2001

On Thu Jun  7 07:23:57 2001 Hierokliff wrote post #143:
> 'If its to good to be true, its not'
> 1. The admins in here are to nice, its not the first time players have
>    found a bug and used it. Silverbelts, poisonweapons are the most known
>    ones i guess. Old ones but still. When there is no punishments whatsoever
>    when abusing one of these kinds of bugs, players will use em. 
> 
> 2. Before it was ok to use any kind of bugs if you had bug reported them,
>    then it was up to the admins to decide if it was a bug or if it was ok.
>    On this iam not sure if it was really like this or not.
* Any and all bugs should be IMMEDIATELY reported to the staff of Red

   Dragon, with the use of the "bug" command. Exploitation of bugs can make
   the game less enjoyable for everyone. Also the fact that you reported
   the bug, does not mean that you can continue to go ahead and abuse it.

   All bug reports now get a response in news (player.bugs) when they
   are closed, and you as the reporter of the bug will receive mail when
   the bug report is updated by a wizard and when its closed.  You can
   use 'bt' or 'bug_tracker' to view the status of your current bug
   reports.

   Sometime around Feb 2000 we started using the player.bugs news group
   to respond to _all_ bug reports.  The excuse that you didn't know if
   it was truely a bug or not is not valid, if you are unsure check the
   status of the bug or wait for the resonse in player.bugs.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.
> 
> 3. Put in a note in the 'help rules' that 'if its to good to be true, report
>    it or be considered breaking the rules.'
> 
> //Hierokliff
> 
z

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >a lovely happening
date: Thu Jun  7 12:48:13 2001

On Tue Jun  5 01:04:32 2001 Kazulanth wrote post #129:
> Kazulanth [sales]: hrm what do soft leather boots go for? 12dex
> Miciaih [sales]: i will give you 50k kazulanth 
> [sales]: You raise your eyebrow at Miciaih.
> Miciaih tells you: what is the eyebrow for?
> Miciaih tells you: do you not have them or something?/
> You tell Miciaih  (AWAY: 'need to take a shower'): cause the answer I am
> looking for is somewhere over 300k 
> Miciaih tells you: ohh
> You tell Miciaih  (AWAY: 'need to take a shower'): and it gets real old
> when newbies try to buy every piece of eq on the market for whatever
> they've got in their bank accounts
> Kazulanth [sales]: fs: soft leather boots 300k 
> Kazulanth [sales]: fs: blue monks belt 10k 
> Kazulanth [sales]: now that's a little more your speed miciaih 
> Miciaih tells you: for your cocky little self i have alot more than
> that i just offer 50k to peaple that sound like they dont know how
> much something is
> Miciaih [sales]: no thanks i got one already 
> Miciaih [sales]: but i will take it if its still forsale... 
> You tell Miciaih  (AWAY: 'need to take a shower'): for your cocky
> little self, you have 49,000 gold in the bank and 9,975 on hand.
> Kazulanth [sales]: no, apparently i'm too cocky to sell things to
> people like you who know the true market value of all things 
> Miciaih tells you: ask palenon about the 200k it owes me
> Miciaih tells you: you have only logged 1d7hours more than me hot
> stuff i have seen just almost as much stuff as you
> You tell Miciaih  (AWAY: 'need to take a shower'): Gee I guess you
> would be old enough and well informed enough to know that the mud
> age logging system was only put in two months ago.
> Miciaih tells you: two words you pompus prick
> You tell Miciaih  (AWAY: 'need to take a shower'): And that i've been here
> since July 98.
> Miciaih tells you: fuck you
> 
> 
> Word of warning to newbies: Don't assume no one can call your bluff.
> And don't do it to someone that most everyone knows can check your
> score.
> 
Haven't read other followups yet, but I bought a ring of power from
miciaih which implied 
he was old for having it. :P  Payed him 800k for it too, though I
dunno what he spent it 
on if he was down under 60 by this time.

He does talk like a newbie, but I think he's just an ancient player 
come back.(Even if he was newbiesque before he left. ;)

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: need a Win95 pgm
date: Thu Jun  7 22:19:33 2001

I'm looking for a copy of the Windows 95 program "Internet Mail and
News". I need the executable for it if anybody has it.
Either that or if anybody has a working CD-ROM drive they'd like to
ditch I'd be willing to take it :)

-W
feh -WC

-----------------

poster: Jomo
subject: Bugs
date: Fri Jun  8 01:11:20 2001

Just for the record, the TP thing was pretty much common knowledge.
We were talking about it on sales.. talking about it over 
various other channels.. 

True, only one person submitted a bug report.. but it 
wasn't like we were trying to hide anything.

Something like 50 players sacced some shape or form of
crap, probably more.

Also, the "legit" eq seemed to be saccing for more 
and the now famous "shop" eq seemed to be saccing
for 2 or 1...

What were we supposed to expect... on the continuum,
it makes sense that there should be eq at 1 tp / 2 tp.

I'm upset about this not because of the tps.. 
I can make those back and they don't give that much
of an advantage anyway.. but it's the whole 
concept of "You guys suck cuz you cheated"...
Well 1 out of 50 (roughly) across a range of worths
thought this was unreasonable and bug reported it.


Now it turns out it was a bug -- but my argument is
that short of knowing how the guy was supposed to 
work, there was no probable cause to think it
was a bug in the first place.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Bugs
date: Fri Jun  8 01:29:03 2001

> of an advantage anyway.. but it's the whole 
> concept of "You guys suck cuz you cheated"...
> Well 1 out of 50 (roughly) across a range of worths
> thought this was unreasonable and bug reported it.
> 
> 
> Now it turns out it was a bug -- but my argument is
> that short of knowing how the guy was supposed to 
> work, there was no probable cause to think it
> was a bug in the first place.
1,20d
a
Just for the record it was only 27 playesr.
**

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: >>a lovely happening
date: Fri Jun  8 04:22:52 2001

On Thu Jun  7 12:48:13 2001 Pedron wrote post #147:
> On Tue Jun  5 01:04:32 2001 Kazulanth wrote post #129:
> > Kazulanth [sales]: hrm what do soft leather boots go for? 12dex
> > Miciaih [sales]: i will give you 50k kazulanth 
> > [sales]: You raise your eyebrow at Miciaih.
> > Miciaih tells you: what is the eyebrow for?
> > Miciaih tells you: do you not have them or something?/
> > You tell Miciaih  (AWAY: 'need to take a shower'): cause the answer I am
> > looking for is somewhere over 300k 
> > Miciaih tells you: ohh
> > You tell Miciaih  (AWAY: 'need to take a shower'): and it gets real old
> > when newbies try to buy every piece of eq on the market for whatever
> > they've got in their bank accounts
> > Kazulanth [sales]: fs: soft leather boots 300k 
> > Kazulanth [sales]: fs: blue monks belt 10k 
> > Kazulanth [sales]: now that's a little more your speed miciaih 
> > Miciaih tells you: for your cocky little self i have alot more than
> > that i just offer 50k to peaple that sound like they dont know how
> > much something is
> > Miciaih [sales]: no thanks i got one already 
> > Miciaih [sales]: but i will take it if its still forsale... 
> > You tell Miciaih  (AWAY: 'need to take a shower'): for your cocky
> > little self, you have 49,000 gold in the bank and 9,975 on hand.
> > Kazulanth [sales]: no, apparently i'm too cocky to sell things to
> > people like you who know the true market value of all things 
> > Miciaih tells you: ask palenon about the 200k it owes me
> > Miciaih tells you: you have only logged 1d7hours more than me hot
> > stuff i have seen just almost as much stuff as you
> > You tell Miciaih  (AWAY: 'need to take a shower'): Gee I guess you
> > would be old enough and well informed enough to know that the mud
> > age logging system was only put in two months ago.
> > Miciaih tells you: two words you pompus prick
> > You tell Miciaih  (AWAY: 'need to take a shower'): And that i've been here
> > since July 98.
> > Miciaih tells you: fuck you
> > 
> > 
> > Word of warning to newbies: Don't assume no one can call your bluff.
> > And don't do it to someone that most everyone knows can check your
> > score.
> > 
> Haven't read other followups yet, but I bought a ring of power from
> miciaih which implied 
> he was old for having it. :P  Payed him 800k for it too, though I
> dunno what he spent it 
> on if he was down under 60 by this time.
> 
> He does talk like a newbie, but I think he's just an ancient player 
> come back.(Even if he was newbiesque before he left. ;)
He found that Ring of power in a newbie area. someone had dropped
it. he had no clue what it was worth and asked a few players via
tells what it was worth, of which I was one. He is most definately a
newbie. =)

- Tranquil


-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: interesting
date: Fri Jun  8 17:57:08 2001

An interesting page.

http://www.cybergeography.org/atlas/atlas.html

-----------------

poster: Elendor
subject: Cheaters
date: Fri Jun  8 20:42:27 2001

The very fact that this sac eq thing went from one end of the
plaque to another should tell the wizzes that it was not thought
of as a bug, but as another feature

As for being told about major changes, you have just chaged eq settings
from 1-5 to 1-10 and reintroduced the collector, and told us
about it, this to me consitutes the major change being told, the
idea that you changed what could be sacced is hardly a big step to take

If your all having such a big problem with this post what the
colloector can actually
take after all i thought the idea of it bar the tps was for ppl to check 
and see what will sac, exactly what all of those ppl did

Take away the tps if you think its wrong but in this case its your mistake
not ours and we are not cheaters just players using whats in the game

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Cheaters
date: Fri Jun  8 21:19:03 2001

This thing got blown way out of proportion....

My opinion on this, since I am the one that handled it...

I mentioned it on channels that it was closed and why, it was
abused any way you look at it it was abused intentionally or not
it was still abused.

The discussion that followed got out of hand by both players and wizards
on the channels.  The players quick to react that they didnt know
etc etc, they didnt deserve to have their tp's removed etc.
A few wizards quick to say you cheated blah blah.  And I have
to believe that that word 'cheater' was not meant as a blanket
statement for all 27 players.  IMHO there was a group of
players in that 27 that should of none better, or at least
asked, but again that is my opinion.
However that doesnt make it right.

From my point of view the giving of task points for those items
was obviously not intended.  From the players point of view
it could appear that this was a change to help you out.  
However there was no inform post to that respect, the idea
was that the collector woudl continue to take his same type of
stuff not lower his standards.  

The point here is we try very hard to keep you informed good
or bad.  If something suddenly seems 'too good to be true' just ask
via mail or tells (tells are hard we are idle a lot).


Individual points addressed inline...
On Fri Jun  8 20:42:27 2001 Elendor wrote post #155:
> The very fact that this sac eq thing went from one end of the
> plaque to another should tell the wizzes that it was not thought
> of as a bug, but as another feature

This does not convince me too much.. Other than to say that
not many people thought about it to much.  Others to say
I heard it was already reported, so I went ahead and used it anyway
because it hadnt been fixed.  I mentioned it on X channel, so you had
to know about it, etc.  The reasons were varied but you 
get the idea.  Some people knew it was wrong and continued 
to use it (not all of you).

Believe it or not, not all bugs are able to be jumped on
immediately as posted, and I point you to the 'help rules'
paragraph about bugs.

> 
> As for being told about major changes, you have just chaged eq settings
> from 1-5 to 1-10 and reintroduced the collector, and told us
> about it, this to me consitutes the major change being told, the
> idea that you changed what could be sacced is hardly a big step to take

I can give you this one.  But I still go back to 3000 gold for
3 task points and having equipment basically for free in shops, that 
can be given to get task points (not completely free, but cheap)
Maybe I have been playing muds too long, and been on the admin
side too long, but that seems to good to me and would of raised
a red flag with me as a player.
> 
> If your all having such a big problem with this post what the
> colloector can actually
> take after all i thought the idea of it bar the tps was for ppl to check 
> and see what will sac, exactly what all of those ppl did

  I just checked the daemon that we use to do restores that
keeps a name/filename combination for equipment that has
been stored in safes/chests.  There are 1800 pieces of
_unique_ equipment that have been stored in chests, of that
say 2/3'rds are worth tp's (most people dont store cheaper
stuff).  That is still 1200 pieces of equipment not including
the stuff players are carrying around (though I bet thats small
comparatively.).  Do you want the job of keeping that list up to date?
I certainly don't.
> 
> Take away the tps if you think its wrong but in this case its your mistake
> not ours and we are not cheaters just players using whats in the game

As an unnamed wizard said to me, every mistake is our fault.  
This is very complex code written by many many people, that does not
have the testing behind it that most big software projects 
do.  It is inevitable that bugs will be introduced, or that change X
will have undesired consequences due to forgetting that Y was effected
by it, or to not having any idea that 15 layers deep in the mudlib it was.

Who is the first person to see that, the players.  It is not
to much to ask the players to stop and think about things
they are doing.

That argument that you are just using whats in the game doesn't hold
water with me sorry.

We are very leniant here to a fault as Hierokliff likes
to point out.  And when things are clearly borderline as _I_ feel this
was I tend to favor in the direction of the player.
I chose to remove all the tp's that were given for items
that I did not intend to have the collector accept.

As a last statement of a very long winded post, I do not
see it as a problem asking the players to stop and think
about what they are using/doing.  Many admitted after
the fact that they thought it was wrong.

This is my last statement on this subject..


--zif

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: Clan Mercury
date: Sat Jun  9 00:09:45 2001

Clan Mercury is looking for a healer.  Must be worth 30m (or close),
and must be active in RD.  If you fit these qualifications and are
interested, please mudmail me.  -Artea

-----------------

poster: Unix
subject: cool site
date: Sat Jun  9 02:43:34 2001

ok, I think this is one of the cools't site: www.terraserver.com
It is a map, of the U.S.A. from space, in much detail.
I found my house with it : http://terraserver.homeadv
sor.msn.com/image.asp?S=10&T=1&X=2526&Y=22069&Z=18&W=2
Cool eh?
if you care, i can pinpoint my house for you, start on the mittle
right of the map.
go left about 2 inches, it is in that court, thats in a half box of trees.
if you start from the road next to it, its the third house on the top row.
Preaty cool eh? :)

-----------------

poster: Unix
subject: erk, my bad
date: Sat Jun  9 02:49:04 2001

its:
http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=10
T=1&X=2526&Y=22069&Z=18&W=2

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: tp
date: Sat Jun  9 16:22:08 2001

guys give it a rest- there was a bug - it got fixed

end of story jesus

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Crush
subject: skill/spell masteries
date: Sun Jun 10 04:36:08 2001

I keep hearing people refer to skill/spell masteries.  It seems to
be a seperate thing from your percentage you get advancing in your
guild. This is just my impression from listening to others.  Can
someone please post a brief explanation of mastery and how it can be
checked?
Thanks.

Crush

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >skill/spell masteries
date: Sun Jun 10 14:26:20 2001

On Sun Jun 10 04:36:08 2001 Crush wrote post #161:
> I keep hearing people refer to skill/spell masteries.  It seems to
> be a seperate thing from your percentage you get advancing in your
> guild. This is just my impression from listening to others.  Can
> someone please post a brief explanation of mastery and how it can be
> checked?
> Thanks.
> 
> Crush
As far as I can see, you're thinking of guild mastery rather than
skill/spell masteries.
AFAIK:
Skill mastery : a skill which improves the effect of other skills
Guild mastery : your capability within your guild, which determines
the power of your guild item.
Guild rank : Your rank in the guild, determined by a combination of
time spent in the guild and guild mastery.

There is no way to check your guild mastery, AFAIK, nor is there any
way to check which guild skills/spells train it or to what extent
they do so.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>skill/spell masteries
date: Sun Jun 10 14:28:08 2001

On Sun Jun 10 14:26:20 2001 Tahnval wrote post #162:
> On Sun Jun 10 04:36:08 2001 Crush wrote post #161:
> > I keep hearing people refer to skill/spell masteries.  It seems to
> > be a seperate thing from your percentage you get advancing in your
> > guild. This is just my impression from listening to others.  Can
> > someone please post a brief explanation of mastery and how it can be
> > checked?
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > Crush
> As far as I can see, you're thinking of guild mastery rather than
> skill/spell masteries.
> AFAIK:
> Skill mastery : a skill which improves the effect of other skills
> Guild mastery : your capability within your guild, which determines
> the power of your guild item.
> Guild rank : Your rank in the guild, determined by a combination of
> time spent in the guild and guild mastery.
> 
> There is no way to check your guild mastery, AFAIK, nor is there any
> way to check which guild skills/spells train it or to what extent
> they do so.
checking your guild master would be pointless. the numbers
dont mean anything to you.

-----------------

poster: Durin
subject: RE: PuuPpA!
date: Mon Jun 11 08:45:19 2001

I just wanted to see my name on news, and post something highly
important bs, like most  the player base seems to. 

Sooo.. i today found out Koma has THREE NIPPLES!

More news at eleven.

-D-urin3

-----------------

poster: Chrysantha
subject: RDMP
date: Mon Jun 11 22:22:12 2001

I like the idea of RDMP, but on the health tag, it should go off
when your hp, sp, and ep are all full, kinda like the monster tag.

Just my 2 coins.
Arsage

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >RDMP
date: Mon Jun 11 22:26:04 2001

On Mon Jun 11 22:22:12 2001 Chrysantha wrote post #166:
> I like the idea of RDMP, but on the health tag, it should go off
> when your hp, sp, and ep are all full, kinda like the monster tag.
> 
> Just my 2 coins.
> Arsage
Why?  I dont really see any negatives with getting it every heartbeat?

The monster tag goes off only when you are no longer fighting
anything.


-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: party
date: Sun Jun 17 18:30:01 2001

sorry guys who were in the rockin party yest - my cable modem 
died  =(
Jaws

-----------------

poster: Enigma
subject: nationals
date: Mon Jun 18 10:52:09 2001

for those that may be interested i have posted my trip to the magic
nationals at ccgauctionspot.com Enigma

-----------------

poster: Mikul
subject: Jabber
date: Tue Jun 19 23:21:46 2001

Hmm, how to post this :)

Okie, alot of you out there use icq, aim, yahoo messenger service
or even msn instant messenger. Its got to the point, where it
would be perfect to exist on all of them at once, but be only
using one client. Quite a few people have teamed together
to write a multitude of clients covering all OS' in different
forms. Palm, Win, Linux, Cross platform java etc. Some of
the clients might have a few teathing problems, and i suggest it
aint for the light hearted at this time. But for those who
use your im's alot its worth it.

www.jabber.com is the main site, and there is the most robust
client there. But i'd suggest http://www.jabbercentral.org/clients/
And use winjab for windows or gabber for linux. Any other platform
i wouldn't be sure on the best option as i dont use them.

So whats it advantages, well your contacts list (roster) is
stored on the jabber servers and so you can go to any computer
and use the client and pick up your list without problems.
It also has a resource level, which allows you to set a 
higher level if your at work and it will redirect mesg' to
there rather than home when at work.

Anyhow, read the site, get the app and see what you think
i'm not a master at it yes, but if anyone wants a point
in the right direction, just give me a shout. 

Mikul, glad his sys tray is half empty.

-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: >Jabber
date: Thu Jun 21 18:09:00 2001

What if you don't like people?

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: multi armed races
date: Thu Jun 21 21:18:18 2001

i was just wondering why they got taken away awhile ago, i rember
this being explained ebfore but i dont rember the reason.
tanks
sleet

-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: >multi armed races
date: Thu Jun 21 21:19:49 2001

On Thu Jun 21 21:18:18 2001 Sleet wrote post #174:
> i was just wondering why they got taken away awhile ago, i rember
> this being explained ebfore but i dont rember the reason.
> tanks
> sleet
one word 'balance'
nuff said
*/Snoop

-----------------

poster: Elendor
subject: EQ dropped by Shinryu
date: Thu Jun 21 22:23:01 2001

Apparently shinryu dropped the eq he was wearing in cs,

It was not his eq it was mine he was loanin alot of it
, i would appreciate it if anyone who picked it up 
would give it back especially the war armor.

Elendor

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: Me
date: Sat Jun 23 00:10:04 2001

want to say sorry to those I was in party with - 
thunderstorm knocked my power out for a few hours 

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Shinryu
subject: My eq
date: Sat Jun 23 18:07:43 2001

say I ticked
I'm sorry about the other day, I don't know if any of you remember
how a little while ago my brother was watchin me mud, but I guess he
learned the commands or something, so he got on and did that stuff.
I'd appreciate it if whoever has the eq would give it back to
elendor, or me, sicne now I am eqless. I turned off the autologin
trigger so it won't happen again, I'm sorry for any inconvienance

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: me this week
date: Mon Jun 25 15:07:26 2001

My work partner is out all this week,
so I'll be even idler than usual during the day CST.
:P
//moooose

-----------------

poster: Hierokliff
subject: FYI
date: Tue Jun 26 09:02:23 2001

Old gate players that wants to start play in gate again, can do that
and now get some of their old worth back...
Cyas in there.
//Hierokliff 

-----------------

poster: Alisha
subject: Fun fun fun.. ^_^
date: Wed Jun 27 05:08:15 2001

I have decided that tonight I shall start a new game on RD.

We're gonna play Balderdash.

At 12 midnight, EST (USA)_I'll start the game on channel "bdash".
Players with either be in teams (depending) or single, and the
person with the most points by the end of the game (not sure when
that'll be yet) will win 50k gold or so.

Thank you all, hope to see you there to play, the rules will be
explained ten minutes before the start of the game. ^_^

-- Lishie

-----------------

poster: Alisha
subject: Oh yeah...
date: Wed Jun 27 05:10:09 2001

Any questions, send me a tell. That is all. ^_^


-----------------

poster: Baer
subject: whine
date: Wed Jun 27 18:38:45 2001

Some feedback regarding the reduced levelling and training costs:

The only problem we have with costs is the massive level costs at
high levels. Having to make 40m+ to get a level just encourages high
level players to play endlessly killing mindlessly. I'd like to see
level costs capped at something like 20m.

Training can also get expensive, however I dont think the costs here
should have been lowered. The majority of players seem to take races
with high training costs and still manage to train all their
important skills to racial max. The amount of experience needed to
raise your skills could be lower by allowing you to train 1%
increments rather 5%. Then you never have to save 20m to train a
skill from 95-100%, the max is more like 5m for 99-100% (higher for
those with skillmax wishes of course).

Baer

-----------------

poster: Sirk
subject: training cost change
date: Wed Jun 27 19:38:13 2001

just wondering with this major change to game play in that cost of training
is reduced, will a free reinc machine again be placed in cs so that 
everyone can take advantage of this new change as has happend in the past 
when a major change effecting everyone has been made.
thanks

sirk

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >training cost change
date: Wed Jun 27 19:39:20 2001

On Wed Jun 27 19:38:13 2001 Sirk wrote post #185:
> just wondering with this major change to game play in that cost of training
> is reduced, will a free reinc machine again be placed in cs so that 
> everyone can take advantage of this new change as has happend in the past 
> when a major change effecting everyone has been made.
> thanks
> 
> sirk
There will be no free reinc.  Reinc when you are ready, and get hte lowered
costs.

-----------------

poster: Rizzly
subject: Machine in CS
date: Thu Jun 28 00:53:16 2001

I'm just curious as to whether or not the machine in CS is ever
going to be removed... weren't the skill/spell speed wishes taken
out months ago?

-----------------

poster: Alisha
subject: Game...
date: Thu Jun 28 05:12:30 2001

Gonna try again tonight... 50 minutes from RIGHT NOW. Channel is
bdash. Send me a tell if you want to play.


-----------------

poster: Zax
subject: changes
date: Thu Jun 28 17:54:53 2001

uhoh, posting again, oushid, would have been sooner but Tirion only
told me about it today :)

heh, I think the idea is a cool idea.
(assuming I didn't misunderstand when Zif said about max levels?)

Here is what I think will suck about it:
maxlevel=boredom - once you've finished/maxxed something you get
bored (to some degree).
tuning complications - not the easiest thing to tune when you make
BIG changes.
whiners - big (or any) changes means whiners.

Here is what I think will rule about it:
two guilds at once - twice the time to get 'bored' of your reinc.
power gaps - level caps reduce the gaps between highbie/midbie etc.
maxlevel=ultimategoal - some clear direction, less mindless continuance.

Probably more points I could think of if I tried. Basically, not
everyone will like the changes, but probably half the people playing
now wouldn't like the way the mud was 1 or 2 years ago, and before
that. Muds need change, it's good :)

Final thing covers several different posts, people saying mud will
die if it goes on as is, or it will die if it changes, saying about
how xp is too easy to make, how people can do anything if organised,
etcetcetc. I'd like to refer to something I said to Arkangyle quite
some time ago, and that was to try and enjoy it more. Being
organised, gaining more xp and more eq and more and more and more is
cool and all, but if you don't enjoy it, why bother? It's a game
dudes, go out, have fun, when it stops being fun, go find something
else thats fun, don't sit there saying "but it's not fun anymore".

At the end of the day, how many of you who play here can honestly
say "I play here simply because of the mud's design and code". I'd
be surprised if any said yes to that, because mud's are social,
people play for some interaction, if you didn't play for it, you'd
disconnect the modem, play some game by yourself and save on ISP
costs.

feel free to criticise/comment/complain.

over and out

zax

-----------------

poster: Debacle
subject: i'm flying, on a jet plane, i don't know when i'll be back again . . .
date: Fri Jun 29 15:07:13 2001

newayz, i've had a real fun, short time while it lasted here and
just want to thank all of you for such a great mudding experience.
Well I'm off to the east coast, namely Toronto for a month and i
don't think i will be on here for that duration. I guess i'll be
back in a months time, especially for this mud's BDAY!! *wink wink
nudge nudge UNOPOOPING BOOBS* So you guyz are free from all the
shouting and crouch grabbing from me for an entire month, Enjoy!

-----------------

poster: Silverarc
subject: Bug report
date: Sat Jun 30 16:59:53 2001

When I typed wield all, it said Krunch, the adamantium royal hammer:
You are too weak to wield Krunch. Yet, when I checked my inventory,
Krunch wasn't there. What's up with that?

-----------------

poster: Kazulanth
subject: Tuesday the 26th
date: Sat Jun 30 17:34:06 2001

Was there something going on on Tuesday that I missed?

Account number 761809, Red Dragon Terms,  had a total of 41 visitors
last week.
Visitors for last week divided per weekday:
2001-06-22: 1
2001-06-23: 3
2001-06-24: 3
2001-06-25: 9
2001-06-26: 19
2001-06-27: 6
2001-06-28: 0

--kaz

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Bug report
date: Sun Jul  1 02:03:26 2001

On Sat Jun 30 16:59:53 2001 Silverarc wrote post #192:
> When I typed wield all, it said Krunch, the adamantium royal hammer:
> You are too weak to wield Krunch. Yet, when I checked my inventory,
> Krunch wasn't there. What's up with that?
we ahve a bug commadn for a reason, in fact I think you
already reported this.

-----------------

poster: Fox
subject: Goodbye
date: Sun Jul  1 08:10:40 2001

This mud has had it's ups and downs, it was somewhat fun over the
years, but it's time for me to move on, I noticed that more than
just a few really hate me, but it doesn't matter, life goes on
and I regretably say that I will no longer be playing here any
longer.
To the mud-friends that have been loyal, Take care and have 
fun, but notice what real life really means to you, not excaping
into this game like I did...oh well.
Take it easy everyone.

-----------------

poster: Malifix
subject: Grabbing stuff
date: Mon Jul  2 04:55:03 2001

This is a general plea on behalf of mist mages specifically and most
players in general.
I and other mist mages, by the nature of our guild, must leave loot
lying around while we are in mist form.
It is extremely annoying to have players come in and just grab it. 
Just now I lost all my lodestones because someone grabbed them off
the ground.  This is extremely rude and will make the perpetrators
unpopular about as fast as anything will.
Please, please, if you see something lying around --like in the
hunters area where the campfire is--  leave it alone.  Do not pick
it up.  It's not yours.  You didn't earn it.  LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!
Thank you. :)

-----------------

poster: Dram
subject: >Grabbing stuff
date: Mon Jul  2 05:20:45 2001

I suggest you invest some experience in floating disc, sir.

Dram

-----------------

poster: Malifix
subject: >>Grabbing stuff
date: Mon Jul  2 05:23:45 2001

I have floating disc and I use it, but it isn't co-operative enough
to fall at the same time my mist form falls, so there are times when
loot is lying around.  I don't care to waste the sps to solidify and
recast mist form.  It seems to me that common courtesy would be an
easiere solution.

-----------------

poster: Malifix
subject: Floating discs
date: Mon Jul  2 05:26:54 2001

Perhaps a way to put loot on floating disc while in mist form would
be helpful.  :)

-----------------

poster: Skillz
subject: >Grabbing stuff
date: Mon Jul  2 11:59:22 2001

On Mon Jul  2 04:55:03 2001 Malifix wrote post #196:
> This is a general plea on behalf of mist mages specifically and most
> players in general.
> I and other mist mages, by the nature of our guild, must leave loot
> lying around while we are in mist form.
> It is extremely annoying to have players come in and just grab it. 
> Just now I lost all my lodestones because someone grabbed them off
> the ground.  This is extremely rude and will make the perpetrators
> unpopular about as fast as anything will.
> Please, please, if you see something lying around --like in the
> hunters area where the campfire is--  leave it alone.  Do not pick
> it up.  It's not yours.  You didn't earn it.  LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!
> Thank you. :)
Maybe we can add a feature that allows mist mages drop a note or
make a sign that will warn players?

-----------------

poster: Urg
subject: bad bad mood...
date: Mon Jul  2 15:47:11 2001

sorry for ranting at guys on chat last nite....i was in a bitchass
evil mood.....hope noone is too pissed off at me...hmm...
Ben

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: eq
date: Tue Jul  3 19:16:19 2001

looking to start some consistent eq parties from 16:00 - 21:00 rltime
i'll be witch, need everything else, send me a mail if interested
-lu

-----------------

poster: Elendor
subject: Collector
date: Wed Jul  4 01:59:02 2001

I just thought id ask what is goin on with the collector, there are
items that i know for a fact used to sac, and have been sacced
by other ppl that will no longer give tps

Why has it been so harshly tuned up, is this in response to the fact that
ppl have actually been using it or what

btw i am not talking about that shop eq items i am taking about proper
eq items, some as high as +10 to stats and additonal on top
i would like to see it reset to what it was originally.

Elendor

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Collector
date: Wed Jul  4 03:42:25 2001

On Wed Jul  4 01:59:02 2001 Elendor wrote post #203:
> I just thought id ask what is goin on with the collector, there are
> items that i know for a fact used to sac, and have been sacced
> by other ppl that will no longer give tps
> 
> Why has it been so harshly tuned up, is this in response to the fact that
> ppl have actually been using it or what
> 
> btw i am not talking about that shop eq items i am taking about proper
> eq items, some as high as +10 to stats and additonal on top
> i would like to see it reset to what it was originally.
> 
> Elendor
the equipment scale was redone from '5 levels' to 10 levels.

They didnt match the old levels exactly, so some stuff that
used to sac now doesnt.  That is just the way it is.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: splitting characters..
date: Fri Jul  6 22:39:06 2001

Guacamole just summed up the plusses to the 'optional' splitting
of players that we debated a few weeks ago..

Guacamole {eq_tune}: that's the tertiary effect of this split -

  1)  primary is to give ultragigbies something to do
  2)   secondary is to improve the availability of eq roles
  3)  tertiary is to improve the rates of the people 
      partying with the splitted ultragigbies (who are split
      into just highbies.


-----------------

poster: Elendor
subject: Animal Familiars
date: Sat Jul  7 16:24:08 2001

I think theres something wrong with the way they are running
at the moment, although i understand that if you send them away
and the link breaks you lose what they are carring, after all
you have no idea where they have gone, however several times
now i have had a familiars link vanish inbetween moving
through 2 rooms and still they havent dropped the stuff
it all vanished.

Surely if it moveds one room i should be able to go back and
picj up the stuff it dropped

Elendor

-----------------

poster: Ada
subject: Me
date: Sun Jul  8 01:50:13 2001

Hola.

As most of you have been aware, I've been gone an awful long time...
this is because I have entered the portion of my life called
"college". Yes, I'm gone to college officially now. I don't know how
much I'll get to mud, because I can't take my home computer with me,
and the college laptops don't have internet access, and the college
computer lab is inhabited by really scary nerds. 

When I come home for holiday, I'll hop on, and say hi, and wade
through the news. I don't want to say I'm retired, because everyone
who has said they are retired has come back :P

If you have one of my eq sets, or some of my eq, you can keep on
borrowing it... NO SELLING IT OR LOSING IT OR YOU DIE A HORRIBLE
DEATH :)

I'm not going to tell you guys what college I'm going to, because
some of you are really freaky. But I will say that it is a private
school in Michigan, and it has security dogs, so no scaring me to
death at me car (i'm glaring at somebody as I say this).

Wibbles and Wavies,

ada

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Me
date: Sun Jul  8 01:53:54 2001

On Sun Jul  8 01:50:13 2001 Ada wrote post #207:
> Hola.
> 
> As most of you have been aware, I've been gone an awful long time...
> this is because I have entered the portion of my life called
> "college". Yes, I'm gone to college officially now. I don't know how
> much I'll get to mud, because I can't take my home computer with me,
> and the college laptops don't have internet access, and the college
> computer lab is inhabited by really scary nerds. 
> 
Hey, I spent all my time in the computer lab... 


-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: >>Me
date: Sun Jul  8 06:24:15 2001

On Sun Jul  8 01:53:54 2001 Zifnab wrote post #208:
> On Sun Jul  8 01:50:13 2001 Ada wrote post #207:
> > Hola.
> > 
> > As most of you have been aware, I've been gone an awful long time...
> > this is because I have entered the portion of my life called
> > "college". Yes, I'm gone to college officially now. I don't know how
> > much I'll get to mud, because I can't take my home computer with me,
> > and the college laptops don't have internet access, and the college
> > computer lab is inhabited by really scary nerds. 
> > 
> Hey, I spent all my time in the computer lab... 
> 
Does that make u a scary nerb then Zif

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>Me
date: Sun Jul  8 23:45:32 2001

On Sun Jul  8 01:53:54 2001 Zifnab wrote post #208:
> On Sun Jul  8 01:50:13 2001 Ada wrote post #207:
> > Hola.
> > 
> > As most of you have been aware, I've been gone an awful long time...
> > this is because I have entered the portion of my life called
> > "college". Yes, I'm gone to college officially now. I don't know how
> > much I'll get to mud, because I can't take my home computer with me,
> > and the college laptops don't have internet access, and the college
> > computer lab is inhabited by really scary nerds. 
> > 
> Hey, I spent all my time in the computer lab... 
> 
Me thinks it isn't smart to make fun of lab geeks on a mud *ZOT ZOT*

-----------------

poster: Crush
subject: >Me
date: Tue Jul 10 04:29:50 2001

On Sun Jul  8 01:50:13 2001 Ada wrote post #207:
> Hola.
> 
> As most of you have been aware, I've been gone an awful long time...
> this is because I have entered the portion of my life called
> "college". Yes, I'm gone to college officially now. I don't know how
> much I'll get to mud, because I can't take my home computer with me,
> and the college laptops don't have internet access, and the college
> computer lab is inhabited by really scary nerds. 
> 
> When I come home for holiday, I'll hop on, and say hi, and wade
> through the news. I don't want to say I'm retired, because everyone
> who has said they are retired has come back :P
> 
> If you have one of my eq sets, or some of my eq, you can keep on
> borrowing it... NO SELLING IT OR LOSING IT OR YOU DIE A HORRIBLE
> DEATH :)
> 
> I'm not going to tell you guys what college I'm going to, because
> some of you are really freaky. But I will say that it is a private
> school in Michigan, and it has security dogs, so no scaring me to
> death at me car (i'm glaring at somebody as I say this).
> 
> Wibbles and Wavies,
> 
> ada

I'm in charge of that lab.  What does that make me?

Crush the Network Admin.

-----------------

poster: Guest-1
subject: Tektor
date: Wed Jul 11 21:31:09 2001

Its been fun been but time to move on to other things. Tried one
last shot at something didn't work out soo I'm off. Wavies all.

-----------------

poster: Shinryu
subject: loot
date: Wed Jul 11 21:32:24 2001

eat corpse
Tektor
Come on man, don't leave, we'll miss you, you can earn your worth
back or whatever it is that made you leave

-----------------

poster: Cleo
subject: Clans
date: Fri Jul 13 01:18:24 2001

I´m leader of the clan BraveHeart and we´re looking for a decent
woodsman at decent worth that can do  adecent rate AND tank stuff.
Would be good if that person had nice eq=P
and a worth of over 250mill, 400mill if possible.

Mail or Mudmail me whenever if intrested.
Thanks

-----------------

poster: Urg
subject: urg gets bitchy
date: Tue Jul 17 02:27:31 2001

dont lend money to sirc or let him "pay you back"

git owes me 200k and still tries to buy other eq, so im guessing hes
just pissing around, just a little warning

-----------------

poster: Uncle
subject: So long, thanks for all the fish
date: Tue Jul 17 06:45:46 2001

Going away from mudding for awhile, don't know when I will 
be back or for how long.....

Thanks for all the memories

Uncle LArry


-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: eq
date: Tue Jul 17 23:27:27 2001

Personally I like this idea in place..

1. It helps suck up the high lvls of gold out there
2. Its more realistic
3. It will make the eq done more often
4. From what you have said eq mobs will get easier soon

I think its a good thing..

My only concern is the speed of decay which  I wont have feedback
on until I test the new stuff out, PS Im pretty sure I know where
the blacksmith is

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Ada
subject: my floating eqs
date: Wed Jul 18 02:18:28 2001

This only concerns people who have some of my borrowed eq. This also
concerns people who have borrowed my eq and borrowed it out to
someone else.

Please repair it once in a while, as you see fit.

You may now return to your mindless exping.

ada

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: New Eq Changes
date: Wed Jul 18 04:03:47 2001

Ok, let me just start by saying this is just my two cents worth.
First off, I agree it is a good idea to do something with eq.  They
are right, it is done very seldom compared to exp.
I only have one problem with the new changes, they really penalize
smaller players
For example, Im probably consider by most either a newbie or a lowbie.
I have never been asked to be in an eq, nor have I ever gotten in
one by politely asking.
This for me, and others like me, rules out dicing the eq you want/need.
The only alternative is to then, buy the eq.
Which means lots of gold runs.
This in my opinion, will just take time away from doing exp, and
turn that same time into golding, and not eq...atleast for the
smaller players.
I frankly do not see how this would be, "fair" to the lower/middle
players, which would mean that they would be spending most of their
time golding....which is a slow process for me, atleast compared to
doing exp trying to get big enough to do eq parties
So I guess my main point is whether or not there will be some other
way, besides doing mad gold and buying the eq, for lower/middle
players to get Eq
Just my two cents
Bluemoon

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >New Eq Changes
date: Wed Jul 18 04:41:33 2001

On Wed Jul 18 04:03:47 2001 Bluemoon wrote post #220:
> Ok, let me just start by saying this is just my two cents worth.
> First off, I agree it is a good idea to do something with eq.  They
> are right, it is done very seldom compared to exp.
> I only have one problem with the new changes, they really penalize
> smaller players
> For example, Im probably consider by most either a newbie or a lowbie.
> I have never been asked to be in an eq, nor have I ever gotten in
> one by politely asking.
> This for me, and others like me, rules out dicing the eq you want/need.
> The only alternative is to then, buy the eq.
> Which means lots of gold runs.
> This in my opinion, will just take time away from doing exp, and
> turn that same time into golding, and not eq...atleast for the
> smaller players.
> I frankly do not see how this would be, "fair" to the lower/middle
> players, which would mean that they would be spending most of their
> time golding....which is a slow process for me, atleast compared to
> doing exp trying to get big enough to do eq parties
> So I guess my main point is whether or not there will be some other
> way, besides doing mad gold and buying the eq, for lower/middle
> players to get Eq
> Just my two cents
> Bluemoon
Don't goldrun for top eqs anymore- pickup the smaller stuffs.  As
for eq parties, I've managed to wing 
lowbie eq parties with an animist for healer, a single level 40-ish 
blaster, and a pair of level 15-20 tiny 
blasters. :)  We got stuff like calvin and the 
wicked witch and frith and some white stole guys iirc.
The tiny blasters got killed like every other minute for area attacks, 
but there were enough avs on to keep em up.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.  You can buy the lower stages of 
eq while you gold and run heavy exp now, then 
stepup to higher stages as you go.

*pedron prolly have to rereinc back to mini eq/exp tank so he can
keep up his own 
eq sets now* :P

My big nickel,
pedron

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>New Eq Changes
date: Wed Jul 18 06:16:56 2001

just a note about lowbies and eq.  maybe with the changes to eq
monsters level 30 players and below can do some eq

-----------------

poster: Wik
subject: Aphrodite's Birthday
date: Wed Jul 18 08:26:10 2001

Everyone should tell Aphrodite happy birthday (if'n you all believe
in dat stuph)
and give her a big BIG B I G hug.

Happy birthday aphro
        love wik

-----------------

poster: Autolycus
subject: This new eq ting
date: Wed Jul 18 10:32:39 2001

Hello all, I figured I might as well add my opinion on this matter.

I think first off, it's a good change to make it more real.
But I have a question...
I have noticed, that many people like to idle around here...just sit
in town while away from their computers
Now the eq only decays when worn, so simply take it off while idling right?
But being that im working towards the assassin guild, I took a
gander through guild tree and noticed the steal skill
Would not idling with no eq on leave u vulnerable to this skill?
This forces people to either have their eq decay, or risk losing it,
unnless they have a castle to store it in, which all of us dont.
Just wondering if this was thought of before
Autolycus
The soon to be, King of Thieves

-----------------

poster: Autolycus
subject: last post
date: Wed Jul 18 10:34:15 2001

I apologize, I did not have all the info, and did not know steal
skill was disabled.
My apologies
Auto

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >last post
date: Wed Jul 18 12:43:23 2001

On Wed Jul 18 10:34:15 2001 Autolycus wrote post #225:
> I apologize, I did not have all the info, and did not know steal
> skill was disabled.
> My apologies
> Auto
the idea has been brought up twice now, once by a players, and
once by a wiz so it has been thought of, dont know where it
will go.  We tend to not like things that pit player -vs- player.

-----------------

poster: Fezzick
subject: Decay comments 
date: Wed Jul 18 15:45:34 2001

"Eq decays at a steady rate as it is being worn. Being in combat
has no additional effect on eq..."
 
Simply to make it clear and as may have been revealed in a prior post...
 
Does Eq decay _only_ if worn, and not at all if stowed in a safe?
 

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Decay comments 
date: Wed Jul 18 15:53:37 2001

On Wed Jul 18 15:45:34 2001 Fezzick wrote post #227:
> "Eq decays at a steady rate as it is being worn. Being in combat
> has no additional effect on eq..."
>  
> Simply to make it clear and as may have been revealed in a prior post...
>  
> Does Eq decay _only_ if worn, and not at all if stowed in a safe?
>  
Yes I believe this has been stated clearly a few times.

it only decays when _WORN or WIELDED_

If you carry it with you not worn, nothing happens, if you put it in 
a safe nothing happens, if you quit for 3 years and come back
nothing happens.

-----------------

poster: Bahgtru
subject: Keys
date: Wed Jul 18 16:12:23 2001

I've asked on newbie a fair bit, but I still haven't found the answer:

Where do I get keys for a locked door in my castle?

- Bahgtru is confused

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Keys
date: Wed Jul 18 16:13:19 2001

On Wed Jul 18 16:12:23 2001 Bahgtru wrote post #229:
> I've asked on newbie a fair bit, but I still haven't found the answer:
> 
> Where do I get keys for a locked door in my castle?
> 
> - Bahgtru is confused
one of the shops in the castle area
which someone told you.

Graxon [newbie]: 2e, s, e from the entrance i think


-----------------

poster: Bahgtru
subject: >>Keys
date: Wed Jul 18 16:16:32 2001

Slint says: I can sell you these items:
1) A New Castle
2) An Extra Room
3) A Castle Door
4) A Chest
5) A Safe
6) A Portal
7) A Trophy Case
8) An animist Orb

Don't see anything about keys... that's the shop Graxon was
referring to... is there another?

-----------------

poster: Bahgtru
subject: >>>Keys
date: Wed Jul 18 16:24:40 2001

Sorry bout the last few posts, I got it now

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>last post
date: Wed Jul 18 19:40:30 2001

On Wed Jul 18 12:43:23 2001 Zifnab wrote post #226:
> On Wed Jul 18 10:34:15 2001 Autolycus wrote post #225:
> > I apologize, I did not have all the info, and did not know steal
> > skill was disabled.
> > My apologies
> > Auto
> the idea has been brought up twice now, once by a players, and
> once by a wiz so it has been thought of, dont know where it
> will go.  We tend to not like things that pit player -vs- player.
I want steal skill.  Everyone can safe their eq or idle in adv guild. :)

*pedron made some megs with pickpocket 106% once* :)

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>>last post
date: Wed Jul 18 19:42:45 2001

On Wed Jul 18 19:40:30 2001 Pedron wrote post #233:
> On Wed Jul 18 12:43:23 2001 Zifnab wrote post #226:
> > On Wed Jul 18 10:34:15 2001 Autolycus wrote post #225:
> > > I apologize, I did not have all the info, and did not know steal
> > > skill was disabled.
> > > My apologies
> > > Auto
> > the idea has been brought up twice now, once by a players, and
> > once by a wiz so it has been thought of, dont know where it
> > will go.  We tend to not like things that pit player -vs- player.
> I want steal skill.  Everyone can safe their eq or idle in adv guild. :)
> 
> *pedron made some megs with pickpocket 106% once* :)
Oh yeah, newbies could be immune to it as they are immune to 
pickpocket, and that skill for awareness of stuff around you 
would be more popular maybe. :)

*pedron got caught out by that skill on a few 106% pickpocket attempts*

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: eq
date: Wed Jul 18 20:22:03 2001

interested in a list of people interested in doing eq at 15:00
rltime until 20:00 rltime

mail me if interested

-----------------

poster: Rancor
subject: Eq changes
date: Wed Jul 18 20:28:28 2001

This is my two cents on the whole deal, not bitching just saying it
as I see it take it for what it is worth.
The way I see all this eq changes the wizards make the eq more
accesable and easier to do.  Both by lowering training cost and such
and making th monsies easier.
That in turn made the market flood with eq or at least I have seen
alot more of it around that it used to be.  
Now the eq decays.  I don't know if it is this way but it seems as
though it is a way to control how much eq is out there at any given
time by slowly making it wear down and break.  
I don't mind the eq decay system but it seems as though it is a
change to fix something that has been changed in the first place.
I don't mind the eq decay system but it seems as though it is a
change to fix something that has been changed in the first place.


AS for people doing eq I have yet to see one of these so called
newbie/lowbie eq parties in fact I only see the same 10-15 people
doing eq all the time.  So as of right now until I see otherwise I
do not see eq being any easier for us newbies/lowbies to do.  
  
  
Last thing is a question if eq decays then I assume guild eq does as
well.  At least it should cause why would one item decay and another
not.  The guild item dacay and ya get another one only the stats are
reset?  Don't know just a question. 

Thanks
Rancor

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Eq changes
date: Wed Jul 18 21:02:13 2001

On Wed Jul 18 20:28:28 2001 Rancor wrote post #236:
> This is my two cents on the whole deal, not bitching just saying it
> as I see it take it for what it is worth.
> The way I see all this eq changes the wizards make the eq more
> accesable and easier to do.  Both by lowering training cost and such
> and making th monsies easier.
> That in turn made the market flood with eq or at least I have seen
> alot more of it around that it used to be.  
> Now the eq decays.  I don't know if it is this way but it seems as
> though it is a way to control how much eq is out there at any given
> time by slowly making it wear down and break.  
> I don't mind the eq decay system but it seems as though it is a
> change to fix something that has been changed in the first place.
> I don't mind the eq decay system but it seems as though it is a
> change to fix something that has been changed in the first place.

 The decay piece has been talked about for years.  The problem has
always been that it takes _WAY TOO LONG_ to get equipment (IMHO)
and thus 'regetting' that equipment just blows.

We are trying to reach a point where it doesnt blow so much to go
get equipment it shoudl be fun, not a chore that everyone dreads
doing,.

Otherwise what is the point?

The decay was not added ad an afterthought because all of a sudden
equipment is being done, it was added for the reeasons mentioned 
in the help 'eq_decay' documnet.

If sear/tiamat start dying 2 times a wek I personally do not see that
as a problem as long as their is some way to get
that equipment out of the game.

We are not goign to screw you guys, we are trying to make the game
fun and a cahllenge


Had more to write but im lagging really badly, will follow up later.
*
> 
> 
> AS for people doing eq I have yet to see one of these so called
> newbie/lowbie eq parties in fact I only see the same 10-15 people
> doing eq all the time.  So as of right now until I see otherwise I
> do not see eq being any easier for us newbies/lowbies to do.  
>   
>   
> Last thing is a question if eq decays then I assume guild eq does as
> well.  At least it should cause why would one item decay and another
> not.  The guild item dacay and ya get another one only the stats are
> reset?  Don't know just a question. 
> 
> Thanks
> Rancor

-----------------

poster: Elendor
subject: new eq stuff
date: Wed Jul 18 21:21:02 2001

I understand the need for makin the game more fun, however i disagree
that ppl see/saw eq as a chore, most the ppl i have done eq with did 
it is because they wanted the challenge and fun of doing something far
harder then they normally do with something given at the end you want
, or the hope you dice it :)
I personally think that when you make eq easier it takes away the challenge 
and so alot of the fun in doin it, eq will now just become a chore as
you will have to do it whether you want to or not since it decays 

Yes i know that it will take time to decay depending on wearing but since
ppl tend to wear there eq and are unlikely to want the additional hassle
of keepin on takin it off/puttin it on just because your walkin somewhere
and so dont actually need to wear it till you fight you will likely get
eq that decays at a high rate.

Id also like to point out that the ones who will be worst hit by this are
the ppl who need the most help, newbies/lowbies, i have never seen a eq 
party made up of these ppl and since most eq parties end up made of ppl who
you know fairly well on the mud,  they are unlikely to ever happen, this
means to get eq they will just have to do gold, and doin gold runs is the 
most boring thing on the mud.

Another thing is that every time i had ever seen eq decay
brought up in news, discussion before it was always dumped on so the 
reason for it comin in escapes me.

Elendor

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: eq...
date: Wed Jul 18 21:34:52 2001

dammit quit whining that 'i haven't ever seen midbies do eq, so it
cant be done'
get off your ass and at least try

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: tiamat
date: Wed Jul 18 21:47:35 2001

would like to try her this evening starting at 0100 rltime.
i think we have most roles covered but there should be unlimited
room for blasters >500m w/ >1k hp. i prefer nether/gb/sorcs

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >eq...
date: Wed Jul 18 21:57:43 2001

On Wed Jul 18 21:34:52 2001 Magneto wrote post #239:
> dammit quit whining that 'i haven't ever seen midbies do eq, so it
> cant be done'
> get off your ass and at least try
lu proved it can be done.  its motivation most of the time.

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >Eq changes
date: Wed Jul 18 21:59:22 2001

On Wed Jul 18 20:28:28 2001 Rancor wrote post #236:
> This is my two cents on the whole deal, not bitching just saying it
> as I see it take it for what it is worth.
> The way I see all this eq changes the wizards make the eq more
> accesable and easier to do.  Both by lowering training cost and such
> and making th monsies easier.
> That in turn made the market flood with eq or at least I have seen
> alot more of it around that it used to be.  
> Now the eq decays.  I don't know if it is this way but it seems as
> though it is a way to control how much eq is out there at any given
> time by slowly making it wear down and break.  
> I don't mind the eq decay system but it seems as though it is a
> change to fix something that has been changed in the first place.
> I don't mind the eq decay system but it seems as though it is a
> change to fix something that has been changed in the first place.
> 
> 
> AS for people doing eq I have yet to see one of these so called
> newbie/lowbie eq parties in fact I only see the same 10-15 people
> doing eq all the time.  So as of right now until I see otherwise I
> do not see eq being any easier for us newbies/lowbies to do.  
>   
>   
> Last thing is a question if eq decays then I assume guild eq does as
> well.  At least it should cause why would one item decay and another
> not.  The guild item dacay and ya get another one only the stats are
> reset?  Don't know just a question. 
> 
> Thanks
> Rancor
the markets not flooded though, its just been restored back to
normal status were it used to be, there were a couple months in the
last year were eq was not happening at all, thats only why it seems
flooded.

-----------------

poster: Erec
subject: Eq Changes
date: Wed Jul 18 22:04:41 2001

I only have one coment on the eq. changes, and it is only a slight
criticism of the _reason_ for them (I think the change is a good
thing, and this from someone who (despite recent appearances)
will probably have less time for eq. than most of his calliper) -
It seems the main reason for doing this is because people find
eq. fun, and exp boring.  Well, I don't particularly find _either_ 
one boring, but they are _both_ fairly monotonous (eq. slightly
less so, since you die a lot more - death always breaks the 
monotony somehow).  However, good quest are _not_ monotonous,
nor boring in the least, so I have to say ... More quests!

That being said, most areas with decent equipment are (rightfully)
fairly quest-like, so this is only a somewhat valid comment.

       -Erec

-----------------

poster: Urg
subject: Eq stuff . . .
date: Wed Jul 18 22:19:30 2001

' SPS FULL!
well i just wanna say that im pretty much in favour of just trying
to give the mud a bit of a kick in a new direction (well its
definately sparked up the news boards a bit!) and anything that
could direct eq parties that have always seemed very exclusivist
(?!) and out of reach a bit further down the table has to be
worthwhile. not sure if this has been discussed or not but im just
wondering if it would be worth considering a way to make more mobs
that are exclusively lowbie type eq (as in make more of a diff
between lownie and highbie eq) and make them able ot be killed by
lowbie parties . . . 
hrm, just my tuppence . . . 
Urg

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: long response to Elendor
date: Wed Jul 18 22:32:40 2001

>>I understand the need for makin the game more fun, however i disagree
>>that ppl see/saw eq as a chore, most the ppl i have done eq with did
>>it is because they wanted the challenge and fun of doing something far
>>harder then they normally do with something given at the end you want
>>, or the hope you dice it :)
>>

Noone is saying that it wont be challenging, or become
challenging in other ways.. Sitting and beating on a 
monster for 4 hours to kill him is not my idea of 
challenging. (see erecs post) 

You want a challenge, there are 2 equipment monsters that 
have not been killed. No matter how easy/hard the monster is, 
its a challenge to get to them.

>>
>>I personally think that when you make eq easier it takes away the challenge
>>and so alot of the fun in doin it, eq will now just become a chore as
>>you will have to do it whether you want to or not since it decays
>>

We have stated over and over that we do not expect it 
to become a chore, equipment will last a _long_ time I am 
not sure how much clearer we can make that.

>>Yes i know that it will take time to decay depending on wearing but since
>>ppl tend to wear there eq and are unlikely to want the additional hassle
>>of keepin on takin it off/puttin it on just because your walkin somewhere
>>and so dont actually need to wear it till you fight you will likely get
>>eq that decays at a high rate.
>>

You have no idea how long its going to last or how often 
you need to replace anything, did you see marvin say yesterday 
that he estimated that Uno's equipment would last _250 weeks_ 
(with repair).  Marvin had reset the condition of Uno's equipment 
and not told him so he acted in the normal manner
of wearing it all the time and not removing it. I 
do not think that you need to worry about wearing 
your equipment while walking.

>>Id also like to point out that the ones who will be worst hit by this are
>>the ppl who need the most help, newbies/lowbies, i have never seen a eq
>>party made up of these ppl and since most eq parties end up made of ppl who
>>you know fairly well on the mud,  they are unlikely to ever happen, this
>>means to get eq they will just have to do gold, and doin gold runs is the
>>.most boring thing on the mud.
>>

The biggest reason for no parties with them is the 
lack of organization and them not realizing how to do parties.

No they do not have to just do gold.  I have already 
started adding monsters to help the newbies get their 
own equipment, and I am also going to get the builders 
to help put some small 'party' type monsters in the 
areas that a small party of newbies can deal with and 
again get their own equipment.  If equipment becomes 
'easier' to get, the highbies dump there stuff to the 
midbies etc etc etc it should go right down the chain.

Isn't it in the best interest of the mud to get those 
newbies familiar with the mud, help them party, teach 
them the intracacies of how the mud works, the cultural 
rules of how parties work here.  Rather than berating 
them when they reach Level X because they don't know 
what they are doing. You have all seen the crap flying 
on channels about how player X is stupid and doesn't 
know anything.  Perhaps if some people spent less time 
berating those players, and tried to help them learn
instead the entire mud would be better off. Ok I am 
off my soapbox now.
 
>>
>>Another thing is that every time i had ever seen eq decay
>>brought up in news, discussion before it was always dumped on so the
>>reason for it comin in escapes me.

Every idea posted in news gets dumped on, those that 
dislike it speak the loudest.  There are people 
in support of it, as well as against it.

Let me remind you that people dumped on the exp cost 
cuts, didnt like the multiple bodies idea (which I must 
add the 2 people that have used it love it), 
and certainly people dont like the decay idea, 
but some do.

>>
>>Elendor

In closing we are commited to doing this and will make 
changes accordingly I do not believe in the X hours for 
equipment theory, and I also do not believe in screwing 
you over and making you lose all your equipment.

Many people have already threatened to leave before 
even attempting to try the changes out.  Those threats 
used to bother me but after 5 years you quickly learn 
that those that are going to leave will do so anyway 
over something else. 

If changes need to be made they will be made, I think 
the 20% cut in training costs over the last few months 
should make that obvious. If gold becomes the next
'problem' we can fix that as well and in fact I 
already have made adjustments.  

I would also like to say that we are not making these decisions 
in isolation, there are players like you helping with the decisions.

Zifnab


-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: Response To Magneto, Elendor
date: Wed Jul 18 22:54:17 2001

Hi all, me again.  Denim credited me for the first rant, so Im done
ranting, just repsonding.
Magneto, I agree with you that lowbie eq is never tried.
However, my clan members and a few others tried some lower end
stuff...white stole I believe.  This is all the farther we got,
because we died within 3 rounds.
Now of course you die on eq mobs...everyone does.
But for us to go back and continue to fight, we must be rev'd, only
problem is, at lowbie level, all a healer gets is res...,now there
were no avatars on at this time iirc, and I had to res my party.
This was fine except for one problem, unless res is very highly
trained, it can botch
which it did, pissing off people and making them not want to try
anymore for fear of losing levels and xp.
If there were some way to res people withouut fear of losing the
level, lowbies could die, be ressed or whatever by their smaller
healer, and get right back to killing the mob
Now this was pretty much a low lowbie party, no one was near avatar yet....
Some people probably think that mob was too big, but what's the
point of doing eq that is basically useless.


Elendor, I think you are right so far, in order for a lowbie to get
fair eq, he's gotta gold and buy it, which is frankly the most
boring thing in the mud, even more boring for me than the "boring
farm chainkill" parties

Btw, I would not see eq as a chore, if I could get into an eq party,
I'd be one happy mudder.
Bluemoon

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >Response To Magneto, Elendor
date: Thu Jul 19 00:01:39 2001

in my day all we had was res, and most people couldnt even afford to
train navigators to teleport around.  Guess what we did eq.  We did
eq every night.  walking up hill both ways, with bare feet in 10
feet of snow on razor sharp rocks

but anyway it isnt gonna be easy but things will get balanced out.  

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: ummm
date: Thu Jul 19 01:01:47 2001

sorry for the inconvenience. start of tia party delayed
until 2-2:30 rltime

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >eq...
date: Thu Jul 19 02:01:00 2001

On Wed Jul 18 21:34:52 2001 Magneto wrote post #239:
> dammit quit whining that 'i haven't ever seen midbies do eq, so it
> cant be done'
> get off your ass and at least try
I agree with this one.  I suck and I've tanked stuff up to 1.2m worth
(yeah so woggle and mantisman leader aren't the greatest at their worth 
and chara kicked my a$$ with superblasts. :).

The lowest level people I ever had in my eq parties who managed to be useful 
were squee and someone else level 15 at the time.  II had tigerwolf
druid healing, and 
I can't remember for the life of me who the level 40-something cool
blaster was.
We killed a few decent guys- witch, calvin, frith, white priests, stuff like 
that and got a nice 10 pieces or so for the 5 of us.
Hell I remember me and wagro trying to kill quark ourselves though that 
bombed out bigtime after half an hour of trying. ;>  I've seen
lowbie eq monsters drop 
to parties as small as 4-5 people level 25-45, so I know 
little folks can wing some of the little eqs at least.
Just need the right guild combinations and focussed skill/spell training for 
relevant stuff..

Done my ramble. :)

-pedron

-----------------

poster: Navratil
subject: eq
date: Thu Jul 19 04:51:00 2001

my two cents. this all sounds like simple economics. if you wanna
grip about the eq changes, think before you do. with any big change
like this theres gonna be a backlash.. so for a month maybe the mud
WILL be excessive gold runs for the lower people.. but like zif
said, eq cant help but to trickle down.. after a while, i'd be
willing to bet that newbies/lowbies will be better off.. they'll be
able to probably have their own monsies to kill, and im sure that
with the decay, they'll be able to afford much better stuff.. just
like the trickle down economics that bush was so crazy about.(i
think bush). either way, imho, if , to you, it feels like everyones
getting screwed, just give it some time. its not like wizzes wont
change it back if theres some horrible problem. anyway, just my
talking.
-nav

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >eq
date: Thu Jul 19 06:27:26 2001

On Thu Jul 19 04:51:00 2001 Navratil wrote post #250:
> my two cents. this all sounds like simple economics. if you wanna
> grip about the eq changes, think before you do. with any big change
> like this theres gonna be a backlash.. so for a month maybe the mud
> WILL be excessive gold runs for the lower people.. but like zif
> said, eq cant help but to trickle down.. after a while, i'd be
> willing to bet that newbies/lowbies will be better off.. they'll be
> able to probably have their own monsies to kill, and im sure that
> with the decay, they'll be able to afford much better stuff.. just
> like the trickle down economics that bush was so crazy about.(i
> think bush). either way, imho, if , to you, it feels like everyones
> getting screwed, just give it some time. its not like wizzes wont
> change it back if theres some horrible problem. anyway, just my
> talking.
> -nav
I think there is also the possiblilty of good eq selling relatively
cheaply because its been patched up a lot.  I'm thinking that maybe
a piece that goes for, say, 2Mgp new might go for, say 1Mgp when it
can only be patched up to a damaged range around the middle

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: ummm
date: Thu Jul 19 06:46:09 2001

We made Tia our bitch
eheheheh
YUO WRITE LIEK A RETARD

USE TEH KEYBOARD NEXT TIEM TO TYPE AND MAYBE ILL UNDARSTAND YUO AND
REPLY BUT UNTIL THEN GO DIG A DITCH AND BURRY YUORSELF IN TEH DITCH
AND LIGHT THE DITCH ON FIRE because I dont haev enough tiem to
figare out yuor nonsense words, cakeass

-----------------

poster: Biorn
subject: >ummm
date: Thu Jul 19 06:50:31 2001

On Thu Jul 19 06:46:09 2001 Uno wrote post #252:
> We made Tia our bitch
> eheheheh
> YUO WRITE LIEK A RETARD
> 
> USE TEH KEYBOARD NEXT TIEM TO TYPE AND MAYBE ILL UNDARSTAND YUO AND
> REPLY BUT UNTIL THEN GO DIG A DITCH AND BURRY YUORSELF IN TEH DITCH
> AND LIGHT THE DITCH ON FIRE because I dont haev enough tiem to
> figare out yuor nonsense words, cakeass

If yuo thinks I cant spell mayeb yuo should remembar teh fact that I types
vary fast becuse my fingars are possesed by lightning and POWARS OF HAX0RS
from teh futare


-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: >>ummm
date: Thu Jul 19 06:52:19 2001

On Thu Jul 19 06:50:31 2001 Biorn wrote post #253:
> On Thu Jul 19 06:46:09 2001 Uno wrote post #252:
> > We made Tia our bitch
> > eheheheh
> > YUO WRITE LIEK A RETARD
> > 
> > USE TEH KEYBOARD NEXT TIEM TO TYPE AND MAYBE ILL UNDARSTAND YUO AND
> > REPLY BUT UNTIL THEN GO DIG A DITCH AND BURRY YUORSELF IN TEH DITCH
> > AND LIGHT THE DITCH ON FIRE because I dont haev enough tiem to
> > figare out yuor nonsense words, cakeass
> 
> If yuo thinks I cant spell mayeb yuo should remembar teh fact that I types
> vary fast becuse my fingars are possesed by lightning and POWARS OF HAX0RS
> from teh futare
> 
WEBMASTAR OF DONKEYMANSEXLOVE.COM: "oh good, Hitmikey enjoys my siet"

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: spam
date: Thu Jul 19 06:58:12 2001

I'm leaving for Glacier Ntl Park 7/20-7/31
sooooooo... see yall on the flip side,
unless i get eaten by bears... http://www.areaparks.com/glacier/
that's where i'm gunna be
bears bears bears bearsbears bearsbears bearsbears bearsbears bearsbears bears


-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: newbies and eq
date: Thu Jul 19 07:03:06 2001

First off, it is repair costs, not replacement costs that
should be the issue. I can't repeat myself enough that the
eq wearing out is almost too much of a non-issue at this
point, as long as you keep your eq in good condition.
Repair costs, aye, there's the rub.
To be totally honest, one of the goals that I personally had in
mind was to make it extremly difficult for lowbies to afford
top end eq. Repair costs on top eq is therefore rather steep
for many low players. So if Joe Lowbie is finding it difficult
to repair his Blackmon eq, I personally feel that this change
is doing its job.
Now if newbies start to have trouble affording their newbie
eq, then the cost formula will have to change. It took me
roughly 5 seconds to come up with that formula, so it would not
be a shock if it needed tuning. And it will get tuned, if
necessary.

--M

-----------------

poster: Apathy
subject: >spam
date: Thu Jul 19 07:03:36 2001

On Thu Jul 19 06:58:12 2001 Uno wrote post #255:
> I'm leaving for Glacier Ntl Park 7/20-7/31
> sooooooo... see yall on the flip side,
> unless i get eaten by bears... http://www.areaparks.com/glacier/
> that's where i'm gunna be
> bears bears bears bearsbears bearsbears bearsbears bearsbears bearsbears
bears
> 

Glacier rules.  Have fun!

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >newbies and eq
date: Thu Jul 19 07:06:10 2001

I will be happy to take the eq (and repair costs) from
lowbies/newbies having trouble with their Blackmon/Hag stuffs.

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>newbies and eq
date: Thu Jul 19 07:07:32 2001

On Thu Jul 19 07:06:10 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #258:
> I will be happy to take the eq (and repair costs) from
> lowbies/newbies having trouble with their Blackmon/Hag stuffs.
And ark can sell you some fine amulets of wisdom and the like 
for only half what your blackmon pieces cost you! ;>

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >eq...
date: Thu Jul 19 09:22:16 2001

fuck, i put together a party fill of midbies and we tore the shit
outta mobs, and damnit it was fun

midbies can do eq, just neeed to put some time into it

also, remember, i wanna do eq 15:00-20:00 rltime, lemme know if
interested peoples!!

-lu

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: 2 things
date: Thu Jul 19 09:35:23 2001

first off, when reading my post i think i made it sound like i'm the
only one that helped put midbie eq together, i'm not..had lotsa of
help in that department, didecated blasters/healers/harmers/others
who helped out lots, dedicated the time and reinc costs to help out,
Wagro, Rodo, Smee, Waz, Trigon, Jomo, Kjara, Lostego, Helphyre,
Elendor if i missed you, kick my ass next time i'm on, it's 3:30 and
i'm tired as fuck 

and 2nd, for the 15:00-20:00 eq (9am-2pm EST), i'm looking for
anyone who has the worth for the guild
all over the plaque too, if you can be helpful your in, need tank
and healers real bad atm ;)


im passing out now cause my farts are smelly
-lu

-----------------

poster: Durin
subject: >2 things
date: Thu Jul 19 09:48:21 2001

On Thu Jul 19 09:35:23 2001 Lu wrote post #261:
> first off, when reading my post i think i made it sound like i'm the
> only one that helped put midbie eq together, i'm not..had lotsa of
> help in that department, didecated blasters/healers/harmers/others
> who helped out lots, dedicated the time and reinc costs to help out,
> Wagro, Rodo, Smee, Waz, Trigon, Jomo, Kjara, Lostego, Helphyre,
> Elendor if i missed you, kick my ass next time i'm on, it's 3:30 and
> i'm tired as fuck 
> 
> and 2nd, for the 15:00-20:00 eq (9am-2pm EST), i'm looking for
> anyone who has the worth for the guild
> all over the plaque too, if you can be helpful your in, need tank
> and healers real bad atm ;)
> 
> 
> im passing out now cause my farts are smelly
> -lu

The last time i was playing here on a more regular basis (a year
ago?) a party consisting of players likes you have listed there,
would most certainly NOT been called amidbie party.

Don't know how much things have been changing in eq-mob field, but
its not a wonder your killed eq mobs with such a rate. The few ultra
eq monsters have allways needed a party consisting of mostly from
top20 players, but i wouldnt be surprised if you could kill 90% of
the eqmobs in game with that party. 

I would like to see players from lets say under worth 300-400m form
a party and then hear the results. Bet you had a great eqparty, but
dont call it a midbie party 8).

-Durin

-----------------

poster: Energystar
subject: >>2 things
date: Thu Jul 19 16:18:15 2001

On Thu Jul 19 09:48:21 2001 Durin wrote post #262:
> On Thu Jul 19 09:35:23 2001 Lu wrote post #261:
> > first off, when reading my post i think i made it sound like i'm the
> > only one that helped put midbie eq together, i'm not..had lotsa of
> > help in that department, didecated blasters/healers/harmers/others
> > who helped out lots, dedicated the time and reinc costs to help out,
> > Wagro, Rodo, Smee, Waz, Trigon, Jomo, Kjara, Lostego, Helphyre,
> > Elendor if i missed you, kick my ass next time i'm on, it's 3:30 and
> > i'm tired as fuck 
> > 
> > and 2nd, for the 15:00-20:00 eq (9am-2pm EST), i'm looking for
> > anyone who has the worth for the guild
> > all over the plaque too, if you can be helpful your in, need tank
> > and healers real bad atm ;)
> > 
> > 
> > im passing out now cause my farts are smelly
> > -lu
> 
> The last time i was playing here on a more regular basis (a year
> ago?) a party consisting of players likes you have listed there,
> would most certainly NOT been called amidbie party.
> 
> Don't know how much things have been changing in eq-mob field, but
> its not a wonder your killed eq mobs with such a rate. The few ultra
> eq monsters have allways needed a party consisting of mostly from
> top20 players, but i wouldnt be surprised if you could kill 90% of
> the eqmobs in game with that party. 
> 
> I would like to see players from lets say under worth 300-400m form
> a party and then hear the results. Bet you had a great eqparty, but
> dont call it a midbie party 8).
> 
> -Durin
At the time lu was tank of those parties, everyone on his list was
alot lower in worth. I don't think he's talking about the more
recent parties he's been in.

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >>2 things
date: Thu Jul 19 16:37:22 2001

On Thu Jul 19 09:48:21 2001 Durin wrote post #262:
> On Thu Jul 19 09:35:23 2001 Lu wrote post #261:
> > first off, when reading my post i think i made it sound like i'm the
> > only one that helped put midbie eq together, i'm not..had lotsa of
> > help in that department, didecated blasters/healers/harmers/others
> > who helped out lots, dedicated the time and reinc costs to help out,
> > Wagro, Rodo, Smee, Waz, Trigon, Jomo, Kjara, Lostego, Helphyre,
> > Elendor if i missed you, kick my ass next time i'm on, it's 3:30 and
> > i'm tired as fuck 
> > 
> > and 2nd, for the 15:00-20:00 eq (9am-2pm EST), i'm looking for
> > anyone who has the worth for the guild
> > all over the plaque too, if you can be helpful your in, need tank
> > and healers real bad atm ;)
> > 
> > 
> > im passing out now cause my farts are smelly
> > -lu
> 
> The last time i was playing here on a more regular basis (a year
> ago?) a party consisting of players likes you have listed there,
> would most certainly NOT been called amidbie party.
> 
> Don't know how much things have been changing in eq-mob field, but
> its not a wonder your killed eq mobs with such a rate. The few ultra
> eq monsters have allways needed a party consisting of mostly from
> top20 players, but i wouldnt be surprised if you could kill 90% of
> the eqmobs in game with that party. 
> 
> I would like to see players from lets say under worth 300-400m form
> a party and then hear the results. Bet you had a great eqparty, but
> dont call it a midbie party 8).
> 
> -Durin

Lu's group he listed is the range most people I know consider as a
midbie.  With the recent changes to the mud's cost structures (and
tweaks to midbie evokers) this worth range is much more capable of
forming together successfully than in the past.  Prior to both of
these changes, a midbie level party was restricted mainly to eq mobs
considered lowbie in size.

I'd also like to note that the cost changes have an added benefit to
new or low worth players.  Since you now gain more power per exp you
get, you are more capable of gaining exp faster at lower worths. 
This effect causes a geometric rather than linear change in how fast
players are capable of doing exp to gain the worth of middle or high
level player calibre.

-----------------

poster: Kazulanth
subject: >>>2 things
date: Thu Jul 19 18:07:26 2001

On Thu Jul 19 16:37:22 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #264:
>I'd also like to note that the cost changes have an added benefit to
>new or low worth players.  Since you now gain more power per exp you
>get, you are more capable of gaining exp faster at lower worths. 
>This effect causes a geometric rather than linear change in how fast
>players are capable of doing exp to gain the worth of middle or high
>level player calibre.

I'd like to note that I just reinced at a tax of 4.5m, and didn't
train two or three useless spells I'd trained before, and got six
and a half more levels, from the lowered spell/skill training cost
and level cost.

Life is good.

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>eq...
date: Thu Jul 19 18:19:37 2001

On Thu Jul 19 09:22:16 2001 Lu wrote post #260:
> fuck, i put together a party fill of midbies and we tore the shit
> outta mobs, and damnit it was fun
> 
> midbies can do eq, just neeed to put some time into it
> 
> also, remember, i wanna do eq 15:00-20:00 rltime, lemme know if
> interested peoples!!
> 
> -lu
nods.. people expecting to get good stuff in 20-60 minutes ticked me off. ;>
And those darn parents- they should go away and let their 
kids stay up all hours or skip school to finish the eq parties they're in!! :)

-pedron spam

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: traceroute
date: Thu Jul 19 20:27:49 2001

Here's what I got after mud dropped me and didn't let me reconnect..
don't think it was an american thing this time. :)

rac3:~: traceroute dark.x.dtu.dk 3000
traceroute to dark.x.dtu.dk (130.225.92.246), 30 hops max, 3000 byte packets
 1  Vlan10.css-core-r1.net.umd.edu (128.8.10.252)  1.005 ms  0.871
ms  0.835 ms
 2  gi10-0-0.csc0gw.net.umd.edu (129.2.1.223)  0.984 ms  0.650 ms  0.706 ms
 3  umcp-wash.maxgigapop.net (206.196.177.49)  0.578 ms  0.531 ms  0.548 ms
 4  wash-fiber-abilene.maxgigapip.net (206.196.177.106)  0.979 ms 
1.172 ms  0.990 ms
 5  nycm-wash.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.46)  5.468 ms  5.494 ms  5.569 ms
 6  193.10.68.77 (193.10.68.77)  5.815 ms  5.735 ms  5.569 ms
 7  sw-gw.nordu.net (193.10.252.185)  105.572 ms  105.569 ms  105.462 ms
 8  s-gw.nordu.net (193.10.252.130)  102.966 ms  102.782 ms  102.654 ms
 9  dk-gw2.nordu.net (193.10.68.38)  113.821 ms  115.259 ms  113.943 ms
10  Lyngby-2.forskningsnettet.dk (193.10.68.62)  113.899 ms  113.928
ms  114.031 ms
11  lyngby1.icbackbones.darenet.dk (130.225.242.1)  111.162 ms 
111.027 ms  111.081 ms
12  * * *
...
30  * * *
rac3:~: 

I cut out 13-29, but it was just the * * * you see on 12 and 30.  My
traceroute crashed into 
something at the ...dk end of stuff. :P
Maybe admins call those guys up and tell them the monkeys aren't
doing a good job 
and the people should be rehired. :)

-pedron spam

-----------------

poster: Rancor
subject: Eq party
date: Thu Jul 19 22:42:56 2001

Hello all I am looking to set up an eq party for early next week.  I
am thinking of tuesday 9:30-12pm Central standard time
I am looking for people who are intrested in joining.  I need a
decent size tank, two healers(at least one with rev), grapper, and
blasters of sorts.
Anyone that can be useful is welcome(any highbies that would like to
grace us with thier presence it would be aprecated:-).)
Mudmail me of catch me online sometime if you want to join.  Hope
too see you in the party.
Thanks
Rancor
say  TOCK 

-----------------

poster: Rancor
subject: Eq party
date: Thu Jul 19 23:00:58 2001

Sorry need to clarify something my eq party that is forming is for
this comming tuesday at 9:30pm-12pm cst
Thanks
say  TOCK 
Rancor

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: eq
date: Fri Jul 20 01:29:37 2001

I did eq as a lowbie, and even as a newbie.  

Mind you the first thing I ever did in  a eq party that was better 
than what I had already bought myself was Gangreal, and I was a level 40
warrior at the time, had I think 3 healers, and abj, bard, and 4 or
5 40-50 ish blasters

Newbie eq - you must stick to the low end mobs for this - and ad
there arent many of them - this is something I know myself as a
builder Im workin
on fixin - I have ideas for many low end quests and low end eq..
as for lowbies it just takes organization of the right guilds 
and not settings sights on stuff too big.


Jaws

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: >>2 things
date: Fri Jul 20 01:37:24 2001

On Thu Jul 19 09:48:21 2001 Durin wrote post #262:
> On Thu Jul 19 09:35:23 2001 Lu wrote post #261:
> > first off, when reading my post i think i made it sound like i'm the
> > only one that helped put midbie eq together, i'm not..had lotsa of
> > help in that department, didecated blasters/healers/harmers/others
> > who helped out lots, dedicated the time and reinc costs to help out,
> > Wagro, Rodo, Smee, Waz, Trigon, Jomo, Kjara, Lostego, Helphyre,
> > Elendor if i missed you, kick my ass next time i'm on, it's 3:30 and
> > i'm tired as fuck 
> > 
> > and 2nd, for the 15:00-20:00 eq (9am-2pm EST), i'm looking for
> > anyone who has the worth for the guild
> > all over the plaque too, if you can be helpful your in, need tank
> > and healers real bad atm ;)
> > 
> > 
> > im passing out now cause my farts are smelly
> > -lu
> 
> The last time i was playing here on a more regular basis (a year
> ago?) a party consisting of players likes you have listed there,
> would most certainly NOT been called amidbie party.
> 
> Don't know how much things have been changing in eq-mob field, but
> its not a wonder your killed eq mobs with such a rate. The few ultra
> eq monsters have allways needed a party consisting of mostly from
> top20 players, but i wouldnt be surprised if you could kill 90% of
> the eqmobs in game with that party. 
> 
> I would like to see players from lets say under worth 300-400m form
> a party and then hear the results. Bet you had a great eqparty, but
> dont call it a midbie party 8).
> 
> -Durin

Umm, no offence intended durin (and other 'old' players - read: 3
years+ mud age), but from what I can see, the average 'midbie' is
worth about 500m - 1m now; unless you would refer to everyone worth
over 600m to be refered to as highbie. Maybe way back when, but
times have changed since the almost 2 years ago I started here
(lowbie topped out at 50m, midbie topped at 300m etc.)

- Tranquil remembers the semi-old days


-----------------

poster: Energystar
subject: >Eq party
date: Fri Jul 20 02:19:53 2001

On Thu Jul 19 23:00:58 2001 Rancor wrote post #269:
> Sorry need to clarify something my eq party that is forming is for
> this comming tuesday at 9:30pm-12pm cst
> Thanks
> say  TOCK 
> Rancor
You realize that's a 14.5 hour party, right?
You may want to try again with the times.

-----------------

poster: Rancor
subject: eq party
date: Fri Jul 20 04:26:32 2001

ahh enrgy star is actually wrong depending upon the way you look at
it.  12pm can also be 12 am and if you use common sense which I
believe you obviously did not you would realize that it is only a 2
and a half hour party from 9:30pm-12 and I am still looking for all
who are interested lowbies midbies perferably but if any highbie
wants to help out and join it is glady accepted.
Thanks
Ranc

-----------------

poster: Apathy
subject: >eq party
date: Fri Jul 20 04:52:22 2001

On Fri Jul 20 04:26:32 2001 Rancor wrote post #273:
> ahh enrgy star is actually wrong depending upon the way you look at
> it.  12pm can also be 12 am and if you use common sense which I
> believe you obviously did not you would realize that it is only a 2
> and a half hour party from 9:30pm-12 and I am still looking for all
> who are interested lowbies midbies perferably but if any highbie
> wants to help out and join it is glady accepted.
> Thanks
> Ranc

What are you talking about? 12pm and 12am are two totally different
times! Obviously, it is much more common-sensical to assume that
this is intended to be a 9 1/2 hour party lasting from 12pm to
9:30pm, and you merely got the times backward.

-Apathy

-----------------

poster: Rancor
subject: eqparty
date: Fri Jul 20 06:25:11 2001

I am still looking for blasters and 2 healers( at least one with
rev) for my eq party on tuesday night at 9:30pm cst
right now I have smee trunks, nightmare, and athena (maybe occult)on
the list. Please mudmail me if interested.  
Thanks 
Rancor

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>eq party
date: Fri Jul 20 09:18:30 2001

actually, i thought it was supposed to be a 84 hr party starting
9:30 tuesday and ending sometime over the weekend

-lu

-----------------

poster: Kaos
subject: >>eq party
date: Fri Jul 20 12:39:49 2001

On Fri Jul 20 04:52:22 2001 Apathy wrote post #274:
> On Fri Jul 20 04:26:32 2001 Rancor wrote post #273:
> > ahh enrgy star is actually wrong depending upon the way you look at
> > it.  12pm can also be 12 am and if you use common sense which I
> > believe you obviously did not you would realize that it is only a 2
> > and a half hour party from 9:30pm-12 and I am still looking for all
> > who are interested lowbies midbies perferably but if any highbie
> > wants to help out and join it is glady accepted.
> > Thanks
> > Ranc
> 
> What are you talking about? 12pm and 12am are two totally different
> times! Obviously, it is much more common-sensical to assume that
> this is intended to be a 9 1/2 hour party lasting from 12pm to
> 9:30pm, and you merely got the times backward.
> 
> -Apathy
You silly people with your 12 hour clock. See, if you were sensible
to use 24h clock like the rest of the world, this would never be
a problem. Same goes with those silly british measures you stone-aged
people still refuse to give up.

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: A few comments about eq decay
date: Sat Jul 21 00:43:49 2001

I think that the recent spate of eq parties forming (or, at least,
people attempting to form eq parties) shows that the eq decay thing
appears to be stimulating eq partying.

One idea I had, which seems to be possible to implement quite easily
if my reading of inform posts is correct, would be to have a small
amount of indestructable eq, i.e. eq which does *not* decay.  This
eq would be relatively low in terms of power, of course (a plausible
in-game explanation could be that the magic which prevents it
decaying conflicts with other magic to some extent, thus making it
impossible to enchant the eq with powerful bonuses).  I think this
could add an interesting
additional factor into eq - do you choose lower-power eq which does
not decay or higher-power eq which does?

Also, I have heard rumours that castles are no longer supported. 
With the eq decay, I would be likely to start using my castle again,
to store eq I'm not using and, at a later date, store spare eq to
replace broken items.  Is the rumour correct?

-----------------

poster: Kazulanth
subject: >A few comments about eq decay
date: Sat Jul 21 01:09:31 2001

On Sat Jul 21 00:43:49 2001 Tahnval wrote post #278:
> I think that the recent spate of eq parties forming (or, at least,
> people attempting to form eq parties) shows that the eq decay thing
> appears to be stimulating eq partying.
> 
> One idea I had, which seems to be possible to implement quite easily
> if my reading of inform posts is correct, would be to have a small
> amount of indestructable eq, i.e. eq which does *not* decay.  This
> eq would be relatively low in terms of power, of course (a plausible
> in-game explanation could be that the magic which prevents it
> decaying conflicts with other magic to some extent, thus making it
> impossible to enchant the eq with powerful bonuses).  I think this
> could add an interesting
> additional factor into eq - do you choose lower-power eq which does
> not decay or higher-power eq which does?
> 
> Also, I have heard rumours that castles are no longer supported. 
> With the eq decay, I would be likely to start using my castle again,
> to store eq I'm not using and, at a later date, store spare eq to
> replace broken items.  Is the rumour correct?

I don't think that the non-decaying eq will happen, seeing as how
people are prepared to pay so much more for a few extra stats that
they wouldn't mind repairing the higher eq.

Also, I'd like to know what you mean by castles no longer being
'supported'. That sounds like bull.

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >>A few comments about eq decay
date: Sat Jul 21 01:33:06 2001

On Sat Jul 21 01:09:31 2001 Kazulanth wrote post #279:
> On Sat Jul 21 00:43:49 2001 Tahnval wrote post #278:
> > I think that the recent spate of eq parties forming (or, at least,
> > people attempting to form eq parties) shows that the eq decay thing
> > appears to be stimulating eq partying.
> > 
> > One idea I had, which seems to be possible to implement quite easily
> > if my reading of inform posts is correct, would be to have a small
> > amount of indestructable eq, i.e. eq which does *not* decay.  This
> > eq would be relatively low in terms of power, of course (a plausible
> > in-game explanation could be that the magic which prevents it
> > decaying conflicts with other magic to some extent, thus making it
> > impossible to enchant the eq with powerful bonuses).  I think this
> > could add an interesting
> > additional factor into eq - do you choose lower-power eq which does
> > not decay or higher-power eq which does?
> > 
> > Also, I have heard rumours that castles are no longer supported. 
> > With the eq decay, I would be likely to start using my castle again,
> > to store eq I'm not using and, at a later date, store spare eq to
> > replace broken items.  Is the rumour correct?
> 
> I don't think that the non-decaying eq will happen, seeing as how
> people are prepared to pay so much more for a few extra stats that
> they wouldn't mind repairing the higher eq.
> 
> Also, I'd like to know what you mean by castles no longer being
> 'supported'. That sounds like bull.
Rumours often are.  I did use the word twice, right up there.

-----------------

poster: Rancor
subject: Filling last few slots
date: Sat Jul 21 07:12:52 2001

Last post by me regarding this but the eq party that has formed for
tuesday night at 9:30pm cst is looking for a few more blasters and a
healer with rev.
Mudmail me if interested.
Thanks
Ranc

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: recent posts
date: Sun Jul 22 18:24:49 2001

There have been discussions about the guilds.. There is however
differant view points as with everything, the basic ideas 
at this point seem to be

making all guilds have some option at doing equipment..
spurring the economy into action so that equipment can be bought/
sold to those 'non equipment' guilds.

Personally I think that we could do some work on the guilds
to make them useful in some manner, but that would probably 
result in making other guilds not needed, so that is an
option that cannot be taken lightly.

Anyway the thought has been discussed a lot, and it not being
forgotten, just need to see what way the mud goes from here
really, is equipment going to get done, and sold, or are
people going to hoard it.

If they do hoard it, do we try and encourage it to be sold?

Quite a few questions up in the air. Like I said about, I kind
of want to sit and watch and see how the mud goes for a few
weeks.


-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: my eq list
date: Sun Jul 22 18:37:14 2001

Due to the new eq list that is on the Red Dragon website, which
doesn't cover highbie eq, and Kaos's newer eq list, which does have
highbie eq, I won't make the effort to update my eq list. Haven't
had the time anyways.
I'll probably take them down sometime in the near future and just
put up the links to Kaos's list & a link to the Red Dragon page (w/
dirs to the eq list).

I've created 3 lists from scratch over the past few years (yes, I've
been doing this for something like 3 years), and Kaos has created a
fourth new list now, so it's probably about time somebody took some
of the burden off of our shoulders :)

In place of this, I might try and find something new to add to my eq
list... I'll try and get the other stuff updated, such as info on
guild eq, race leadership items, etc.

Still might add some info on areas similar to what HK has on his
page as well, maybe give a few maps to newbie/lowbie areas to help
out a bit (don't expect to see hidden rooms or anything of that
sort).

-WildChild

-----------------

poster: Lasher
subject: Eq decay.
date: Mon Jul 23 15:17:13 2001

Couple of observations:

1. Eq only decaying when worn seems like it will discourage the
'casual player' from playing at all. I guess the mud isnt
really aimed at people who play once or twice a month 
though :)

2. Yes, eq decay has been discussed for years. I don't recall ever 
seeing anything but negative feedback on the idea during those
years though. Shrug.


-----------------

poster: Kaos
subject: >Eq decay.
date: Mon Jul 23 16:15:09 2001

Lasher:
> 1. Eq only decaying when worn seems like it will discourage the
> 'casual player' from playing at all. I guess the mud isnt
> really aimed at people who play once or twice a month 
> though :)

How so? If you just play now and then, you really don't have to
worry about the decay at all. Decay will definately hurt those
players doing 8 hour xp parties each day, though I have heard
about players that wear eq only when regenning in xp parties,
that's funny :)

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>Eq decay.
date: Mon Jul 23 17:14:54 2001

On Mon Jul 23 16:15:09 2001 Kaos wrote post #285:
> Lasher:
> > 1. Eq only decaying when worn seems like it will discourage the
> > 'casual player' from playing at all. I guess the mud isnt
> > really aimed at people who play once or twice a month 
> > though :)
> 
> How so? If you just play now and then, you really don't have to
> worry about the decay at all. Decay will definately hurt those
> players doing 8 hour xp parties each day, though I have heard
> about players that wear eq only when regenning in xp parties,
> that's funny :)
I have to agree, i dont see how it hurts the casual player
at all?

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>>Eq decay.
date: Mon Jul 23 17:20:31 2001

> > How so? If you just play now and then, you really don't have to
> > worry about the decay at all. Decay will definately hurt those
> > players doing 8 hour xp parties each day, though I have heard
> > about players that wear eq only when regenning in xp parties,
> > that's funny :)
> I have to agree, i dont see how it hurts the casual player
> at all?

Was thinking about this, and I think if you couple the fact that
we lifted the party limit, reduced training costs, are trying to make
equipment parties more accessible to everyone, that we are really 
helping the casual player a lot more than the player that spends 8 hours 
a day doing exp/equipment.


-----------------

poster: Lasher
subject: >>>Eq decay.
date: Mon Jul 23 17:41:45 2001

Well sooner or later the eq will wear out and someone
who only plays every now and then isnt going to be able to do 
more eq. No big deal.

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>>>Eq decay.
date: Mon Jul 23 17:46:46 2001

if you dont play often your eq will last forever.  Well as long as
you dont log in and idle for 8 hours a day with your eq on.

-----------------

poster: Lasher
subject: >>>>>Eq decay.
date: Mon Jul 23 17:52:40 2001


Well it appears my first point was incorrect, based on
decay rates (although I expect them to start increasing over the next few
months, but that is just speculation on my part).
 
On the second point though, I still don't recall anything other than
negative feedback on eq decay whenever it was discussed in the past. A 
couple of people were for it, most were vehemently against it. Not
being sarcastic, but I guess
my opinion doesn't matter, I don't really play anymore anyway. I despise EQ
decay with a passion, it was one of the first questions I asked the
day I first played this mud. FWIW.


-----------------

poster: Apathy
subject: >Eq decay.
date: Mon Jul 23 18:50:25 2001

On Mon Jul 23 15:17:13 2001 Lasher wrote post #284:
> Couple of observations:
> 
> 1. Eq only decaying when worn seems like it will discourage the
> 'casual player' from playing at all. I guess the mud isnt
> really aimed at people who play once or twice a month 
> though :)

Nah, I've been planning to reinc mist mage anyway. ;)

-Apathy

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >>>>Eq decay.
date: Mon Jul 23 19:18:00 2001

On Mon Jul 23 17:41:45 2001 Lasher wrote post #288:
> Well sooner or later the eq will wear out and someone
> who only plays every now and then isnt going to be able to do 
> more eq. No big deal.
Yes..but for a casual player, the eq won't wear out for years.

-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: >>>>>>Eq decay.
date: Mon Jul 23 20:36:47 2001

Most of the reasons given that people were against decay do not
apply to the current eq decay situation. Eq decaying even while
chested, eq losing stats, having to get a new set every month, etc.
The solution we have implemented avoids as many of those issues as
possible, while still putting a restriction on eq.
If we do not this restriction, we simply can not make eq parties more
accessible and more fun. And that is our entire goal.

I realize that people do not like any form of eq decay. Frankly, I
don't like it either. Who would? But if it makes it possible for the
game to be more fun in the long run, then I think it is worth it.

I don't think it is reasonable or fair to judge an entire mud based
on a particular check or balance. It all balances out in the end.
And personally, I think the more complex and detailed a game is,
the better. If we all played tic-tac-toe for our exp, I don't think
many would stay very long.

--Marvin
On Mon Jul 23 17:52:40 2001 Lasher wrote post #290:

> Well it appears my first point was incorrect, based on
> decay rates (although I expect them to start increasing over the next few
> months, but that is just speculation on my part).
>  
> On the second point though, I still don't recall anything other than
> negative feedback on eq decay whenever it was discussed in the past. A 
> couple of people were for it, most were vehemently against it. Not
> being sarcastic, but I guess
> my opinion doesn't matter, I don't really play anymore anyway. I despise EQ
> decay with a passion, it was one of the first questions I asked the
> day I first played this mud. FWIW.
> 

Most o~e
On Mon Jul 23 17:52:40 2001 Lasher wrote post #290:
> Well it appears my first point was incorrect, based on
> decay rates (although I expect them to start increasing over the next few
> months, but that is just speculation on my part).
>  
> On the second point though, I still don't recall anything other than
> negative feedback on eq decay whenever it was discussed in the past. A 
> couple of people were for it, most were vehemently against it. Not
> being sarcastic, but I guess
> my opinion doesn't matter, I don't really play anymore anyway. I despise EQ
> decay with a passion, it was one of the first questions I asked the
> day I first played this mud. FWIW.
> 

-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: >>Eq decay.
date: Mon Jul 23 20:38:02 2001

On Mon Jul 23 18:50:25 2001 Apathy wrote post #291:
> On Mon Jul 23 15:17:13 2001 Lasher wrote post #284:
> > Couple of observations:
> > 
> > 1. Eq only decaying when worn seems like it will discourage the
> > 'casual player' from playing at all. I guess the mud isnt
> > really aimed at people who play once or twice a month 
> > though :)
> 
> Nah, I've been planning to reinc mist mage anyway. ;)
> 
> -Apathy

I really dont know what you are talking about.
Eq wears out in X amount of playing time, and that playing time is
the same for everyone whether it is spread out over a year or twenty.

--Marvin

-----------------

poster: Chrono
subject: eq decay
date: Mon Jul 23 21:11:48 2001

this is just my opinion,

i say dont worry about the eq decay, so far its not bad at all
sure it sucks that you have to get eq fixed, but most of the
bickering, sounds like its coming from laziness
why bitch, after all this is the best mud...
the wizzes must be doing something right.

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: >traceroute
date: Mon Jul 23 22:02:59 2001

On Thu Jul 19 20:27:49 2001 Pedron wrote post #267:
> Here's what I got after mud dropped me and didn't let me reconnect..
> don't think it was an american thing this time. :)
> 
> rac3:~: traceroute dark.x.dtu.dk 3000
> traceroute to dark.x.dtu.dk (130.225.92.246), 30 hops max, 3000 byte packets
>  1  Vlan10.css-core-r1.net.umd.edu (128.8.10.252)  1.005 ms  0.871
> ms  0.835 ms
>  2  gi10-0-0.csc0gw.net.umd.edu (129.2.1.223)  0.984 ms  0.650 ms  0.706 ms
>  3  umcp-wash.maxgigapop.net (206.196.177.49)  0.578 ms  0.531 ms  0.548 ms
>  4  wash-fiber-abilene.maxgigapip.net (206.196.177.106)  0.979 ms 
> 1.172 ms  0.990 ms
>  5  nycm-wash.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.46)  5.468 ms  5.494 ms  5.569 ms
>  6  193.10.68.77 (193.10.68.77)  5.815 ms  5.735 ms  5.569 ms
>  7  sw-gw.nordu.net (193.10.252.185)  105.572 ms  105.569 ms  105.462 ms
>  8  s-gw.nordu.net (193.10.252.130)  102.966 ms  102.782 ms  102.654 ms
>  9  dk-gw2.nordu.net (193.10.68.38)  113.821 ms  115.259 ms  113.943 ms
> 10  Lyngby-2.forskningsnettet.dk (193.10.68.62)  113.899 ms  113.928
> ms  114.031 ms
> 11  lyngby1.icbackbones.darenet.dk (130.225.242.1)  111.162 ms 
> 111.027 ms  111.081 ms
> 12  * * *
> ...
> 30  * * *
> rac3:~: 
> 
> I cut out 13-29, but it was just the * * * you see on 12 and 30.  My
> traceroute crashed into 
> something at the ...dk end of stuff. :P
> Maybe admins call those guys up and tell them the monkeys aren't
> doing a good job 
> and the people should be rehired. :)
> 
> -pedron spam

When the shit hits the fan and the routers start dying, all the admins
can do is exactly the same as you can do: pray to the powers that be
that somebody cares.

Khosan

-----------------

poster: Apathy
subject: >>>Eq decay.
date: Mon Jul 23 22:28:58 2001

On Mon Jul 23 20:38:02 2001 Marvin wrote post #294:
> On Mon Jul 23 18:50:25 2001 Apathy wrote post #291:
> > On Mon Jul 23 15:17:13 2001 Lasher wrote post #284:
> > > Couple of observations:
> > > 
> > > 1. Eq only decaying when worn seems like it will discourage the
> > > 'casual player' from playing at all. I guess the mud isnt
> > > really aimed at people who play once or twice a month 
> > > though :)
> > 
> > Nah, I've been planning to reinc mist mage anyway. ;)
> > 
> > -Apathy
> 
> I really dont know what you are talking about.
> Eq wears out in X amount of playing time, and that playing time is
> the same for everyone whether it is spread out over a year or twenty.
> 
> --Marvin

Actually, the reason I've been planning to go mist mage is that I
sold off my entire set a long time ago.
I really could care less whether that eq decays or not. ;)

-Apathy

-----------------

poster: Kaos
subject: >>>>Eq decay.
date: Mon Jul 23 22:47:15 2001

On Mon Jul 23 22:28:58 2001 Apathy wrote post #297:
> On Mon Jul 23 20:38:02 2001 Marvin wrote post #294:
> > On Mon Jul 23 18:50:25 2001 Apathy wrote post #291:
> > > On Mon Jul 23 15:17:13 2001 Lasher wrote post #284:
> > > > Couple of observations:
> > > > 
> > > > 1. Eq only decaying when worn seems like it will discourage the
> > > > 'casual player' from playing at all. I guess the mud isnt
> > > > really aimed at people who play once or twice a month 
> > > > though :)
> > > 
> > > Nah, I've been planning to reinc mist mage anyway. ;)
> > > 
> > > -Apathy
> > 
> > I really dont know what you are talking about.
> > Eq wears out in X amount of playing time, and that playing time is
> > the same for everyone whether it is spread out over a year or twenty.
> > 
> > --Marvin
> 
> Actually, the reason I've been planning to go mist mage is that I
> sold off my entire set a long time ago.
> I really could care less whether that eq decays or not. ;)
> 
> -Apathy
My ring of the elements was "Like new" so I had to re-reinc nether...

-----------------

poster: Baer
subject: Discussing change
date: Tue Jul 24 14:12:56 2001


Recently there have been a number of changes happening in the mud.
Several times major changes just happen, and an inform or general
post is made stating these changes were after a period of
consultation with players. What I wonder is, with what players? Is
it with these:

eq_tune   : Chemosh, Denim, Dfalt, Dram, Dreadshoot,
            Golte, Graxon, Guacamole, Khosan, Killaaz,
            Krellen, Lu, Magneto, Marvin, Mikul, Myrddin,
            Nyx, Phire, Raivenloth, Sigwald, Sleet,
            Trigon, Waz, Zifnab, Zyz

This is what I am led to believe. This eq_tune group was originally
set up for people who were going to assist with the tuning of
equipment stats. Now it has morphed into something much different.
All the players on this list very rarely post in public boards, nor
do they act as 'players reps' by asking other players their opinion
on game play issues.

After some changes I asked people in this group if they had any idea
these changes were coming. The answer was yes, we were discussing it
for weeks, but we weren't allowed to tell anyone else.

I would put the view that these people are not doing as good a job
as they could of representing the general playerbase, as is shown by
the resistance to change posted in public news groups, and lack of
information the rest of us have about what is really going on. I
don't disagre that the admin here are the ones who set directions
and implement change, but to do so thinking they have consulted the
playerbase is in my opinion, wrong.

So what can be done about it? In the past we had player reps who
(were supposed to) consulted players on these things and fed back
information to wizards. Then there was the proposal to have a rep
from each major clan to talk over issues. I think at the very least
any discussions in news amongst these players can be summarised and
read in a public newsgroup. And these players who write to the
newsgroups can actively start to solicite opinions from other
players rather than keeping their own counsel. It's time to have a
more open forum so admin can truely say they have consulted the
players.

Baer



-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: >Discussing change
date: Tue Jul 24 14:33:24 2001

That is totally ridiculous. When we first started thinking about
changes to make eq more interesting, we publicly asked for anyone
who was interested in discussions about the game. We included
about 90% of the people who bothered to respond into the eq_tune
group, which was only named as such because we this group already
sitting around and was totally inactive, so why bother make another
because the name really didn't matter.

This group was never intended to be a player rep group. It was
merely a group of people who were open to giving their opinion in
a constructive manner. If you wanted to be in this group, you
should have said so when we asked the first time. 

Generally, this group has done its job very well. It gives us a
forum to bounce off our ideas without (excessive) whining and
misinformation.

There is no change that will not be resisted by the playerbase.
None. Nada. This is a known fact of the universe. A group of
clan leaders is not going to change this. Nothing is going to
change this (except maybe an age check at the door, and a full
lobotomy).

If you don't like the current changes, I'm sorry. But that is no
reason to accuse a group of not doing their job, when you were
givin every oportunity to join them, and really have no idea what
their job even is.

Needing a player rep group is a totally different issue, but I
think it should be discussed after the facts are straight.

--Marvin

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: re: Baer
date: Tue Jul 24 14:54:29 2001

I did post to inform that I was looking volunteers from all
ranges of the mud to participate in discussions about the
equipment situation on the mud.  And yes we took just about
everyone that volunteered, not all but a good portion of them, 
and I have added those that have asked that I thought would
have good input (I am sure I missed a few, not intentional, 
and not playing an favortism).

That being said the most recent changes (eq decay and thats
about it, are the only things that havent been debated
in news and beaten to death prior to this point.

I asked for volunteers of players that could have a civil
discussion about things, and not resort to 'That is fucking
stupid' and other name calling actions.

We choose players from a wide range of hte muds population
and started discussing equipment topics.  To open that up
to the entire mud would of meant sifting through the
100's of posts made by a lot of people that really have
no clue about what they were talking about.

In the forum that I decided upon we are able to pretty
much cut right through the crap and get to the points 
we are trying to make, and get a general feel for the 
muds population on how they feel about things.

Sure its not perfect, but IMHO its a lot better than 
opening it up completely we would get no where.

The only other solution I could possibly see is opening
up the news group for reading to people that are interested, 
however again some stuff posted in there has not happened, 
and I really dont want rampant rumors flying around the mud
for stuff we havent done.  Have to think about it for a bit.



-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: whining
date: Tue Jul 24 23:13:08 2001

man My penis is gettin tired of all the whining

get a grip - go have some fun

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: eq tune group
date: Wed Jul 25 02:29:24 2001

"about 90% of the people who bothered to respond into the eq_tune"
... now I feel like shit cus I was among that 10% and I wonder why
:P

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >eq tune group
date: Wed Jul 25 02:55:49 2001

On Wed Jul 25 02:29:24 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #303:
> "about 90% of the people who bothered to respond into the eq_tune"
> ... now I feel like shit cus I was among that 10% and I wonder why
> :P
It was less than 90%

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >>eq tune group
date: Wed Jul 25 04:09:46 2001

On Wed Jul 25 02:55:49 2001 Zifnab wrote post #304:
> On Wed Jul 25 02:29:24 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #303:
> > "about 90% of the people who bothered to respond into the eq_tune"
> > ... now I feel like shit cus I was among that 10% and I wonder why
> > :P
> It was less than 90%

... and yet still, I think (in my opinion) one of the biggest
changes to eq mobs was the lowering of resists/raising hps so
healing wasn't as significant a factors ... was by me through Zyz
and Dfalt.  BTW, Zyz has been very open about suggestions from
outside, slightly contrary to the way it seems from Baer's
perspective.

-----------------

poster: Elendor
subject: Discussing change
date: Wed Jul 25 05:09:22 2001

I have to agree with baer, the ppl in the group seem to, generally be
made up of ppl who havent had alot to say on the mud, now they may
have had stuff to say in private (how would we know) but its hardly
a good cross section, also if it is true they werent supposed to
say anyhting to ppl (and in my case i didnt find that much out
till late in the day then how could they really have any idea of
how the majority of the mud would take things.

Elendor

-----------------

poster: Miciaih
subject: newb equip
date: Wed Jul 25 08:35:27 2001

okay the newbie equipment thin is a great idea but it seems that all
the newbies dont want to wait for results they want results fast and
the dont want little things the expect high end stuff.  so what i
was going to say is its a great idea but it needs the newbies to
help to.

-----------------

poster: Moo
subject: >newb equip
date: Wed Jul 25 08:40:06 2001

On Wed Jul 25 08:35:27 2001 Miciaih wrote post #308:
> okay the newbie equipment thin is a great idea but it seems that all
> the newbies dont want to wait for results they want results fast and
> the dont want little things the expect high end stuff.  so what i
> was going to say is its a great idea but it needs the newbies to
> help to.

The problem with our newbie eq party today was that we spent about
an hour and a half killing a monster that gave an amulet with +3
str, and the only reason we were able to kill it was because we had
outside help.  I think that's just a little excessive for almost
pointless newbie eq.

-----------------

poster: Apathy
subject: >>newb equip
date: Wed Jul 25 08:45:42 2001

On Wed Jul 25 08:40:06 2001 Moo wrote post #309:
> On Wed Jul 25 08:35:27 2001 Miciaih wrote post #308:
> > okay the newbie equipment thin is a great idea but it seems that all
> > the newbies dont want to wait for results they want results fast and
> > the dont want little things the expect high end stuff.  so what i
> > was going to say is its a great idea but it needs the newbies to
> > help to.
> 
> The problem with our newbie eq party today was that we spent about
> an hour and a half killing a monster that gave an amulet with +3
> str, and the only reason we were able to kill it was because we had
> outside help.  I think that's just a little excessive for almost
> pointless newbie eq.

That's a bit exaggerated. I was in that party with my secondary, and
we eventually would have killed that monsie without recruiting a
level 40-something harmer. Our main problem was simply lack of
blasters--we were mostly figs and clerics.

Along those lines, I like the attempts to cater eq more to newbies,
but I think they're missing an important point. A lot of our newbies
are very impatient (which is often why they're still newbies), and
when you expose them to something that seems like it's going to take
forever, they get anxious and start hiring bigger players to come
and blast the monsies into oblivion for them. The only way to really
avoid that is to put all the newbie eq monsies in newbie-only areas,
and then just hope that the newbies have the patience to actually
kill the monsies.

My two asses,
Apathy

-----------------

poster: Navratil
subject: ticks
date: Wed Jul 25 09:10:59 2001

about that tick timer stuff.. the easiest way is to do what i do..
just have someone in your party make a tick trigger.. so when they
tick they say tick. preferably the healer or a non attacking
person.. then you just see how long it is before you tick after
that. its always the same and 99 percent of the time, you can just
count it manually. its all good.

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >ticks
date: Wed Jul 25 09:14:05 2001

On Wed Jul 25 09:10:59 2001 Navratil wrote post #311:
> about that tick timer stuff.. the easiest way is to do what i do..
> just have someone in your party make a tick trigger.. so when they
> tick they say tick. preferably the healer or a non attacking
> person.. then you just see how long it is before you tick after
> that. its always the same and 99 percent of the time, you can just
> count it manually. its all good.
or you can check the rltime when you tick, and know that you will
tick at that same second the next minute ... or later if there is
mudlag during the interim.

-----------------

poster: Durin
subject: Eq decay
date: Wed Jul 25 09:44:25 2001

Don't recall seeing any discussion about unique/ungettable equipment
and decay. Do they, and if they do, is it nessecary to these
equipments to decay too? It would make sense items like Vorpal's/one
time quests rewards (Za'tea)/etc equipment would have enchantments
that stopped their decay?

It would a be shame to lose some of the famous/unique eq's in game.
Or not to see them at all if they have to be held in chests.

-Durin

-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: changes and who makes decisions
date: Wed Jul 25 10:05:57 2001

One thing that is really lost in all of this is that this game,
while we try whenever possible to cater to your wishes,
is not a democracy. If we took a vote on every change, or made sure
it was passed by your elected representitives, this would be a very 
strange, and I think worthless game.

I think chess is too hard. That darn queen has too much power, and
my opponent always keeps his queen for a lot longer. I think she
should be downgraded. And pawns should give me more exp. I can pick them
off at will, but it doesn't seem to do me much good.
And what about the death penalty. I dont think you should actually
_lose_ when your king is taken, maybe just be given all your pieces 
back, minus a bishop or two. Yeah, that sounds more fair.

Hmm, maybe chess would be a more fun game if I didn't have a say in
the rules.  Obviously whoever made the game knew what they were doing...

Ok, its 3am and I can't sleep, and its a bad time to
be making analogies... but you get my point.

--M

-----------------

poster: Guacamole
subject: >Discussing change
date: Wed Jul 25 16:15:24 2001

On Wed Jul 25 05:09:22 2001 Elendor wrote post #307:
> I have to agree with baer, the ppl in the group seem to, generally be
> made up of ppl who havent had alot to say on the mud, now they may
> have had stuff to say in private (how would we know) but its hardly
> a good cross section, also if it is true they werent supposed to
> say anyhting to ppl (and in my case i didnt find that much out
> till late in the day then how could they really have any idea of
> how the majority of the mud would take things.
> 
> Elendor

Right, it wasn't a cross-section.  It was the people who volunteered
to work with the admin when the admin asked for people who wanted
to provide constructive feedback...

I guess I have to agree with the Admin who posted that people will
complain about everything, no matter what.  You're actually complaining
that the group that wasn't worth your time to participate in was too 
restrictive in its membership.

-G

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>newb equip
date: Wed Jul 25 17:26:06 2001

On Wed Jul 25 08:40:06 2001 Moo wrote post #309:
> On Wed Jul 25 08:35:27 2001 Miciaih wrote post #308:
> > okay the newbie equipment thin is a great idea but it seems that all
> > the newbies dont want to wait for results they want results fast and
> > the dont want little things the expect high end stuff.  so what i
> > was going to say is its a great idea but it needs the newbies to
> > help to.
> 
> The problem with our newbie eq party today was that we spent about
> an hour and a half killing a monster that gave an amulet with +3
> str, and the only reason we were able to kill it was because we had
> outside help.  I think that's just a little excessive for almost
> pointless newbie eq.
Please give me the guilds/levels that were in your party.  

How is any equipment that newbies can get by themselsves pointless?
This is part of the attitude problem the mud has at the moment 
IMHO, Its not top slot, it sucks why bother.

Guess what you have to start somewhere.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>>newb equip
date: Wed Jul 25 17:27:27 2001

> level 40-something harmer. Our main problem was simply lack of
> blasters--we were mostly figs and clerics.
> 
> Along those lines, I like the attempts to cater eq more to newbies,
> but I think they're missing an important point. A lot of our newbies
> are very impatient (which is often why they're still newbies), and
> when you expose them to something that seems like it's going to take
> forever, they get anxious and start hiring bigger players to come
> and blast the monsies into oblivion for them. The only way to really
> avoid that is to put all the newbie eq monsies in newbie-only areas,
> and then just hope that the newbies have the patience to actually
> kill the monsies.
> 
> My two asses,
> Apathy

I for one do not have a problem with higher level players 
helping out newbies if/when/where possible.

I think it is good for the mud, teach them _how_ to party, 
teach them the 'culture' of the mud.  What Is so wrong 
with that?

**


-----------------

poster: Jomo
subject: >changes and who makes decisions
date: Wed Jul 25 17:30:34 2001

On Wed Jul 25 10:05:57 2001 Marvin wrote post #314:
> One thing that is really lost in all of this is that this game,
> while we try whenever possible to cater to your wishes,
> is not a democracy. If we took a vote on every change, or made sure
> it was passed by your elected representitives, this would be a very 
> strange, and I think worthless game.
> 
> I think chess is too hard. That darn queen has too much power, and
> my opponent always keeps his queen for a lot longer. I think she
> should be downgraded. And pawns should give me more exp. I can pick them
> off at will, but it doesn't seem to do me much good.
> And what about the death penalty. I dont think you should actually
> _lose_ when your king is taken, maybe just be given all your pieces 
> back, minus a bishop or two. Yeah, that sounds more fair.
> 
> Hmm, maybe chess would be a more fun game if I didn't have a say in
> the rules.  Obviously whoever made the game knew what they were doing...
> 
> Ok, its 3am and I can't sleep, and its a bad time to
> be making analogies... but you get my point.
> 
> --M
I See you like Waz's area too.

*GRIN*

-----------------

poster: Elendor
subject: Discussing change
date: Wed Jul 25 20:35:33 2001

I would have volunteered for the group however i was off for 5
days, when i came back there was a mail sayin, apply for the
group and another saying it was already full, now usually i am
on more often so i missed it, was nothing to do with not wanting
to be in it

Just wanted to clear that up


Elendor

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Discussing change
date: Wed Jul 25 20:44:54 2001

On Wed Jul 25 20:35:33 2001 Elendor wrote post #319:
> I would have volunteered for the group however i was off for 5
> days, when i came back there was a mail sayin, apply for the
> group and another saying it was already full, now usually i am
> on more often so i missed it, was nothing to do with not wanting
> to be in it
> 
> Just wanted to clear that up
> 
> 
> Elendor
I have actually asked for volunteers twice, just for 
the record.

**

-----------------

poster: Elendor
subject: Discussing change
date: Wed Jul 25 20:55:02 2001

Yes i know you did Zifnab, but whats the point in joining 
in something half way through, by then ideas should already
be on the table, have been discussed a bit, you get to
watch as something gets implemented without a whole lot
of input.

My last post on this

Elendor.

-----------------

poster: Kazulanth
subject: >Stuffs
date: Thu Jul 26 04:13:36 2001

On Wed Jul 25 04:44:52 2001 Tektor wrote post #306:
> I was having fun in the sun (literaly) till I read my e-mail and I
> left stuff to people I trusted to do, turns out they wern't all that
> trustworthy. So thanks to those I'll be on repaying a few people who
> had to put up with my junk Sorry to those people Kaz being one of
> the major ones. Guess the best way to make sure something gets done
> is to do it yourself. As for the nuke it was already stated that it
> was in error, but even in error I was already informed that I was
> not going to get a restore. I was having some fun with my last reinc
> and After all the ups and downs to get there and endless hours of
> being on I don't feel like starting back from square one, trust me
> its not fun in any way.

I'm tired of you using me as an instrument of whining Tektor, I
don't care nearly as much about the 3m I lent you, as the fact that
you decided to leave a week after I lent you it, without making any
mention of any idea to leave to me, and making NO attempt to repay
me on your own (selling off eq, etc) but instead leaving others to
repay your debts, whether or not they actually owed you anything,
without confirming with them that they'd be doing this, just leaving
a mail saying that x and y person would be giving me these items. I
am not impressed by your martyrdom over the money you owe me, and if
you had had a good reason to leave I would not be nearly as angry,
but as you and only you knew that you would be leaving, no one else
can be reasonably expected to have to deal with cleaning up after
you.


-----------------

poster: Kazulanth
subject: >>>Stuffs
date: Thu Jul 26 04:20:53 2001

I am still failing to see why all of this had to be done WITHOUT TELLING ME.

-----------------

poster: Kazulanth
subject: >>>>>Stuffs
date: Thu Jul 26 04:27:29 2001

On Thu Jul 26 04:24:41 2001 Tektor wrote post #325:
> On Thu Jul 26 04:20:53 2001 Kazulanth wrote post #324:
> > I am still failing to see why all of this had to be done WITHOUT TELLING
ME.
> I sent you mail telling you that I wasn't going to be around due to
> me not having anything and that you would still be repaid. What more
> do you want? Exact dates and times I'm not the other person If I had
> known you'd get such a tizzy I would have stayed longer. I already
> told you I would work to repay many times since i got back. Quit
> whining its very unbecoming of you. Thats my final word on the
> matter.

I'm not whining. I'm pissed. Leave me alone.

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>>newb equip
date: Thu Jul 26 07:21:14 2001

On Wed Jul 25 17:26:06 2001 Zifnab wrote post #316:
> On Wed Jul 25 08:40:06 2001 Moo wrote post #309:
> > On Wed Jul 25 08:35:27 2001 Miciaih wrote post #308:
> > > okay the newbie equipment thin is a great idea but it seems that all
> > > the newbies dont want to wait for results they want results fast and
> > > the dont want little things the expect high end stuff.  so what i
> > > was going to say is its a great idea but it needs the newbies to
> > > help to.
> > 
> > The problem with our newbie eq party today was that we spent about
> > an hour and a half killing a monster that gave an amulet with +3
> > str, and the only reason we were able to kill it was because we had
> > outside help.  I think that's just a little excessive for almost
> > pointless newbie eq.
> Please give me the guilds/levels that were in your party.  
> 
> How is any equipment that newbies can get by themselsves pointless?
> This is part of the attitude problem the mud has at the moment 
> IMHO, Its not top slot, it sucks why bother.
> 
> Guess what you have to start somewhere.
Apathy hit on it I think.  I know we're not supposed to divulge monster 
stats and stuff, but I think I will let the newbiefolks know eq monsters 
(and event monsters) are generally more resistant to normal 
weapons.  I remember one time, me and erec 
were level 15 newbies trying to kill one lousy viking and 
the bastard seemed invincible.  I bug reported it and everything.
Turns out there's this thing called 'phys res' and other stuff 
like 'non-phys damage types'.  Erec had some cool daggers, 
I had a couple swords of devastation that rocked normal monsters, 
and we couldn't scratch the one dumb viking after 40 minutes of work.
I later got weapons like a singing sword with electric 
damage, and kindle axe or rhls with fire damage, and 
I was able to chop down a viking in 
30 seconds to a minute.

Those two new monsters I made will be tough to beat with 
normal weapons, but if you get a big mess of people 
with magic spells weapons with 
other damage types(scythe turning up 
in the shop alot lately has wc47 and unholy damagee type), 
you should be able to hurt the monsters easily.

Reason quirk's stuff isn't fantastic is cause 
the level 40+ blasters can go in and 
nuke him inside a minute.  I have a fistful 
of newbie secondaries, and I just coded up eq 
to fill slots and stats I couldn't find when I was playing those guys.

The squid is deadly dangerous, but I haven't seen any level 
20, 1500hp tank tanks trying to lead a party 
for it yet.  As level 15 tank, I was making 500k 
gold a login and could afford some fine stuff.
The squid has pieces that should fill other slots I had 
trouble finding eq for, so he'll be worthwhile once 
you find a tank to tank it.

Anyway, if you all get a real party with a real tank and some 
bunch of any old kinds of mages, maybe a weaver or two, you should 
be able to clear even the squid.  We 
have more monsters in the works, malice got a couple 
in just recently, so there will be more than 
the 1 or two pieces for you all to go after.  Once 
you got a rythmn for it, you'll do fine.

One slight change I'll ask zifnab about is to tune down 
squid area just a bit. ;>  I tested my tank character 
against the squid and he could hang in with it decently, 
but that area attack may be a bit much for the mages to 
withstand.

Anyway, done my rant.

-pedron spam

-----------------

poster: Tektor
subject: Newb Eq
date: Thu Jul 26 07:30:02 2001

With some nifty help from Trunks teaching some newbies about eq we
took out some decent newbie stuff with a smallish party. It can be
done some just got a lil impatient when it didn't die in 1 run but
some need to understand the monster isn't just going to fall dead
and give you its stuff at the sight of you. Have't tried the Squid
yet but we got one of Malice's monsters Very nice staff Malice.
Squid is next on our list. Kudos to Pedron and Malice for the kewl
new stuff.

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: newb eq
date: Thu Jul 26 07:59:38 2001

i have an unreinced secondary, and i'm willing to help out killing
these new monsies, if ya need a weaver/blaster real bad just lemme
knowand i'll log him in if not busy

-lu

-----------------

poster: Kjara
subject: newbie eq
date: Thu Jul 26 22:14:11 2001

Since we are adding new newbie eq mobs how bout we change baby tia
into a newbie eq mob(could even add a little quest or something like
the real tia) make it a newbie only quest and have it give mabee
some semi-decent newbie only eq

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>>>Eq decay.
date: Fri Jul 27 00:53:12 2001

On Mon Jul 23 17:46:46 2001 Magneto wrote post #289:
> if you dont play often your eq will last forever.  Well as long as
> you dont log in and idle for 8 hours a day with your eq on.
im not sure but i think what he meant was that some peopel can only
get on the mud for short time pierods at a time, not get on anf off.

Most eq parties i see take alittle longer then 2 hours or so, and im
sure that a "casual player" sombody he doesnt consider rd an
intricate part of his or her life would have trouble not just
getting in an eq party but beign able to stay long enough to dice.
shrug

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>>>>>Eq decay.
date: Fri Jul 27 01:35:58 2001

On Fri Jul 27 00:53:12 2001 Sleet wrote post #332:
> On Mon Jul 23 17:46:46 2001 Magneto wrote post #289:
> > if you dont play often your eq will last forever.  Well as long as
> > you dont log in and idle for 8 hours a day with your eq on.
> im not sure but i think what he meant was that some peopel can only
> get on the mud for short time pierods at a time, not get on anf off.
> 
> Most eq parties i see take alittle longer then 2 hours or so, and im
> sure that a "casual player" sombody he doesnt consider rd an
> intricate part of his or her life would have trouble not just
> getting in an eq party but beign able to stay long enough to dice.
> shrug
Casual player not so concerned with red dragon, and who can't spare 
two hours or so for it here and there, should be the sort 
of player who cares least about eq. ;>

I see people who login, ask for party, and logout when one doesn't form 
inside the minute.  There's alot more to red dragon than whatever 
party you can get into.  If you don't take advantage 
of all the other things, you'll suffer on the 'getting a party' 
aspect by default.
(Other things include exploring, goldruns, finding/buying eq, 
solo exp, training skills before leaping up levels, 
socializing with people.  Getting party is helped 
by those things, and time is needed for them.)

My big nickel,
Pedron

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: hehehe
date: Fri Jul 27 02:06:22 2001

i found the funiest thing today.
if you have instant messanger send a message to smarterchild. its a
comp that talks back to you.
its really funny

-----------------

poster: Guacamole
subject: >>>>>>>Eq decay.
date: Fri Jul 27 13:52:34 2001

On Fri Jul 27 01:35:58 2001 Pedron wrote post #333:
> On Fri Jul 27 00:53:12 2001 Sleet wrote post #332:
> > On Mon Jul 23 17:46:46 2001 Magneto wrote post #289:
> > > if you dont play often your eq will last forever.  Well as long as
> > > you dont log in and idle for 8 hours a day with your eq on.
> > im not sure but i think what he meant was that some peopel can only
> > get on the mud for short time pierods at a time, not get on anf off.
> > 
> > Most eq parties i see take alittle longer then 2 hours or so, and im
> > sure that a "casual player" sombody he doesnt consider rd an
> > intricate part of his or her life would have trouble not just
> > getting in an eq party but beign able to stay long enough to dice.
> > shrug
> Casual player not so concerned with red dragon, and who can't spare 
> two hours or so for it here and there, should be the sort 
> of player who cares least about eq. ;>
> 
> I see people who login, ask for party, and logout when one doesn't form 
> inside the minute.  There's alot more to red dragon than whatever 
> party you can get into.  If you don't take advantage 
> of all the other things, you'll suffer on the 'getting a party' 
> aspect by default.
> (Other things include exploring, goldruns, finding/buying eq, 
> solo exp, training skills before leaping up levels, 
> socializing with people.  Getting party is helped 
> by those things, and time is needed for them.)
> 
> My big nickel,
> Pedron

Uhm, why should anyone who can't get on for a few hours DESERVE
good eq?

-G

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >>>>>>>>Eq decay.
date: Fri Jul 27 17:58:22 2001

I think the magical answer to everyone's question about "casual
players" and where they get their eq without being able to spare
enough hours is the same as the answer to where they got the eq that
is decaying in the first place ... they did gold and purchased it. 
I don't see how they are in any way affected more significantly by
this change than the rest of the mud.
  A side note ... has anyone had anything degrade below new or known
someone who has even?  There seems to be alot of speculation here
about something we haven't even been affected by yet.

-----------------

poster: Elendor
subject: EQ Decay
date: Fri Jul 27 19:18:01 2001

Yes ppls eq has decayed beyond new already, the ppls who havent
are the casual players or those who have high grade eq, i think
one of the big problems is that alot of the high worth players
only look at it form the view of other high worth players and
dont really notice what effect these things have on lower
players in the game.
players in the game.


And before i get spammed im not saying that high worth players
dont help lower players im saying they dont look at effects
on lower players, i think that was clearly shown on the comments
on posts to do with the guilds, all commens that were mentioned
were immediatly taken to the point of highbie players, something
i was tryin to avoid

Elendor.

-----------------

poster: Lasher
subject: >>>>>>>>Eq decay.
date: Fri Jul 27 19:33:32 2001

On Fri Jul 27 13:52:34 2001 Guacamole wrote post #335:
> On Fri Jul 27 01:35:58 2001 Pedron wrote post #333:
> > On Fri Jul 27 00:53:12 2001 Sleet wrote post #332:
> > > On Mon Jul 23 17:46:46 2001 Magneto wrote post #289:
> > > > if you dont play often your eq will last forever.  Well as long as
> > > > you dont log in and idle for 8 hours a day with your eq on.
> > > im not sure but i think what he meant was that some peopel can only
> > > get on the mud for short time pierods at a time, not get on anf off.
> > > 
> > > Most eq parties i see take alittle longer then 2 hours or so, and im
> > > sure that a "casual player" sombody he doesnt consider rd an
> > > intricate part of his or her life would have trouble not just
> > > getting in an eq party but beign able to stay long enough to dice.
> > > shrug
> > Casual player not so concerned with red dragon, and who can't spare 
> > two hours or so for it here and there, should be the sort 
> > of player who cares least about eq. ;>
> > 
> > I see people who login, ask for party, and logout when one doesn't form 
> > inside the minute.  There's alot more to red dragon than whatever 
> > party you can get into.  If you don't take advantage 
> > of all the other things, you'll suffer on the 'getting a party' 
> > aspect by default.
> > (Other things include exploring, goldruns, finding/buying eq, 
> > solo exp, training skills before leaping up levels, 
> > socializing with people.  Getting party is helped 
> > by those things, and time is needed for them.)
> > 
> > My big nickel,
> > Pedron
> 
> Uhm, why should anyone who can't get on for a few hours DESERVE
> good eq?
> 
> -G
 
Perhaps because they put hundreds of hours of work into 
getting the EQ they do have at a time when they were able
to play more? Somewhat pointless discussion now anyway
based on the decay rates Marvin stated it's not really
an issue.

-----------------

poster: Guacamole
subject: >>>>>>>>>Eq decay.
date: Fri Jul 27 19:39:06 2001

On Fri Jul 27 19:33:32 2001 Lasher wrote post #338:
> On Fri Jul 27 13:52:34 2001 Guacamole wrote post #335:
> > On Fri Jul 27 01:35:58 2001 Pedron wrote post #333:
> > > On Fri Jul 27 00:53:12 2001 Sleet wrote post #332:
> > > > On Mon Jul 23 17:46:46 2001 Magneto wrote post #289:
> > > > > if you dont play often your eq will last forever.  Well as long as
> > > > > you dont log in and idle for 8 hours a day with your eq on.
> > > > im not sure but i think what he meant was that some peopel can only
> > > > get on the mud for short time pierods at a time, not get on anf off.
> > > > 
> > > > Most eq parties i see take alittle longer then 2 hours or so, and im
> > > > sure that a "casual player" sombody he doesnt consider rd an
> > > > intricate part of his or her life would have trouble not just
> > > > getting in an eq party but beign able to stay long enough to dice.
> > > > shrug
> > > Casual player not so concerned with red dragon, and who can't spare 
> > > two hours or so for it here and there, should be the sort 
> > > of player who cares least about eq. ;>
> > > 
> > > I see people who login, ask for party, and logout when one doesn't form 
> > > inside the minute.  There's alot more to red dragon than whatever 
> > > party you can get into.  If you don't take advantage 
> > > of all the other things, you'll suffer on the 'getting a party' 
> > > aspect by default.
> > > (Other things include exploring, goldruns, finding/buying eq, 
> > > solo exp, training skills before leaping up levels, 
> > > socializing with people.  Getting party is helped 
> > > by those things, and time is needed for them.)
> > > 
> > > My big nickel,
> > > Pedron
> > 
> > Uhm, why should anyone who can't get on for a few hours DESERVE
> > good eq?
> > 
> > -G
>  
> Perhaps because they put hundreds of hours of work into 
> getting the EQ they do have at a time when they were able
> to play more? Somewhat pointless discussion now anyway
> based on the decay rates Marvin stated it's not really
> an issue.

I don't think it's a good argument against eq decay that some people
who once were active and now aren't active will be inconvenienced.

The arches are working towards making the mud more fun for active 
people, as it should be...  And besides, like you mentioned, if someone
isn't active, their eq will last for years.

-G

-----------------

poster: Nitemare
subject: Party of Joy
date: Fri Jul 27 20:47:31 2001

Ooook, me and Biorn is going to start a "Party of Joy", today, at 4
PM'ish, CST.
Anyones welcome, spam Biorn for invites, if enough people show up,
we'll kill things

-Nitemare

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>>>>>>>Eq decay.
date: Fri Jul 27 21:12:43 2001

On Fri Jul 27 19:33:32 2001 Lasher wrote post #338:
> On Fri Jul 27 13:52:34 2001 Guacamole wrote post #335:
> > On Fri Jul 27 01:35:58 2001 Pedron wrote post #333:
> > > On Fri Jul 27 00:53:12 2001 Sleet wrote post #332:
> > > > On Mon Jul 23 17:46:46 2001 Magneto wrote post #289:
> > > > > if you dont play often your eq will last forever.  Well as long as
> > > > > you dont log in and idle for 8 hours a day with your eq on.
> > > > im not sure but i think what he meant was that some peopel can only
> > > > get on the mud for short time pierods at a time, not get on anf off.
> > > > 
> > > > Most eq parties i see take alittle longer then 2 hours or so, and im
> > > > sure that a "casual player" sombody he doesnt consider rd an
> > > > intricate part of his or her life would have trouble not just
> > > > getting in an eq party but beign able to stay long enough to dice.
> > > > shrug
> > > Casual player not so concerned with red dragon, and who can't spare 
> > > two hours or so for it here and there, should be the sort 
> > > of player who cares least about eq. ;>
> > > 
> > > I see people who login, ask for party, and logout when one doesn't form 
> > > inside the minute.  There's alot more to red dragon than whatever 
> > > party you can get into.  If you don't take advantage 
> > > of all the other things, you'll suffer on the 'getting a party' 
> > > aspect by default.
> > > (Other things include exploring, goldruns, finding/buying eq, 
> > > solo exp, training skills before leaping up levels, 
> > > socializing with people.  Getting party is helped 
> > > by those things, and time is needed for them.)
> > > 
> > > My big nickel,
> > > Pedron
> > 
> > Uhm, why should anyone who can't get on for a few hours DESERVE
> > good eq?
> > 
> > -G
>  
> Perhaps because they put hundreds of hours of work into 
> getting the EQ they do have at a time when they were able
> to play more? Somewhat pointless discussion now anyway
> based on the decay rates Marvin stated it's not really
> an issue.
i dont think that because someoen cant play 5-8 hours at a time, but
still plays activley every day should not be welcomed by the mud.
i think that if you excluded these peopel from the mud you would be
surpirsed how small it got.
Wasnt that what this group was talking about before witht the split
bodies, how we cant keep tuning to the poeple that play all day and
have no lives?

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >>>>>>>>>>Eq decay.
date: Fri Jul 27 22:54:06 2001

Oh jezus this is never going to end.
Oh jezus this is never going to end.

Sleet: people who were active (but not at the expense of having a
life outside the mud, ie, only a couple of hours a day) are still
going to get eq via doing gold, yes?

Gods, how long do we have to argue back and forth about how being
active or not is going to affect said players and their eq when it
has already been stated that it won't.

-WC

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>>>>>>>Eq decay.
date: Sat Jul 28 02:45:01 2001

On Fri Jul 27 13:52:34 2001 Guacamole wrote post #335:
> On Fri Jul 27 01:35:58 2001 Pedron wrote post #333:
> > On Fri Jul 27 00:53:12 2001 Sleet wrote post #332:
> > > On Mon Jul 23 17:46:46 2001 Magneto wrote post #289:
> > > > if you dont play often your eq will last forever.  Well as long as
> > > > you dont log in and idle for 8 hours a day with your eq on.
> > > im not sure but i think what he meant was that some peopel can only
> > > get on the mud for short time pierods at a time, not get on anf off.
> > > 
> > > Most eq parties i see take alittle longer then 2 hours or so, and im
> > > sure that a "casual player" sombody he doesnt consider rd an
> > > intricate part of his or her life would have trouble not just
> > > getting in an eq party but beign able to stay long enough to dice.
> > > shrug
> > Casual player not so concerned with red dragon, and who can't spare 
> > two hours or so for it here and there, should be the sort 
> > of player who cares least about eq. ;>
> > 
> > I see people who login, ask for party, and logout when one doesn't form 
> > inside the minute.  There's alot more to red dragon than whatever 
> > party you can get into.  If you don't take advantage 
> > of all the other things, you'll suffer on the 'getting a party' 
> > aspect by default.
> > (Other things include exploring, goldruns, finding/buying eq, 
> > solo exp, training skills before leaping up levels, 
> > socializing with people.  Getting party is helped 
> > by those things, and time is needed for them.)
> > 
> > My big nickel,
> > Pedron
> 
> Uhm, why should anyone who can't get on for a few hours DESERVE
> good eq?
> 
> -G
hope you don't think I said they should. :)
Am pretty sure the guy I replied to thougght so, but I didn't.

-pedron

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: >>Discussing change
date: Sat Jul 28 07:20:56 2001

Hmm. I hate to be the one who contradicts an Imm, but you seem to
have overlooked some things, Marvin.

>This group was never intended to be a player rep group. It was
>merely a group of people who were open to giving their opinion in
>a constructive manner. If you wanted to be in this group, you
>should have said so when we asked the first time. 


I'm not sure how many of the active players actually did reply to
this news post, but I'm still waiting for a response on the mail I
sent in regards to this mail. It makes little difference now, but at
the time I replied I was a quite active player, and one of the few
players who has newbies interests in mind, which as far as I can
see, arent anywhere close to being included in the list of players
concerned.

>Generally, this group has done its job very well. It gives us a
>forum to bounce off our ideas without (excessive) whining and
>misinformation.

I guess that how well this group of people has done is based on the
perspective of the beholder. I'm not sure what does go on with
regards to how this group gives feedback or votes etc, but judging
by what I've seen WRT the recent eq change, with all due respect to
the players inside it, it may appear that the groups members were
'nodding yes men' with at least this one particular subject.

>If you don't like the current changes, I'm sorry. But that is no
>reason to accuse a group of not doing their job, when you were
>givin every oportunity to join them, and really have no idea what
>their job even is.

A given group of people will always be divided on almost any
question posed to them, but as previously stated, this group was
intended (as far as was implied when the group was reformed) to give
a decent cross section of the playerbase a hand in how the mud will
turn out. After all, it is the players who play the game. My
personal view is that this group should include more people than
just players that are older than dirt, or who put in bucket loads of
game time in, every day.

Maybe I'm not seeing 'what this group was intended for', but my
opinion is that it shouldnt be a set group like it is, it should be
an open group, allowing some of the more prominent players from all
worths and all playing time zones.

My spammy two dinarii

- Tranquil


-----------------

poster: Apathy
subject: >>>Discussing change
date: Sat Jul 28 07:24:54 2001

> My spammy two dinarii
> 
> - Tranquil
> 

Nonononono, asses, not denarii!
Much more interesting that way.

-Apathy

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: >>>>>>>>Eq decay.
date: Sat Jul 28 07:35:51 2001

>
>Uhm, why should anyone who can't get on for a few hours DESERVE
>good eq?
>
>-G


Oooh, good point. Baer! gimme your eq! =)

- Tranq


-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: Discussing change
date: Sat Jul 28 11:11:41 2001

To be honest, I suppose that I don't really care. Whether you like
or dislike the changes, or whether you like to dislike who we talked
to before we made those changes doesn't really interest me.
Whether the changes are good for the mud is all that matters, and so
far I have not seen the slightest shred of evidence that they
aren't. Speculation on how this effects left-handed near-sighted
dentists who can only play on Thursdays is just that... speculation.
You really have no idea. Me either, but at least I have seen the
code. And I know that I am willing to change any bad system to
something new, as we have done a bajillion times in the past, but
short-memoried players cant seem to remember.

I'm sorry if you don't like the change, and I'm sorry if you think
our discussion group was too narrow, or whatever. 
But frankly, at this moment, I couldn't care less.

--M

-----------------

poster: Chewba
subject: Eq Decay.
date: Sat Jul 28 11:46:22 2001

I am thinking of organising counselling sessions for all those
mudders who can cope with strain of Eq deacy. All those interested
or who just want to talk catch me online or mail me. Remember you
are not alone and you WILL get through this.

Dr. Chewba Toothpaste.

Counselling sessions are charged at 100k per 15 mins.

-----------------

poster: Tarquin
subject: casual player
date: Mon Jul 30 20:20:00 2001

I think I am an example of the 'casual player' so many people seem
concerned about.
Sure, I have some eq, I can't remember what it all does, but I can
figure it out by the messages.
I don't want to lose it, but I don't really care if I do.  As a
casual player, I don't care
that my blast does 20hp less damage because I don't have my +wis set of eq.
I'm not here for eq, it's just a way to pass some time.  Casual
players like myself should not even be a consideration in tunes.  It
seems the wizards know that.  Perhaps players are grasping at straws
for reasons to oppose change?

-----------------

poster: Rancor
subject: eq party
date: Tue Jul 31 00:22:47 2001

Ok folks it is me again and I am orginizing a weekly eq party.  I am
looking for someone who is willing to tank it and I also need 1 more
blaster.
As of right now I have Smee, Nezmaniac, blackthorne, athena,
bluemoon, occult, trunks, and lostego. 
The party would be at night around 9:30pm cst and last until
finished(last one went till 12).  AS of a specific day I don't know
yet and will be worked out when we get a tank and one more blaster.
Mudmail me or catch me online if your interested.
Thanks
Rancor

-----------------

poster: Chrono
subject: like anyone cares, but
date: Tue Jul 31 22:45:13 2001

like anyone cares, but...

im gonna be moving, sooo, that means i dont know when ill be back.
today i guess is gonna be my last day, for a while, not sure...
anyway, ill catch yall later

Chrono

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: fyi
date: Wed Aug  1 09:43:17 2001

i just thought id let everyone know taht i joined enchanter on my
last reinc and that if anyone needs a shrink or enlarge to give me a
holla.

-----------------

poster: Daigashi
subject: out of topic but..
date: Wed Aug  1 10:47:05 2001

drink more diet drinks...and then read this link...
http://hem.passagen.se/hiero/diet_drink_anyone.txt
I didnt write it, iam innocent, just spreading the info...and
remember diet drinks (coke, pepsi etc) are good for ya..

//Daigashi

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: kills
date: Wed Aug  1 22:25:40 2001

Just useless info might be interesting...

./m/mirrim.o:kills 303376
./e/erec.o:kills 166548
./p/puffdaddy.o:kills 160266
./r/raw.o:kills 127097
./n/nightfall.o:kills 122434
./a/amerzar.o:kills 109291
./l/lasher.o:kills 105027
./p/phire.o:kills 104908
./g/graxon.o:kills 100348
./a/alvin.o:kills 99788
./a/arkangyle.o:kills 99379
./s/sak.o:kills 95530
./d/dfalt.o:kills 89640
./t/tigerwolf.o:kills 88690
./t/tomten.o:kills 88388
./p/purgatori.o:kills 86762
./h/hierokliff.o:kills 86551
./z/zyz.o:kills 84942
./t/tahnval.o:kills 83690
./g/grendel.o:kills 79583
./p/pedron.o:kills 78833
./t/talgore.o:kills 77823
./a/austin.o:kills 77213
./a/ada.o:kills 75405
./t/trax.o:kills 73536
./m/mixer.o:kills 71356
./wizzed/mixer.o:kills 71325
./e/energystar.o:kills 69211
./m/malifix.o:kills 68171
./j/jomo.o:kills 67404
./l/locke.o:kills 66901
./p/pasqualli.o:kills 65305
./n/nagash.o:kills 64652
./b/buliwyf.o:kills 63526
./b/blonk.o:kills 62232
./s/spikey.o:kills 61456
./t/tistoo.o:kills 58287
./p/psyko.o:kills 57628
./c/comrade.o:kills 56688
./l/lu.o:kills 56122
./b/bigglesworth.o:kills 55953
./k/kresselak.o:kills 55263
./v/vectro.o:kills 55047
./s/shmon.o:kills 54789
./a/ashtoreth.o:kills 52606
./b/barkley.o:kills 52463
./c/coal.o:kills 52001
./s/shiranai.o:kills 51234
./e/ertai.o:kills 51216
./k/killaaz.o:kills 50178
./a/antiochus.o:kills 49976
./d/drost.o:kills 48727
./n/nax.o:kills 48129
./w/warchief.o:kills 46699
./a/areu.o:kills 46548
./d/dagger.o:kills 46310
./s/snoop.o:kills 45251
./g/golte.o:kills 44815
./g/guinni.o:kills 44764
./e/erigon.o:kills 44492
./s/sleip.o:kills 43349
./b/bajumbo.o:kills 43227
./b/bantum.o:kills 42983
./t/tuenek.o:kills 42518
./f/fezzick.o:kills 42456
./e/elendor.o:kills 42240
./r/rodo.o:kills 41853
./t/tresserhorn.o:kills 41473
./s/sirk.o:kills 40802
./b/balinor.o:kills 40600



-----------------

poster: Bahgtru
subject: Not happy
date: Thu Aug  2 12:04:19 2001

Whoever has the email jfu_edgeworth@yahoo.com STOP SIGNING ME UP FOR
PROMOTIONS.

It's gotta be someone from here, nobody else knows me as Bahgtru.
It's getting really annoying having to unsubscribe from things I
never subscribed to in the first place.

- B

-----------------

poster: Mixer
subject: >Not happy
date: Fri Aug  3 12:29:32 2001

On Thu Aug  2 12:04:19 2001 Bahgtru wrote post #355:
> Whoever has the email jfu_edgeworth@yahoo.com STOP SIGNING ME UP FOR
> PROMOTIONS.
> 
> It's gotta be someone from here, nobody else knows me as Bahgtru.
> It's getting really annoying having to unsubscribe from things I
> never subscribed to in the first place.
> 
> - B
Block the email address...

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: palenon
date: Sat Aug  4 08:24:40 2001

something worth reading

-----------------

poster: Miciaih
subject: newbie clan
date: Sat Aug  4 16:41:21 2001

the clan whitedragons is looking for a few newbie blasters and a
newbie clerical type from 750k worth up to 5mil.


-----------------

poster: Trigon
subject: Fun game
date: Mon Aug  6 01:01:25 2001

My brother got this game from a friend. It's an addictive bridge
building game.  Lotsa fun.  Check it out
http://www.bridgebuilder-game.com/
Trigon

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: apologies
date: Tue Aug  7 00:14:40 2001

sorry to all who were expecting me saturday :(
my car broke down while at my parents house and i was stranded there
all weekend. as if that wasn't enough, their internet is broke!
i had no way to let everybody know :( i suck ass.

U

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >apologies
date: Tue Aug  7 00:38:23 2001

On Tue Aug  7 00:14:40 2001 Uno wrote post #361:
> i had no way to let everybody know i suck ass.
> 
> U

it's okey, we already know

Mags ;)

-----------------

poster: Dalak
subject: >>apologies
date: Tue Aug  7 00:39:08 2001

On Tue Aug  7 00:38:23 2001 Magneto wrote post #362:
> On Tue Aug  7 00:14:40 2001 Uno wrote post #361:
> > i had no way to let everybody know i suck ass.
> > 
> > U
> 
> it's okey, we already know
> 
> Mags ;)
and rather well too I might add :)
Dal

-----------------

poster: Apathy
subject: New Eq Page
date: Tue Aug  7 09:24:19 2001

I'm creating a new eq page, based on information from the eq books.
As of yet, I don't have access to very many books, so the info is a
bit limited, but I plan on acquiring as many as possible. Eq book
donations/loans will be happily accepted.

The url is at http://dark.x.dtu.dk/~apathy/eq/eq.cgi

Comments and suggestions are welcome.

-Apathy

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: eq this evening
date: Thu Aug  9 22:35:38 2001

would like to try to do eq tonight... nothing specific
just gettin my sea legs back after being gone for a few weeks.
will need the usual crew, lemme know if you're interested

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: addendum
date: Thu Aug  9 22:38:00 2001

mail me if interested... i'm not catching tells too well atm.

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: Eq
date: Thu Aug  9 23:33:17 2001

Hello all, starting an eq party for NEXT Thursday, which would be
whatever date that is, a week from the 9th =) Time is going to be
from 9:30 pm Central time.
Currently needed are: 1 Tank, 2 Healers (atleast 1 with rev and
entock), 1-2 Harmers (with death), An abjurer, evokers and other
blasters.
Mudmail me if interested, or talk to me when Im on.

Bluemoon

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: >Eq
date: Thu Aug  9 23:34:56 2001

On Thu Aug  9 23:33:17 2001 Bluemoon wrote post #367:
> Hello all, starting an eq party for NEXT Thursday, which would be
> whatever date that is, a week from the 9th =) Time is going to be
> from 9:30 pm Central time.
> Currently needed are: 1 Tank, 2 Healers (atleast 1 with rev and
> entock), 1-2 Harmers (with death), An abjurer, evokers and other
> blasters.
> Mudmail me if interested, or talk to me when Im on.
> 
> Bluemoon
i'd like to schedule an eq party for january 10th, 2002 @ 2 am rltime...
will need 4 guilds that haven't been coded yet, plus griffin.

//U (silly)

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: this is how much i suck
date: Thu Aug  9 23:38:39 2001

i'm guessing i'd like to be out of the gates by 0130 rltime this evening
i have to go get beer, and then will start gathering people around 0100 orso

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: Eq party
date: Fri Aug 10 08:45:20 2001

Hey all, update on the eq party.
heres who I have so far:
Roach, Debacle, Alek, Chrono, Smee
Still need more blasters, and 2 healers, one with rev atleast.
Depending on who we get, we also might need a bigger tank =)
Mudmail or tell me if im on if yere interested!
Bluemoon

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: my link
date: Fri Aug 10 09:19:33 2001

OK, better clear this up before i get nuked, i am not going ld to
avoid potion throwbacks, i have an extrememly shitty link, that
maybe someone can help me with(one of the other reason im posting
thins :) ).  Was working fine this afternoon, makes me think my dad
changed someothing, hopefully will be fix again tomorrow, but i can
be logged onto the internet for 5-15 minutes, then lose all internet
connection, i close portal, open portal again and hit connect

That doesnt even open portal, just brings up the mesage box, hit
enter twice and im in for another 5-15 minutes

If anyone knows whats wrong PLEASE tell me, my ethernet card is not
it, just replaced that, i;m connected to dsl thru a hub and the
other computer on that hub has a working connection

-lu


-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: race lead
date: Fri Aug 10 09:23:54 2001

324  Lasher                                  0

10  Lu                             40,303,977

lasher stole my race lead, i thought this was changed so that things
like this wouldnt happen

-lu

-----------------

poster: Smee
subject: Eq tonight
date: Fri Aug 10 18:43:09 2001

Today, friday, we're planning to do eq sometime after 0300 rltime,
depending on how many animals decide to sneeze blood in my face. We
have a tank (uno) and an abj (me), we need a witch, pref with stuns,
and a harmer, pref with master navs. High priest and blasters also
are kind of required.

Uno needs to get his ass back in gear, and you all need to help him
by doing eq.

Smee

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: Eq
date: Fri Aug 10 19:41:21 2001

Also want to add that a witch that can stun is also wanted =)

-----------------

poster: Graxon
subject: >Eq tonight
date: Fri Aug 10 20:30:49 2001

I'll try to be here!

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: Eq
date: Fri Aug 10 20:33:08 2001

Ok heard roach quit, so a harmer is still needed.
So right now here's how it stand
Alek-Tank
Harmer-Needed
Blasters- Debacle, Chrono, Myself, Kresselak, Sleet
Witch- Trunks
Abj-Smee
So still needed is a harmer, and 2 healers preferably
I beg any of you healers out there with rev and entock to sign up =)
Also some evokers would be nice to have.
Bluemoon

-----------------

poster: Poofy
subject: >Eq
date: Fri Aug 10 23:21:43 2001

On Fri Aug 10 20:33:08 2001 Bluemoon wrote post #376:
> Ok heard roach quit, so a harmer is still needed.
> So right now here's how it stand
> Alek-Tank
> Harmer-Needed
> Blasters- Debacle, Chrono, Myself, Kresselak, Sleet
> Witch- Trunks
> Abj-Smee
> So still needed is a harmer, and 2 healers preferably
> I beg any of you healers out there with rev and entock to sign up =)
> Also some evokers would be nice to have.
> Bluemoon
cough tick
 *WHINE*

-Poofy who wants to be in it but cant :(

-----------------

poster: Smee
subject: Thank you
date: Sat Aug 11 08:41:20 2001

Uno and I would like to thank everyone who showed up after 6 hours
notice for eq, and then played for roughly 5 hours, we did some neat
things, and uno knows what's what now, and we can do this again,
like, sunday

Good job to the ones who came late, it helped, etc. Tomorrow uno is
going to drink or something, but nax will be tanking eq sometime.

Yay

Smee/Uno

-----------------

poster: Kaos
subject: eq page
date: Sun Aug 12 04:17:09 2001

Got a new ip for my machine, so eq page is up again. New address:
http://158.38.88.47/~zapateria/EQ/index.html

Also added a shitload of stuffs today (thanks Apathy ;)

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: Eq
date: Mon Aug 13 11:35:47 2001

Hey all, sorry no updates.  Started work on friday, got overtime
sunday night, get the idea?
Well as far as I know we have the harmers, tank, abj and still need
a few blasters and 2 HEALERS
please send me a mail if u can join, friggin healers!
Bluemoon

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: EQ party update
date: Mon Aug 13 22:09:44 2001

Ok eq is MOVED to 10 pm cst, 30 mins later, to accomodate a few people.
Here's who we got
Tank- Alek
Abj- Smee
Healers- Kazulanth when she gets on, Still need another with rev
Harmer- Rancor and Cazhmere
Blasters- Sleet, Kresselak, Debacle, Dynomas,Chrono,Myself =)
Witch- Trunks

So we still need another healer, and then I think we're set
Bluemoon

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: eq etc.
date: Mon Aug 13 23:32:28 2001

sorry i've been a bit consistent. i'm still without wheels
and thus sometimes at the mercy of those who will give me rides
i should have my car sometime this week. until then eq parties will be on
short notice, usually in the evening.

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: tonight
date: Mon Aug 13 23:48:55 2001

would like to start forming at 0100
chances are we won't have all members until maybe 0200 or so
so show up early to get dibs on a slot, show up late if you're smee
and we can't play without you...

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: eq
date: Tue Aug 14 09:35:06 2001

thanks to those who stuck it out for what seemed a little more
wearying an eq party than some we've done. for those of
you who didn't get much to show for it (last 2 slots)
don't get discouraged :) there's more to come
no eq for me tomorrow but i hope to resume wednesday evening
ok smee

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: EQ thursday
date: Tue Aug 14 23:40:11 2001

Hi all, just was informed that mr. smee will not be attending thursday night.
So unless we find another abjurer, already pestered graxon...the
party is off =(
Bluemoon

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: cancelled!
date: Wed Aug 15 16:58:38 2001

I'm not gonna be available to tank eq tonight :)
Sorry, I got a date. (woot woot)

-----------------

poster: Skillz
subject: race table
date: Wed Aug 15 20:18:35 2001

Type finger skillz and check my URL for updated race table.

all skillz

-----------------

poster: Skillz
subject: >race table
date: Thu Aug 16 14:29:26 2001

On Wed Aug 15 20:18:35 2001 Skillz wrote post #387:
> Type finger skillz and check my URL for updated race table.
> 
> all skillz
Fixed charset, now should be looking ok.

-----------------

poster: Apathy
subject: Eq Page
date: Fri Aug 17 03:53:35 2001

Massive update to my eq page. I'm using a new tf script to dump the
data from the books to the page, and I don't trust it entirely yet,
so let me know if you find any problems.

-Apathy

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: eq this evening
date: Fri Aug 17 18:40:19 2001

Umm, it's going to be kind of weird cuz i heard a rumor
euro eq is running late. if it overlaps too much we may not
be able to do it. we'll have to do a wait and see.
i will be on for something, whether it's eq or xp is yet to be
determined... i may also just heckle euro eq.
ummm, so that's it.
also -> http://english.pravda.ru/fun/2001/08/10/12267.html
WTF?

//U

P.S. i'd also like to thank everyone who came to my slapfight
party at CS. you know who you are. i love you all.

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: update
date: Sat Aug 18 02:06:59 2001

sooo... just to let everybody know status,
amerieq is still kinda up in the air and pending euroeq
we have the slots we need but the starting time is still
wait and see (read: whenever snoop passes out)
so... that's all i can say now. good luck to yall that are
killin now :) 

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: amerieq
date: Mon Aug 20 18:45:46 2001

Whee! Smee and Zyz are back so i'd like to try for eq tonight!
Starting time will be ~0300 and will require the usual gang.
So, if you read this and you're wondering if we're doing it,
the answer is we're sure as hell going to try...
Witch and harmer/manav is kinda sketchy atm so if u know how
to get ahold of one of those do so. ummm, targets will be
discussed and partly depend on what euroeq accomplishes.
also, snoop is a weiner.

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: tonight
date: Mon Aug 20 20:44:16 2001

trying to get a guage on blasters for tonight.
if you are interested in blaasting and have >1k hp
and maxxed dtypes for your guild, mail me to let me know you
will be around at 0300 and can commit to 3h minimum

-----------------

poster: Smee
subject: Sorry
date: Tue Aug 21 09:08:50 2001

I fell asleep waiting for the maze
My brother didn't wake me up like I asked him
Beat me with pointy sticks

Smee

-----------------

poster: Smee
subject: Gimmie some lovin'.
date: Tue Aug 21 16:53:49 2001

Uno will be on starting around 0500 -> 0530 rltime. 
I will take a nap so I can not freak out and mud from the floor.
You will all help form + join an eq party, and we kill things.
You will get eq.
That is all.

-----------------

poster: Jomo
subject: Poker Tips
date: Thu Aug 23 00:23:02 2001

If your playing poker and you are afk.. please
for the love of god.. stand up from the table.

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: eq n stuff etc. et al. (sic) (tm) etc.
date: Thu Aug 23 04:52:41 2001

soooooo....
sorry about the lack of organization tonight, but i'd
like to shoot for definite eq tomorrow starting around 0300 rltime
smee is going to be gone but graxon is graciously submitting to abjuwhore
duties. all people who like things like eq and have things like >500m worth
should be here. note we need specific slots. there's a glaring
harmer/manav vacancy
now that wagro has gone back to school. ummmm, blasters are always
at a premium and
the more we get the bigger things we do. High priest healers are also
somewhat of a question mark although phire and zu have the spots if
they want them
let's try to do some cool things tomorrow. i'd like to piss marvin
off some more
by killing lloth one more time before he makes her undoable and i'd
get a giggle
if we could get tia keys in the same party. but that's optimistic.
anywho, keep in mind the specs i have and show up tomorrow if you can.
i'm feeling frisky.
//u

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: durnken
date: Thu Aug 23 04:55:38 2001

cd /pub
more beer

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: poker
date: Thu Aug 23 10:35:21 2001

should make the poker hall a no transfer room so that people can't
give others money, when you play poker you dont as around the room
to see who else(who is playing to give you moeney) seems unreasoanle
and can be very unfair at times
-lu

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >poker
date: Thu Aug 23 14:59:14 2001

On Thu Aug 23 10:35:21 2001 Lu wrote post #399:
> should make the poker hall a no transfer room so that people can't
> give others money, when you play poker you dont as around the room
> to see who else(who is playing to give you moeney) seems unreasoanle
> and can be very unfair at times
> -lu
then dont play with them.

-----------------

poster: Bahgtru
subject: Later
date: Sun Aug 26 06:04:00 2001

I'm gonna mudding a lot less (eg maybe once a week) from now on,
I've had some major probs (failing at school) and I need to get that
up.

See you all later.

- Bahg o'poop

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: for the curious
date: Sat Sep  8 05:12:50 2001

Starting to do some updating to my web page.
Updated the maps (I think only Misty Isle needed updating), and for
the curious, I added a map for Everrest. There isn't much to see
there (ie, barely any areas), but it's there nonetheless.

-WC

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: webpage update
date: Sat Sep  8 09:39:04 2001

Ok, did some file cleaning on my webpage.

My eq list is still available to view. I am still looking to keep up
on guild eq & race leadership eq items, if anybody would like to
pass some info on to me or talk to me about 'em.

Added a link to Skillz's race table, since he's updated it. It's
pretty cool once you can figure the bloody thing out :)

If anybody has a site dedicated to RD mud that would like a link
from my site (only have HK, Kaz, & Kaeber right now, Skillz's race
table, and then Kaos & Apathy's eq lists), let me know.

Hopefully will get around to doing more with my maps, maybe add one
here and there to help newbies along, try and provide some info one
way or another on other areas, etc.
Also looking to getting up the pictures from Tank's mudcon 2 years
ago. They were on the web for quite awhile on Pavilion's website,
but after she took them down she was kind enough to send them to me
via e-mail (all bloody +50 of them)... I'll need help identifying a
couple of the lost souls in these pics... mostly those guys from
BatMUD that were there, but they don't matter, do they? :)

Anyway, they're cool pics, and for those of us that were there, it's
wonderful nostalgia, for the rest of you, it's more "oh god, (so and
so) looks like THAT!?... Run away!" :)

-WC

-----------------

poster: Durin
subject: >webpage update
date: Mon Sep 10 10:25:20 2001

On Sat Sep  8 09:39:04 2001 Wildchild wrote post #404:
> Ok, did some file cleaning on my webpage.
> 
> My eq list is still available to view. I am still looking to keep up
> on guild eq & race leadership eq items, if anybody would like to
> pass some info on to me or talk to me about 'em.
> 
> Added a link to Skillz's race table, since he's updated it. It's
> pretty cool once you can figure the bloody thing out :)
> 
> If anybody has a site dedicated to RD mud that would like a link
> from my site (only have HK, Kaz, & Kaeber right now, Skillz's race
> table, and then Kaos & Apathy's eq lists), let me know.
> 
> Hopefully will get around to doing more with my maps, maybe add one
> here and there to help newbies along, try and provide some info one
> way or another on other areas, etc.
> Also looking to getting up the pictures from Tank's mudcon 2 years
> ago. They were on the web for quite awhile on Pavilion's website,
> but after she took them down she was kind enough to send them to me
> via e-mail (all bloody +50 of them)... I'll need help identifying a
> couple of the lost souls in these pics... mostly those guys from
> BatMUD that were there, but they don't matter, do they? :)
> 
> Anyway, they're cool pics, and for those of us that were there, it's
> wonderful nostalgia, for the rest of you, it's more "oh god, (so and
> so) looks like THAT!?... Run away!" :)
> 
> -WC

Could you get Khosan to send you Fincon 99 pics somehow, his section
of the RD page has been down for ages now.

Moan.

-Durin

-----------------

poster: Skillz
subject: emerald woods
date: Mon Sep 10 18:13:50 2001

I made the map of Emerald woods:
http://skillz.fromru.com/rd/subemerald.html
Any domain pages owners can feel free to add use it :\

PS: Watch out Hag!
all skillz

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >emerald woods
date: Mon Sep 10 23:25:31 2001

On Mon Sep 10 18:13:50 2001 Skillz wrote post #406:
> I made the map of Emerald woods:
> http://skillz.fromru.com/rd/subemerald.html
> Any domain pages owners can feel free to add use it :\
> 
> PS: Watch out Hag!
> all skillz

*ponder* Never thought about adding the maps of those. There aren't
very many of them, but it's not a bad idea :)

-WC

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >>webpage update
date: Mon Sep 10 23:26:41 2001

On Mon Sep 10 10:25:20 2001 Durin wrote post #405:
> On Sat Sep  8 09:39:04 2001 Wildchild wrote post #404:
> > Ok, did some file cleaning on my webpage.
> > 
> > My eq list is still available to view. I am still looking to keep up
> > on guild eq & race leadership eq items, if anybody would like to
> > pass some info on to me or talk to me about 'em.
> > 
> > Added a link to Skillz's race table, since he's updated it. It's
> > pretty cool once you can figure the bloody thing out :)
> > 
> > If anybody has a site dedicated to RD mud that would like a link
> > from my site (only have HK, Kaz, & Kaeber right now, Skillz's race
> > table, and then Kaos & Apathy's eq lists), let me know.
> > 
> > Hopefully will get around to doing more with my maps, maybe add one
> > here and there to help newbies along, try and provide some info one
> > way or another on other areas, etc.
> > Also looking to getting up the pictures from Tank's mudcon 2 years
> > ago. They were on the web for quite awhile on Pavilion's website,
> > but after she took them down she was kind enough to send them to me
> > via e-mail (all bloody +50 of them)... I'll need help identifying a
> > couple of the lost souls in these pics... mostly those guys from
> > BatMUD that were there, but they don't matter, do they? :)
> > 
> > Anyway, they're cool pics, and for those of us that were there, it's
> > wonderful nostalgia, for the rest of you, it's more "oh god, (so and
> > so) looks like THAT!?... Run away!" :)
> > 
> > -WC
> 
> Could you get Khosan to send you Fincon 99 pics somehow, his section
> of the RD page has been down for ages now.
> 
> Moan.
> 
> -Durin

I talked to Khosan about that yesterday. He gave me a link from
which I can download all the pics. They're all like 300-500k in
size, so I might do some cropping, that and I need some help from
those there in identifying everybody, if any would volunteer.

-WC

-----------------

poster: Koma
subject: >>>webpage update
date: Tue Sep 11 09:31:37 2001

On Mon Sep 10 23:26:41 2001 Wildchild wrote post #408:
> On Mon Sep 10 10:25:20 2001 Durin wrote post #405:
> > On Sat Sep  8 09:39:04 2001 Wildchild wrote post #404:
> > > Ok, did some file cleaning on my webpage.
> > > 
> > > My eq list is still available to view. I am still looking to keep up
> > > on guild eq & race leadership eq items, if anybody would like to
> > > pass some info on to me or talk to me about 'em.
> > > 
> > > Added a link to Skillz's race table, since he's updated it. It's
> > > pretty cool once you can figure the bloody thing out :)
> > > 
> > > If anybody has a site dedicated to RD mud that would like a link
> > > from my site (only have HK, Kaz, & Kaeber right now, Skillz's race
> > > table, and then Kaos & Apathy's eq lists), let me know.
> > > 
> > > Hopefully will get around to doing more with my maps, maybe add one
> > > here and there to help newbies along, try and provide some info one
> > > way or another on other areas, etc.
> > > Also looking to getting up the pictures from Tank's mudcon 2 years
> > > ago. They were on the web for quite awhile on Pavilion's website,
> > > but after she took them down she was kind enough to send them to me
> > > via e-mail (all bloody +50 of them)... I'll need help identifying a
> > > couple of the lost souls in these pics... mostly those guys from
> > > BatMUD that were there, but they don't matter, do they? :)
> > > 
> > > Anyway, they're cool pics, and for those of us that were there, it's
> > > wonderful nostalgia, for the rest of you, it's more "oh god, (so and
> > > so) looks like THAT!?... Run away!" :)
> > > 
> > > -WC
> > 
> > Could you get Khosan to send you Fincon 99 pics somehow, his section
> > of the RD page has been down for ages now.
> > 
> > Moan.
> > 
> > -Durin
> 
> I talked to Khosan about that yesterday. He gave me a link from
> which I can download all the pics. They're all like 300-500k in
> size, so I might do some cropping, that and I need some help from
> those there in identifying everybody, if any would volunteer.
> 
> -WC

I'll volunteer to ID people from the pics.

Komapoo

-----------------

poster: Koma
subject: >>>>webpage update
date: Tue Sep 11 09:41:18 2001

On Tue Sep 11 09:31:37 2001 Koma wrote post #409:
> On Mon Sep 10 23:26:41 2001 Wildchild wrote post #408:
> > On Mon Sep 10 10:25:20 2001 Durin wrote post #405:
> > > On Sat Sep  8 09:39:04 2001 Wildchild wrote post #404:
> > > > Ok, did some file cleaning on my webpage.
> > > > 
> > > > My eq list is still available to view. I am still looking to keep up
> > > > on guild eq & race leadership eq items, if anybody would like to
> > > > pass some info on to me or talk to me about 'em.
> > > > 
> > > > Added a link to Skillz's race table, since he's updated it. It's
> > > > pretty cool once you can figure the bloody thing out :)
> > > > 
> > > > If anybody has a site dedicated to RD mud that would like a link
> > > > from my site (only have HK, Kaz, & Kaeber right now, Skillz's race
> > > > table, and then Kaos & Apathy's eq lists), let me know.
> > > > 
> > > > Hopefully will get around to doing more with my maps, maybe add one
> > > > here and there to help newbies along, try and provide some info one
> > > > way or another on other areas, etc.
> > > > Also looking to getting up the pictures from Tank's mudcon 2 years
> > > > ago. They were on the web for quite awhile on Pavilion's website,
> > > > but after she took them down she was kind enough to send them to me
> > > > via e-mail (all bloody +50 of them)... I'll need help identifying a
> > > > couple of the lost souls in these pics... mostly those guys from
> > > > BatMUD that were there, but they don't matter, do they? :)
> > > > 
> > > > Anyway, they're cool pics, and for those of us that were there, it's
> > > > wonderful nostalgia, for the rest of you, it's more "oh god, (so and
> > > > so) looks like THAT!?... Run away!" :)
> > > > 
> > > > -WC
> > > 
> > > Could you get Khosan to send you Fincon 99 pics somehow, his section
> > > of the RD page has been down for ages now.
> > > 
> > > Moan.
> > > 
> > > -Durin
> > 
> > I talked to Khosan about that yesterday. He gave me a link from
> > which I can download all the pics. They're all like 300-500k in
> > size, so I might do some cropping, that and I need some help from
> > those there in identifying everybody, if any would volunteer.
> > 
> > -WC
> 
> I'll volunteer to ID people from the pics.
> 
> Komapoo

I found my lost www site. It's really ugly, but the fincon 2k pics
are there and also some descriptions about each pic:
http://www.geocities.com/komapoo2/fincon2k.html

-Koma

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: I thought this appropriate
date: Wed Sep 12 21:19:52 2001

Subject: America, the Good Neighbor
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:43:05 -0400

This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.

America: The Good Neighbor

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a
remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a
Canadian television commentator.

What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in
the Congressional Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as
the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all
the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy
were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in
billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of
these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining
debts to the United States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the
Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and
swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that
hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were
flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars
into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are
writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over
the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does
any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing
Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why
don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except
Russia fly American Planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman
on the moon?

You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk
about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about
American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but
several times - and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the
store window for everybody to look at.

Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here
on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian
laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend
here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking Down
through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the
Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody
loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of
other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone
else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was
outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is
damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out
of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are
entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over
their present troubles.  I hope Canada is not one of those."

----------

-WC

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: Food for thought
date: Thu Sep 13 01:11:09 2001

Here are a handfull of interpretations of the 
writings of nostradamus which can be seen as relevant to 
recent events.

St Francis at the nine corners of New Amsterdam (New York),
The earth trembles: fires, cries and terrors.
A great Antichrist, his lady (St Clare), and King of frights,
Prophecies to interpret as a result of woes.

A giant, fiery ball will drop from the skies onto the Square of Times 
in the New City of York, causing much screaming and shouting.

"In the year of the new century and nine months,
From the sky will come a great King of Terror...
The sky will burn at forty-five degrees.
Fire approaches the great new city..."

"In the city of York there will be a great collapse,
2 twin brothers torn apart by chaos
while the fortress falls the great leader will succumb
third big war will begin when the big city is burning"


     Out of the country of Greater Arabia 
     Shall be born a strong master of Mohammed... 
     He will enter Europe wearing a blue turban. 
     He will be the terror of mankind. 
     Never more horror. 

     In the year of the new century and nine months
     From the sky will come the great King of Terror. 
     He will bring back to life the King of the Mongols; 
     Before and after war reigns. 

     The war will last seven and twenty years. 

     The sky will burn at forty-five degrees. 
     Fire approaches the great new city.
     By fire he will destroy their city, 
     A cold and cruel heart, 
     Blood will pour, 
     Mercy to none.  (Guentte) 


     When those of the Northern Pole are united, 
     In the East will be great fear and dread... 
     One day the two great leaders will be friends; 
     Their great powers will be seen to grow. 
     The New Land will be at the height of its power: 
     To the man of blood the number is reported. 


Jaws

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Food for thought
date: Thu Sep 13 01:12:59 2001

>      By fire he will destroy their city, 
>      A cold and cruel heart, 
>      Blood will pour, 
>      Mercy to none.  (Guentte) 
> 
> 
>      When those of the Northern Pole are united, 
>      In the East will be great fear and dread... 
>      One day the two great leaders will be friends; 
>      Their great powers will be seen to grow. 
>      The New Land will be at the height of its power: 
>      To the man of blood the number is reported. 
> 
> 

Just wanted to mention that I think it was Javier that went looking
for that prophecy of Nostradmus' about hte twin brothers
falling. and that she couldnt find it in his prophecies.
> Jaws

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >>Food for thought
date: Thu Sep 13 01:14:50 2001

On Thu Sep 13 01:12:59 2001 Zifnab wrote post #413:
> >      By fire he will destroy their city, 
> >      A cold and cruel heart, 
> >      Blood will pour, 
> >      Mercy to none.  (Guentte) 
> > 
> > 
> >      When those of the Northern Pole are united, 
> >      In the East will be great fear and dread... 
> >      One day the two great leaders will be friends; 
> >      Their great powers will be seen to grow. 
> >      The New Land will be at the height of its power: 
> >      To the man of blood the number is reported. 
> > 
> > 
> 
> Just wanted to mention that I think it was Javier that went looking
> for that prophecy of Nostradmus' about hte twin brothers
> falling. and that she couldnt find it in his prophecies.
> > Jaws

I received an e-mail via a mailing stating that this "prophecy" was a hoax.
It was apparently created by a Canadian student as an example to
show how vague Nostradamus's predictions could be.

You can visit:
http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html
for more info regarding this "prediction".

I just think that the similarities between the wording of this
created prediction and the events themselves are why this appeared
as often as it has.

-WC

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: >>Food for thought
date: Thu Sep 13 01:15:53 2001

On Thu Sep 13 01:12:59 2001 Zifnab wrote post #413:
> >      By fire he will destroy their city, 
> >      A cold and cruel heart, 
> >      Blood will pour, 
> >      Mercy to none.  (Guentte) 
> > 
> > 
> >      When those of the Northern Pole are united, 
> >      In the East will be great fear and dread... 
> >      One day the two great leaders will be friends; 
> >      Their great powers will be seen to grow. 
> >      The New Land will be at the height of its power: 
> >      To the man of blood the number is reported. 
> > 
> > 
> 
> Just wanted to mention that I think it was Javier that went looking
> for that prophecy of Nostradmus' about hte twin brothers
> falling. and that she couldnt find it in his prophecies.
> > Jaws
Dunno, I don't speak french so I have to
rely on what others have translated.  From what I saw
while searching Nostradamus's original text is full of vague
references like cities of mountains which people take to mean
skyscrapers etc.

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: >>>Food for thought
date: Thu Sep 13 13:41:20 2001

On Thu Sep 13 01:14:50 2001 Wildchild wrote post #414:
> On Thu Sep 13 01:12:59 2001 Zifnab wrote post #413:
> > >      By fire he will destroy their city, 
> > >      A cold and cruel heart, 
> > >      Blood will pour, 
> > >      Mercy to none.  (Guentte) 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >      When those of the Northern Pole are united, 
> > >      In the East will be great fear and dread... 
> > >      One day the two great leaders will be friends; 
> > >      Their great powers will be seen to grow. 
> > >      The New Land will be at the height of its power: 
> > >      To the man of blood the number is reported. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > Just wanted to mention that I think it was Javier that went looking
> > for that prophecy of Nostradmus' about hte twin brothers
> > falling. and that she couldnt find it in his prophecies.
> > > Jaws
> 
> I received an e-mail via a mailing stating that this "prophecy" was a hoax.
> It was apparently created by a Canadian student as an example to
> show how vague Nostradamus's predictions could be.
> 
> You can visit:
> http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html
> for more info regarding this "prediction".
> 
> I just think that the similarities between the wording of this
> created prediction and the events themselves are why this appeared
> as often as it has.
> 
> -WC

This Canadian student is a prophet!!! ALL HAIL NEIL MARSHALL!!!


-----------------

poster: Red
subject: >I thought this appropriate
date: Thu Sep 13 14:56:53 2001

On Wed Sep 12 21:19:52 2001 Wildchild wrote post #411:
> Subject: America, the Good Neighbor
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:43:05 -0400
> 
> This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
> 
> America: The Good Neighbor
> 
> Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a
> remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a
> Canadian television commentator.
> 
> What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in
> the Congressional Record:
> 
> "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as
> the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all
> the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy
> were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in
> billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of
> these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining
> debts to the United States.
> 
> When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the
> Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and
> swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
> 
> When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that
> hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were
> flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.
> 
> The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars
> into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are
> writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.
> 
> I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over
> the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does
> any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing
> Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why
> don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except
> Russia fly American Planes?
> 
> Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman
> on the moon?
> 
> You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk
> about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about
> American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but
> several times - and safely home again.
> 
> You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the
> store window for everybody to look at.
> 
> Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here
> on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian
> laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend
> here.
> 
> When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking Down
> through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the
> Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody
> loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.
> 
> I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of
> other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone
> else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was
> outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
> 
> Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is
> damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out
> of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are
> entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over
> their present troubles.  I hope Canada is not one of those."
> 
> ----------
> 
> -WC
The people of Australia still remember what the
Americans did to protect our country during WWII. You
can be sure that you have the full support of all
Australians. We have all felt truely sickened by
what has happened. I will personally never
forget the events that took place and how
much it has changed me.
Red :(

-----------------

poster: Nightfall
subject: original broadcast
date: Thu Sep 13 22:50:10 2001


After reading this I went and found the orginal broadcasts, the
previous was a 
bit different.

Enclosed are two articles about this Broadcast. The first the
complete version 
of the broadcast. The second, how people reacted. Read if you like. But it is
worth it.

What is even better is hearing his broadcast. I found that also on the net.
If you have RealPlayer you MUST take the time to listen to it.

http://www.rcc.ryerson.ca/ccf/news/unique/american.ram


You may want to print this and read later. Reading both is somewhat long.
Americans are
harshly judged by the world we live in. Maybe that is because we are the
only nation in the world that can stand up to such scrutiny.





"LET'S BE PERSONAL"    Broadcast June 5, 1973     CFRB, Toronto, Ontario

Topic: "The Americans"



The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French and British
exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in West Germany.
It has declined there by 41% since 1971 and this Canadian thinks it is time
to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the
least-appreciated people in all the earth.

As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read
of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtse. Who rushed in with men and
money to help? The Americans did.

They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the
Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Misssissippi is under water and no
foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser
extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the
Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in
debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who
propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the
streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that
hurries into help... Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples.
So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by
tornadoes. Nobody has helped.

The Marshall Plan .. the Truman Policy .. all pumped billions upon billions
of dollars into discouraged countries. Now, newspapers in those countries
are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.

I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of
the United States dollar build its own airplanes.

Come on... let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane
to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 107? If
so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia
fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a
man or women on the moon?

You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about
German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American
technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times ...
and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs
right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers
are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of them ...
unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from
Ma and Pa at home to spend here.

When the Americans get out of this bind ... as they will... who could blame
them if they said 'the hell with the rest of the world'. Let someone else
buy the Israel bonds, Let someone else build or repair foreign dams or
design foreign buildings that won't shake apart in earthquakes.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through
age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad
and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both
are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to
the help of other people in trouble.

Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in
trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco
earthquake.

Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired
of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their
flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the
lands that are gloating over their present troubles.

I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous
Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual
meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.

This year's disasters .. with the year less than half-over. has taken it all
and nobody...but nobody... has helped.

ORIGINAL SCRIPT AND AUDIO
COURTESY STANDARD BROADCASTING CORPORATION LTD.

(c) 1973 BY GORDON SINCLAIR


PUBLISHED BY STAR QUALITY MUSIC (SOCAN)

A DIVISION OF UNIDISC MUSIC INC.

578 HYMUS BOULEVARD

POINTE-CLAIRE, QUEBEC,

CANADA, H9R 4T2




Back to "The Americans" Overview





News Broadcasting - "Unique Stories"

"The Americans" - by Gordon Sinclair


On June 5, 1973, Gordon Sinclair sat up in bed in Toronto and turned on his
TV set. The United States had just pulled out of the Vietnamese War which
had ended in a stalemate - a war fought daily on TV, over the radio and in
the press. The aftermath of that war resulted in a world-wide sell-off of
American investments, prices tumbled, the United States economy was in
trouble. The war had also divided the American people, and at home and
abroad it seemed everyone was lambasting the United States.

He turned on his radio, twisted the dial and turned it off. He picked up the
morning paper. In print, he saw in headlines what he had found on TV and
radio - the Americans were taking a verbal beating from nations around the
world. Disgusted with what he saw and heard, he was outraged!


At 10:30, on his arrival at CFRB to prepare his two pre-noon broadcasts, he
strode into his office and "dashed-off" two pages in 20 minutes for LET'S BE
PERSONAL at 11:45 am, and then turned to writing his 11:50 newscast that was
to follow. At 12:01 pm, the script for LET'S BE PERSONAL was dropped on the
desk of his secretary who scanned the pages for a suitable heading and then
wrote "Americans"" across the top and filed it away. The phones were already
ringing.


Gordon Sinclair could not have written a book that could have had a greater
impact in the world than his two-page script for THE AMERICANS. A book
should have been written on the events that followed. But, no one at CFRB,
including Sinclair himself, could have envisioned the reaction of the people
of the United States - from presidents - state governors - Congress - the
Senate - all media including TV, radio, newspapers, magazines - and from the
"ordinary" American on the street. Nor could have the Canadian government -
stunned by the response to what has come to be regarded as one of Canada's
greatest public relations feats in the history of our relations with the
United States of America.


But, how did Sinclair's tribute to Americans reach them? It had been swept
across the United States at the speed of a prairie fire by American radio
stations - first, a station in Buffalo called and asked to be fed a tape
copy of the broadcast with permission to use - both freely given. Nearby
American stations obtained copies from Buffalo or called direct. By the time
it reached the Washington, DC area, a station had superimposed Sinc's
broadcast over an instrumental version of BRIDGE OVER TROUBLED WATER, and
was repeating it at fixed times several times a day.


Congressmen and Senators heard it. It was read several times into the
Congressional Record. Assuming that it was on a phono (33 1/3 rpm),
Americans started a search for a copy. CFRB was contacted. To satisfy the
demand, CFRB started to make arrangements with AVCO, an American record
company, to manufacture and distribute it as a "single".


As they were finalizing a contract that would see all royalties which would
normally be due Gordon Sinclair be paid (at his request) to the American Red
Cross, word was received that an unauthorized record, using Sinclair's
script but read by another broadcaster, was already flooding the US market.
(Subsequently, on learning that this broadcaster had agreed to turn over his
royalties to the Red Cross, no legal action was taken).

Sinclair's recording of his own work (to which Avco had added a stirring
rendition of THE BATTLE HYMN OF THE REPUBLIC) did finally reach record
stores, and sold hundreds of thousands of copies, but the potential numbers
were depressed by the sale of the infringing record. Other record producers
and performers (including Tex Ritter) obtained legal permission to make
their own versions. In Ritter's case, because of the first-person style of
the script, Tex preceded his performance with a proper credit to Sinclair as
the author. The American Red Cross received millions of dollars in
royalties, and Gordon Sinclair was present at a special ceremony
acknowledging his donation.


Advertisers using print media contacted CFRB for permission to publish the
text in a non-commercial manner; industrial plants asked for the right to
print the script in leaflet form to handout to their employees.


Gordon Sinclair received invitations to attend and be honoured at many
functions in the United States which, by number and due to family health
problems at the time, he had to decline. However, CFRB newscaster Charles
Doering, was flown to Washington to give a public reading of THE AMERICANS
to the 28th National Convention of the United States Air Force Association,
held September 18, 1974 at the Sheraton Park Hotel. His presentation was
performed with the on-stage backing of the U.S. Air Force Concert Band,
joined by the 100-voice Singing Sergeants in a special arrangement of The
Battle Hymn of the Republic.


8 years after the first broadcast of THE AMERICANS, U.S. President Ronald
Reagan made his first official visit to Canada. At the welcoming ceremonies
on Parliament Hill, the new President praised "the Canadian journalist who
wrote that (tribute)" to the United States when it needed a friend. Prime
Minister Pierre Trudeau had Sinclair flown to Ottawa to be his guest at the
reception that evening.


Sinc had a long and pleasant conversation with Mr. Reagan. The President
told him that he had a copy of the record of THE AMERICANS at his California
ranch home when he was governor of the state, and played it from time to
time when things looked gloomy.


On the evening of May 15th, 1984, following a regular day's broadcasting,
Gordon Sinclair suffered a heart attack. He died on May 17th. As the word of
his illness spread throughout the United States, calls inquiring about his
condition had been received from as far away as Texas. The editorial in the
Sarasota Herald-Tribune of May 28th was typical of the reaction of the
United States news media - A GOOD FRIEND PASSES ON.


U.S. President Ronald Reagan: "I know I speak for all Americans in saying
the radio editorial Gordon wrote in 1973 praising the accomplishments of the
United States was a wonderful inspiration. It was not only critics abroad
who forgot this nation's many great achievements, but even critics here at
home. Gordon Sinclair reminded us to take pride in our nation's fundamental
values."


Former Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau: "Gordon Sinclair's death ends one of
the longest and most remarkable careers in Canadian Journalism. His wit,
irreverence, bluntness and off-beat views have been part of the media
landscape for so long that many Canadians had come to believe he would
always be there."

Following a private family service, two thousand people from all walks of
life filled Nathan Phillips Square in front of Toronto's City Hall for a
public service of remembrance organized by Mayor Art Eggleton. Dignitaries
joining him on the platform were Ontario Lieutenant-Governor, John Black
Aird; the Premier of Ontario, William Davis; and Metro Chairman Paul
Godfrey. Tens of thousands more joined them through CFRB's live broadcast of
the service which began symbolically at 11:45 - the regular time of Sinc's
daily broadcast of LET'S BE PERSONAL.


As Ontario Premier William Davis said of him "The name GORDON SINCLAIR could
become the classic definition of a full life."


(recalled by J. Lyman Potts who was "there")


yes I know it was long.

  -NF


-----------------

poster: Dalak
subject: >>I thought this appropriate
date: Thu Sep 13 23:09:44 2001

On Thu Sep 13 14:56:53 2001 Red wrote post #417:
> On Wed Sep 12 21:19:52 2001 Wildchild wrote post #411:
> > Subject: America, the Good Neighbor
> > Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:43:05 -0400
> > 
> > This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
> > 
> > America: The Good Neighbor
> > 
> > Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a
> > remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a
> > Canadian television commentator.
> > 
> > What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in
> > the Congressional Record:
> > 
> > "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as
> > the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all
> > the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy
> > were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in
> > billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of
> > these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining
> > debts to the United States.
> > 
> > When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the
> > Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and
> > swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
> > 
> > When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that
> > hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were
> > flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.
> > 
> > The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars
> > into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are
> > writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.
> > 
> > I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over
> > the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does
> > any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing
> > Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why
> > don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except
> > Russia fly American Planes?
> > 
> > Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman
> > on the moon?
> > 
> > You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk
> > about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about
> > American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but
> > several times - and safely home again.
> > 
> > You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the
> > store window for everybody to look at.
> > 
> > Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here
> > on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian
> > laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend
> > here.
> > 
> > When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking Down
> > through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the
> > Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody
> > loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.
> > 
> > I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of
> > other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone
> > else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was
> > outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
> > 
> > Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is
> > damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out
> > of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are
> > entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over
> > their present troubles.  I hope Canada is not one of those."
> > 
> > ----------
> > 
> > -WC
> The people of Australia still remember what the
> Americans did to protect our country during WWII. You
> can be sure that you have the full support of all
> Australians. We have all felt truely sickened by
> what has happened. I will personally never
> forget the events that took place and how
> much it has changed me.
> Red :(
It is good to know that we have good people like those from the land
of Oz to give us support, wether its in medical aid, or just good
old fashioned moral support.
Thanks Red, your comments lightened my day.
Dal

-----------------

poster: Unix
subject: sorry
date: Fri Sep 14 06:21:33 2001

I have to say im sorry for me being a total jerk 2 days ago on chat
chan, lot of things not goinging right atm, very upset, sorry i was
such a druken fool.

-----------------

poster: Ant
subject: Hmm...
date: Fri Sep 14 08:20:15 2001

I'm probably going to be flamed to the next millenium for this and
will probably end up in a load of trouble, but please try and see
my point of view.

I find it very disturbing, if not appalling, that this WTC/Pentagon
thing is the biggest thing on the news atm. Of course, it's a
terrible tragedy and I mourn for all the victims of this act, but
still I find myself wondering how this thing is so much different
from all the other inhuman acts that have, and are happening all
over the world. I can't help and wonder that if this had happened
in some other country, this wouldn't be such a big issue, at least
from the media's point of view.

Massacres, 'ethnic cleansings', etc, in which tens, hundreds of
thousands of people have been killed in the most horrible ways.
A majority of the casualities of the WTC/Pentagon-incident died
almost instantly. They are the lucky ones. In many countries, 
during the massacres, etc, people have been killed after being
gangraped, mutilated, tortured... And do we hear about that on
the news? Possibly... There will probably be a 1-2 minute report
about it, when the WTC/Pentagon-issue has been ALL over the news
for a couple of days, and will probably stay there for quite some
time.

Please keep in mind, that I'm not underestimating the severeness of
the things that happened in the US a couple of days ago - I just
don't see why it seems to be the biggest, most awful thing in the world.

- Ant


-----------------

poster: Bahgtru
subject: >>>I thought this was appropriate
date: Fri Sep 14 10:43:41 2001

Just after what Red said, I think that nothing would be able to stop
any Australian from running up to whoever started this and slitting
his throat, regardless of how many colleagues he has around him.

It sickened me out totally, and I personally wish I could fly one
straight into that dickhead's house.

- Steaming bag o' poop

-----------------

poster: Nightfall
subject: >Hmm...
date: Fri Sep 14 10:56:21 2001


  It's because of one thing.  Even if the US was to have a closed
international policy, not taking one side or another.  Not offending
anyone in anyway.  We would still be used for our Media.  Masses
are cattle and slaves to the media.  Terrorisms number one ally today
is the media.  It can spread terror and fear faster than anything
and we have the largest and the 'best' media.

  -NF


-----------------

poster: Zax
subject: >>Hmm...
date: Fri Sep 14 18:27:04 2001

On Fri Sep 14 10:56:21 2001 Nightfall wrote post #423:
>   It's because of one thing.  Even if the US was to have a closed
> international policy, not taking one side or another.  Not offending
> anyone in anyway.  We would still be used for our Media.  Masses
> are cattle and slaves to the media.  Terrorisms number one ally today
> is the media.  It can spread terror and fear faster than anything
> and we have the largest and the 'best' media.
> 
>   -NF
> 

The US is used for it's media therefore coverage is continuing
non-stop about the crisis? Terrorists are in control of the media
outlets forcing more coverage out onto the streets?
I'm not sure NF is quite addressing the issue as I understand it. I
personally am finding the non-stop inyourface repititious news
coverage to be overbearing, to the extent that I would rather watch
grass grow then watch TV.

also my condolences to a few people on here who have lost friends/family

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >Hmm...
date: Fri Sep 14 18:27:28 2001

On Fri Sep 14 08:20:15 2001 Ant wrote post #421:
> I'm probably going to be flamed to the next millenium for this and
> will probably end up in a load of trouble, but please try and see
> my point of view.
> 
> I find it very disturbing, if not appalling, that this WTC/Pentagon
> thing is the biggest thing on the news atm. Of course, it's a
> terrible tragedy and I mourn for all the victims of this act, but
> still I find myself wondering how this thing is so much different
> from all the other inhuman acts that have, and are happening all
> over the world. I can't help and wonder that if this had happened
> in some other country, this wouldn't be such a big issue, at least
> from the media's point of view.
> 
> Massacres, 'ethnic cleansings', etc, in which tens, hundreds of
> thousands of people have been killed in the most horrible ways.
> A majority of the casualities of the WTC/Pentagon-incident died
> almost instantly. They are the lucky ones. In many countries, 
> during the massacres, etc, people have been killed after being
> gangraped, mutilated, tortured... And do we hear about that on
> the news? Possibly... There will probably be a 1-2 minute report
> about it, when the WTC/Pentagon-issue has been ALL over the news
> for a couple of days, and will probably stay there for quite some
> time.
> 
> Please keep in mind, that I'm not underestimating the severeness of
> the things that happened in the US a couple of days ago - I just
> don't see why it seems to be the biggest, most awful thing in the world.
> 
> - Ant
> 

While in general I would agree with you Ant ... especially in the
cases of the OJ Simpson trial/hearing and the immense coverage given
to JFK Jr's untimely demise ... this event seems worthly of the
front page at least.  What else is going on right now that is more
important/impacting?

-----------------

poster: Rizzly
subject: >Hmm...
date: Fri Sep 14 21:17:04 2001

On Fri Sep 14 08:20:15 2001 Ant wrote post #421:
> I'm probably going to be flamed to the next millenium for this and
> will probably end up in a load of trouble, but please try and see
> my point of view.
> 
> I find it very disturbing, if not appalling, that this WTC/Pentagon
> thing is the biggest thing on the news atm. Of course, it's a
> terrible tragedy and I mourn for all the victims of this act, but
> still I find myself wondering how this thing is so much different
> from all the other inhuman acts that have, and are happening all
> over the world. I can't help and wonder that if this had happened
> in some other country, this wouldn't be such a big issue, at least
> from the media's point of view.
> 
> Massacres, 'ethnic cleansings', etc, in which tens, hundreds of
> thousands of people have been killed in the most horrible ways.
> A majority of the casualities of the WTC/Pentagon-incident died
> almost instantly. They are the lucky ones. In many countries, 
> during the massacres, etc, people have been killed after being
> gangraped, mutilated, tortured... And do we hear about that on
> the news? Possibly... There will probably be a 1-2 minute report
> about it, when the WTC/Pentagon-issue has been ALL over the news
> for a couple of days, and will probably stay there for quite some
> time.
> 
> Please keep in mind, that I'm not underestimating the severeness of
> the things that happened in the US a couple of days ago - I just
> don't see why it seems to be the biggest, most awful thing in the world.
> 
> - Ant
> 

I agree with you, Ant, in that this travisty has been
overpublicized.  However, I think that this is happening so much
because Americans believed themselves "safe" from all the other
countries, considering we are physically isolated from them by
thousands of miles in any direction.  I mean, we've blown ourselves
up before (eg Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing), we've
killed ourselves in countless murders and violent acts, but we've no
outside force has ever really damaged the mainland of America for as
long as anyone living can remember, and even longer than that still
-- the last time  American soil was spoiled by another power was the
War of 1812, though I may be wrong in this.

Anyway, the American media is interested primarily in propaganda,
which is why they are calling this terrorist act "America Under
Attack," a foolish, pointless, and untrue title if you ask me.  The
fact that this is unprecedented destruction coming on us from out of
the blue is why the media is all hyped up on this, and from their
point of view, nothing could be more important.  

Rizzly

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>Hmm...
date: Fri Sep 14 21:21:37 2001

On Fri Sep 14 21:17:04 2001 Rizzly wrote post #426:
> On Fri Sep 14 08:20:15 2001 Ant wrote post #421:
> > I'm probably going to be flamed to the next millenium for this and
> > will probably end up in a load of trouble, but please try and see
> > my point of view.
> > 
> > I find it very disturbing, if not appalling, that this WTC/Pentagon
> > thing is the biggest thing on the news atm. Of course, it's a
> > terrible tragedy and I mourn for all the victims of this act, but
> > still I find myself wondering how this thing is so much different
> > from all the other inhuman acts that have, and are happening all
> > over the world. I can't help and wonder that if this had happened
> > in some other country, this wouldn't be such a big issue, at least
> > from the media's point of view.
> > 
> > Massacres, 'ethnic cleansings', etc, in which tens, hundreds of
> > thousands of people have been killed in the most horrible ways.
> > A majority of the casualities of the WTC/Pentagon-incident died
> > almost instantly. They are the lucky ones. In many countries, 
> > during the massacres, etc, people have been killed after being
> > gangraped, mutilated, tortured... And do we hear about that on
> > the news? Possibly... There will probably be a 1-2 minute report
> > about it, when the WTC/Pentagon-issue has been ALL over the news
> > for a couple of days, and will probably stay there for quite some
> > time.
> > 
> > Please keep in mind, that I'm not underestimating the severeness of
> > the things that happened in the US a couple of days ago - I just
> > don't see why it seems to be the biggest, most awful thing in the world.
> > 
> > - Ant
> > 
> 
> I agree with you, Ant, in that this travisty has been
> overpublicized.  However, I think that this is happening so much
> because Americans believed themselves "safe" from all the other
> countries, considering we are physically isolated from them by
> thousands of miles in any direction.  I mean, we've blown ourselves
> up before (eg Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing), we've
> killed ourselves in countless murders and violent acts, but we've no
> outside force has ever really damaged the mainland of America for as
> long as anyone living can remember, and even longer than that still
> -- the last time  American soil was spoiled by another power was the
> War of 1812, though I may be wrong in this.
> 
> Anyway, the American media is interested primarily in propaganda,
> which is why they are calling this terrorist act "America Under
> Attack," a foolish, pointless, and untrue title if you ask me.  The
> fact that this is unprecedented destruction coming on us from out of
> the blue is why the media is all hyped up on this, and from their
> point of view, nothing could be more important.  
> 
> Rizzly
sleet
i dont think that title is as false as you say.
If it was just the three crashes that day then yes, but over the
last few days there has been more then one incident of people tryng
to board planes under fake identification, that were also carrying
box cutters,
they caught a man yesterday who tried bording a plane carrying crew
lugge that they stopped and check and he was armed, this leads me to
belive that title is true to its word and that this isnt one
terrioist attack but rather just the start of a number of incidents
or at leasts attepts in the near future.

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >Hmm...
date: Fri Sep 14 21:31:24 2001

On Fri Sep 14 08:20:15 2001 Ant wrote post #421:
> I'm probably going to be flamed to the next millenium for this and
> will probably end up in a load of trouble, but please try and see
> my point of view.
> 
> I find it very disturbing, if not appalling, that this WTC/Pentagon
> thing is the biggest thing on the news atm. Of course, it's a
> terrible tragedy and I mourn for all the victims of this act, but
> still I find myself wondering how this thing is so much different
> from all the other inhuman acts that have, and are happening all
> over the world. I can't help and wonder that if this had happened
> in some other country, this wouldn't be such a big issue, at least
> from the media's point of view.
> 
> Massacres, 'ethnic cleansings', etc, in which tens, hundreds of
> thousands of people have been killed in the most horrible ways.
> A majority of the casualities of the WTC/Pentagon-incident died
> almost instantly. They are the lucky ones. In many countries, 
> during the massacres, etc, people have been killed after being
> gangraped, mutilated, tortured... And do we hear about that on
> the news? Possibly... There will probably be a 1-2 minute report
> about it, when the WTC/Pentagon-issue has been ALL over the news
> for a couple of days, and will probably stay there for quite some
> time.
> 
> Please keep in mind, that I'm not underestimating the severeness of
> the things that happened in the US a couple of days ago - I just
> don't see why it seems to be the biggest, most awful thing in the world.
> 
> - Ant
> 
Nods, lots of stuff going on but this was a 
strike into the homeland of the acknowledged 
Superpower of the world. :P  One of our destroyers 
was actually sunk by terrorists, and a few 
embassies bombed out over the past year 
or two and those things barely lasted a week 
in our news.  Took a real slap 
in the face for us to care/notice.

In our defense, for all the other nasty stuff going on 
through africa and the mideast it's a two-edged sword 
whether we become involved or opt not to 
involve ourselves in the matter.  Oftentimes when we 
send in troops, there are grateful people and people that are all 
pissed off/generating conspiracy theories.  When the Iraqis were
INVADING Kuwait, 
we had cheeseheads railing against Bush Sr's decision to 
send in troops rather than just slap Iraq with 
a few years of sanctions(like Iraq would care about 
sanctions if they had half the world's oil supply in their 
hands).  On top of that, you had Iraqis and Iraqi-americans 
outraged and railing that it was some big racist 
conspiracy to kill arabs/nonwhites.
Tried to guard south vietnam, south korea and look what we got 
for that.  Trying to guard Israel which folks have been trying to 
invade constantly since the 70s, and we're 
accussed of supporting Israel's conquest of the mideast(wtf 
have they conquered?). We send in troops to guard/distribute aid
through africa 
and those get blownup by warlords and more terrorists, so we pull out.
Through the 90s and the kosovo thing most of our involvement was just to hand 
supplies and hardware over to the European Nations who 
supplied 90% of the troops/manpower in the latest humanitarian 
aid missions.  United States was on the verge of shifting back to 
a pseudo-isolationist policy by retracting our 
forces from more questionable operations and countries around the world.
Blowing up the WTC/Pentagon on our homeland will reverse that 
policy. I think that's why it'll bog down the news now.

-Pedron spam

-----------------

poster: Darkside
subject: praise
date: Fri Sep 14 21:53:59 2001

ponder  TOCK!
Want to thank rossano and blaze for a great party. :)
ponder  TOCK!
Want to thank rossano and blaze for a great party. :)**

-----------------

poster: Dirge
subject: >>Hmm...
date: Fri Sep 14 23:31:40 2001

On Fri Sep 14 21:17:04 2001 Rizzly wrote post #426:
> On Fri Sep 14 08:20:15 2001 Ant wrote post #421:
> > I'm probably going to be flamed to the next millenium for this and
> > will probably end up in a load of trouble, but please try and see
> > my point of view.
> > 
> > I find it very disturbing, if not appalling, that this WTC/Pentagon
> > thing is the biggest thing on the news atm. Of course, it's a
> > terrible tragedy and I mourn for all the victims of this act, but
> > still I find myself wondering how this thing is so much different
> > from all the other inhuman acts that have, and are happening all
> > over the world. I can't help and wonder that if this had happened
> > in some other country, this wouldn't be such a big issue, at least
> > from the media's point of view.
> > 
> > Massacres, 'ethnic cleansings', etc, in which tens, hundreds of
> > thousands of people have been killed in the most horrible ways.
> > A majority of the casualities of the WTC/Pentagon-incident died
> > almost instantly. They are the lucky ones. In many countries, 
> > during the massacres, etc, people have been killed after being
> > gangraped, mutilated, tortured... And do we hear about that on
> > the news? Possibly... There will probably be a 1-2 minute report
> > about it, when the WTC/Pentagon-issue has been ALL over the news
> > for a couple of days, and will probably stay there for quite some
> > time.
> > 
> > Please keep in mind, that I'm not underestimating the severeness of
> > the things that happened in the US a couple of days ago - I just
> > don't see why it seems to be the biggest, most awful thing in the world.
> > 
> > - Ant
> > 
> 
> I agree with you, Ant, in that this travisty has been
> overpublicized.  However, I think that this is happening so much
> because Americans believed themselves "safe" from all the other
> countries, considering we are physically isolated from them by
> thousands of miles in any direction.  I mean, we've blown ourselves
> up before (eg Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing), we've
> killed ourselves in countless murders and violent acts, but we've no
> outside force has ever really damaged the mainland of America for as
> long as anyone living can remember, and even longer than that still
> -- the last time  American soil was spoiled by another power was the
> War of 1812, though I may be wrong in this.
> 
> Anyway, the American media is interested primarily in propaganda,
> which is why they are calling this terrorist act "America Under
> Attack," a foolish, pointless, and untrue title if you ask me.  The
> fact that this is unprecedented destruction coming on us from out of
> the blue is why the media is all hyped up on this, and from their
> point of view, nothing could be more important.  
> 
> Rizzly
last time US was attacked on US soil was Pearl Harbor in WW2. 
deathtoll in this is approximately double that.  Or if you want add
the deathtoll from pearl harbor and either the titanic or lusitania
and then this deathtoll is still higher.  They're expecting 5000+.
In contrast, look at the press the Oklahoma City bombing got.  Prior
to this it was the largest terrorist act on US soil.  We're still
hearing about it on the news, and approx 186? people were killed
(i'm embarrassed. i'm from okc and I cant remember how many...)
The WTC/Pentagon attack is now the largest terrorist act on record
in the world.  It is deserving of some press.
I, like you, am getting tired of seeing it on almost all the
stations all the time.  Mainly because its so depressing and so
enraging.  
--dirge-

-----------------

poster: Waz
subject: real sickos
date: Sat Sep 15 01:29:23 2001


Just got this by email...gotta love some 'Americans'

Television evangelists Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, two of the
most prominent voices of the religious right, said liberal civil
liberties groups, feminists, homosexuals and abortion rights
supporters bear partial
responsibility for Tuesday's terrorist attacks because their actions
have turned God's anger against America.

"God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America
to give us probably what we deserve," said Falwell, appearing
yesterday on the Christian Broadcasting Network's "700 Club," hosted
by Robertson.

"Jerry, that's my feeling," Robertson responded. "I think we've just
seen the antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what
they can do to the major population."

Falwell said the American Civil Liberties Union has "got to take a
lot of blame for this," again winning Robertson's agreement: "Well,
yes."

Then Falwell broadened his blast to include the federal courts and
others who he said were "throwing God out of the public square." He
added: "The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this
because God will not be
mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we
make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the
abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who
are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU,
People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to
secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You
helped this happen.' "

People for the American Way transcribed the broadcast and denounced
the comments as running directly counter to President Bush's call
for national unity. Ralph G. Neas, the liberal group's president,
called the remarks
"absolutely inappropriate and irresponsible."

Robertson and others on the religious right gave critical backing to
Bush last year when he was battling for the GOP presidential
nomination. A White House official called the remarks
"inappropriate" and added, "The president
does not share those views."

Falwell was unrepentant, saying in an interview that he was "making
a theological statement, not a legal statement."

"I put all the blame legally and morally on the actions of the
terrorist," he said. But he said America's "secular and
anti-Christian environment left us open to our Lord's [decision] not
to protect. When a nation deserts God
and expels God from the culture . . . the result is not good."

Robertson was not available for comment, a spokeswoman said. But she
released a statement echoing the remarks he made on his show. An
ACLU spokeswoman said the group "will not dignify the
Falwell-Robertson remarks with a comment."


-----------------

poster: Rizzly
subject: >>>Hmm...
date: Sat Sep 15 02:34:03 2001

On Fri Sep 14 23:31:40 2001 Dirge wrote post #430:
> On Fri Sep 14 21:17:04 2001 Rizzly wrote post #426:
> > On Fri Sep 14 08:20:15 2001 Ant wrote post #421:
> > > I'm probably going to be flamed to the next millenium for this and
> > > will probably end up in a load of trouble, but please try and see
> > > my point of view.
> > > 
> > > I find it very disturbing, if not appalling, that this WTC/Pentagon
> > > thing is the biggest thing on the news atm. Of course, it's a
> > > terrible tragedy and I mourn for all the victims of this act, but
> > > still I find myself wondering how this thing is so much different
> > > from all the other inhuman acts that have, and are happening all
> > > over the world. I can't help and wonder that if this had happened
> > > in some other country, this wouldn't be such a big issue, at least
> > > from the media's point of view.
> > > 
> > > Massacres, 'ethnic cleansings', etc, in which tens, hundreds of
> > > thousands of people have been killed in the most horrible ways.
> > > A majority of the casualities of the WTC/Pentagon-incident died
> > > almost instantly. They are the lucky ones. In many countries, 
> > > during the massacres, etc, people have been killed after being
> > > gangraped, mutilated, tortured... And do we hear about that on
> > > the news? Possibly... There will probably be a 1-2 minute report
> > > about it, when the WTC/Pentagon-issue has been ALL over the news
> > > for a couple of days, and will probably stay there for quite some
> > > time.
> > > 
> > > Please keep in mind, that I'm not underestimating the severeness of
> > > the things that happened in the US a couple of days ago - I just
> > > don't see why it seems to be the biggest, most awful thing in the world.
> > > 
> > > - Ant
> > > 
> > 
> > I agree with you, Ant, in that this travisty has been
> > overpublicized.  However, I think that this is happening so much
> > because Americans believed themselves "safe" from all the other
> > countries, considering we are physically isolated from them by
> > thousands of miles in any direction.  I mean, we've blown ourselves
> > up before (eg Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing), we've
> > killed ourselves in countless murders and violent acts, but we've no
> > outside force has ever really damaged the mainland of America for as
> > long as anyone living can remember, and even longer than that still
> > -- the last time  American soil was spoiled by another power was the
> > War of 1812, though I may be wrong in this.
> > 
> > Anyway, the American media is interested primarily in propaganda,
> > which is why they are calling this terrorist act "America Under
> > Attack," a foolish, pointless, and untrue title if you ask me.  The
> > fact that this is unprecedented destruction coming on us from out of
> > the blue is why the media is all hyped up on this, and from their
> > point of view, nothing could be more important.  
> > 
> > Rizzly
> last time US was attacked on US soil was Pearl Harbor in WW2. 
> deathtoll in this is approximately double that.  Or if you want add
> the deathtoll from pearl harbor and either the titanic or lusitania
> and then this deathtoll is still higher.  They're expecting 5000+.
> In contrast, look at the press the Oklahoma City bombing got.  Prior
> to this it was the largest terrorist act on US soil.  We're still
> hearing about it on the news, and approx 186? people were killed
> (i'm embarrassed. i'm from okc and I cant remember how many...)
> The WTC/Pentagon attack is now the largest terrorist act on record
> in the world.  It is deserving of some press.
> I, like you, am getting tired of seeing it on almost all the
> stations all the time.  Mainly because its so depressing and so
> enraging.  
> --dirge-

I meant the last time the US was attacked on mainland soil.  Pearl
Harbor was in Hawaii, which is American soil, but most people
probably had never been there, and did not have the personal feeling
of actually having been there and seeing what was destroyed.  Plus,
Hawaii is 5,000 miles off of the mainland, whereas New York and D.C.
are "right in our backyards," comparatively.

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>>>Hmm...
date: Sat Sep 15 04:19:58 2001

> I meant the last time the US was attacked on mainland soil.  Pearl
> Harbor was in Hawaii, which is American soil, but most people
> probably had never been there, and did not have the personal feeling
> of actually having been there and seeing what was destroyed.  Plus,
> Hawaii is 5,000 miles off of the mainland, whereas New York and D.C.
> are "right in our backyards," comparatively.
hawaii wasnt actually a state at that time, it became one in 1959

and as to the coverage, jes there have been worse travesties
but for lack of a better explanation this had flair/style.  I mean
taking out 2 huge buildings by ramming planes into em, watching em
come crashing down, seeing people decide that jumping from the 100th
floor is the better way out.  it is much more something that sticks
in your brain more than knowing someone got shot thousands of miles
away.  Who even cares when someone in there own state gets shot for
the most part.  It is the sad state of human affairs.

as to the religious thing, assume you believe in God, you may not
agree that God has taken away his protectiong, but it hard to deny
that all over america people are gathering together and praying. 
sort of 'sometimes God has to knock you on your back to make you
look up'. 

just some random takes on it
Magneto

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>>>Hmm...
date: Sat Sep 15 06:13:36 2001

just alittle side note, back to WC post not sure how to get back to
there but death toll is exspected to be alot more then 5000 just
from one of the towers, let alone both of them and including the
deaths in the pentagon, instead of 5000+ might end up being closer
to 50000, though i do hope your right and maybe all thoughs peopel
un acounted for found an air buble in the building or are maybe just
lost somewhere in manhattan or somthign 
sleet

-----------------

poster: Myrddin
subject: press
date: Sat Sep 15 07:07:43 2001

i agree that there is problems with the media but i feel that the
majority of them are caused by the media themselves
sleets post about the people who were arrested for having fake
pilots papers and box cutters did occur
but they were all released when the authorities discovered that they
were in fact actuall pilots who had no weapons but unfortunately
were arab americans
the problem with the media is not the over coverage its the creative coverage
as to the whole issue about the last time this happened...the last
time this many people died on american soil was the civil war
myrddins 3 cents

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >press
date: Sat Sep 15 07:10:34 2001

On Sat Sep 15 07:07:43 2001 Myrddin wrote post #435:
> i agree that there is problems with the media but i feel that the
> majority of them are caused by the media themselves
> sleets post about the people who were arrested for having fake
> pilots papers and box cutters did occur
> but they were all released when the authorities discovered that they
> were in fact actuall pilots who had no weapons but unfortunately
> were arab americans
> the problem with the media is not the over coverage its the creative
coverage
> as to the whole issue about the last time this happened...the last
> time this many people died on american soil was the civil war
> myrddins 3 cents
no one that was arrested at laguardia i think(not usre bout airport
knew was one of the 3 in ny) is still currently being held atm.
He is not being charge though, beign held as some kind of witness or somthing.
But he is being held and their was a warrent for his arrest. 

-----------------

poster: Myrddin
subject: >>press
date: Sat Sep 15 07:12:28 2001

On Sat Sep 15 07:10:34 2001 Sleet wrote post #436:
> On Sat Sep 15 07:07:43 2001 Myrddin wrote post #435:
> > i agree that there is problems with the media but i feel that the
> > majority of them are caused by the media themselves
> > sleets post about the people who were arrested for having fake
> > pilots papers and box cutters did occur
> > but they were all released when the authorities discovered that they
> > were in fact actuall pilots who had no weapons but unfortunately
> > were arab americans
> > the problem with the media is not the over coverage its the creative
> coverage
> > as to the whole issue about the last time this happened...the last
> > time this many people died on american soil was the civil war
> > myrddins 3 cents
> no one that was arrested at laguardia i think(not usre bout airport
> knew was one of the 3 in ny) is still currently being held atm.
> He is not being charge though, beign held as some kind of witness or
somthing.
> But he is being held and their was a warrent for his arrest. 
damn ignorance

-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: Letter to the President
date: Sun Sep 16 05:33:10 2001

I might as well post this here since I know the original recipient
will never read it...

Attn: President George W. Bush 
Cc: Vice President Dick Cheney, First Lady Laura Bush, Mrs. Lynne Cheney


Mr President,

   Please reconsider any thoughts of air strikes or missile attacks
to respond to the terrorist attacks on our country.

   As a Christian, Jesus asks us to love and pray for our enemies.
This included those who killed Him just as viciously as those killed
this week. He asks us to do the same. This is one of the most
important tenants of Christianity. As a Christian yourself, I'm sure
that you can see that killing is not how Jesus wants us to respond.


   As a realist, killing the leaders of those who hate us will only
strengthen the hatred, leading only to more and more people willing
to give their lives to see us dead and terrified. Right now, nearly
the entire world is behind us in our grief. If we begin killing,
that support will begin failing.

   Don't you see, the terrorists _knew_ that we would respond with
military power. They _want_ us to begin killing! They want us to act
like the world's oppressor! They want to increase the hatred for our
country! That was the whole point to their actions!

   Terrorists know all about war. They expect war; war strengthens
them and gives them justification for their actions. Their goal is
to begin wars, to bring about hate, to end lives. Terrorists do not
know about peace. Peace confuses them. It undermines their support.
It shows that they are wrong.

   Please, do something truly unexpected. Use this opportunity to
peacefully build world support against terrorism. Strengthen the
world resolve against countries who harbor terrorists. Let those who
use terrorism find themselves homeless and without funding.

   Do not justify their actions with petty revenge. Do not lose this
chance to show that people who kill are wrong. Do not do the same. 

   Please, please, do not do the same.


< My name and address removed =) >


--Marvin


-----------------

poster: Miciaih
subject: michigan
date: Sun Sep 16 05:34:22 2001

this is just a note for everybody that lives in, or can drive to,
ann arbor michigan i am going to try and set up something where in a
month we all can meet up and see the faces of the peaple in the mud.
please send me a mudmail i will keep all posted.

-----------------

poster: Mirrim
subject: >Letter to the President
date: Sun Sep 16 14:43:17 2001

On Sun Sep 16 05:33:10 2001 Marvin wrote post #438:
> I might as well post this here since I know the original recipient
> will never read it...
> 
> Attn: President George W. Bush 
> Cc: Vice President Dick Cheney, First Lady Laura Bush, Mrs. Lynne Cheney
> 
> 
> Mr President,
> 
>    Please reconsider any thoughts of air strikes or missile attacks
> to respond to the terrorist attacks on our country.
> 
>    As a Christian, Jesus asks us to love and pray for our enemies.
> This included those who killed Him just as viciously as those killed
> this week. He asks us to do the same. This is one of the most
> important tenants of Christianity. As a Christian yourself, I'm sure
> that you can see that killing is not how Jesus wants us to respond.
> 
> 
>    As a realist, killing the leaders of those who hate us will only
> strengthen the hatred, leading only to more and more people willing
> to give their lives to see us dead and terrified. Right now, nearly
> the entire world is behind us in our grief. If we begin killing,
> that support will begin failing.
> 
>    Don't you see, the terrorists _knew_ that we would respond with
> military power. They _want_ us to begin killing! They want us to act
> like the world's oppressor! They want to increase the hatred for our
> country! That was the whole point to their actions!
> 
>    Terrorists know all about war. They expect war; war strengthens
> them and gives them justification for their actions. Their goal is
> to begin wars, to bring about hate, to end lives. Terrorists do not
> know about peace. Peace confuses them. It undermines their support.
> It shows that they are wrong.
> 
>    Please, do something truly unexpected. Use this opportunity to
> peacefully build world support against terrorism. Strengthen the
> world resolve against countries who harbor terrorists. Let those who
> use terrorism find themselves homeless and without funding.
> 
>    Do not justify their actions with petty revenge. Do not lose this
> chance to show that people who kill are wrong. Do not do the same. 
> 
>    Please, please, do not do the same.
> 
> 
> < My name and address removed =) >
> 
> 
> --Marvin
> 
Jesus was perfect. We are not. 7 out of 10 people believe we should
retaliate. You can turn the other cheek only so many times before
you have to fight back. I've already said, "I love you, Bin Laden.
You're dead!" We are loving our enemy by sending them to their
"Great Reward". 

-----------------

poster: Spiraldancer
subject: Marvin's Letter
date: Mon Sep 17 00:05:49 2001

 I don't normally post anything but Marvin's message has moved me
very, very much. In a world of quick answers and seemingly endless
violence (even amongst the so-called righteous and "holy") it warms
my heart to see someone who believes in the scriptures of love and
forgiveness. I gave up long ago on almost all religion, organized or
otherwise, as it all appeared to be cattle driving, merely giving
people a reason to do bad and feel secure in it through "donating"
for their forgiveness. Now, before anyone anyone condemns this
heathen I was born and raised DEEP southern baptist and I was taken
to church to raise God's name up and praise His glory and all that.
I never once, not _once_, saw someone actually try to live let alone
speak on the true message of love and peace. I only say racist
biggots and old charlattens (sp?) praising Jesus so they and their
christian breathren could have this singular life of salvation. This
outlook has brought me into Agnostisism for the last 11 years. Until
today. Marvin, you are an example of love and forgiveness that this
non-believer has never, ever seen the likes of before but I would
really like to see again and again and again.
I have not been to church for more than a decade. This week will
break that cycle. Thank you Marvin.
Thank you.

-Spiral

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: Assassins
date: Mon Sep 17 02:42:42 2001

Was talking to Squee of all people, and it occurred to me the terrorists 
would just hide among the innocent/normal folks in whatever villages 
knowing we wouldn't attack those(would risk alienating ourselves 
blowing up villages of people to get the terrorists).

I'm thinking we should just go with assassins and kill rather than 
apprehend or bomb anyone found to be a terrorist.  Probably 
safe to flatten the terrorist camps with missiles/bombs, but 
it'll take assassins to get past the shields of innocents and children 
these kinds of people would hide behind. *glances at saddam
surrounded by kids*

That's my big last nickle.  We do have senators advocating assassination now 
too.

-pedron ultraspam

ps> is my big last nickle on this subject(I think).  still gonna 
spam it up on other stuff. :)

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >Marvin's Letter
date: Mon Sep 17 04:20:21 2001

On Mon Sep 17 00:05:49 2001 Spiraldancer wrote post #441:
>  I don't normally post anything but Marvin's message has moved me
> very, very much. In a world of quick answers and seemingly endless
> violence (even amongst the so-called righteous and "holy") it warms
> my heart to see someone who believes in the scriptures of love and
> forgiveness. I gave up long ago on almost all religion, organized or
> otherwise, as it all appeared to be cattle driving, merely giving
> people a reason to do bad and feel secure in it through "donating"
> for their forgiveness. Now, before anyone anyone condemns this
> heathen I was born and raised DEEP southern baptist and I was taken
> to church to raise God's name up and praise His glory and all that.
> I never once, not _once_, saw someone actually try to live let alone
> speak on the true message of love and peace. I only say racist
> biggots and old charlattens (sp?) praising Jesus so they and their
> christian breathren could have this singular life of salvation. This
> outlook has brought me into Agnostisism for the last 11 years. Until
> today. Marvin, you are an example of love and forgiveness that this
> non-believer has never, ever seen the likes of before but I would
> really like to see again and again and again.
> I have not been to church for more than a decade. This week will
> break that cycle. Thank you Marvin.
> Thank you.
> 
> -Spiral
I'm an atheist, but even so I can be impressed by a theist who truly
follows the message of peace in their religion even under severe
provocation.  Marvin is such a person, and I am impressed by them.

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>Marvin's Letter
date: Mon Sep 17 05:54:25 2001

On Mon Sep 17 04:20:21 2001 Tahnval wrote post #443:
> On Mon Sep 17 00:05:49 2001 Spiraldancer wrote post #441:
> >  I don't normally post anything but Marvin's message has moved me
> > very, very much. In a world of quick answers and seemingly endless
> > violence (even amongst the so-called righteous and "holy") it warms
> > my heart to see someone who believes in the scriptures of love and
> > forgiveness. I gave up long ago on almost all religion, organized or
> > otherwise, as it all appeared to be cattle driving, merely giving
> > people a reason to do bad and feel secure in it through "donating"
> > for their forgiveness. Now, before anyone anyone condemns this
> > heathen I was born and raised DEEP southern baptist and I was taken
> > to church to raise God's name up and praise His glory and all that.
> > I never once, not _once_, saw someone actually try to live let alone
> > speak on the true message of love and peace. I only say racist
> > biggots and old charlattens (sp?) praising Jesus so they and their
> > christian breathren could have this singular life of salvation. This
> > outlook has brought me into Agnostisism for the last 11 years. Until
> > today. Marvin, you are an example of love and forgiveness that this
> > non-believer has never, ever seen the likes of before but I would
> > really like to see again and again and again.
> > I have not been to church for more than a decade. This week will
> > break that cycle. Thank you Marvin.
> > Thank you.
> > 
> > -Spiral
> I'm an atheist, but even so I can be impressed by a theist who truly
> follows the message of peace in their religion even under severe
> provocation.  Marvin is such a person, and I am impressed by them.
I am not saying war is the answer, or even killing.  
Turn the other cheek is biblical, as is forgiving people 70 times 7.  
But you are wrong to say the bible is all about peace and love. 
Read the old testament.  There was plenty of war for God.  Nor was
the new testament about turning the other cheek while wrong goes on.
 Jesus phsyically busted up people
selling sacrifices in the temple.  While I am warming up to a rant,
Jesus sacrificed his life to save others.  example from john 15:13
"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for
his friends."
Now take that into this example.  You see someone carrying a grenade
into a school.  Do you allow them to go unhindered into the school? 
No, you know that isn't right.  You do whatever it takes to keep him
from killing innocents.  The people in the plane that crashed in
penn, did the right thing.  They attacked the hijackers, which
prevented the hijackers from smashing into the building and killing
even more people.  Turning the other cheek is not allowing bad
things to happen.  
I dont want to get into a war as there will be lots of innocents
killed.  It hapens when you use explosives.  The problem is how do
you stop someone who hates you enough that they are willing to die
to kill you.  There is no compromise, with such a person.  So to
prevent him, what choices do we have?  Capture him, and keep him out
of communication with other killers?  Or assasinate him.  
Personally I believe you put a rabid dog, instead of letting him
hurt other people.
thats my 2 cents and then some.  
Magneto



-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >>>Marvin's Letter
date: Mon Sep 17 06:49:56 2001

On Mon Sep 17 05:54:25 2001 Magneto wrote post #444:
> On Mon Sep 17 04:20:21 2001 Tahnval wrote post #443:
> > On Mon Sep 17 00:05:49 2001 Spiraldancer wrote post #441:
> > >  I don't normally post anything but Marvin's message has moved me
> > > very, very much. In a world of quick answers and seemingly endless
> > > violence (even amongst the so-called righteous and "holy") it warms
> > > my heart to see someone who believes in the scriptures of love and
> > > forgiveness. I gave up long ago on almost all religion, organized or
> > > otherwise, as it all appeared to be cattle driving, merely giving
> > > people a reason to do bad and feel secure in it through "donating"
> > > for their forgiveness. Now, before anyone anyone condemns this
> > > heathen I was born and raised DEEP southern baptist and I was taken
> > > to church to raise God's name up and praise His glory and all that.
> > > I never once, not _once_, saw someone actually try to live let alone
> > > speak on the true message of love and peace. I only say racist
> > > biggots and old charlattens (sp?) praising Jesus so they and their
> > > christian breathren could have this singular life of salvation. This
> > > outlook has brought me into Agnostisism for the last 11 years. Until
> > > today. Marvin, you are an example of love and forgiveness that this
> > > non-believer has never, ever seen the likes of before but I would
> > > really like to see again and again and again.
> > > I have not been to church for more than a decade. This week will
> > > break that cycle. Thank you Marvin.
> > > Thank you.
> > > 
> > > -Spiral
> > I'm an atheist, but even so I can be impressed by a theist who truly
> > follows the message of peace in their religion even under severe
> > provocation.  Marvin is such a person, and I am impressed by them.
> I am not saying war is the answer, or even killing.  
> Turn the other cheek is biblical, as is forgiving people 70 times 7.  
> But you are wrong to say the bible is all about peace and love. 
> Read the old testament.  There was plenty of war for God.  Nor was
> the new testament about turning the other cheek while wrong goes on.
>  Jesus phsyically busted up people
> selling sacrifices in the temple.  While I am warming up to a rant,
> Jesus sacrificed his life to save others.  example from john 15:13
> "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for
> his friends."
> Now take that into this example.  You see someone carrying a grenade
> into a school.  Do you allow them to go unhindered into the school? 
> No, you know that isn't right.  You do whatever it takes to keep him
> from killing innocents.  The people in the plane that crashed in
> penn, did the right thing.  They attacked the hijackers, which
> prevented the hijackers from smashing into the building and killing
> even more people.  Turning the other cheek is not allowing bad
> things to happen.  
> I dont want to get into a war as there will be lots of innocents
> killed.  It hapens when you use explosives.  The problem is how do
> you stop someone who hates you enough that they are willing to die
> to kill you.  There is no compromise, with such a person.  So to
> prevent him, what choices do we have?  Capture him, and keep him out
> of communication with other killers?  Or assasinate him.  
> Personally I believe you put a rabid dog, instead of letting him
> hurt other people.
> thats my 2 cents and then some.  
> Magneto
> 
> 
Hmm..I tried trimming but couldn't get to grips with the editor.
There's a lot of ground between "allowing bad things to happen"
and "going to war".  I did not say that nothing should be done, so
your reply is IMO irrelevant to my post.  I'll direct people back 
to Marvin's post.

First, you assasinate the person you think is responsible.  Then
you have to kill all the people who will see him as a martyr.  Then
all the people who have been enraged by the first round of killings.
Etc.  If only the solution was as simple as a single assassination.

-----------------

poster: Urg
subject: stuff
date: Mon Sep 17 12:06:28 2001

okay, dont want to get flamed for this, its just my (pretty crappy)
views on the situation

in my opinion war on *any* grounds is a bad idea, even if it was
fully justifiable and another state/country was held responsible for
the events last tuesday. even so, the american pulic from what ive
heard seems to mainly want revenge (not generalising this to every
american, just saw soewhere that 2/3 of them would support any
action that the government took to seek recompense) and one phrased
used was that "american blood has been spilt, now someone must be
found to pay for this".

surely american blood is the same as any other in this situation,
with the amount of nationalities present in the WTC almost any
nation in the world could say that anyway. for once the afghans seem
to have got the entire political situation right, they have done the
"right" thing by arresting bin laden, on reasonable grounds for
suspicion, but have refused to hand him over until there is concrete
evidence that he did it ..... surely american politicians realise
that if afghanistan is attacked then the rest of the world will not
follow, its attacking a country that has just offered to ally with
any moves towards justice.

a war wont remove the threat of this ever happening again, just
possibly make it worse - terrorists are probably the people with
least to fear from war, as they are trained and are an almost
impossible target of a network of individuals .... the only people
that would die with certainty would be innocent people, no less or
more deserving than the thousands of people in the WTC and the
Pentagon

rant over .... flame away


-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: >michigan
date: Mon Sep 17 16:30:39 2001

On Sun Sep 16 05:34:22 2001 Miciaih wrote post #439:
> this is just a note for everybody that lives in, or can drive to,
> ann arbor michigan i am going to try and set up something where in a
> month we all can meet up and see the faces of the peaple in the mud.
> please send me a mudmail i will keep all posted.
fyi, it's called a 'mudcon' miciaih :)

-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: >>michigan
date: Mon Sep 17 17:26:05 2001

On Mon Sep 17 16:30:39 2001 Uno wrote post #447:
> On Sun Sep 16 05:34:22 2001 Miciaih wrote post #439:
> > this is just a note for everybody that lives in, or can drive to,
> > ann arbor michigan i am going to try and set up something where in a
> > month we all can meet up and see the faces of the peaple in the mud.
> > please send me a mudmail i will keep all posted.
> fyi, it's called a 'mudcon' miciaih :)
there's even a newsgroup for it =)

-----------------

poster: Javier
subject: An Open Letter to a Terrorist...
date: Mon Sep 17 20:20:05 2001

This may have already been posted, but I don't remember seeing it. I
recieved this in the mail today, and although I'm not American, I
did live there for a year, and alot of what's said is true. This may
explain why this is such a big deal in America, why it has received
such intense coverage, while other violent acts around the world
don't recieve as much...
Anyway, either way, it's certainly a cheer of solidarity...
Javi
>An open letter to a terrorist: 
 > 
 >Well, you hit the World Trade Center, but you missed America. 
 > 
 >You hit the Pentagon, but you missed America. 
 > 
 >You used helpless American bodies, to take out other American
bodies, but like a poor marksman,
 you STILL missed America. 
 > 
 >Why? Because of something you guys will never understand. 
 > 
 >America isn't about a building or two, not about financial
centers, not about military centers,
 America isn't about a place, America isn't even about a bunch of bodies. 
 > 
 >America is about an IDEA. An idea, that you can go someplace where
you can earn as much as
 you can figure out how to, live for the most part, like you 
 >envisioned living, and pursue Happiness. (No guarantees that
you'll reach it, but you can sure try!)
 And be part of any religious group you want to, if you want to. 
 > 
 >Go ahead and whine your terrorist whine, and chant your terrorist
litany: "If you cannot see my
 point, then feel my pain." This concept is alien to Americans. We
live in a country where we don't
 have to see your point. But you're free to have one. 
 > 
 >We don't have to listen to your speech. But you're free to give
one. Don't know where you got the
 strange idea that everyone has to agree with you. 
 > 
 >We don't agree with each other in this country, almost as a matter
of pride. We're a collection of
 guys that don't agree, called States. We united our individual
states to protect ourselves from tyranny
 in the world. Another idea, we made up on the spot. You CAN make it
up as you go, when it's your
 country. If you're free enough. 
 > 
 >Yeah, we're fat, sloppy, easygoing goofs most of the time. That's
an unfortunate image to project to
 the world, but it comes of feeling free and easy about the world
you live in. 
 > 
 >It's unfortunate too, because people start to forget that when you
attack Americans, they tend to
 fight like a cornered badger. 
 > 
 >The first we knew of the War of 1812, was when England burned
Washington D.C. to the ground.
 Didn't turn out like England thought it was going to, and it's not
going to turn out like you think, either.
 > 
 >Sorry, but you're not the first bully on our shores, just the most
recent. No Marquis of Queensbury
 rules for Americans, either. We were the FIRST and, so far, only
country in the world to use nuclear
 weapons in anger. 
 > 
 >Horrific idea nowadays? News for you, Bucko, it was back then too,
but we used it anyway. Only
 had two of them in the whole world and we used 'em both. Grandpa
Jones worked on the Manhattan
 Project. Told me once, that right up until they threw the switch,
the physicists were still arguing over
 whether the Uranium alone would fission, or whether it would start
a fissioning chain reaction that
 would eat everything. But they threw the switch anyway, because we
had a War to win. 
 > 
 >Does that tell you something about American Resolve? 
 > 
 >So who just declared War on us? 
 > 
 >It would be nice to point to some real estate, like the good old
days. Unfortunately, we're probably
 at war with random camps, in far-flung places. Who think they're
safe. Just like the Barbary Pirates
 did, IIRC. Better start sleeping with one eye open. 
 > 
 >There's a spirit that tends to take over people who come to this
country, looking for opportunity,
 looking for liberty, looking for freedom, even if they misuse it.
The Marielistas that Castro emptied
 out of his prisons, were overjoyed to find out how much freedom
there was. First thing they did when
 they hit our shores, was run out and buy guns. The ones that didn't
end up dead, ended up in prisons.
 It was a big PITA then (especially in south Florida), but you're
only the newest PITA, not the first. 
 > 
 >You guys seem to be incapable of understanding that we don't live
in America, America lives in US!
 American Spirit is what it's called. And killing a few thousand of
us, or a few million of us, won't
 change it. Most of the time, it's a pretty happy-go-lucky kind of
Spirit. Until we're crossed in a
 cowardly manner, then it becomes an entirely different kind of Spirit. 
 > 
 >Wait until you see what we do with that Spirit, this time. 
 > 
 >Sleep tight, if you can. We're coming. 
 > 
 >Charles Brennan 

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >An Open Letter to a Terrorist...
date: Mon Sep 17 20:52:38 2001

Didn't include the previous post cause it's so long.  Folks 
who resent the united states think/have been taught 
that we're the ones thwarting their ability to have/do 
all those things you said america was about.  Most of our 
bargaining power with pakistan, iran, syria, etc is our willingness 
to lift our boot off their throats(peel off some sanctions)
in exchange for their aid.  Granted their past support of 
criminal NGOs and propensity to pick wars or stomp 
on their own populations brought the sanctions on them, but the 
gov'ts of those countries can and do tell their people 
things would be better if not for the US sanctions against 
them. (Nevermind the fact they were invading other people or supporting 
terrorists who attacked US interests in the first place.)

The Islamic folks say bin laden and his people have managed to 
twist our sanctions and interventions into apparent attacks on their 
way of life, and so get more people flocking to his banner.

My big supernickle. :)

-Pedron spam thinks we should just sik assassins on every terrorist
we can find 
to shut them and the propogandas they'd make on open bombings down. :P

-----------------

poster: Palenon
subject: All the goings on
date: Tue Sep 18 08:30:36 2001

This is going to be a long post.....
Since everyone else did, and since someone brooched the subject of
religion, which is never a good idea around me..I will add my
views...

Anyone who knows me knows that I tend to think with a militaristic
warlike mind, and that I tend towards violent retaliations on just
about any occasion I can...I was bred in a military lifestyle and I
will probably (hopefully) die on a battlefield protecting this great
nation of

I can honestly say that I would take a bullet for anyone I thought
worthy of continuing on in my place...unfortunately I can't say that
everyone has my morales or that everyone should think like I do for
in fact you should not..if we all did there would bullets razing all
over the place and everyone would be diving to take a bullet for
their brethren which when looked at mathematically leaves you a
population of 0.

Regarding Ant's earlier post about media coverage...I too believe
that this has been too heavily covered in media circles but not for
the same reasons...
Someone said earlier that Media is the weapon of terrorists..this is
nearly 100% true..with recent coverage hate crimes against those of
Middle-Eastern decent is on the rise and it isn't likely to be
sloping off soon...a convenience store owner a few miles from my
house was shot and killed recently because he wore a turban .. he
was Indian not even an Arab or a "towelhead" as some affectionately
call them
People who do things like this are worse than terrorists because
they do it not to someone worlds away whom they have never met..but
they do it to someone they have bought gas and candy from for
years...these people who call themselves 'Americans' are no more
American than the terrorists themselves
My middle name is 'Walid'..Am I an evil child-killing Taliban
deathbringer? No, and this is my most important point..if we do go
to war (and in all likelihood we will) let people who know what they
r doing handle it...if you take up a 38 special and start killing
imaginary terrorists at home you are the worst kind of patriot, the
kind who thinks he knows what is best for his country, do not
presume to take matters into your own hands..just because someone
has brown skin doesn't mean they are a bomb-wielding terrorist
I have heard talk at my school of late of people who would avoid a
draft if it came by enlisting in the Air Force, this may seem a
solution to a problem to some people..but your bigger problem is
losing the respect of those around you by exposing your
cowardice...
Let me state this plainly as I am sure to get flamed to hell and
back...IF you don't support war that is fine, you should stand up
for what you believe in..I believe in protecting my country and my
fellow Americans but all people are not me..people who do not
support this country are not necessarily cowards unless they don't
support their decision
In my mind, someone who would flee war by joining a support branch
of the military is in fact a coward...not the type of person I trust
with ensuring the bombs on a plane are in working order or making
sure bullets are properly machine packed. 
If you don't support the decisions of the government that has kept
the most powerful nation in the world that way for many years then
take your family and get across the border..because what is coming
is not something you want you or them to be around for...it is going
to be bloody it is going to be scary and it is going to be delivered
straight to your tv so u can watch it from your recliner.

Before anyone flames me for calling them cowards let me note something...
This country and all it's whimsy you take for granted, this place of
prosperity that has cushioned your lives for so long, was built on
blood and bones and death the likes of which you can't fathom. We
lead pampered lives compared to those in other countries...things we
take for granted are priceless in faraway lands...none of it
magically appeared..none of it was hand delivered to us...we fought
for every damned bit of it and anyone who thinks war is pointless
violence can learn another language..German because that is what you
would be speaking if thousands of people didn't lay down their lives
to bring you this America you think you deserve to live in
If you don't show respect for the Flag, if you don't take off your
hat and place your hand on your heart for the Anthem or the Pledge,
then your forefathers died for nothing for all the respect you show
them.
If it were up to me it'd be a good Singapore cane-whip for the lot of you.
But it is not up to me, thankfully for you, you 'patriots', you
'followers of faith'
It seems odd that some people think this is a show of God's
disapproval...I am not a religious man..but I am a well-read one,
and it seems to me with all the slaughters your gods have caused
throughout history you would be more readily suited towards violent
retaliation in the name of 'God' than any of the rest of us
You believe in a 'God' so he exists...if noone believed he would not
exist, it is that simple...yet on this belief christians killed
thousands during the Crusades in the name of God...the peoples they
killed worshipped a God too...a very similiar God in fact the same
God as far as belief goes
Yet they are dead and why not? what sense does it make to stop the
killing and make peace? it does no good...

You all may wish for a perfect world with flowers and grassy hills
and everyone is nice and says 'How do you do?' in thirty languages
and pets their dogs and feeds wild animals from their hands and
Bambi's mother doesn't die...
But let me let you in a piece of reality most people are all too
well accustomed to..
This perfect world you seek doesn't exist..it never will..dream it,
wish on a new star, whatever let's you keep peace of mind for 24
hours before the cycle starts again..but it won't change anything.
War shapes the world, peace is merely the calm before the storm..the
longer the silence, the worse it's going to be
Find a year in history where someone didn't die for a cause they
thought worthy and you will have found an alternate universe
These people, these terrorists, they want to see you dead even if
you don't want the same of them...they bring their children up to
hate americans because we 'pervert the muslim faith'...this is the
same war that you have fought for years for the progress of your
Christian God were you ever surprised when the people you oppressed
fought back?

These terrorists are willing to die if it means just one of you goes
with them, do they care which one? No, they are just as happy if not
happier with killing your children as they are with killing
you..they would send their own kids in strapped with dynomite to
level our buildings..would you ask that of your children? No, you
wouldn't...Do you really want people who would do such things to
grow in power and further wage war on American citizens without fear
of reprisal?
Japan bombs Pearl Harbor, we nuked them..vast loss of lives on all
sides and now..60 years later? Peace between Japan and the US..we
don't bomb them..they don't fly their planes into our aircraft
carries sideways
Yet the first time terrorists attempt to destroy the WTC we issue
warrants..warrants which aren't recognized..warrants which are
ignored and warrants which get us nowhere.

These are my views not necessarily anyone elses you may think me an
idiot, feel free to do so, this country was created just so you
could have the right to call me whatever you like.
But don't lose sight of the important issues while you flame me back
to the stone age..
You can't just will this all to go away...the wheels are set in
motion..the proverbial bear has been poked with the proverbial stick
and now some people are going to die..many more than already
have...nobody is going to like it..anyone who relishes killing is a
sick twisted mind..but it must be understood that killing is also
necessary.
In the 1700's did we throw the Brits a tea party and send them back
across the ocean with a packed lunch?
In the 1800's did we make tacos with the Mexicans and dance to Mariachi music?
In the 1900's did we get drunk at Oktoberfest and dance with the Germans?
In the 2000's are we going to bend over backwards to Middle-Eastern
terrorists exacting the will of their God?
My 2 Abraham Lincoln Coppers and a few other President's worth.
Pale

-----------------

poster: Jomo
subject: >All the goings on
date: Tue Sep 18 18:26:53 2001

I would fight a war if:

A) there was no better way to "win"
B) we had a clear objective with the unswerving support
   of congress and the rest of the american people.
C) Militarism would actually result in a "win" situation
D) We weren't going to be killing innocents who are
   being enslaved by their country.

Given this:
A) I believe that economic and diplomatic pressure has a 
better chance to win this war.  As has been proved over
and over, if you can get the people that are there to
take care of the problem, the problem has a better
chance of staying fixed.  For instance, if a force
lead by islamic countries' forces rushes into
afghanistan it stops being a holy war and 
becomes a political war instead.

I do not fee that US Military agression will solve 
the problem (Mainly Terrorism).

B) There is no clear set objective. "Stopping terrorism"
is as elusive a goal as "World Peace".  While it's
an honorable goal, a war with a set objective will almost
always fail.

C) Will military involvement really eliminate the 
problem or just cause more people to hate the US
and thus create more terrorists.

The "War" that needs to take place, will not
be so much with troops -- but with culture 
and oppurtunity.


Providing the possibility of living the
same sort of life we live is the only
way to diffuse this bomb. 

-----------------

poster: Jomo
subject: Hmm.. previous Post
date: Tue Sep 18 18:28:09 2001

Ok, none of my letters line up.

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: >real sickos
date: Wed Sep 19 09:09:11 2001

>And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we
>make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the
>abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who
>are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU,
>People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to
>secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You
>helped this happen.' "

I wonder, does this include those religious people that are trying
to force their beliefs down other peoples throats? Maybe not the
right thing to say, but some people really should use their brains
before they speak. People like these guys are exactly why many
educated people choose to follow 'alternative' beliefs.

- Tranquil


-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>real sickos
date: Wed Sep 19 16:15:40 2001

On Wed Sep 19 09:09:11 2001 Tranquil wrote post #454:
> >And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we
> >make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the
> >abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who
> >are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU,
> >People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to
> >secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You
> >helped this happen.' "
> 
> I wonder, does this include those religious people that are trying
> to force their beliefs down other peoples throats? Maybe not the
> right thing to say, but some people really should use their brains
> before they speak. People like these guys are exactly why many
> educated people choose to follow 'alternative' beliefs.
> 
> - Tranquil
> 
Fear I think tranquil read one of those gigantic posts I 
sskipped over.  Don't recall this quote he's replying to.
It's folks getting mad and pointing fingers at other folks 
who supposedly 'make god mad' (folks pointing like this 
person points) that do the secularizing. ;>
Whoever this person was that Tranquil responded to has the 
same kind ofintolerant fury that drives everyone 
who would be a terrorist and call jihad on innocents 
who meant them no harm.

my nickle
-pedron spam

-----------------

poster: Waz
subject: >>>real sickos
date: Wed Sep 19 18:47:54 2001

On Wed Sep 19 16:15:40 2001 Pedron wrote post #455:
> On Wed Sep 19 09:09:11 2001 Tranquil wrote post #454:
> > >And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we
> > >make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the
> > >abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who
> > >are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU,
> > >People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to
> > >secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You
> > >helped this happen.' "
> > 
> > I wonder, does this include those religious people that are trying
> > to force their beliefs down other peoples throats? Maybe not the
> > right thing to say, but some people really should use their brains
> > before they speak. People like these guys are exactly why many
> > educated people choose to follow 'alternative' beliefs.
> > 
> > - Tranquil
> > 
> Fear I think tranquil read one of those gigantic posts I 
> sskipped over.  Don't recall this quote he's replying to.
> It's folks getting mad and pointing fingers at other folks 
> who supposedly 'make god mad' (folks pointing like this 
> person points) that do the secularizing. ;>
> Whoever this person was that Tranquil responded to has the 
> same kind ofintolerant fury that drives everyone 
> who would be a terrorist and call jihad on innocents 
> who meant them no harm.
> 
> my nickle
> -pedron spam
This was actually posted by me originally, and it was a news article that
quoted The Rev. Jerry Falwell.  That is an exact quote of his made in regard
to the bombing.  I shared it with all of you in order to highlight
the sad state of those for whom intolerance is a way of life.

The real kicker is that a day after making those comments, he publicly
said he didn't mean to offend anyone.  Sure.

-Waz

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>>>real sickos
date: Wed Sep 19 21:38:30 2001

On Wed Sep 19 18:47:54 2001 Waz wrote post #456:
> On Wed Sep 19 16:15:40 2001 Pedron wrote post #455:
> > On Wed Sep 19 09:09:11 2001 Tranquil wrote post #454:
> > > >And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we
> > > >make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the
> > > >abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who
> > > >are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU,
> > > >People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to
> > > >secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You
> > > >helped this happen.' "
> > > 
> > > I wonder, does this include those religious people that are trying
> > > to force their beliefs down other peoples throats? Maybe not the
> > > right thing to say, but some people really should use their brains
> > > before they speak. People like these guys are exactly why many
> > > educated people choose to follow 'alternative' beliefs.
> > > 
> > > - Tranquil
> > > 
> > Fear I think tranquil read one of those gigantic posts I 
> > sskipped over.  Don't recall this quote he's replying to.
> > It's folks getting mad and pointing fingers at other folks 
> > who supposedly 'make god mad' (folks pointing like this 
> > person points) that do the secularizing. ;>
> > Whoever this person was that Tranquil responded to has the 
> > same kind ofintolerant fury that drives everyone 
> > who would be a terrorist and call jihad on innocents 
> > who meant them no harm.
> > 
> > my nickle
> > -pedron spam
> This was actually posted by me originally, and it was a news article that
> quoted The Rev. Jerry Falwell.  That is an exact quote of his made in regard
> to the bombing.  I shared it with all of you in order to highlight
> the sad state of those for whom intolerance is a way of life.
> 
> The real kicker is that a day after making those comments, he publicly
> said he didn't mean to offend anyone.  Sure.
> 
> -Waz
Well he's as fool as the terrorists to think the united states is 
decadent enough to be a safe target.  I'll admit we 
have our problems, but I do think he numbers among them. ;>

-pedron spam

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >>>>real sickos
date: Thu Sep 20 05:11:11 2001

On Wed Sep 19 18:47:54 2001 Waz wrote post #456:
> On Wed Sep 19 16:15:40 2001 Pedron wrote post #455:
> > On Wed Sep 19 09:09:11 2001 Tranquil wrote post #454:
> > > >And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we
> > > >make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the
> > > >abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who
> > > >are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU,
> > > >People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to
> > > >secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You
> > > >helped this happen.' "
> > > 
> > > I wonder, does this include those religious people that are trying
> > > to force their beliefs down other peoples throats? Maybe not the
> > > right thing to say, but some people really should use their brains
> > > before they speak. People like these guys are exactly why many
> > > educated people choose to follow 'alternative' beliefs.
> > > 
> > > - Tranquil
> > > 
> > Fear I think tranquil read one of those gigantic posts I 
> > sskipped over.  Don't recall this quote he's replying to.
> > It's folks getting mad and pointing fingers at other folks 
> > who supposedly 'make god mad' (folks pointing like this 
> > person points) that do the secularizing. ;>
> > Whoever this person was that Tranquil responded to has the 
> > same kind ofintolerant fury that drives everyone 
> > who would be a terrorist and call jihad on innocents 
> > who meant them no harm.
> > 
> > my nickle
> > -pedron spam
> This was actually posted by me originally, and it was a news article that
> quoted The Rev. Jerry Falwell.  That is an exact quote of his made in regard
> to the bombing.  I shared it with all of you in order to highlight
> the sad state of those for whom intolerance is a way of life.
> 
> The real kicker is that a day after making those comments, he publicly
> said he didn't mean to offend anyone.  Sure.
> 
> -Waz

And for those that don't know who Jerry Falwell is (you lucky
people), he's the same (idiot? jackass? etc etc) guy who said the
purple Teletubby was gay.

Gives you a good idea of what he spends his time doing.

-WC

-----------------

poster: Baer
subject: Plaque - June 99
date: Thu Sep 20 14:49:47 2001


If we lose some data over the weekend, we could restore everyone to
their worth as at end of June '99.

Enjoy,
Baer

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        3)  Alvin           93             1015997414
        4)  Barkley         88              815480192
        5)  Snoop           86              730982062
        6)  Mixer           83              702459540
        7)  Cloud           83              644498912
        8)  Phire           78              642504049
        9)  Zane            55              620176245
       10)  Bremen          82              556207788
       11)  Raunk           81              553564203
       12)  Torque          70              553236775
       13)  Grendel         58              491342738
       14)  Uno             80              488936743
       15)  Spirum          64              469205369
       16)  Pasqualli       73              462779940
       17)  Antiochus       76              450499056
       18)  Dfalt           75              443408247
       19)  Dirk            77              432846608
       20)  Ksarul          76              410101391
       21)  Tas             76              403434765
       22)  Gerrik          66              380059927
       23)  Nitemare        67              359983773
       24)  Thrain          66              342776002
       25)  Zaedrax         68              337565992
       26)  Qalor           60              324527955
       27)  Scarlet         69              309896744
       28)  Elsdreck        70              292436828
       29)  Faidra          66              277392329
       30)  Apathy          53              273549075
       31)  Caliban         60              255043183
       32)  Ref             61              253956970
       33)  Sigtest         55              223019568
       34)  Dalak           62              221014218
       35)  Killaaz         55              220287875
       36)  Kaeber          65              218905396
       37)  Azmodan         55              214702524
       38)  Aphazel         57              214523071
       39)  Astarte         58              212782176
       40)  Jas             50              206716513
       41)  Raw             58              205560706
       42)  Tomten          58              205334857
       43)  Biorn           55              183314888
       44)  Balinor         53              167307286
       45)  Nightfall       53              158383744
       46)  Psyko           52              153768628
       47)  Demize          60              148476432
       48)  Sakana          54              148174840
       49)  Aleila          62              148037863
       50)  Puffdaddy       41              146533539
       51)  Rewq            54              144367143
       52)  Fortran         49              141167776
       53)  Puc              1              137325280
       54)  Guacamole       55              134195936
       55)  Psyche          55              132061130
       56)  Hexus           50              131139939
       57)  Raynbow         53              124550777
       58)  Bantum          51              123593256
       59)  Golte           49              119893002
       60)  Zarp            50              118733886
       61)  Kazulanth       53              116880051
       62)  Jomo            49              111394604
       63)  Mirrim          46              107299933
       64)  Terminator      55              106901377
       65)  Damelon         42              106125247
       66)  Auriga          41               93061127
       67)  Sisyphus        51               91210311
       68)  Tex             47               90333120
       69)  Lamir           49               87836491
       70)  Denel            1               87189984
       71)  Seer            50               86922166
       72)  Wildchild       45               82322411
       73)  Flyxx           40               78626211
       74)  Arnoth          50               78595048
       75)  Famine          51               78323964
       76)  Tistoo          49               75095352
       77)  Tresserhorn      1               74411200
       78)  Mindprobe       47               70881027
       79)  Warchief        41               69896174
       80)  Nird            48               69031499
       81)  Rodo            43               66582779
       82)  Lord            34               65871412
       83)  Mitsurugi       43               60539713
       84)  Bean            33               57606318
       85)  Zen             50               55980252
       86)  Rambo           47               52450282
       87)  Fox             42               52363810
       88)  Tesabner        42               48628409
       89)  Zorker          40               47405699
       90)  Klimax          42               46846984
       91)  Moonstreak      39               45480656
       92)  Blix            42               43081653
       93)  Bigglesworth    39               41874751
       94)  Javier          34               41453165
       95)  Foma            34               41142242
       96)  Austin          41               38986477
       97)  Pepin           42               38751713
       98)  Jordali         43               38417278
       99)  Zeb             40               36833949
       100)  Psycho          50               36121483
       101)  Zori            39               36016991
       102)  Kail             1               35741384
       103)  Raiden          36               34678218
       104)  Warsong          1               33307796
       105)  Divet            1               32582008
       106)  Squrttle        31               32186487
       107)  Max             32               31800176
       108)  Smee            34               31031321
       109)  Delerious       34               29866314
       110)  Tantrum         40               28529862
       111)  Koma            30               28520326
       112)  Frogmann        35               27887955
       113)  Racklanim        1               27861116
       114)  Imor             1               26656616
       115)  Gailin          36               26572208
       116)  Katerina        37               24617955
       117)  Blender         39               22790056
       118)  Larssi           1               22701962
       119)  Sha              1               22146864
       120)  Origon          36               21794558
       121)  Valkil          29               21380724
       122)  Sniket          27               21255692
       123)  Kadgar          37               21251761
       124)  Zaxxon          32               21051177
       125)  Musashi          1               20627688
       126)  Onyx             1               20002000
       127)  Helphyre        37               19721242
       128)  Zu              32               15971849
       129)  Debacle         31               15856945
       130)  Calindor        33               15527798
       131)  Abtest          45               15336718
       132)  Lenny            1               15197565
       133)  Fyodor          30               14586796
       134)  Acinonyx        27               14010942
       135)  Drutt           30               13793257
       136)  Warren          32               13394155
       137)  Red             32               13228017
       138)  Cavia            1               12857423
       139)  Telarus         17               12200184
       140)  Zentar          26               11537161
       141)  Quillz          30               11376510
       142)  Mytest           1               11073853
       143)  Bile            27               10858930
       144)  Wik             32               10454178
       145)  Vlaadam         30                9988710
       146)  Locke           30                9725018
       147)  Vargas          28                9676745
       148)  Phife           30                9673026
       149)  Dram            31                9400758
       150)  Wimwam          30                9351962
       151)  Smacky          39                9038159
       152)  Jimth           27                9003721
       153)  Zorn            20                8840528
       154)  Spear           27                8720322
       155)  Fishbert         1                8591602
       156)  Spikey          22                8432839
       157)  Diablo           1                8209744
       158)  Sleip           27                7947725
       159)  Zore            30                7749169
       160)  Warrowarr       26                7434818
       161)  Chuckerbuck      1                7398647
       162)  Bajumbo         25                7237541
       163)  Macdeath        23                7120438
       164)  Tirion           1                7107065
       165)  Grinch          27                7097503
       166)  Scyth           28                7093438
       167)  Hakan           21                6915413
       168)  Hands           23                6794922
       169)  Warslut         24                6560084
       170)  Gtdyno          16                6503329
       171)  Sunflare        23                6471565
       172)  Sirk            27                6410728
       173)  Troops           1                6361754
       174)  Onion           19                5884195
       175)  Skan            20                5762306
       176)  Pain             1                5405006
       177)  Siffar          24                5389523
       178)  Psyker          30                5368369
       179)  Bosse            1                5173908
       180)  Kayleen         24                5069612
       181)  Cordelia        26                4938566
       182)  Azagthot        22                4747904
       183)  Rasp            26                4576407
       184)  Pistvakt        24                4541182
       185)  Jawz            25                3979342
       186)  Dusk            28                3905053
       187)  Alisha          21                3872623
       188)  Xphere          26                3804137
       189)  Denim           24                3738626
       190)  Crosslash       22                3733565
       191)  Leviathon       23                3686355
       192)  Shuga            1                3474098
       193)  Nyarlathotep    20                3454721
       194)  Ursula          31                3435655
       195)  Averon          23                3376506
       196)  Mamoru          22                3372450
       197)  Crack            1                3337575
       198)  Reamus          24                3144801
       199)  Thundor         20                3092014
       200)  Ghengis          1                3074228
       201)  Occult          24                3063061
       202)  Pedrosso         1                3026893
       203)  Serena          12                2866790
       204)  Denis           13                2839436
       205)  Dagoth           1                2824786
       206)  Luc             21                2767172
       207)  Entreri          1                2759036
       208)  Teutates        17                2698346
       209)  Lothar          20                2679623
       210)  Zeratul         24                2675613
       211)  Darnyte         19                2662294
       212)  Charm            1                2658216
       213)  Atrus           22                2542340
       214)  Zoyrish         21                2464193
       215)  Gundi            1                2354833
       216)  Shiranai        19                2349994
       217)  Jerak           22                2330012
       218)  Durin           22                2329929
       219)  Cremator        15                2320361
       220)  Valp            24                2205767
       221)  Baer            15                2133057
       222)  Valnir          20                1962469
       223)  Avery           15                1957454
       224)  Bafer           20                1947141
       225)  Ian              1                1896004
       226)  Drako           20                1875537
       227)  Anglemar        19                1826045
       228)  Killer          14                1806290
       229)  Jacen           20                1761702
       230)  Snah            19                1722517
       231)  Judge           18                1718230
       232)  Waz             13                1679516
       233)  Astician        17                1670950
       234)  Prospero        21                1653569
       235)  Sodolf          20                1650942
       236)  Hongkongfui     20                1633259
       237)  Medita          22                1600750
       238)  Aikan           15                1596002
       239)  Kutulu           1                1530871
       240)  Pixar           10                1512145
       241)  Navratil        15                1499966
       242)  Tanglefoot      20                1430074
       243)  Magenta         12                1418667
       244)  Korthrun        13                1416081
       245)  Wraith          16                1365155
       246)  Cryptkeeper     15                1351624
       247)  Sekali          12                1340950
       248)  Elron            1                1279572
       249)  Heloska         20                1189925
       250)  Grond           13                1187042
       251)  Vitreous         8                1187034
       252)  Arkin           15                1140535
       253)  Thomin           1                1128341
       254)  Air              1                1122675
       255)  Alia            15                1113813
       256)  Thaliard        15                1077755
       257)  Gyrick          15                1075240
       258)  Merlyn          13                1005019
       259)  Venegar         15                 990582
       260)  Cypros          19                 988605
       261)  Blackjack        9                 986690
       262)  Serna           18                 975792
       263)  Zzyyxx          22                 923717
       264)  Grydon          15                 909238
       265)  Carak           12                 896407
       266)  Moxie           15                 860114
       267)  Konnan           1                 843723
       268)  Temma            9                 827986
       269)  Elani           14                 818943
       270)  Elite            1                 777326
       271)  Kumalakala      13                 767043
       272)  Bleak            1                 734424
       273)  Phsycoduck      13                 727820
       274)  Regal           13                 719734
       275)  Zonked           8                 703388
       276)  Coal            15                 656840
       277)  Ertai           12                 656092
       278)  Kahlua           8                 641315
       279)  Voz              9                 618803
       280)  Rosencrantz     15                 593721
       281)  Dynasty         15                 585255
       282)  Dmx             14                 580749
       283)  Trap            15                 567431
       284)  Tangelfoot      13                 567029
       285)  Danith          12                 559985
       286)  Shaolin          1                 548501
       287)  Chandris         1                 540570
       288)  Smog            14                 521958
       289)  Deviston        14                 516942
       290)  Loganfive       20                 495356
       291)  Ponka           11                 493152
       292)  Sleet           15                 479325
       293)  Shade           11                 466238
       294)  Keldar          14                 461725
       295)  Myth            12                 442670
       296)  Binx            12                 422372
       297)  Oakie           11                 390732
       298)  Gormac          11                 384837
       299)  Len             10                 379774
       300)  Goku             6                 369086
       301)  Holyman         14                 365184
       302)  Aruladen        14                 208171
       303)  Rilt            12                 155035
       304)  Mantra           8                 152331
       305)  Riverwind       10                 123788
       306)  Haplo            9                  58449
       307)  Mirel            9                  45356
       308)  Carvellan        6                   6721
       309)  Kadiman          1                   2248
       310)  Zerial           1                   2000
       311)  Karagan          1                   2000



-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>>>real sickos
date: Fri Sep 21 01:44:42 2001

On Thu Sep 20 05:11:11 2001 Wildchild wrote post #458:
> On Wed Sep 19 18:47:54 2001 Waz wrote post #456:
> > On Wed Sep 19 16:15:40 2001 Pedron wrote post #455:
> > > On Wed Sep 19 09:09:11 2001 Tranquil wrote post #454:
> > > > >And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we
> > > > >make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the
> > > > >abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who
> > > > >are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU,
> > > > >People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to
> > > > >secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You
> > > > >helped this happen.' "
> > > > 
> > > > I wonder, does this include those religious people that are trying
> > > > to force their beliefs down other peoples throats? Maybe not the
> > > > right thing to say, but some people really should use their brains
> > > > before they speak. People like these guys are exactly why many
> > > > educated people choose to follow 'alternative' beliefs.
> > > > 
> > > > - Tranquil
> > > > 
> > > Fear I think tranquil read one of those gigantic posts I 
> > > sskipped over.  Don't recall this quote he's replying to.
> > > It's folks getting mad and pointing fingers at other folks 
> > > who supposedly 'make god mad' (folks pointing like this 
> > > person points) that do the secularizing. ;>
> > > Whoever this person was that Tranquil responded to has the 
> > > same kind ofintolerant fury that drives everyone 
> > > who would be a terrorist and call jihad on innocents 
> > > who meant them no harm.
> > > 
> > > my nickle
> > > -pedron spam
> > This was actually posted by me originally, and it was a news article that
> > quoted The Rev. Jerry Falwell.  That is an exact quote of his made in
regard
> > to the bombing.  I shared it with all of you in order to highlight
> > the sad state of those for whom intolerance is a way of life.
> > 
> > The real kicker is that a day after making those comments, he publicly
> > said he didn't mean to offend anyone.  Sure.
> > 
> > -Waz
> 
> And for those that don't know who Jerry Falwell is (you lucky
> people), he's the same (idiot? jackass? etc etc) guy who said the
> purple Teletubby was gay.
> 
> Gives you a good idea of what he spends his time doing.
> 
> -WC
i didnt think teletubbies had sexes?

-----------------

poster: Durin
subject: >Plaque - June 99
date: Fri Sep 21 10:29:40 2001


Durin rolls on the floor whimpering, "95) Foma 34 41142242.. oh
jeezus 111) Koma 30 28520326." and laughing uncontrollably.


-----------------

poster: Baer
subject: newbie events
date: Sat Sep 22 16:20:48 2001


Regarding this:
With a tortured scream, Superfluff the Leader of Carebears dies at
the hands of
the party of Squee!
The remaining Carebears, finding themselves now without a leader, quickly
decide to abandon their attack.
The huge Carebear cloud ship slowly climbs and limbers away. The
world sighs in
relief as the remaining Carebears leave.

The Mayor of the city shouts 'Alotacod's help in forcing the
Carebears to leave
was extraordinary!  For this action I will reward him a random piece of
Carebear armor.
[event]: Event 'Carebear Invasion' has ended.

I think higher level players who are competing in newbie level
events should be ashamed of themselves. It's made with a level
restriction for a reason. Newbies are entitled to take on this
challenge for themself, as they cannot compete in many other events.
You were a newbie once, let them enjoy it too.

When I bug reported this some months ago it was followed up by
Zifnab as being bug abuse and punishable as such. You guys have had
enough warning, stay out of it. If you think the event cant be
solved by newbies alone, then let it be tuned accordingly.

Baer
(voice for the newbies rah rah)

-----------------

poster: Wik
subject: >Plaque - June 99
date: Sat Sep 22 22:40:07 2001

Heh, im totally up for that. id go up 9M in worth. I miss being
worth that much..

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >newbie events
date: Sun Sep 23 21:21:56 2001

On Sat Sep 22 16:20:48 2001 Baer wrote post #462:
> Regarding this:
> With a tortured scream, Superfluff the Leader of Carebears dies at
> the hands of
> the party of Squee!
> The remaining Carebears, finding themselves now without a leader, quickly
> decide to abandon their attack.
> The huge Carebear cloud ship slowly climbs and limbers away. The
> world sighs in
> relief as the remaining Carebears leave.
> 
> The Mayor of the city shouts 'Alotacod's help in forcing the
> Carebears to leave
> was extraordinary!  For this action I will reward him a random piece of
> Carebear armor.
> [event]: Event 'Carebear Invasion' has ended.
> 
> I think higher level players who are competing in newbie level
> events should be ashamed of themselves. It's made with a level
> restriction for a reason. Newbies are entitled to take on this
> challenge for themself, as they cannot compete in many other events.
> You were a newbie once, let them enjoy it too.
> 
> When I bug reported this some months ago it was followed up by
> Zifnab as being bug abuse and punishable as such. You guys have had
> enough warning, stay out of it. If you think the event cant be
> solved by newbies alone, then let it be tuned accordingly.
> 
> Baer
> (voice for the newbies rah rah)
I thought zif rigged it so the bears instakilled non-newbies, 
so was paranoid about it. ;>  Couple times the event happened 
when I was playing my level 15 secondary and he had little trouble 
nuking every bear in sight then scrounging up parties 
for the leader.  The event doesn't need tuning at all unless you 
think the level 6 people with 5 different 30% spells/skills trained should 
be able to handle the leader. :)

Anyway, I think 1-3 day freezes for lowbie+'s 
mucking up newbie events would be sufficient if the bears can't 
be made to instakill lowbie+'s. :)

-pedron spam

-----------------

poster: Jaguar
subject: >>newbie events
date: Mon Sep 24 00:24:37 2001

On Sun Sep 23 21:21:56 2001 Pedron wrote post #464:
> On Sat Sep 22 16:20:48 2001 Baer wrote post #462:
> > Regarding this:
> > With a tortured scream, Superfluff the Leader of Carebears dies at
> > the hands of
> > the party of Squee!
> > The remaining Carebears, finding themselves now without a leader, quickly
> > decide to abandon their attack.
> > The huge Carebear cloud ship slowly climbs and limbers away. The
> > world sighs in
> > relief as the remaining Carebears leave.
> > 
> > The Mayor of the city shouts 'Alotacod's help in forcing the
> > Carebears to leave
> > was extraordinary!  For this action I will reward him a random piece of
> > Carebear armor.
> > [event]: Event 'Carebear Invasion' has ended.
> > 
> > I think higher level players who are competing in newbie level
> > events should be ashamed of themselves. It's made with a level
> > restriction for a reason. Newbies are entitled to take on this
> > challenge for themself, as they cannot compete in many other events.
> > You were a newbie once, let them enjoy it too.
> > 
> > When I bug reported this some months ago it was followed up by
> > Zifnab as being bug abuse and punishable as such. You guys have had
> > enough warning, stay out of it. If you think the event cant be
> > solved by newbies alone, then let it be tuned accordingly.
> > 
> > Baer
> > (voice for the newbies rah rah)
> I thought zif rigged it so the bears instakilled non-newbies, 
> so was paranoid about it. ;>  Couple times the event happened 
> when I was playing my level 15 secondary and he had little trouble 
> nuking every bear in sight then scrounging up parties 
> for the leader.  The event doesn't need tuning at all unless you 
> think the level 6 people with 5 different 30% spells/skills trained should 
> be able to handle the leader. :)
> 
> Anyway, I think 1-3 day freezes for lowbie+'s 
> mucking up newbie events would be sufficient if the bears can't 
> be made to instakill lowbie+'s. :)
> 
> -pedron spam
It is a bit harsh getting nuked for trying to help some newbies.
Maybe we should nuke higher players who try to help newbies earn exp
too.
If it is that much of a problem with lowbies tanking superfluff,
maybe make it so people can't enter the cloudcastle after level 15.
But I was wondering, if Squee had reinced to lvl 15, and did the
event, would that be seen as wrong too?

-----------------

poster: Waz
subject: >>>newbie events
date: Mon Sep 24 00:56:39 2001

On Mon Sep 24 00:24:37 2001 Jaguar wrote post #465:
> On Sun Sep 23 21:21:56 2001 Pedron wrote post #464:
> > On Sat Sep 22 16:20:48 2001 Baer wrote post #462:
> > > Regarding this:
> > > With a tortured scream, Superfluff the Leader of Carebears dies at
> > > the hands of
> > > the party of Squee!
> > > The remaining Carebears, finding themselves now without a leader,
quickly
> > > decide to abandon their attack.
> > > The huge Carebear cloud ship slowly climbs and limbers away. The
> > > world sighs in
> > > relief as the remaining Carebears leave.
> > > 
> > > The Mayor of the city shouts 'Alotacod's help in forcing the
> > > Carebears to leave
> > > was extraordinary!  For this action I will reward him a random piece of
> > > Carebear armor.
> > > [event]: Event 'Carebear Invasion' has ended.
> > > 
> > > I think higher level players who are competing in newbie level
> > > events should be ashamed of themselves. It's made with a level
> > > restriction for a reason. Newbies are entitled to take on this
> > > challenge for themself, as they cannot compete in many other events.
> > > You were a newbie once, let them enjoy it too.
> > > 
> > > When I bug reported this some months ago it was followed up by
> > > Zifnab as being bug abuse and punishable as such. You guys have had
> > > enough warning, stay out of it. If you think the event cant be
> > > solved by newbies alone, then let it be tuned accordingly.
> > > 
> > > Baer
> > > (voice for the newbies rah rah)
> > I thought zif rigged it so the bears instakilled non-newbies, 
> > so was paranoid about it. ;>  Couple times the event happened 
> > when I was playing my level 15 secondary and he had little trouble 
> > nuking every bear in sight then scrounging up parties 
> > for the leader.  The event doesn't need tuning at all unless you 
> > think the level 6 people with 5 different 30% spells/skills trained
should 
> > be able to handle the leader. :)
> > 
> > Anyway, I think 1-3 day freezes for lowbie+'s 
> > mucking up newbie events would be sufficient if the bears can't 
> > be made to instakill lowbie+'s. :)
> > 
> > -pedron spam
> It is a bit harsh getting nuked for trying to help some newbies.
> Maybe we should nuke higher players who try to help newbies earn exp
> too.
> If it is that much of a problem with lowbies tanking superfluff,
> maybe make it so people can't enter the cloudcastle after level 15.
> But I was wondering, if Squee had reinced to lvl 15, and did the
> event, would that be seen as wrong too?


First of all, Squee was not trying to 'help newbies earn xp', he was 
ruining the point of having a newbie-only event.  

If he had reinced to level 15 and done the event, there would have been
no stink at all, because he would not have had the skills/spells of
someone who is not a newbie.  These events are designed to be fun
and challenging, not to be cake for higher worth players to do without
even thinking about it.  
even thinking about it.  
silly zmud..

Oh and before I forget, the decision of the admin are just that.  So move on
already.

-Waz

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>>>newbie events
date: Mon Sep 24 01:30:50 2001

> First of all, Squee was not trying to 'help newbies earn xp', he was 
> ruining the point of having a newbie-only event.  
> 
> If he had reinced to level 15 and done the event, there would have been
> no stink at all, because he would not have had the skills/spells of
> someone who is not a newbie.  These events are designed to be fun
> and challenging, not to be cake for higher worth players to do without
> even thinking about it.  
> even thinking about it.  
> silly zmud..
> 
> Oh and before I forget, the decision of the admin are just that.  So move on
> already.
> 
> -Waz
Lets not forget that is not the only 'problem' Squee has
caused as squee and his other characters.  This was the proverbial
straw...

--zif

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>Plaque - June 99
date: Mon Sep 24 04:03:47 2001

On Sat Sep 22 22:40:07 2001 Wik wrote post #463:
> Heh, im totally up for that. id go up 9M in worth. I miss being
> worth that much..
id be pretty pissed off, id lose all but liek 400k, but i bet hexus
would be pretty happy.

-----------------

poster: Javier
subject: The Binch
date: Mon Sep 24 19:39:05 2001

The Binch


 Every U down in U-ville liked U.S. a lot,
 But the Binch, who lived Far East of U-ville, did not.
 The Binch hated U.S.! the whole U.S. way!
 Now don't ask me why, for nobody can say.

 It could be his turban was screwed on too tight.
 Or the sun from the desert had beaten too bright.
 But I think that the most likely reason of all
 May have been that his heart was two sizes too small.

 But, whatever the reason, his heart or his turban,
 He stood facing U-ville, the part that was urban.
 "They're doing their business," he snarled from his perch
 "They're raising their families! They're going to church!
 They're leading the world, and their empire is thriving,
 I MUST keep the S's and U's from surviving!"

 Tomorrow, he knew, all the U's and the S's,
 Would put on their pants and their shirts and their
 dresses.
 They'd go to their offices, playgrounds and schools,
 And abide by their U and S values and rules,

  And then they'd do something he liked least of all,
 Every U down in U-ville, the tall and the small,
 Would stand all united, each U and each S,
 And they'd sing U-ville's anthem, "God bless us! God bless!"
 All around their Twin Towers of U-ville they'd stand,
 and their voices would drown every sound in the land.

 "I must stop that singing," Binch said with a smirk,
 And he had an idea--an idea that might work!
 The Binch stole some U airplanes in U morning hours,
 And crashed them right into the U-ville Twin Towers.
 "They'll wake to disaster!" he snickered, so sour,
  "And how can they sing when they can't find an tower?"

 The Binch cocked his ear as they woke from their
 sleeping,
 All set to enjoy their U-wailing and weeping,
 Instead he heard something that started quite low,
 And it built up quite slow, but it started to grow--
 And the Binch heard the most unpredictable thing...
 And he couldn't believe it--they started to sing!

 He stared down at U-ville, not trusting his eyes,
 What he saw was a shocking, disgusting surprise!
 Every U down in U-ville, the tall and the small,
 Was singing! Without any towers at all!
 He HADN'T stopped U-ville from singing! It sung!
 For down deep in the hearts of the old and the young,
 Those Twin Towers were standing, called Hope and called
 Pride,
 And you can't smash the towers we hold deep inside.

 So we circle the sites where our heroes did fall,
 With a hand in each hand of the tall and the small,
 And we mourn for our losses while knowing we'll cope,
 For we still have inside that U-Pride and U-Hope.

 For America means a bit more than tall towers,
 It means more than wealth or political powers,
 It's more than our enemies could ever guess,
 So may God bless America! Bless us! God bless!

-Rob Snuggs
September 13 2001

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >The Binch
date: Mon Sep 24 21:06:06 2001

that was the coolest thing ihave ever read in my entire life

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: good example of why you use ! in your triggers
date: Tue Sep 25 17:26:05 2001


Sorry just making a point.  use ! in your triggers, this 
wont happen then.

| Message | Newsgroup: wiz.typo                               | Red    |_
| ID: 426 | Subject:   Typo report                            |Dragon  | |
|         | Poster:    Dritthil                               |MudNews | |
|_________|___________________________________________________|________| |
| Time: Tue Sep 25 14:39:25 2001                                       | |
|______________________________________________________________________| |
   |_____________________________________________________________________|
Typo reported from /domains/outofwhack/uncle/aussie/rm23--

cast magma boulder
q

l
eat a corpse
loot
ga

look
q

Q
Q
cast magma boulder at first kangaroo
cough Full Sps
---- (1-25-89%)[h]:
cough  TOCK .
q


-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >good example of why you use ! in your triggers
date: Wed Sep 26 16:34:10 2001

On Tue Sep 25 17:26:05 2001 Zifnab wrote post #471:
> Sorry just making a point.  use ! in your triggers, this 
> wont happen then.
> 
> | Message | Newsgroup: wiz.typo                               | Red    |_
> | ID: 426 | Subject:   Typo report                            |Dragon  | |
> |         | Poster:    Dritthil                               |MudNews | |
> |_________|___________________________________________________|________| |
> | Time: Tue Sep 25 14:39:25 2001                                       | |
> |______________________________________________________________________| |
>    |_____________________________________________________________________|
> Typo reported from /domains/outofwhack/uncle/aussie/rm23--
> 
> cast magma boulder
> q
> 
> l
> eat a corpse
> loot
> ga
> 
> look
> q
> 
> Q
> Q
> cast magma boulder at first kangaroo
> cough Full Sps
> ---- (1-25-89%)[h]:
> cough  TOCK .
> q
> 
From the q's it looks like he was trying to quit out of 
his typo report.  Maybe send him a mail to 
use ~q or . on a blank line to escape/abort a report. :)

-pedron spam

-----------------

poster: Durin
subject: >>good example of why you use ! in your triggers
date: Thu Sep 27 11:17:23 2001

On Wed Sep 26 16:34:10 2001 Pedron wrote post #472:
> On Tue Sep 25 17:26:05 2001 Zifnab wrote post #471:
> > Sorry just making a point.  use ! in your triggers, this 
> > wont happen then.
> > 
> > | Message | Newsgroup: wiz.typo                               | Red    |_
> > | ID: 426 | Subject:   Typo report                            |Dragon  | |
> > |         | Poster:    Dritthil                               |MudNews | |
> > |_________|___________________________________________________|________| |
> > | Time: Tue Sep 25 14:39:25 2001                                       | |
> > |______________________________________________________________________| |
> >    |_____________________________________________________________________|
> > Typo reported from /domains/outofwhack/uncle/aussie/rm23--
> > 
> > cast magma boulder
> > q
> > 
> > l
> > eat a corpse
> > loot
> > ga
> > 
> > look
> > q
> > 
> > Q
> > Q
> > cast magma boulder at first kangaroo
> > cough Full Sps
> > ---- (1-25-89%)[h]:
> > cough  TOCK .
> > q
> > 
> From the q's it looks like he was trying to quit out of 
> his typo report.  Maybe send him a mail to 
> use ~q or . on a blank line to escape/abort a report. :)
> 
> -pedron spam
Yes you fu*king dillweed, why didn't you just send him that helpful
mail and not fu*king post here a suggestion for it so that you can
fu*king see you fu*king stupid idiotic name on the news boards again
you asswipe.

Thank you, drive through.
-D-urin3

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>>good example of why you use ! in your triggers
date: Thu Sep 27 18:35:11 2001

On Thu Sep 27 11:17:23 2001 Durin wrote post #473:
> On Wed Sep 26 16:34:10 2001 Pedron wrote post #472:
> > On Tue Sep 25 17:26:05 2001 Zifnab wrote post #471:
> > > Sorry just making a point.  use ! in your triggers, this 
> > > wont happen then.
> > > 
> > > | Message | Newsgroup: wiz.typo                               | Red   
|_
> > > | ID: 426 | Subject:   Typo report                            |Dragon 
| |
> > > |         | Poster:    Dritthil                               |MudNews
| |
> > > |_________|____________________________________________
______|________| |
> > > | Time: Tue Sep 25 14:39:25 2001                                      
| |
> > > |______________________________________________________
_______________| |
> > >    |___________________________________________________
_________________|
> > > Typo reported from /domains/outofwhack/uncle/aussie/rm23--
> > > 
> > > cast magma boulder
> > > q
> > > 
> > > l
> > > eat a corpse
> > > loot
> > > ga
> > > 
> > > look
> > > q
> > > 
> > > Q
> > > Q
> > > cast magma boulder at first kangaroo
> > > cough Full Sps
> > > ---- (1-25-89%)[h]:
> > > cough  TOCK .
> > > q
> > > 
> > From the q's it looks like he was trying to quit out of 
> > his typo report.  Maybe send him a mail to 
> > use ~q or . on a blank line to escape/abort a report. :)
> > 
> > -pedron spam
> Yes you fu*king dillweed, why didn't you just send him that helpful
> mail and not fu*king post here a suggestion for it so that you can
> fu*king see you fu*king stupid idiotic name on the news boards again
> you asswipe.
> 
> Thank you, drive through.
> -D-urin3
zifnab could've done that in the first place you 
luney boardspammer. :)
I figured the helpful suggestion I made was as valid as 
the ! in your triggers one zifnab made though. :P

This post I'm writing right now is a fine waste of space, 
but not quite so wasteful as yours.  Um.. use the R 
command instead of the F command if you want 
to send unconstructive personal messages to a poster.
Yeah..

-pedron spam

-----------------

poster: Blackthorne
subject: Me
date: Fri Sep 28 00:18:37 2001

Well, I am now homeless (thanks to my mom), so I will be on a lot
less frequently. I'll try to be on once in a while to party and
whatnot.
-BT

-----------------

poster: Apathy
subject: Eq page
date: Sat Sep 29 08:04:52 2001

Updated eq page. I'll try to do it more frequently in the future.

-Apathy

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: eqdecay
date: Sun Sep 30 18:22:37 2001

umm its cool an all - but if things continue to
break at 99% I for one am going to get pissy

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: eqdecay
date: Sun Sep 30 18:37:44 2001

Ok - whatever checkeq command uses to generate the % of dmg is
not fuctioning correctly

I had lotsa stuff ay 99.4-99.9 % on it and it all back back from
bifur repaired
at 97-98 %

if yer gonna do this fine, but lets accurately inform people of
how dmg'd stuff is

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Warchief
subject: >eqdecay
date: Sun Sep 30 18:39:30 2001

On Sun Sep 30 18:37:44 2001 Jaws wrote post #478:
> Ok - whatever checkeq command uses to generate the % of dmg is
> not fuctioning correctly
> 
> I had lotsa stuff ay 99.4-99.9 % on it and it all back back from
> bifur repaired
> at 97-98 %
> 
> if yer gonna do this fine, but lets accurately inform people of
> how dmg'd stuff is
> 
> Jaws

Those values are the maximum values, which lowers as the item is
repaired.  The current condition is stated in words.

-Chief

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: >>eqdecay
date: Sun Sep 30 18:52:43 2001

On Sun Sep 30 18:39:30 2001 Warchief wrote post #479:
> On Sun Sep 30 18:37:44 2001 Jaws wrote post #478:
> > Ok - whatever checkeq command uses to generate the % of dmg is
> > not fuctioning correctly
> > 
> > I had lotsa stuff ay 99.4-99.9 % on it and it all back back from
> > bifur repaired
> > at 97-98 %
> > 
> > if yer gonna do this fine, but lets accurately inform people of
> > how dmg'd stuff is
> > 
> > Jaws
> 
> Those values are the maximum values, which lowers as the item is
> repaired.  The current condition is stated in words.
> 
> -Chief
thats news to me

why have them there then
even then the #'s dont match up

checkeq right after eyepatch broke



              New: Jaws's broom (100.0)
                 New: Lightning Belt (100.0)
            Like new: Quarks Demonhide (100.0)
            Like new: Ceremonial Armbands of Mitra (100.0)
           Scratched: Robe of Oblivion (100.0)
           Scratched: Wizards pointed hat (99.5)
           Scratched: Onyx Movado leggings (99.5)
     Badly scratched: Shining cloak of Mistweaver (100.0)
     Badly scratched: Elaborate boots of Frith (100.0)
     Badly scratched: Hanesa's Harp (100.0)
     Badly scratched: Ring with a glowing diamond (99.5)
     Lightly damaged: Ring of Light (99.4)
    Seen better days: Stone amulet (99.1)
              Broken: Eyepatch of Horus (0.0)

checkeq after I repaired everything

                 New: Quarks Demonhide (99.1)
                 New: Ceremonial Armbands of Mitra (99.1)
                 New: Jaws's broom (100.0)
                 New: Robe of Oblivion (98.6)
                 New: Shining cloak of Mistweaver (98.5)
                 New: Elaborate boots of Frith (98.2)
                 New: Hanesa's Harp (98.2)
                 New: Wizards pointed hat (98.1)
                 New: Onyx Movado leggings (98.0)
                 New: Ring with a glowing diamond (97.6)
                 New: Ring of Light (97.2)
                 New: Lightning Belt (100.0)
                 New: Stone amulet (96.5)
              Broken: Eyepatch of Horus (0.0)

Last I checked math did not work this way..

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: >>>eqdecay
date: Sun Sep 30 19:51:43 2001

On Sun Sep 30 18:52:43 2001 Jaws wrote post #480:
> 
> Last I checked math did not work this way..
> 
> Jaws

What math are you imagining should be done? The number in () drops each
time you repair something, until you eventually can't repair that item
anymore.

You claim you have never heard about this before, yet it says so right in
the help eq_decay:

Fixing:
  
     Currently fixing your equipment means going to the blacksmith
     in Red Dragon city.  He can tell you how much it costs to fix 
     it.

     Each time its 'fixed' the max condition is lowered by a percentage
     of the amount 'fixed'.  What this means is that there is no
     advantage to fixing it early and often, or letting it go it will
     wear down at the same rate. 

     The cost for fixing an item is a flat rate based on how far
     you have let it decay. 

     As an example: 
    
       max condition = 100
   
       it decays to 90% it can be fixed back to 99% (lost 10% of 10)
                      cost is 10 gold per whatever for a cost of 100

       it decays to 80% it can be fixed back to 98% (lost 10% of 20)
                      cost is 10 gold per whatever or a cost of 200

Khosan

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >eqdecay
date: Sun Sep 30 20:20:27 2001

On Sun Sep 30 18:37:44 2001 Jaws wrote post #478:
> Ok - whatever checkeq command uses to generate the % of dmg is
> not fuctioning correctly
> 
> I had lotsa stuff ay 99.4-99.9 % on it and it all back back from
> bifur repaired
> at 97-98 %
> 
> if yer gonna do this fine, but lets accurately inform people of
> how dmg'd stuff is
> 
> Jaws
how about accurately reporting potential bugs and quite
getting pissy yourself.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>>eqdecay
date: Sun Sep 30 20:21:47 2001

On Sun Sep 30 18:52:43 2001 Jaws wrote post #480:
> On Sun Sep 30 18:39:30 2001 Warchief wrote post #479:
> > On Sun Sep 30 18:37:44 2001 Jaws wrote post #478:
> > > Ok - whatever checkeq command uses to generate the % of dmg is
> > > not fuctioning correctly
> > > 
> > > I had lotsa stuff ay 99.4-99.9 % on it and it all back back from
> > > bifur repaired
> > > at 97-98 %
> > > 
> > > if yer gonna do this fine, but lets accurately inform people of
> > > how dmg'd stuff is
> > > 
> > > Jaws
> > 
> > Those values are the maximum values, which lowers as the item is
> > repaired.  The current condition is stated in words.
> > 
> > -Chief
> thats news to me
> 
> why have them there then
> even then the #'s dont match up
> 
> checkeq right after eyepatch broke
> 
> 
> 
>               New: Jaws's broom (100.0)
>                  New: Lightning Belt (100.0)
>             Like new: Quarks Demonhide (100.0)
>             Like new: Ceremonial Armbands of Mitra (100.0)
>            Scratched: Robe of Oblivion (100.0)
>            Scratched: Wizards pointed hat (99.5)
>            Scratched: Onyx Movado leggings (99.5)
>      Badly scratched: Shining cloak of Mistweaver (100.0)
>      Badly scratched: Elaborate boots of Frith (100.0)
>      Badly scratched: Hanesa's Harp (100.0)
>      Badly scratched: Ring with a glowing diamond (99.5)
>      Lightly damaged: Ring of Light (99.4)
>     Seen better days: Stone amulet (99.1)
>               Broken: Eyepatch of Horus (0.0)
> 
> checkeq after I repaired everything
> 
>                  New: Quarks Demonhide (99.1)
>                  New: Ceremonial Armbands of Mitra (99.1)
>                  New: Jaws's broom (100.0)
>                  New: Robe of Oblivion (98.6)
>                  New: Shining cloak of Mistweaver (98.5)
>                  New: Elaborate boots of Frith (98.2)
>                  New: Hanesa's Harp (98.2)
>                  New: Wizards pointed hat (98.1)
>                  New: Onyx Movado leggings (98.0)
>                  New: Ring with a glowing diamond (97.6)
>                  New: Ring of Light (97.2)
>                  New: Lightning Belt (100.0)
>                  New: Stone amulet (96.5)
>               Broken: Eyepatch of Horus (0.0)
> 
> Last I checked math did not work this way..
> 
> Jaws
read the help on eq decay, you are incorrect, and
let your equipment break, not the muds
fault.

So again I ask you to get pissy with yourself and not
the mud.

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>>>eqdecay
date: Sun Sep 30 21:45:10 2001

I think he got confused about the checkeq command.
It reports the max condition the eq can be repaired to, not the 
equipment's current damage % afaik.

Maybe put in an beta abj/fig ability (outside the id spell)
to show Current Condition %: and 
Max Condition %: ?

My big nickel,
pedron spam

Oh wait, I think if you show item to bifur he tells current damage.. 
I should go see if my idea for the skill/spell sucked now. :)

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: monster tune grouped by level
date: Sun Sep 30 22:19:21 2001

Level Count     Min     Max     Avg    Good     Bad
---------------------------------------------------
 1      719    98.6   103.6   100.1     665      54
 2      547    99.7   103.6   100.2     516      31
 3      530    98.8   104.7   100.4     509      21
 4      395    99.6   106.9   101.1     394       1
 5      445    99.5   105.0   101.0     432      13
 6      368   100.1   106.3   101.8     368       0
 7      228    91.3   107.7   102.0     219       9
 8      311    98.8   108.0   102.8     308       3
 9      324    98.9   106.8   104.1     323       1
10      817    90.8   109.0   103.3     806      11
11      378   100.0   108.9   104.4     378       0
12      367    99.7   109.2   104.3     365       2
13      149    99.3   110.4   103.6     148       1
14      261    92.0   112.1   104.7     259       2
15      289    90.3   113.5   103.8     271      18
16      281    90.2   112.9   102.9     250      31
17      177    99.4   114.3   105.8     172       5
18      208    90.0   114.0   104.5     188      20
19      103    86.9   112.7   101.8      80      23
20      306    85.4   116.0    98.9     147     159
21       95    89.6   116.1   105.1      88       7
22       69    91.1   119.7   105.8      56      13
23       68    96.8   119.8   107.6      66       2
24      148    88.6   121.3   104.8     104      44
25      162    81.9   119.2   103.1     114      48
26      169    93.7   120.1   105.0     132      37
27       86    94.7   121.0   109.6      79       7
28       84    94.3   118.5   106.3      68      16
29       31    94.5   119.6   102.2      25       6
30      125    89.8   115.8   100.4      71      54
31       59    90.8   116.3   105.8      52       7
32       48    79.9   115.3   105.0      36      12
33       28    63.8   115.6    99.9      17      11
34       21    95.6   108.4   103.1      17       4
35       28    95.2   112.6   103.4      25       3
36        2   102.5   102.5   102.5       2       0
37        5   100.7   111.7   106.5       5       0
38        3   105.1   107.8   106.4       3       0
39        3    99.8   104.9   102.0       2       1
40       11    99.5   106.2   102.6      10       1
41        7    86.2   104.8   100.1       5       2
42        4    98.9   103.8   100.6       2       2
43        5   100.4   108.2   104.3       5       0
44        7   101.2   108.5   104.2       7       0
45        4    79.9   102.5    94.5       1       3
46        2   103.1   107.4   105.3       2       0
47        2   104.9   105.1   105.0       2       0
48        2    99.9   102.5   101.2       1       1
49        0     0.0     0.0     0.0       0       0
50        8    96.9   106.8   101.0       6       2

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: eq
date: Sun Sep 30 22:36:00 2001

my sentiment is that the checkeq command is misleading with the
% #'s it gives,   this is my bad for not ever reading the help file
it was just that from all apparant things the %'s represented
the eq's current condition towards 100%

maybe put in front of the %'s something like max reapairable

I cant have been the only one to misread the information

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: >eq
date: Sun Sep 30 22:38:45 2001

On Sun Sep 30 22:36:00 2001 Jaws wrote post #486:
> my sentiment is that the checkeq command is misleading with the
> % #'s it gives,   this is my bad for not ever reading the help file
> it was just that from all apparant things the %'s represented
> the eq's current condition towards 100%
> 
> maybe put in front of the %'s something like max reapairable
> 
> I cant have been the only one to misread the information
> 
> Jaws

Actually its quite straightforward, if you look at it. first part is
how close it is to breaking, and second part is how good it can be
if looked after properly. Dont think anyone with half a brain can
miss that

- Tranquil


-----------------

poster: Tektor
subject: Apology
date: Sun Sep 30 22:55:30 2001

I'm just going to Apologize for calling Khosan a bully.
For those who ask me why i can't wiz/builder, its because
I was not mature or responsible enough, to be one. I de-wizzed and
got removed from 10k. That is all anyone needs to know. It was my
own actions.
Sorry Khosan, Zif ect. I just don't think clearly or responsibly
when the subject comes up. I'll try not to bring it up again.

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >eq
date: Mon Oct  1 06:00:18 2001

On Sun Sep 30 22:36:00 2001 Jaws wrote post #486:
> my sentiment is that the checkeq command is misleading with the
> % #'s it gives,   this is my bad for not ever reading the help file
> it was just that from all apparant things the %'s represented
> the eq's current condition towards 100%
> 
> maybe put in front of the %'s something like max reapairable
> 
> I cant have been the only one to misread the information
> 
> Jaws
I think it would be useful to give the current condition accurately 
rather than a word referring to an unknown range, but I don't
expectit to happen.

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: autotuner
date: Mon Oct  1 06:42:47 2001

  I think the important thing people need to keep in mind with the
autotuner is that you CANNOT compare the exp you get to the max of
an untuned mob (which is well over 100% of what it would normally
give) to the amount you get and make a determination that the
autotuner is not working right.
  I think for the most part, the parties on the mud try to separate
out and kill things that will offer the best tunes ... that's the
intelligent thing to do.  However, when discussing the autotuner, we
need to keep in mind the ACTUAL exp value of the mob ... not what it
gives when it's fully untuned.

- Arkangyle

-----------------

poster: Hierokliff
subject: >autotuner
date: Mon Oct  1 08:42:31 2001

>  I think for the most part, the parties on the mud try to separate
>out and kill things that will offer the best tunes ... that's the
>intelligent thing to do.

Well if mobs where given exps not only from their level, but from
their resists, skills, spells, and other abilities this would be
the intelligent way to do...but since its not like that, its still
alot better useally to stay in 2-3 areas and slay em over and over
until you logoff..

You lose alot of rate when being forced to search for mobs, instead
of being able to find em fast. So alot of badlytuned easy mobs are
always better then a few higher tuned ones.

Now if there would be a few 1-2Meg exp mobs out there for parties to
slay it would prolly be alot better to find the hightuned ones since
you need to regen prolly between each fight and dont lose time in 
combat (exprate) when moving/searching for em.

//Hierokliff

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>autotuner
date: Mon Oct  1 15:43:13 2001

On Mon Oct  1 08:42:31 2001 Hierokliff wrote post #491:
> >  I think for the most part, the parties on the mud try to separate
> >out and kill things that will offer the best tunes ... that's the
> >intelligent thing to do.
> 
> Well if mobs where given exps not only from their level, but from
> their resists, skills, spells, and other abilities this would be
> the intelligent way to do...but since its not like that, its still
> alot better useally to stay in 2-3 areas and slay em over and over
> until you logoff..
> 
> You lose alot of rate when being forced to search for mobs, instead
> of being able to find em fast. So alot of badlytuned easy mobs are
> always better then a few higher tuned ones.
> 
> Now if there would be a few 1-2Meg exp mobs out there for parties to
> slay it would prolly be alot better to find the hightuned ones since
> you need to regen prolly between each fight and dont lose time in 
> combat (exprate) when moving/searching for em.
> 
> //Hierokliff

That is/has been an issue for a long time. (the exp formula)
it is completely brain dead and has been for years.  I have the
starts of a new one that takes more into account in the monsters, 
however it is far from finished, and with my lack of time lately
well I don't see it happening really fast so we need to do
with what we have at the moment.

-----------------

poster: Tamuli
subject: hmm
date: Tue Oct  2 02:49:50 2001

just wanted to say what the hell is wrong with you ppl....you all
bitch and whine about everything...if you dont wanna be pked by
ppl....DONT BE PK...you will all prolly just ignore or bitch about i
what i just said but i dont care
-tamuli

-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: nothing
date: Tue Oct  2 03:01:36 2001

Ook ook!
I have scanned some of the swecon and fincon pictures and put them
on my site for those that are interested. I will scan some more
eventually, and also add the names on who's who so don't complain.
The addy is:
http://home.bip.net/karlsbacka/
*/Snoop

-----------------

poster: Rizzly
subject: >nothing
date: Tue Oct  2 03:06:43 2001

On Tue Oct  2 03:01:36 2001 Snoop wrote post #494:
> Ook ook!
> I have scanned some of the swecon and fincon pictures and put them
> on my site for those that are interested. I will scan some more
> eventually, and also add the names on who's who so don't complain.
> The addy is:
> http://home.bip.net/karlsbacka/
> */Snoop
Hmm.. the address isn't working Snoop.  Dunno if it's my brower's
fault or what, though.

-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: >>nothing
date: Tue Oct  2 03:21:28 2001

On Tue Oct  2 03:06:43 2001 Rizzly wrote post #495:
> On Tue Oct  2 03:01:36 2001 Snoop wrote post #494:
> > Ook ook!
> > I have scanned some of the swecon and fincon pictures and put them
> > on my site for those that are interested. I will scan some more
> > eventually, and also add the names on who's who so don't complain.
> > The addy is:
> > http://home.bip.net/karlsbacka/
> > */Snoop
> Hmm.. the address isn't working Snoop.  Dunno if it's my brower's
> fault or what, though.
was me that fucked up, fixed it now tho
*/Snoop

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: WebPage Spells Info
date: Tue Oct  2 10:38:20 2001

I was browsing through the evoker spells on the 
web page and noticed the various bravo spell helps 
sometimes had different or no sp costs listed for comparable spells.
(The 2 round ones with the same damage type.)

Virulent Strike, Poison attack spell, 2 rounds, 160 sp cost
Immolate, Fire attack spell, 2 rounds, 99 sp cost
Dissolving Spray, Acid attack spell, 2 rounds, 116 sp cost
Static Discharge, Electric attack spell, 2 rounds, no cost shown
Choking Strike, Asphyx attack spell, 2 rounds, 99 sp cost
Concussive Force, Phys attack spell, 2 rounds, no cost shown
Magical Fury, Magic attack spell, 2 rounds, no cost shown
Freezing Sphere, Cold attack spell, 2 rounds, no cost shown

All show under average damage type I understand is the untrained base 
damage for the spells.  I was wondering where the page draws the sps 
costs from though.  I'm pretty sure if I checked, the cost of my strike 
and spray spells would be the 160 and 116 shown in the page.

Anyway, if the page is drawing sp cost info from active players it
would be nice 
if a wiz could fix it back to showing base sp costs.  If there is
some difference 
in the spells for them to cost different amounts, I'd like to know
that too if a 
player could enlighten me. :)

-pedron constructive!

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >WebPage Spells Info
date: Tue Oct  2 14:11:31 2001

> 
> All show under average damage type I understand is the untrained base 
> damage for the spells.  I was wondering where the page draws the sps 
> costs from though.  I'm pretty sure if I checked, the cost of my strike 
> and spray spells would be the 160 and 116 shown in the page.
> 
> Anyway, if the page is drawing sp cost info from active players it
> would be nice 
> if a wiz could fix it back to showing base sp costs.  If there is
> some difference 
> in the spells for them to cost different amounts, I'd like to know
> that too if a 
> player could enlighten me. :)
> 
> -pedron constructive!

the costs on the web page are meaningless as there is no player
info to use.
z

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>WebPage Spells Info
date: Wed Oct  3 00:23:18 2001

Would it be possible to make the page costs 
assume a player with some arbitrary int/wis/training 
that's uniform?  Maybe have someone 
plugin numbers that would apply if player foo had 
100 100 in each stat and 10% in each 
spell/skill with a cost?  Ah well, I'll leave 
it alone now.  I was just curious about cost/power efficiency 
between the spells.  I can use the help on the mud for that. :)

-pedron

-----------------

poster: Zax
subject: >>>WebPage Spells Info
date: Wed Oct  3 13:29:00 2001

On Wed Oct  3 00:23:18 2001 Pedron wrote post #499:
> Would it be possible to make the page costs 
> assume a player with some arbitrary int/wis/training 
> that's uniform?  Maybe have someone 
> plugin numbers that would apply if player foo had 
> 100 100 in each stat and 10% in each 
> spell/skill with a cost?  Ah well, I'll leave 
> it alone now.  I was just curious about cost/power efficiency 
> between the spells.  I can use the help on the mud for that. :)
> 
> -pedron
perhaps if the wizzes could post all formala, all numbers,
everything needed so we could calculate exactly how much damage we
will be doing with each hit/skill/spell etcetc
open source mudding! i can see it now

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>>>WebPage Spells Info
date: Wed Oct  3 15:15:16 2001

On Wed Oct  3 13:29:00 2001 Zax wrote post #500:
> On Wed Oct  3 00:23:18 2001 Pedron wrote post #499:
> > Would it be possible to make the page costs 
> > assume a player with some arbitrary int/wis/training 
> > that's uniform?  Maybe have someone 
> > plugin numbers that would apply if player foo had 
> > 100 100 in each stat and 10% in each 
> > spell/skill with a cost?  Ah well, I'll leave 
> > it alone now.  I was just curious about cost/power efficiency 
> > between the spells.  I can use the help on the mud for that. :)
> > 
> > -pedron
> perhaps if the wizzes could post all formala, all numbers,
> everything needed so we could calculate exactly how much damage we
> will be doing with each hit/skill/spell etcetc
> open source mudding! i can see it now

It just makes no sense to me to do that.  Why should we spend the
time to calculate all that stuff with no player, 
when you can do it yourself from inside the mud and get 
real information.


-----------------

poster: Cleo
subject: BraveHeart
date: Wed Oct  3 16:13:48 2001

Hi all mudders!=P

Clan BraveHeart is searching for new members. - Se if you´re active,
got decent eq and got some worth too. You can contact me.
Mostly intrested of 100mill+, but you´re welcome to check things out still.

Mudmail or catch me online if intrested or got any questions.

*Cleo

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: recent posts
date: Fri Oct  5 15:36:16 2001


Please keep in mind that as far as I know there has not been 
one wizard that has said 'lets make it harder to solo'.  
You really need to filter the stuff that players say against
what you here from wizards. There has not been a single
change in the past few months (actually quite a few months) that
I can think of that has actually _hurt_ anyone and made the game
harder, in fact I do believe they have all made things easier
to play the game.

Just remember that if you don't hear it from a wizard its a 
very good possibility its not true, or not going to happen.

-----------------

poster: Zifjr
subject: foo
date: Fri Oct  5 16:02:27 2001

testing

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: >foo
date: Fri Oct  5 16:03:00 2001

On Fri Oct  5 16:02:27 2001 Zifjr wrote post #506:
> testing
roger roger.
What's your vector Victor?

-----------------

poster: Spiraldancer
subject: One Last Commentary
date: Sat Oct  6 02:37:05 2001

I recieved this from my mother. Liked it so much, I had to share.

Tamim Ansary, a writer and columnist in San Francisco, who comes from 
>>Afghanistan...
>>
>>I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the
>>Stone
>>Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean
>>killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this
atrocity,
>>but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can
we
>>do?"  Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have
the
>>belly to do what must be done."
>>
>>And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I
am
>>from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've
never
>>lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will
>>listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.
>>
>>I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no 
>>doubt
>>in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New 
>>York.
>>I agree that something must be done about those monsters.
>>
>>But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the
>>government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant
psychotics
>>who
>>took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a
>>plan.  When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin
Laden, think
>>Hitler.  And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews
in
>>the  concentration camps."
>>
>>It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this
atrocity.
>>They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if
>>someone
>>would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest
of
>>international thugs holed up in their country.
>>
>>Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The
>>answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering.
A
>>few
>>years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled
>>orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. There are
>>millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive
in
>>mass graves.  The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all
>>destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan
>>people have not overthrown the Taliban.
>>
>>We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone
>>Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. 
>>Make
>>the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses?
Done.
>>Turn
>>their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals?
Done.
>>Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health
care?
>>Too late. Someone already did all that.
>>
>>New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at
least
>>get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban
eat,
>>only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. 
Maybe
>>the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too
>>fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and
dropping
>>bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this
>>horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the
>>Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this
time
>>
>>So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with
true
>>fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there
with
>>ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs
to
>>be
>>done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as
>>needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing
>>innocent
>>people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the
table
>>is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die
fighting
>>their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger 
>>than
>>that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go
>>through
>>Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would
>>have
>>to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm
>>going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.
>>
>>And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he
wants.
>>That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all
right
>>there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem
>>ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and
the
>>West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in
those
>>lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even
>>better
>>from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the
West
>>would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years
and
>>millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for
that?
>>
>>Bin Laden does. Anyone else?
>>
>>
>>Tamim Ansary
>>

-Spiralsharer

-----------------

poster: Tektor
subject: Me
date: Sat Oct  6 03:54:11 2001

Just to any who care. I got bit by a blackwidow monday early in the
morning. Saw the doctor who said nothing could be done. Went to
school thrusday, stayed homed the rest of the week and today
(friday). I got really sick and been on alot during the day because
I was bored with nothing else todo. Thanks to those (like Dalak) who
showed some concern :) Feeling a little better everyday but still
hard to eat food as looking at it or smelling it makes me want to
throwup, and wanting to do nothing but sleep.

Tek

-----------------

poster: Tektor
subject: >Me
date: Sat Oct  6 04:25:18 2001

On Sat Oct  6 03:54:11 2001 Tektor wrote post #509:
> Just to any who care. I got bit by a blackwidow monday early in the
> morning. Saw the doctor who said nothing could be done. Went to
> school thrusday, stayed homed the rest of the week and today
> (friday). I got really sick and been on alot during the day because
> I was bored with nothing else todo. Thanks to those (like Dalak) who
> showed some concern :) Feeling a little better everyday but still
> hard to eat food as looking at it or smelling it makes me want to
> throwup, and wanting to do nothing but sleep.
> 
> Tek
I was bit on my right middle finger, not my butt so stop asking! :P

-----------------

poster: Dalak
subject: >Me
date: Sat Oct  6 09:48:18 2001

On Sat Oct  6 03:54:11 2001 Tektor wrote post #509:
> Just to any who care. I got bit by a blackwidow monday early in the
> morning. Saw the doctor who said nothing could be done. Went to
> school thrusday, stayed homed the rest of the week and today
> (friday). I got really sick and been on alot during the day because
> I was bored with nothing else todo. Thanks to those (like Dalak) who
> showed some concern :) Feeling a little better everyday but still
> hard to eat food as looking at it or smelling it makes me want to
> throwup, and wanting to do nothing but sleep.
> 
> Tek
A tear drops from Dalak's eye.

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: hmph
date: Mon Oct  8 00:18:21 2001

Just wanna say sry to anyone I may have been gruff to, just
getting the short end on two eq parties in one day has me
kinda annoyed.  One cuz I had to get my clothes dryer fixed
and the other cuz it took me 10 mins to finish a reinc.

Hope to get a cool party going later - maybe people will be here
to cooperate...

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: New emote
date: Mon Oct  8 07:17:26 2001

tahnval2
"You explain that you are not an English teacher in real life.  You
just play one on Red Dragon"
Usual stuff for what others see.

-----------------

poster: Kaos
subject: >hardware upgrade
date: Mon Oct  8 23:13:00 2001

i think everyone above level 100 should get access to
dark.x.dtu.dk/~khosan/pr0n.. 216GB .. drool..

-----------------

poster: Javier
subject: Me :)
date: Tue Oct  9 16:13:49 2001

Hey guys :)...
This is just to let people know that I'm freezing myself for a few
months. This has nothing to do with any issues on here, etc...it's
mainly because I have much higher workload this semester than
anticipated. That, coupled with planning a wedding makes personal
time neglegable...and unfortunatly, because I'm an addict, I spend
most of that time on here as opposed to doing something productive.
So as a deterent, I'm going to freeze myself...you can always reach
me by e-mail at shag73@hotmail.com, etc...thanks a bunch guys. 
Javi

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: US government rot
date: Tue Oct  9 23:24:09 2001

If you have any interrest in how your country is run try reading this:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/09/1014241&mode=nocomment

It has a few truths about patents, intellectual property etc. And
how AIDS patents are more important than lives even if the medical
industry can't justify it from R&D spendings. They just bought the
right congress people.

Khosan

-----------------

poster: Baer
subject: level costs
date: Wed Oct 10 13:45:00 2001

Level costs for each level from 97 to 100 increment about 600k each time,
then from 100 to 101 incremements about 6m.
Level costs for each level from 101 to 105 increment about 700k each time,
then from 105 to 106 increments about 7m.


If there is no reason for these big jumps in cost, could they be smoothed out?
Hopefully this would make level costs for levels over level 100, cheaper.


-----------------

poster: Lokie
subject: combate silent
date: Fri Oct 12 01:33:01 2001

you know in the main page we brag about how user friendy the mud is
and now you keep adding things to it that puts it ferther and
ferther from the truth. i tried to remove combat silent to see what
im now hitting with MA and low and behold i cant you have too many
functions to keep up with and when you do what it tells you to do
you dont get anything you want.
Look all i wana do is see what im hitting and now i have to go
through a whole help file and ask 2 million question to get my
numbers to show... i think its good to add to reddragon keeps the
game interesting but you fix things that was not broke and add so
much it's a waste of time trying to figure it out, thats if you can.

i have played for a year and a few months, im not saying i know
everything there is to know about RD, i mean hell i was a wiz and
this is got me going crazy! 
lok

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >combate silent
date: Fri Oct 12 06:59:53 2001

On Fri Oct 12 01:33:01 2001 Lokie wrote post #518:
> you know in the main page we brag about how user friendy the mud is
> and now you keep adding things to it that puts it ferther and
> ferther from the truth. i tried to remove combat silent to see what
> im now hitting with MA and low and behold i cant you have too many
> functions to keep up with and when you do what it tells you to do
> you dont get anything you want.
> Look all i wana do is see what im hitting and now i have to go
> through a whole help file and ask 2 million question to get my
> numbers to show... i think its good to add to reddragon keeps the
> game interesting but you fix things that was not broke and add so
> much it's a waste of time trying to figure it out, thats if you can.
> 
> i have played for a year and a few months, im not saying i know
> everything there is to know about RD, i mean hell i was a wiz and
> this is got me going crazy! 
> lok

Please enlighten me and tell me what the combat
options have to do with being newbie friendly?

By default you get normal combat, if you wish
to know more about what you are doing, you type
help combat, and the options are right there, 
granted there are a lot of options to combat
silent, but oddly enough 'combat silent off'
turns them all off

if you read the help on combat, it tells you about combat silent,
you type combat silent, you get a list of the full
help of combat silent, oddly enough 
combat silent off is listed in there.

You managed at some point to turn combat silent
on, I would expect you can turn it off.

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: >>combate silent
date: Fri Oct 12 11:48:56 2001

> Look all i wana do is see what im hitting and now i have to go
> through a whole help file and ask 2 million question to get my
> numbers to show... i think its good to add to reddragon keeps the

ok. I have 3 responses to this post.

1) the smartass answer:
Type 'look'. It should be in the room with you. its even in bright
yellow if you use ansi.

2) helpful answer part 1:
Type 'combat silent off' to see your hit count and strength.

3) helpful answer part 2:
Type 'combat percent' to see the % of damage you did to the monster
(before resistances). Note that combat percent is not part of the
combat silent option, and this could be where you lost the plot,
possibly assuming that it was.

- Tranquil

btw, excuse my smartass comment. im half drunk and cant tolerate
whiners at the best of times.

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>>combate silent
date: Fri Oct 12 18:55:23 2001

nono smart ass answer is
"aw the poor wittle guy can't handel aw da choices, we should get
rid of all those nasty wasty options"

-----------------

poster: Lokie
subject: combat silent
date: Sat Oct 13 01:29:00 2001

heh thanks for all your helpful answers ,) my post came out a bit
wrong... i did read the help files and did all 3 of the smart ass
answers and got nothing. did combat silent on/off combat number
combat precent and a few of the others and it dident change my
combat screen just showed lokie hits mob 6 times...ect.... none of
the options i put in did anything... 
lok

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >combat silent
date: Sat Oct 13 03:36:23 2001

On Sat Oct 13 01:29:00 2001 Lokie wrote post #522:
> heh thanks for all your helpful answers ,) my post came out a bit
> wrong... i did read the help files and did all 3 of the smart ass
> answers and got nothing. did combat silent on/off combat number
> combat precent and a few of the others and it dident change my
> combat screen just showed lokie hits mob 6 times...ect.... none of
> the options i put in did anything... 
> lok
then you were doing something incorrectly.

-----------------

poster: Trigon
subject: Cannibalism?
date: Mon Oct 15 05:29:11 2001

Hrm, all of you go to www.manbeef.com
It's not porn or anything, it's about human meat.
Is this legal? Follow up posts wanted
The Trigon and Smee inquisitive corporation

-----------------

poster: Santiago
subject: >Cannibalism?
date: Mon Oct 15 19:34:03 2001

On Mon Oct 15 05:29:11 2001 Trigon wrote post #524:
> Hrm, all of you go to www.manbeef.com
> It's not porn or anything, it's about human meat.
> Is this legal? Follow up posts wanted
> The Trigon and Smee inquisitive corporation
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa072301a.htm

-----------------

poster: Xphere
subject: a pretty scary thing i heard today
date: Thu Oct 18 09:10:36 2001

My mom's best friend that lived in New York had a date with her
boyfriend on September 10th, the day before the WTC bombing, and her
boyfriend never showed up
as it happens, her boyfriend happened to be muslum.... the next day,
she went to her boyfriends house to see if anything went wrong, upon
arriving, she saw that everything in her boyfriends house was gone
all furnature, everything, gone... she walked through his house and
on the ground in the middle of his living room found a letter,
inside the letter it said:

"I love you and im really sorry, but i cant be seeing you anymore...
but listen to this and dont forget it.... dont be in the city at any
time tomorrow, leave New York.... and stay out of all big shopping
malls on October 31st... i love you"

the next day she turned that letter into the FBI... 

Ever since then she has been nonstop emailing all her friends and
family all over the place asking them to spread the word...

I dunno, thats just my freaky 2 cents for the day...

-----------------

poster: Tektor
subject: >pretty scary thing
date: Thu Oct 18 13:15:27 2001

Well its not that scary. It's a hoax going around email. I have
heard 30+ people from radio shows from people I know from emails
that it was some chick and her boy friend and it was either a friend
of a friend crap, or someones parents or sisters or cousins friends.
All the emails had some made up chick with different phone numbers
that wern't even hers. Scary part is its the exact same story over
and over.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>pretty scary thing
date: Thu Oct 18 13:21:39 2001

On Thu Oct 18 13:15:27 2001 Tektor wrote post #527:
> Well its not that scary. It's a hoax going around email. I have
> heard 30+ people from radio shows from people I know from emails
> that it was some chick and her boy friend and it was either a friend
> of a friend crap, or someones parents or sisters or cousins friends.
> All the emails had some made up chick with different phone numbers
> that wern't even hers. Scary part is its the exact same story over
> and over.
the other version is X was at work, with a person of arabian
descent, did a background check on him, he had multiple
ids, he left the building and said wait till oct 31st.

Lots of rumors going around.

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>>pretty scary thing
date: Thu Oct 18 21:11:47 2001

On Thu Oct 18 13:21:39 2001 Zifnab wrote post #528:
> On Thu Oct 18 13:15:27 2001 Tektor wrote post #527:
> > Well its not that scary. It's a hoax going around email. I have
> > heard 30+ people from radio shows from people I know from emails
> > that it was some chick and her boy friend and it was either a friend
> > of a friend crap, or someones parents or sisters or cousins friends.
> > All the emails had some made up chick with different phone numbers
> > that wern't even hers. Scary part is its the exact same story over
> > and over.
> the other version is X was at work, with a person of arabian
> descent, did a background check on him, he had multiple
> ids, he left the building and said wait till oct 31st.
> 
> Lots of rumors going around.
look this type of stuff up on www.snopes.com 
Aaron

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: shopping malls
date: Fri Oct 19 06:38:52 2001

Who goes shopping on Halloween anyway?

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: >shopping malls
date: Fri Oct 19 09:59:53 2001

On Fri Oct 19 06:38:52 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #531:
> Who goes shopping on Halloween anyway?
Not everyone celebrates Halloween. Probably because a lot of the
rest of the world dont understand it..

-----------------

poster: Daran
subject: >shopping malls
date: Sat Oct 20 01:42:55 2001

On Fri Oct 19 06:38:52 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #531:
> Who goes shopping on Halloween anyway?
Not sure if it still goes on, but when I was like 6, the mall
closest to my home used to have trick or treating in the mall with
the store workers sitting outside their closed stores handing out
candy...

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>shopping malls
date: Sat Oct 20 01:50:28 2001

On Sat Oct 20 01:42:55 2001 Daran wrote post #533:
> On Fri Oct 19 06:38:52 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #531:
> > Who goes shopping on Halloween anyway?
> Not sure if it still goes on, but when I was like 6, the mall
> closest to my home used to have trick or treating in the mall with
> the store workers sitting outside their closed stores handing out
> candy...
nods, most of the shops at our mall have candy for the kiddies.
Cause of the anthrax scares and stuff this year though, 
parents probably gotta note where they got what candy from 
if they go trick or treating at all. :P
'We recommend you forgo trick or treating this Halloween 
since the FBI can't check every pixie stick for you.' -Rep of the Fed.

I'd go trick or treating just the same cause 
there's always some caution and stuff anyway.  Got 
million dollar rewards flying around if you help the 
Feds nail whoever's doing the Anthrax stuff and there's 
plenty of treatment for it around here, so I 
say go for it.  If ur kid gets sick, you run him 
to the hospital.  If it was anthrax and you know who 
gave out the candy with it, throw em to the feds and 
get your million dollars. :P

I'd still throw all the pixie sticks in the trash as a matter of 
course though.  Pixie stick sales probably gonna hit bottom after that 
Fed guy's comment. ;>

-pedron ranty spam

-----------------

poster: Blackthorne
subject: >>>shopping malls
date: Sat Oct 20 01:53:06 2001

On Sat Oct 20 01:50:28 2001 Pedron wrote post #534:
> On Sat Oct 20 01:42:55 2001 Daran wrote post #533:
> > On Fri Oct 19 06:38:52 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #531:
> > > Who goes shopping on Halloween anyway?
> > Not sure if it still goes on, but when I was like 6, the mall
> > closest to my home used to have trick or treating in the mall with
> > the store workers sitting outside their closed stores handing out
> > candy...
> nods, most of the shops at our mall have candy for the kiddies.
> Cause of the anthrax scares and stuff this year though, 
> parents probably gotta note where they got what candy from 
> if they go trick or treating at all. :P
> 'We recommend you forgo trick or treating this Halloween 
> since the FBI can't check every pixie stick for you.' -Rep of the Fed.
> 
> I'd go trick or treating just the same cause 
> there's always some caution and stuff anyway.  Got 
> million dollar rewards flying around if you help the 
> Feds nail whoever's doing the Anthrax stuff and there's 
> plenty of treatment for it around here, so I 
> say go for it.  If ur kid gets sick, you run him 
> to the hospital.  If it was anthrax and you know who 
> gave out the candy with it, throw em to the feds and 
> get your million dollars. :P
> 
> I'd still throw all the pixie sticks in the trash as a matter of 
> course though.  Pixie stick sales probably gonna hit bottom after that 
> Fed guy's comment. ;>
> 
> -pedron ranty spam
Hm, sacrifice your kids for a million dollars? Who would pass up on that?
-BT

-----------------

poster: Pedron
subject: >>>>shopping malls
date: Sat Oct 20 01:54:48 2001

Nah, just get the candy and test it on yourself then. :P
Only guy who died had inhaled alot and then 
let it go for more than a week.  It'd be 2 months of 
antibiotics in trade for a million dollars and nail a terrorist. 

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: >>>shopping malls
date: Sat Oct 20 03:51:19 2001

On Sat Oct 20 01:50:28 2001 Pedron wrote post #534:
> On Sat Oct 20 01:42:55 2001 Daran wrote post #533:
> > On Fri Oct 19 06:38:52 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #531:
> > > Who goes shopping on Halloween anyway?
> > Not sure if it still goes on, but when I was like 6, the mall
> > closest to my home used to have trick or treating in the mall with
> > the store workers sitting outside their closed stores handing out
> > candy...
> nods, most of the shops at our mall have candy for the kiddies.
> Cause of the anthrax scares and stuff this year though, 
> parents probably gotta note where they got what candy from 
> if they go trick or treating at all. :P
> 'We recommend you forgo trick or treating this Halloween 
> since the FBI can't check every pixie stick for you.' -Rep of the Fed.
> 
> I'd go trick or treating just the same cause 
> there's always some caution and stuff anyway.  Got 
> million dollar rewards flying around if you help the 
> Feds nail whoever's doing the Anthrax stuff and there's 
> plenty of treatment for it around here, so I 
> say go for it.  If ur kid gets sick, you run him 
> to the hospital.  If it was anthrax and you know who 
> gave out the candy with it, throw em to the feds and 
> get your million dollars. :P
> 
> I'd still throw all the pixie sticks in the trash as a matter of 
> course though.  Pixie stick sales probably gonna hit bottom after that 
> Fed guy's comment. ;>
> 
> -pedron ranty spam

Hm, sure. Trade your kids life for US$1 million. Sounds like a
decent deal. Right.

- Tranquil cannot believe the idiocy present at this mud at times.


-----------------

poster: Phire
subject: >>>>shopping malls
date: Sat Oct 20 03:54:00 2001

On Sat Oct 20 03:51:19 2001 Tranquil wrote post #537:
> On Sat Oct 20 01:50:28 2001 Pedron wrote post #534:
> > On Sat Oct 20 01:42:55 2001 Daran wrote post #533:
> > > On Fri Oct 19 06:38:52 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #531:
> > > > Who goes shopping on Halloween anyway?
> > > Not sure if it still goes on, but when I was like 6, the mall
> > > closest to my home used to have trick or treating in the mall with
> > > the store workers sitting outside their closed stores handing out
> > > candy...
> > nods, most of the shops at our mall have candy for the kiddies.
> > Cause of the anthrax scares and stuff this year though, 
> > parents probably gotta note where they got what candy from 
> > if they go trick or treating at all. :P
> > 'We recommend you forgo trick or treating this Halloween 
> > since the FBI can't check every pixie stick for you.' -Rep of the Fed.
> > 
> > I'd go trick or treating just the same cause 
> > there's always some caution and stuff anyway.  Got 
> > million dollar rewards flying around if you help the 
> > Feds nail whoever's doing the Anthrax stuff and there's 
> > plenty of treatment for it around here, so I 
> > say go for it.  If ur kid gets sick, you run him 
> > to the hospital.  If it was anthrax and you know who 
> > gave out the candy with it, throw em to the feds and 
> > get your million dollars. :P
> > 
> > I'd still throw all the pixie sticks in the trash as a matter of 
> > course though.  Pixie stick sales probably gonna hit bottom after that 
> > Fed guy's comment. ;>
> > 
> > -pedron ranty spam
> 
> Hm, sure. Trade your kids life for US$1 million. Sounds like a
> decent deal. Right.
> 
> - Tranquil cannot believe the idiocy present at this mud at times.
> 
You can have my pixie sticks when you pry them from my cold dead hands.
Must have pixie sticks!

And I sure won't be giving them to any kids on halloween.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: pedron
date: Sat Oct 20 04:55:07 2001

has been news banned.  Anyone that says this

(speaking of Anthrax)
And even if your kid did get infected, is just a couple 
months taking cypro to beat it back down.


Doesnt deserve the right to post news here, and to be honest
has no right to _ever_ have kids

you are a complete idiot.
**

-----------------

poster: Darkstaff
subject: traveling across united states.
date: Sat Oct 20 10:15:05 2001

Hi
I'm moving from Denver to Boston.
I'm looking to stop somewhere on the way, at any mudders that want
to have me visit!

Looks like I'll be cutting right throught the middle of the united
states, driving my truck
and hauling a trailer... I could use a place to crash (couch or
sofa) and possibly take 
advantage of this situation to meet other mudders... etc

if you would like to host me for a night, around november 15th -
17th please MUDMAIL me, 

tell me what state your in, and how far your off a major highway...

Being unemployed for 1/2 a year with no end in sight, im trying to
keep my trip cheap! :)

Thanks,

Darkstaff

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: apologies
date: Sun Oct 21 18:51:18 2001

To those in my party yest - Cable co came out to add
another channel to us, and fuckkered up the job and
had no cable and no cable modem until this morning

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: >>>>>shopping malls
date: Sun Oct 21 20:30:29 2001

On Sat Oct 20 03:54:00 2001 Phire wrote post #538:
> On Sat Oct 20 03:51:19 2001 Tranquil wrote post #537:
> > On Sat Oct 20 01:50:28 2001 Pedron wrote post #534:
> > > On Sat Oct 20 01:42:55 2001 Daran wrote post #533:
> > > > On Fri Oct 19 06:38:52 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #531:
> > > > > Who goes shopping on Halloween anyway?
> > > > Not sure if it still goes on, but when I was like 6, the mall
> > > > closest to my home used to have trick or treating in the mall with
> > > > the store workers sitting outside their closed stores handing out
> > > > candy...
> > > nods, most of the shops at our mall have candy for the kiddies.
> > > Cause of the anthrax scares and stuff this year though, 
> > > parents probably gotta note where they got what candy from 
> > > if they go trick or treating at all. :P
> > > 'We recommend you forgo trick or treating this Halloween 
> > > since the FBI can't check every pixie stick for you.' -Rep of the Fed.
> > > 
> > > I'd go trick or treating just the same cause 
> > > there's always some caution and stuff anyway.  Got 
> > > million dollar rewards flying around if you help the 
> > > Feds nail whoever's doing the Anthrax stuff and there's 
> > > plenty of treatment for it around here, so I 
> > > say go for it.  If ur kid gets sick, you run him 
> > > to the hospital.  If it was anthrax and you know who 
> > > gave out the candy with it, throw em to the feds and 
> > > get your million dollars. :P
> > > 
> > > I'd still throw all the pixie sticks in the trash as a matter of 
> > > course though.  Pixie stick sales probably gonna hit bottom after that 
> > > Fed guy's comment. ;>
> > > 
> > > -pedron ranty spam
> > 
> > Hm, sure. Trade your kids life for US$1 million. Sounds like a
> > decent deal. Right.
> > 
> > - Tranquil cannot believe the idiocy present at this mud at times.
> > 
> You can have my pixie sticks when you pry them from my cold dead hands.
> Must have pixie sticks!
> 
> And I sure won't be giving them to any kids on halloween.

Give candy to kids? I buy lots of candy and then lock my doors and turn out
the lights. 

Let them get a job and buy their own candy.

--M

-----------------

poster: Fox
subject: A poem to Osama
date: Tue Oct 23 02:47:05 2001


Osama Bin Laden,  your time is short;
We'd rather you die, than come to court.
Why are you  hiding if it was in God's name?
Your just a punk with a turban
a pathetic  shame.

I have a question, about your theory and laws;
How come  YOU never die for the cause?
Is it because you're a coward who counts on
others?
Well here in America, we stand by our brothers.

As is  usual, you failed in your mission;
If you expected pure chaos, you can keep on wishin'
Americans are now focused and stronger than ever;
Your death  has become our next endeavor.
What you tried to kill, doesn't live  in our walls;

It's not in buildings or shopping malls.
If all of our  structures came crashing down;
It would still be there, safe and  sound.

Because pride and courage can't be destroyed;
Even if  the towers leave a deep void.
We'll band together and fill the holes
We'll bury our dead and bless their souls.

But then our energy  will focus on you;
And you'll feel the wrath of the RED, WHITE and
BLUE.

So slither and hide like a snake in the grass;
Because America's coming  to KICK YOUR ASS!!!

-----------------

poster: Kalma
subject: Costume Suggestions Needed :)
date: Tue Oct 23 04:06:32 2001

Zif has given us approval to create some new costumes! 

However, rather than spamming poor zif with tons of new
costume ideas and forcing him to ignore everyone's request,
mail them to me and I'll send him the best and brightest ;)

We need the costume name (short) the description (long) and
a wear and remove message. Email me via mudmail or Email 
(tamarac@solacefarm.com) with the subject of costume idea. 

I'll post the winning costumes/creators after Zif approves 
them :)

Kalma

-----------------

poster: Baer
subject: Daylight Savings Time
date: Tue Oct 23 11:09:52 2001


South east Australia begins Daylight Savings this weekend,
moving our clocks forward one hour.

Most of Europe and America also end Daylight Savings this weekend,
moving their clocks back one hour.

Copenhagen time should change on 28 October at 0100 UTC.
That is at 3am local time, it will change to 2am local time.
You can see this with the rltime command.

This page has a list of when daylight savings times start and end
http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst2001b.html

This is a reasonably fast loading B&W map of world time zones.
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/world_tzones.html

I expect the world to adjust it's schedule to my new hours.

Baer


-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >Costume Suggestions Needed :)
date: Wed Oct 24 04:30:38 2001

On Tue Oct 23 04:06:32 2001 Kalma wrote post #545:
> Zif has given us approval to create some new costumes! 
> 
> However, rather than spamming poor zif with tons of new
> costume ideas and forcing him to ignore everyone's request,
> mail them to me and I'll send him the best and brightest ;)
> 
> We need the costume name (short) the description (long) and
> a wear and remove message. Email me via mudmail or Email 
> (tamarac@solacefarm.com) with the subject of costume idea. 
> 
> I'll post the winning costumes/creators after Zif approves 
> them :)
> 
> Kalma

I personally prefer the Wyrntest costume.

-----------------

poster: Caliban
subject: Guild Items
date: Wed Oct 24 09:39:18 2001

I leveled in my guild item and none of my stats or regen changed
whatsoever. Does anyone have an reason why this happened? I thought 
as you leveled your guild item it increased its stats and regen.
Could someone shed some light on this for me?


-Cal

-----------------

poster: Koma
subject: >Guild Items
date: Wed Oct 24 11:48:03 2001

On Wed Oct 24 09:39:18 2001 Caliban wrote post #549:
> I leveled in my guild item and none of my stats or regen changed
> whatsoever. Does anyone have an reason why this happened? I thought 
> as you leveled your guild item it increased its stats and regen.
> Could someone shed some light on this for me?
> 
> 
> -Cal

help guild_items

"Rank defines mostly the status of a guild memberand has no direct
impact on the game figures."


-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Guild Items
date: Wed Oct 24 14:00:37 2001

On Wed Oct 24 09:39:18 2001 Caliban wrote post #549:
> I leveled in my guild item and none of my stats or regen changed
> whatsoever. Does anyone have an reason why this happened? I thought 
> as you leveled your guild item it increased its stats and regen.
> Could someone shed some light on this for me?
> 
> 
> -Cal
its a flaw with the guild item, it needs to be dested
and recreated to get the new stats.

So next time you quit/reenter.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>Guild Items
date: Wed Oct 24 14:01:37 2001

On Wed Oct 24 14:00:37 2001 Zifnab wrote post #551:
> On Wed Oct 24 09:39:18 2001 Caliban wrote post #549:
> > I leveled in my guild item and none of my stats or regen changed
> > whatsoever. Does anyone have an reason why this happened? I thought 
> > as you leveled your guild item it increased its stats and regen.
> > Could someone shed some light on this for me?
> > 
> > 
> > -Cal
> its a flaw with the guild item, it needs to be dested
> and recreated to get the new stats.
> 
> So next time you quit/reenter.
I will look at it in an hour or so, I know the stats only 
change when its dested/recreated, however ranking may not
affect that as the previous post said.

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >Guild Items
date: Wed Oct 24 21:48:49 2001

On Wed Oct 24 09:39:18 2001 Caliban wrote post #549:
> I leveled in my guild item and none of my stats or regen changed
> whatsoever. Does anyone have an reason why this happened? I thought 
> as you leveled your guild item it increased its stats and regen.
> Could someone shed some light on this for me?
> 
> 
> -Cal
Nope.  Guild item level is just for flavour.  It has no direct bearing
on guild item power.  That is a function of your guild mastery, not
your guild level.

-----------------

poster: Apathy
subject: Eq book page
date: Thu Oct 25 02:22:06 2001

The eq book page has been updated.
http://dark.x.dtu.dk/~apathy/eq/eq.cgi

-Apathy

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >>>Guild Items
date: Thu Oct 25 04:29:01 2001

On Wed Oct 24 14:01:37 2001 Zifnab wrote post #552:
> On Wed Oct 24 14:00:37 2001 Zifnab wrote post #551:
> > On Wed Oct 24 09:39:18 2001 Caliban wrote post #549:
> > > I leveled in my guild item and none of my stats or regen changed
> > > whatsoever. Does anyone have an reason why this happened? I thought 
> > > as you leveled your guild item it increased its stats and regen.
> > > Could someone shed some light on this for me?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -Cal
> > its a flaw with the guild item, it needs to be dested
> > and recreated to get the new stats.
> > 
> > So next time you quit/reenter.
> I will look at it in an hour or so, I know the stats only 
> change when its dested/recreated, however ranking may not
> affect that as the previous post said.

I've noticed this issue as well, but ... I have the answer ... I
think.  Since quiting currently is about as effective as going link
dead as far as the status of your body being cleaned up and thrown
away, you have to wait until reboot or have quit for a long enough
period that the mud tosses you ... that's like 30-60 minutes right
now?

Since equipment gives stats when you wear/wield, and since you can't
remove guild eq to rewear ... ya get stuck with older stats until
then.

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >>>>Guild Items
date: Thu Oct 25 04:31:58 2001

On Thu Oct 25 04:29:01 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #555:
> On Wed Oct 24 14:01:37 2001 Zifnab wrote post #552:
> > On Wed Oct 24 14:00:37 2001 Zifnab wrote post #551:
> > > On Wed Oct 24 09:39:18 2001 Caliban wrote post #549:
> > > > I leveled in my guild item and none of my stats or regen changed
> > > > whatsoever. Does anyone have an reason why this happened? I thought 
> > > > as you leveled your guild item it increased its stats and regen.
> > > > Could someone shed some light on this for me?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -Cal
> > > its a flaw with the guild item, it needs to be dested
> > > and recreated to get the new stats.
> > > 
> > > So next time you quit/reenter.
> > I will look at it in an hour or so, I know the stats only 
> > change when its dested/recreated, however ranking may not
> > affect that as the previous post said.
> 
> I've noticed this issue as well, but ... I have the answer ... I
> think.  Since quiting currently is about as effective as going link
> dead as far as the status of your body being cleaned up and thrown
> away, you have to wait until reboot or have quit for a long enough
> period that the mud tosses you ... that's like 30-60 minutes right
> now?
> 
> Since equipment gives stats when you wear/wield, and since you can't
> remove guild eq to rewear ... ya get stuck with older stats until
> then.

How about this: when your stats increase with your guild item,
you're automatically dested. Then you can log back on and you get
your new stats right away. :)

-WC

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>>>Guild Items
date: Thu Oct 25 04:36:01 2001

> > I will look at it in an hour or so, I know the stats only 
> > change when its dested/recreated, however ranking may not
> > affect that as the previous post said.
> 
> I've noticed this issue as well, but ... I have the answer ... I
> think.  Since quiting currently is about as effective as going link
> dead as far as the status of your body being cleaned up and thrown
> away, you have to wait until reboot or have quit for a long enough
> period that the mud tosses you ... that's like 30-60 minutes right
> now?
> 
> Since equipment gives stats when you wear/wield, and since you can't
> remove guild eq to rewear ... ya get stuck with older stats until
> then.
I have mentioned many times I want to rewrite hte guild objects
I have no time to do it right now though.

**

-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: woodsman
date: Sat Oct 27 08:28:16 2001

I would just like to point out that woodsman is a guild that is waay
out of tune. I mean, here's a guild that doesn't even have a omicron
and yet i as a woodsman can solo 100k/min. I haven't really tested
much exactly what needs to be tuned, but the fact that i never have
to regen unless i get hit by spells tells you something. I just
think that someone should look into this guild and balance it
somewhat. As it is, anyone that reinc's woodsman can solo rates
better than most ppls in a party.
*/Snoop

-----------------

poster: Baer
subject: >woodsman
date: Sat Oct 27 09:17:28 2001

On Sat Oct 27 08:28:16 2001 Snoop wrote post #558:
> I would just like to point out that woodsman is a guild that is waay
> out of tune. I mean, here's a guild that doesn't even have a omicron
> and yet i as a woodsman can solo 100k/min. I haven't really tested
> much exactly what needs to be tuned, but the fact that i never have
> to regen unless i get hit by spells tells you something. I just
> think that someone should look into this guild and balance it
> somewhat. As it is, anyone that reinc's woodsman can solo rates
> better than most ppls in a party.
> */Snoop

Certainly they seem to tank large mobs better than I would expect.

-----------------

poster: Durin
subject: >woodsman
date: Sat Oct 27 10:54:02 2001

On Sat Oct 27 08:28:16 2001 Snoop wrote post #558:
> I would just like to point out that woodsman is a guild that is waay
> out of tune. I mean, here's a guild that doesn't even have a omicron
> and yet i as a woodsman can solo 100k/min. I haven't really tested
> much exactly what needs to be tuned, but the fact that i never have
> to regen unless i get hit by spells tells you something. I just
> think that someone should look into this guild and balance it
> somewhat. As it is, anyone that reinc's woodsman can solo rates
> better than most ppls in a party.
> */Snoop
Ok I'll rephrase my followup. Out of tune guild? How about gem
blaster/ druid or mistmage? They can do all the same soloing plus
they are wanted for EVERY party from exp to eq. Or take any caster,
they fit in every situation. That's an heck of an bonus. Woodsmen,
MA's and Thieves - these poor guys (MA and Thief especially) are a
clear minority in the game because they acctually suck ass, big
time. No one wants them for EQ parties at least, and quite seldom do
you see them in exp parties either (if they don't happen to be very
good friends).

Woodsmen does have it a bit better than some others. It is VERY nice
guild for those solitary gaming players who just want to log in,
play some and log out. They acctually can do exp that way! Best of
them tank even decently for a party, if something maybe tune from
there a bit - we don't want to step on Fighter toes too much, some
stepping of course is just good.

Please don't tune all the guilds to the same format. Let them have
unique features like woodsmen giving out pretty good exp for
SOLOers. If this is tuned, then its just back to the caster form
with what you can do anything you want.

-Durin

-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: >>woodsman
date: Sat Oct 27 10:58:32 2001

Shrug, i'm not sayin tune it to oblivion. What i am sayin is that no
guild should be able to solo 100k rates, especially a guild that
doesn't even have an omicron. Not many people can get 100k/mbr in a
party and doing that solo makes it way to easy to climb the plaque
and get big fast. Of course, i'm aware that not everyone solo's that
good as woodsman, but compared to other guilds they still solo way
to good. I think this mud was intended to be and hopefully still is
more directed towards partyin than soloin. It's ok if a guild can
solo ok, but i still think that you should earn the best exp by
partyin and if a guild is soloin this high rates than the party
system is totally useless. 
*/Snoop

-----------------

poster: Koma
subject: >>>woodsman
date: Sat Oct 27 13:28:58 2001

I believe that a _slight_ tune for woodsmen might be in order.
Woodsmen do make good exp, but Snoop's 100k/min is definitely not 
the norm. I believe that good solo casters make more exp solo 
than what woodsmen do. Plus, some of them are also able to do EQ.

Woodsmen, like thieves and martial artists, are generally not 
accepted in EQ parties.  Being an "exp guild", they should be 
slightly better in it compared to guilds who can do either exp or 
EQ. I do not necessarily mean solo power, but they should be 
useful in exp parties, and preferably, they should be wanted to 
join an exp party over a guild who can do both exp and EQ. 

I see the biggest problem with woodsmen now is the fact that they 
don't take enough damage. With the gnome healing and their good 
phys resist, they can tank maybe too well. Warriors should be the 
number one in tanking. This fact of course affects solo rates 
too.

Koma, the Ranger


-----------------

poster: Jaguar
subject: >>>>woodsman
date: Sat Oct 27 17:00:28 2001

I feel I need to speak as a lower worth player (125m) who thinks you
silly highbies are gonna wreck woodsman for players my worth. I'd
just like to point out that I have been woodsman most of my time
here, before any of you tell me that I don't know what I'm talking
about (as I have been told before)
At lower levels up until about lvl 40 woodsmen have nothing to offer
an exp party, they can't tank as good as fighters or do the damage
of blasters. And its only until lvl 43 when we get spirit harmony we
can do decent damage to solo properly. I was harmer for a short
time, and I could solo more exp from that than I can now, and that
was when I was at half my worth.
So people, don't call for gnome healing or physical resistance to be
tuned, spare a thought for us lower worth players, its not very
popular as it is at lower levels. The way I get most of my exp is
through tanking small 2/3 person parties, take my tanking ability
away and I might as well become fighter. *yawn* Leave my guild
alone!  I like having loads of stuff to train.

Jaggy

-----------------

poster: Erec
subject: >>>>>woodsman
date: Sat Oct 27 17:19:17 2001

Sigwald deals with the woodsman guild.  He hasn't been seen
in months, really.  Until he shows up again, I don't thing
anythings going to change in woodsman.

When he does, a number of the more long-term woodsman have 
already gotten together, and tried to come up with some
ideas to spread the damage dealing in the guild out over a 
few more levels (including an omicron).

I don't think snoop being able to solo 100k/min is all that 
bad - I can think of a couple of other guilds that can do 
that, at his worth.  And some of them have better partying
potential than woodsman


I also think woodsman tanks about as it should - as one could
tank at a fighter of about a third the worth, with a much 
lower cap than a fighter.  That being said, I suspect woodsmen
levels about 60-80 are well ahead of the curve in terms of
solo rates.

I hate, however, to get those levels tuned, as they tend 
to be really frustrating ones.

        -Erec

-----------------

poster: Elendor
subject: woodsman
date: Sat Oct 27 17:46:53 2001

I do not belive that woodsman needs a tune, ok yes they can do a V
good rate solo,
however unless you have alot of spare wishes or a V good abjurer you
really cant
tank high end creatures, this is because when they get the spells
off the damage
from them while only annoying a true tank almost kill the woodsman. 

Spellcasters can still do as good if not better rate then a woodsmn
soloin so talking
about this guild removin the partying in the mud seems to be a bit
over the top.

Add to that the fact that woodsman simply cant do eq and it seems to me to be
one of the most balanced guilds in the game to this date, and the
only non spellcaster
who can do anything without constant partying, and everyone knows
how difficult it
can be to get parties goin at times.

Long live the woodsman AS IT IS.


Elendor.

-----------------

poster: Phire
subject: >woodsman
date: Sat Oct 27 18:33:12 2001

On Sat Oct 27 17:46:53 2001 Elendor wrote post #566:
> I do not belive that woodsman needs a tune, ok yes they can do a V
> good rate solo,
> however unless you have alot of spare wishes or a V good abjurer you
> really cant
> tank high end creatures, this is because when they get the spells
> off the damage
> from them while only annoying a true tank almost kill the woodsman. 
> 
> Spellcasters can still do as good if not better rate then a woodsmn
> soloin so talking
> about this guild removin the partying in the mud seems to be a bit
> over the top.
> 
> Add to that the fact that woodsman simply cant do eq and it seems to me to
be
> one of the most balanced guilds in the game to this date, and the
> only non spellcaster
> who can do anything without constant partying, and everyone knows
> how difficult it
> can be to get parties goin at times.
> 
> Long live the woodsman AS IT IS.
> 
> 
> Elendor.
Rule #1 in tuning, don't tune because of what some level 100+ character does
since they will always be out of tune (unless you decimate midbies and below).

If woodsman is so rocking, then why isn't half the mud in the woodsman
guild (like when lava mage was the ONE TRUE GUILD way back in the day)?

Maybe I'm missing something (since I've never been a woodsman) but
this doesn't come
close to the vampire-lava mage or the soloing exorcist problems that
we've had in 
the past

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: woodsman/mist mages
date: Sun Oct 28 02:43:38 2001

Mist mages are NOT capable of the rates in the range that woodsman
is capable of.  Our ability to regen sp is limited significantly and
even those of significantly high levels aren't much better than the
lower levels except for the added regened gained in between since
the elemental guild advancement of 2 more gammas and another bravo
help nearly 0%.

-----------------

poster: Pure
subject: >>woodsman
date: Sun Oct 28 11:35:32 2001

I agree with snoop. Way out of tune.

Pure

-----------------

poster: Kaos
subject: >>>woodsman
date: Sun Oct 28 14:45:56 2001

Me too, I was woodsman with a split body, don't remember exacly
how much xp I used, but around 500M.. And I could still do the
same rate Snoop said he could, so he's not one gigbie that's
out of tune, it's the guild.. simple as that..

-----------------

poster: Durin
subject: Woodsmen
date: Sun Oct 28 16:42:55 2001

Like someone noted on the dragon channel a few days ago, it most
often for some reason, the highend players who happen to accuse a
guild being out of tune. It allways is the case too that people
complain of too guild guilds rather than guilds sucking. People jsut
are that way, your brother can suck as bad as he can just that he
can't be better than you in anyway.

The recent comment from few highbies to snoops post, are in one
word, stupid. There has been allready good discussion here regarding
the woodsmen, and even few suggestions to tune them a bit, for
example from Koma.

But since we are in the line of "This guild is out of WAY out of
tune, TUNE IT!!!! NOW!!!" I suggest that we remove or at least tune
harshly the body splitting ability. It IS way out of tune. Tune it.

-Durin

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: Woodsman,ect. 
date: Mon Oct 29 00:46:02 2001

Ok, here is my 2 cents. 

IMO, the woodsman guild is hardly out of tune.  
I've never been woodsman before, but I have been druid. 
And when I compared my rates to some friends of mine who were
woodsman at the time, they were pretty damn close. 
So what you say.  
Well, as druid, I could also join nearly any exp party and a lot of
eq parties as well. 
And as far as mist mages go, who the hell brought them into this
conversation anyway? 
Woodsman guild is fine. 
And like Phire said, if it was -that- out of tune, there would be a
-lot- more people reinc'g woodsman. 
Q the tired. 

-----------------

poster: Mixer
subject: >Woodsman,ect. 
date: Mon Oct 29 07:43:15 2001

Guys

Woodsman is out of tune.  I know it, and I've put together some
thoughts for how to make it more reasonable.

Without Sigs here, nothing is going to get changed, so lets
make this the last post until some tunage can start.

-----------------

poster: Slip
subject: challenge
date: Mon Oct 29 13:33:11 2001

A middle aged woman is in hospital, her husband by her side. She
gives birth to two children on the same day. The children are not
twins. What happened?

10k gold prize to the first two people to _mail_ me the correct explanation.

Slip

-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: >challenge
date: Mon Oct 29 17:00:54 2001

On Mon Oct 29 13:33:11 2001 Slip wrote post #574:
> A middle aged woman is in hospital, her husband by her side. She
> gives birth to two children on the same day. The children are not
> twins. What happened?
> 
> 10k gold prize to the first two people to _mail_ me the correct explanation.
> 
> Slip

10k?!? Only 10k? Thats not worth my time. My brain gets paid 50x
that rate per hour. In fact, I'm sending you the bill for having to
read that post. This reply is free since I'm not using my brain. It
is off getting coffee and seeing if there are any more doughnuts
left. You know, _real_ work.

-----------------

poster: Zax
subject: >>woodsman
date: Tue Oct 30 08:21:54 2001

On Sat Oct 27 18:33:12 2001 Phire wrote post #567:
> On Sat Oct 27 17:46:53 2001 Elendor wrote post #566:
> > I do not belive that woodsman needs a tune, ok yes they can do a V
> > good rate solo,
> > however unless you have alot of spare wishes or a V good abjurer you
> > really cant
> > tank high end creatures, this is because when they get the spells
> > off the damage
> > from them while only annoying a true tank almost kill the woodsman. 
> > 
> > Spellcasters can still do as good if not better rate then a woodsmn
> > soloin so talking
> > about this guild removin the partying in the mud seems to be a bit
> > over the top.
> > 
> > Add to that the fact that woodsman simply cant do eq and it seems to me to
> be
> > one of the most balanced guilds in the game to this date, and the
> > only non spellcaster
> > who can do anything without constant partying, and everyone knows
> > how difficult it
> > can be to get parties goin at times.
> > 
> > Long live the woodsman AS IT IS.
> > 
> > 
> > Elendor.
> Rule #1 in tuning, don't tune because of what some level 100+ character does
> since they will always be out of tune (unless you decimate midbies and
below).
> 
> If woodsman is so rocking, then why isn't half the mud in the woodsman
> guild (like when lava mage was the ONE TRUE GUILD way back in the day)?
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something (since I've never been a woodsman) but
> this doesn't come
> close to the vampire-lava mage or the soloing exorcist problems that
> we've had in 
> the past
hey! not everyone went lava mage!

-----------------

poster: Slip
subject: >challenge
date: Tue Oct 30 10:46:11 2001

On Mon Oct 29 13:33:11 2001 Slip wrote post #574:
> A middle aged woman is in hospital, her husband by her side. She
> gives birth to two children on the same day. The children are not
> twins. What happened?
> 
> 10k gold prize to the first two people to _mail_ me the correct explanation.
> 
> Slip

Seven good answers received to a tough problem with multiple solutions :)
One was the answer I was looking for, congratulations to Mirrim.
On a side note, Mirrim was also a winner of my challenge last year.

The other reward remains unclaimed (except by Marvin).
To see the solution scroll down.























No it was not different years.
No she was not a doctor.
No there was no genetic cloning or test tube babies.
No there were not any babies who died.

Simply, the woman gave birth to triplets.

Thanks for playing!
Slip

-----------------

poster: Dram
subject: woodsman
date: Tue Oct 30 16:55:33 2001

Could somebody mail me some of the ideas of what needs to be changed
.I am not sig but we work together so someone let me in on this and
i will see what i can do.

Dram

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >woodsman
date: Tue Oct 30 17:45:36 2001

On Tue Oct 30 16:55:33 2001 Dram wrote post #578:
> Could somebody mail me some of the ideas of what needs to be changed
> .I am not sig but we work together so someone let me in on this and
> i will see what i can do.
> 
> Dram
Lets not get to carried away here.  People are saying both its
out of tune, and that its not.  I have code in place to watch 
a few things.  Lets see over the next few days if they are truely earning
more exp than others.  Let me tell you so far they arent.

-----------------

poster: Pure
subject: >>woodsman
date: Tue Oct 30 17:48:30 2001

On Tue Oct 30 17:45:36 2001 Zifnab wrote post #579:
> On Tue Oct 30 16:55:33 2001 Dram wrote post #578:
> > Could somebody mail me some of the ideas of what needs to be changed
> > .I am not sig but we work together so someone let me in on this and
> > i will see what i can do.
> > 
> > Dram
> Lets not get to carried away here.  People are saying both its
> out of tune, and that its not.  I have code in place to watch 
> a few things.  Lets see over the next few days if they are truely earning
> more exp than others.  Let me tell you so far they arent.

I don't think the xp-rate is the main problem here, but rather
that they are better suited tanks than fighters AND can keep
an excellent rate, which warriors cannot.

Pure

-----------------

poster: Jomo
subject: Woodsman
date: Tue Oct 30 17:55:08 2001

I've kept quiet on this, but I figured I'd finally dump what I'm thinking.

My perception is that Woodsman is Unbalanced -- in other words, they
solo really
well, but  they  are shunned for other things.  This doesn't mean
they should be 
tuned.. but it might.

I think alot of the stigma attached to woodsman is a social issue on here.  I
believe Woodsman can tank midbie level eq and I've seen some
woodsman even solo a very consistent rate without wearing eq at all.


If we as players got our perceptions aligned, I believe Woodsmen would be
more obviously in need of a tune.

As far as the argument that if it were so out of tune, why aren't more
players joining woodsman? -- Players do things for a lot of dumb
reasons.. I'd suspect most don't have fig sets handy, have a favorite guild, 
or are socially resistent to going woodsman.

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: wood
date: Tue Oct 30 17:58:53 2001

well i forgot to hit f, so heres my thoughts on jomos last thought
some people just suck as woodsmen, me ebing one of those, hence why
i will never reinc it again

-lu

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >Woodsman
date: Tue Oct 30 19:28:45 2001

Just a note, I really doubt that social pressure does much to keep
people out of overly strong guilds.  Players are exp whores for the
most part.  I know cuz I was one.  
Mags

-----------------

poster: Jomo
subject: Magneto
date: Tue Oct 30 19:31:40 2001

Agreed. But if someone doesn't have exp. 
playing all the guilds we have to offer, 
they ask their friends "Is X any good to play?".

If the perception is that it sucks at (soloing, eqing, partying), 
they might skip it in favor of (insert popular guild here).

I've seen this happen before at least with Martial Artists,
which is perceived to suck -- but I've seen players making
pretty decent progress with at higher levels.

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >wood
date: Tue Oct 30 20:08:02 2001

On Tue Oct 30 17:58:53 2001 Lu wrote post #582:
> well i forgot to hit f, so heres my thoughts on jomos last thought
> some people just suck as woodsmen, me ebing one of those, hence why
> i will never reinc it again
> 
> -lu
me too - I sucked so much as Woodsman that I reinced out almost
immediately, losing all the gold I had (to Eje) and 8% of my worth.
I do far better as a warrior

-----------------

poster: Coal
subject: Woodsman
date: Tue Oct 30 20:50:21 2001

 Jomo has a few valid points here, yes woodsman can tank midbie eq
mobs in the 1-1.5m range. But let me be quick to point out that they
need a full eq party to do that and still it's not easy. If a
warrior with a good shield/weapon parry and shield deflection were
to take over for said woodsman the time taken to kill the same mob
would be roughly half.  Woodsman don't have enuogh hps to take most
midbie level mob spell attacks without serious risk of death and
that's with extra hps from rack and warrior potions.
 The reasons woodsman solo so well is that they do about 7 damage
types while in combat, they have a fire that heals 25-48/flicker
depending on masteries, 2 shield prots that heal hps in combat, the
possibility of having 4 animal familars, they also use
shields...which is important in -not- taking damage (I noticed that
in regular combat as a warrior if I was using my shield/weapon
instead of 2 weapons I took a lot less damage), most woodsman are
also dwarves which are small and enhances dodging, they also can max
dodge (I tend to dodge about 200-400 times an hour at least), and we
have 3 prot skills which give stun res and some physres, plus
depending on what eq you wear whether str/con or dex/phys_res eq,
most of use have huge phys_res and lots of avoid_hits.
 I think the main problem that people see is that woodsman doesn't
take alot of damage while soloing. I think alot of that is due to
the gnome guard healing once every round or 2, if it was to be cut
back to every 5 or 6 rounds I think woodsman would take alot more
damage which would lower thier "ungodly" solo rate. I think the
skills should be a little more costly too, although that could be
just my cheap dwarven skill cost....oh yeah it is...nm skill costs
are fine...also would like to rant that even woodsman in the 1g
range can't keep a snoop solo rate for more then one kill. =)
-Coal_who's_gonna_milk_xp_before_he_gets_tuned!

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: Yet more about Woodsman
date: Tue Oct 30 22:08:40 2001

Something which I have not seen mentioned in a single news post
with regard to this subject, and which I think is a *major* factor
in how well a given player does *anything* in any particular
guild, is competance in mudding at that guild, and in some cases,
just plain mudding competance.

A simple example: I tend to be quite successful at tanking and
soloist guilds, but I tend to suck at healer and party support
guilds. Why? I dont know. I guess that I just have the right
mentality to be a tank or a soloist. I like having control of the
party, always have, and probably always will.

The same is true for everyone. We all have our own preferance,
our own mentality, and we all will play a guild differently than
other people we may ask who also play that guild. Player X may
choose to use peel flesh for his main damage spell after knocking
a mob down with harm body, but player Y may choose to use magical
brand for the same effect. I know from personal experience that
both spells have their advantages, and I max both so that I can
choose based on my circumstances, which would be best to use.

Now, to the point of my post. The woodsman guild provides the
opportunity for earning a nice rate, both by solo and in a party,
but what I have noticed is that it takes a certain level of
competance in the guild, which you can get only by practicing,
and it requires that you work at it. It isn't a guild where you
can just point and shoot, such as evoker or some other caster
guilds, and it cannot be treated like a maintaince-free fighter
either.

What I have also noticed is this: Other guilds also provide the
same level of success in what they were designed to do. If they
were designed for xp, chances are they do xp as well (like the
130m witch I noticed consistently holding 23k/minute in a single
person party, killing the same mobs in the same area I was,
while I was with a healer, making the same personal rate at
>300m) as a guild designed for eq will do eq.

Some guilds suck for solo. Some suck for big parties. Some suck
for xp, or gold, or eq. Some just plain suck, its true. But the
truth is, most guilds here have the potential to be as successful
in what they were designed to do as woodsman is in what it was
designed to do.

If any particular player thinks otherwise, maybe they should ask
some people who have been that successful in the guild they want
to know about, how they played said guild, and try playing it
their way, keeping in mind exactly what the guild was designed
to do, whether it be party or solo oriented, meant to have many
powerful damage types like evoker, meant to heal well like
healer, meant to tank massive eq like warrior, etc.

- Tranquil


-----------------

poster: Caliban
subject: Puke
date: Wed Oct 31 00:27:28 2001

For christs sake if I read another post about woodsmen good or 
bad I think ill friggin puke.

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >Woodsman
date: Wed Oct 31 01:02:40 2001

On Tue Oct 30 17:55:08 2001 Jomo wrote post #581:
> I've kept quiet on this, but I figured I'd finally dump what I'm thinking.
> 
> My perception is that Woodsman is Unbalanced -- in other words, they
> solo really
> well, but  they  are shunned for other things.  This doesn't mean
> they should be 
> tuned.. but it might.
> 
> I think alot of the stigma attached to woodsman is a social issue on here.
 I
> believe Woodsman can tank midbie level eq and I've seen some
> woodsman even solo a very consistent rate without wearing eq at all.
> 
> 
> If we as players got our perceptions aligned, I believe Woodsmen would be
> more obviously in need of a tune.
> 
> As far as the argument that if it were so out of tune, why aren't more
> players joining woodsman? -- Players do things for a lot of dumb
> reasons.. I'd suspect most don't have fig sets handy, have a favorite
guild, 
> or are socially resistent to going woodsman.

Well, I'm mist mage currently, but I've been told that mist is only
viable till about 500meg, then to actually do anything useful, I'd
probably have to go woodsman till I was a gig, then I could go
nether mage.
Note that a woodsman told me this. Note also that mist/lava has a
huge gap between getting the bravo and getting the omnicron.

I've been hearing different things though, but I'm wondering if
maybe there needs to be a bit more focus for the guild tree... right
now it seems like they can do alot of different things (regardless
of how well you feel you deserve to do buttloads of exp just cause
you have 5 billion skills to train)

-WC

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: puke
date: Wed Oct 31 23:15:16 2001

Cleanup asile 4!!!

-----------------

poster: Fox
subject: Races.
date: Thu Nov  1 21:16:24 2001

At this point. The races that are basically made for MA, Mantisman(4
armed creatures) were taken out of the mud, yet there are monsters
in the mud still yet as well. Martial Artist's suck as it is right
now, why not put Mantisman back in the game. The race fits this
theme of the mud, Vinnipier was good with 3 arms, Xorn's as well. At
current state, No one plays Vinnipiers or Xorn's anymore. The
drasitc change made by Sigwald, dropping those races and tearing a
huge whole in MA is horrid, put Mantisman back in so MA's don't suck
for lower worth players such as myself.  
I'm not very awake, if I made sense, fine, if not, oh well. 
Simple statment: Red Dragon needs Mantismen w/ four arms, Vinnipier
& Xorn w/ 3 arms put back into the game.

-----------------

poster: Phire
subject: >Races.
date: Thu Nov  1 21:19:58 2001

On Thu Nov  1 21:16:24 2001 Fox wrote post #591:
> At this point. The races that are basically made for MA, Mantisman(4
> armed creatures) were taken out of the mud, yet there are monsters
> in the mud still yet as well. Martial Artist's suck as it is right
> now, why not put Mantisman back in the game. The race fits this
> theme of the mud, Vinnipier was good with 3 arms, Xorn's as well. At
> current state, No one plays Vinnipiers or Xorn's anymore. The
> drasitc change made by Sigwald, dropping those races and tearing a
> huge whole in MA is horrid, put Mantisman back in so MA's don't suck
> for lower worth players such as myself.  
> I'm not very awake, if I made sense, fine, if not, oh well. 
> Simple statment: Red Dragon needs Mantismen w/ four arms, Vinnipier
> & Xorn w/ 3 arms put back into the game.

Woodsman with 3 arms ... 
Having more than 2 arms was removed from the game because it created
a tuning nightmare for melee hitters (which caused every 2 armed race
to be ineffective for causing damage)

Remember, these changes would not just affect MA but also warrior, woodsman,
thief and bard

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: >>Races.
date: Thu Nov  1 21:22:50 2001

On Thu Nov  1 21:19:58 2001 Phire wrote post #592:
> On Thu Nov  1 21:16:24 2001 Fox wrote post #591:
> > At this point. The races that are basically made for MA, Mantisman(4
> > armed creatures) were taken out of the mud, yet there are monsters
> > in the mud still yet as well. Martial Artist's suck as it is right
> > now, why not put Mantisman back in the game. The race fits this
> > theme of the mud, Vinnipier was good with 3 arms, Xorn's as well. At
> > current state, No one plays Vinnipiers or Xorn's anymore. The
> > drasitc change made by Sigwald, dropping those races and tearing a
> > huge whole in MA is horrid, put Mantisman back in so MA's don't suck
> > for lower worth players such as myself.  
> > I'm not very awake, if I made sense, fine, if not, oh well. 
> > Simple statment: Red Dragon needs Mantismen w/ four arms, Vinnipier
> > & Xorn w/ 3 arms put back into the game.
> 
> Woodsman with 3 arms ... 
> Having more than 2 arms was removed from the game because it created
> a tuning nightmare for melee hitters (which caused every 2 armed race
> to be ineffective for causing damage)
> 
> Remember, these changes would not just affect MA but also warrior, woodsman,
> thief and bard

Actually, it wouldnt really make any difference to woodsman, as all
of these races have a too-low spellmax for them to be remotely
useful for woodsman. Not that I agree totally with Fox, but I did
feel it was neccessary to point out that woodsmen need a good
spellmax, whereas MA's dont.

- Tranquil


-----------------

poster: Fox
subject: >>Races.
date: Thu Nov  1 21:24:57 2001

On Thu Nov  1 21:19:58 2001 Phire wrote post #592:
> On Thu Nov  1 21:16:24 2001 Fox wrote post #591:
> > At this point. The races that are basically made for MA, Mantisman(4
> > armed creatures) were taken out of the mud, yet there are monsters
> > in the mud still yet as well. Martial Artist's suck as it is right
> > now, why not put Mantisman back in the game. The race fits this
> > theme of the mud, Vinnipier was good with 3 arms, Xorn's as well. At
> > current state, No one plays Vinnipiers or Xorn's anymore. The
> > drasitc change made by Sigwald, dropping those races and tearing a
> > huge whole in MA is horrid, put Mantisman back in so MA's don't suck
> > for lower worth players such as myself.  
> > I'm not very awake, if I made sense, fine, if not, oh well. 
> > Simple statment: Red Dragon needs Mantismen w/ four arms, Vinnipier
> > & Xorn w/ 3 arms put back into the game.
> 
> Woodsman with 3 arms ... 
> Having more than 2 arms was removed from the game because it created
> a tuning nightmare for melee hitters (which caused every 2 armed race
> to be ineffective for causing damage)
> 
> Remember, these changes would not just affect MA but also warrior, woodsman,
> thief and bard
Yet, if the races were still in the game, I don't think many people
would be considering a 3 - 4 armed race for Woodsman. To think that
it wouldn't be much of a difference to Thief or Bard. Thief as in
they need to have more damage anyway. & Bard, which it would be a
small difference, since they can only throw 1 knife at a time, and
having 1 or two extra arms to have something else to wield would
make them hit once or twice more, and adding more stats...?

-----------------

poster: Fox
subject: >>>Races.
date: Thu Nov  1 21:26:30 2001

On Thu Nov  1 21:22:50 2001 Tranquil wrote post #593:
> On Thu Nov  1 21:19:58 2001 Phire wrote post #592:
> > On Thu Nov  1 21:16:24 2001 Fox wrote post #591:
> > > At this point. The races that are basically made for MA, Mantisman(4
> > > armed creatures) were taken out of the mud, yet there are monsters
> > > in the mud still yet as well. Martial Artist's suck as it is right
> > > now, why not put Mantisman back in the game. The race fits this
> > > theme of the mud, Vinnipier was good with 3 arms, Xorn's as well. At
> > > current state, No one plays Vinnipiers or Xorn's anymore. The
> > > drasitc change made by Sigwald, dropping those races and tearing a
> > > huge whole in MA is horrid, put Mantisman back in so MA's don't suck
> > > for lower worth players such as myself.  
> > > I'm not very awake, if I made sense, fine, if not, oh well. 
> > > Simple statment: Red Dragon needs Mantismen w/ four arms, Vinnipier
> > > & Xorn w/ 3 arms put back into the game.
> > 
> > Woodsman with 3 arms ... 
> > Having more than 2 arms was removed from the game because it created
> > a tuning nightmare for melee hitters (which caused every 2 armed race
> > to be ineffective for causing damage)
> > 
> > Remember, these changes would not just affect MA but also warrior,
woodsman,
> > thief and bard
> 
> Actually, it wouldnt really make any difference to woodsman, as all
> of these races have a too-low spellmax for them to be remotely
> useful for woodsman. Not that I agree totally with Fox, but I did
> feel it was neccessary to point out that woodsmen need a good
> spellmax, whereas MA's dont.
> 
> - Tranquil
> 

So, there as, Woodsman aren't at all affected by these race
changes...unless you'd prefer to have vlow spell max, which wouldn't
make sense for a Woodsman of stature.

-----------------

poster: Phire
subject: >>>>Races.
date: Thu Nov  1 21:28:04 2001

On Thu Nov  1 21:26:30 2001 Fox wrote post #595:
> On Thu Nov  1 21:22:50 2001 Tranquil wrote post #593:
> > On Thu Nov  1 21:19:58 2001 Phire wrote post #592:
> > > On Thu Nov  1 21:16:24 2001 Fox wrote post #591:
> > > > At this point. The races that are basically made for MA, Mantisman(4
> > > > armed creatures) were taken out of the mud, yet there are monsters
> > > > in the mud still yet as well. Martial Artist's suck as it is right
> > > > now, why not put Mantisman back in the game. The race fits this
> > > > theme of the mud, Vinnipier was good with 3 arms, Xorn's as well. At
> > > > current state, No one plays Vinnipiers or Xorn's anymore. The
> > > > drasitc change made by Sigwald, dropping those races and tearing a
> > > > huge whole in MA is horrid, put Mantisman back in so MA's don't suck
> > > > for lower worth players such as myself.  
> > > > I'm not very awake, if I made sense, fine, if not, oh well. 
> > > > Simple statment: Red Dragon needs Mantismen w/ four arms, Vinnipier
> > > > & Xorn w/ 3 arms put back into the game.
> > > 
> > > Woodsman with 3 arms ... 
> > > Having more than 2 arms was removed from the game because it created
> > > a tuning nightmare for melee hitters (which caused every 2 armed race
> > > to be ineffective for causing damage)
> > > 
> > > Remember, these changes would not just affect MA but also warrior,
> woodsman,
> > > thief and bard
> > 
> > Actually, it wouldnt really make any difference to woodsman, as all
> > of these races have a too-low spellmax for them to be remotely
> > useful for woodsman. Not that I agree totally with Fox, but I did
> > feel it was neccessary to point out that woodsmen need a good
> > spellmax, whereas MA's dont.
> > 
> > - Tranquil
> > 
> 
> So, there as, Woodsman aren't at all affected by these race
> changes...unless you'd prefer to have vlow spell max, which wouldn't
> make sense for a Woodsman of stature.

It would make a difference, because that extra armo you could wield
a weapon (which gives stats, more attacks with multiweapons ...)

vinnipier woodsman can have a spell max of 95%, that isn't low in my book

-----------------

poster: Fox
subject: >>>>>Races.
date: Thu Nov  1 21:35:10 2001

On Thu Nov  1 21:28:04 2001 Phire wrote post #596:
> On Thu Nov  1 21:26:30 2001 Fox wrote post #595:
> > On Thu Nov  1 21:22:50 2001 Tranquil wrote post #593:
> > > On Thu Nov  1 21:19:58 2001 Phire wrote post #592:
> > > > On Thu Nov  1 21:16:24 2001 Fox wrote post #591:
> > > > > At this point. The races that are basically made for MA, Mantisman(4
> > > > > armed creatures) were taken out of the mud, yet there are monsters
> > > > > in the mud still yet as well. Martial Artist's suck as it is right
> > > > > now, why not put Mantisman back in the game. The race fits this
> > > > > theme of the mud, Vinnipier was good with 3 arms, Xorn's as well. At
> > > > > current state, No one plays Vinnipiers or Xorn's anymore. The
> > > > > drasitc change made by Sigwald, dropping those races and tearing a
> > > > > huge whole in MA is horrid, put Mantisman back in so MA's don't suck
> > > > > for lower worth players such as myself.  
> > > > > I'm not very awake, if I made sense, fine, if not, oh well. 
> > > > > Simple statment: Red Dragon needs Mantismen w/ four arms, Vinnipier
> > > > > & Xorn w/ 3 arms put back into the game.
> > > > 
> > > > Woodsman with 3 arms ... 
> > > > Having more than 2 arms was removed from the game because it created
> > > > a tuning nightmare for melee hitters (which caused every 2 armed race
> > > > to be ineffective for causing damage)
> > > > 
> > > > Remember, these changes would not just affect MA but also warrior,
> > woodsman,
> > > > thief and bard
> > > 
> > > Actually, it wouldnt really make any difference to woodsman, as all
> > > of these races have a too-low spellmax for them to be remotely
> > > useful for woodsman. Not that I agree totally with Fox, but I did
> > > feel it was neccessary to point out that woodsmen need a good
> > > spellmax, whereas MA's dont.
> > > 
> > > - Tranquil
> > > 
> > 
> > So, there as, Woodsman aren't at all affected by these race
> > changes...unless you'd prefer to have vlow spell max, which wouldn't
> > make sense for a Woodsman of stature.
> 
> It would make a difference, because that extra armo you could wield
> a weapon (which gives stats, more attacks with multiweapons ...)
> 
> vinnipier woodsman can have a spell max of 95%, that isn't low in my book
Ok, point proven of Vinnipier. Counter them out of the race change,
that still leaves Xorn & Mantisman, yet, both, still only applicable
for Thief, Bard, & MA. Which pushes Woodsman out of the oppurtune
for those races...

-----------------

poster: Tranquil
subject: >>>>>>Races.
date: Thu Nov  1 21:45:49 2001

> No point quoting a bazzilion posts again


Bearing in mind that vinni's higher spellmax was pointed out to me
by Phire within moments of my post, they could simply lose some
spellmax (around 20-30%) in favor of the added limb, and xprate
could be adjusted accordingly.

As for the extra hits a woodsman could do? well, this is true, they
could do more hits per round, but note that those hits will be with
a weapon that wont really do alot of damage, seeing as it will need
to be a pretty low wc, and woodsmen cannot have more than one
natures blade.

In addition to this, suggestions have already been given to one
particular wiz that tends to agree with the general consensus that
woodsman does too much damage as it is, and these suggestions could
be quite easily modified to fit the extra limb if neccessary. The
trick would be to make all of the changes at once to get it done
correctly, first time.

Also, Phire has stated that he would not do a martial artist recode
if the guild happened to need one. Some people think it does, others
think it doesnt. If eventually more people think it does and it does
get put on the operating table, I am sure there are plenty of people
with ideas for a change to the guildtree or a total recode if
neccesary.

Lastly, and this is a somewhat unrelated matter, but there are a few
people that would like a guild that could ride horses. I have one
such idea in the works at the moment, and I happen to think that if
created in conjunction with any other recodes for the fighter and
woodsman guild, we could actually have a nice, decent selection of
fighter guilds, for those of us that like being a fighter guild and
also like to earn xp, without having to rely on a batallion of party
members while doing so. Again, anything that is done needs to be
thought out -before- any changes are made, so that we can get it
right, or at least very close to right, the first time.

- Tranquil


-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>>>>Races.
date: Fri Nov  2 06:45:31 2001

as i see it, races will remain to have 2 arms and 2 arms only, as
phire already stated it was horrid to try and tune melee fighters
with multiple arms, instead of trying to change races think of ways
to up the guilds to make them not suck, without making them overly
powerful

the problem is never in the race, its in the guild tree itself, at
least hats what i think

-lu

p.s. xorn cleric all the way

-----------------

poster: Zax
subject: >>>>>>>Races.
date: Fri Nov  2 08:22:42 2001

an argument for being races back to being out of tune shouldn't be
something like "no one plays them anymore". do many people play
vampire anymore? why don't we whine for old standard stats again,
becos no one plays vampire. it would be nice to have casters with
5.5k hps again so lets bring them back!

blahblah

-----------------

poster: Coal
subject: races
date: Fri Nov  2 09:45:25 2001

Hey, I liked be a lvl 14 vampire/cleric with 1.5k hps. Vampire all
the way! Way to go zax!
-Coal

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>>>>>>Races.
date: Fri Nov  2 17:17:41 2001

hmm, vampire is a popular race again, zax..due to hits high
psell+skill max and nice int

most nethers are vamps, as are alot of druids

-lu

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: vampire
date: Fri Nov  2 17:39:11 2001

is also nice for cauldron magic

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >>>>>>>>>Races.
date: Sun Nov  4 23:53:12 2001

On Fri Nov  2 17:17:41 2001 Lu wrote post #602:
> hmm, vampire is a popular race again, zax..due to hits high
> psell+skill max and nice int
> 
> most nethers are vamps, as are alot of druids
> 
> -lu

the whole glory of the situation right now with races (and yes I
think it's more in tune than EVER in the history of this mud) is
that not ALL of the nethers, much less all the casters are drow or
vampire or some other arbitrary race, which was the situation in
olden days gone by (quickly points out that he is a nether that
isn't a vampire and operates very well indeed).

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>>>Races.
date: Mon Nov  5 16:35:27 2001

On Thu Nov  1 21:28:04 2001 Phire wrote post #596:
> On Thu Nov  1 21:26:30 2001 Fox wrote post #595:
> > On Thu Nov  1 21:22:50 2001 Tranquil wrote post #593:
> > > On Thu Nov  1 21:19:58 2001 Phire wrote post #592:
> > > > On Thu Nov  1 21:16:24 2001 Fox wrote post #591:
> > > > > At this point. The races that are basically made for MA, Mantisman(4
> > > > > armed creatures) were taken out of the mud, yet there are monsters
> > > > > in the mud still yet as well. Martial Artist's suck as it is right
> > > > > now, why not put Mantisman back in the game. The race fits this
> > > > > theme of the mud, Vinnipier was good with 3 arms, Xorn's as well. At
> > > > > current state, No one plays Vinnipiers or Xorn's anymore. The
> > > > > drasitc change made by Sigwald, dropping those races and tearing a
> > > > > huge whole in MA is horrid, put Mantisman back in so MA's don't suck
> > > > > for lower worth players such as myself.  
> > > > > I'm not very awake, if I made sense, fine, if not, oh well. 
> > > > > Simple statment: Red Dragon needs Mantismen w/ four arms, Vinnipier
> > > > > & Xorn w/ 3 arms put back into the game.
> > > > 
> > > > Woodsman with 3 arms ... 
> > > > Having more than 2 arms was removed from the game because it created
> > > > a tuning nightmare for melee hitters (which caused every 2 armed race
> > > > to be ineffective for causing damage)
> > > > 
> > > > Remember, these changes would not just affect MA but also warrior,
> > woodsman,
> > > > thief and bard
> > > 
> > > Actually, it wouldnt really make any difference to woodsman, as all
> > > of these races have a too-low spellmax for them to be remotely
> > > useful for woodsman. Not that I agree totally with Fox, but I did
> > > feel it was neccessary to point out that woodsmen need a good
> > > spellmax, whereas MA's dont.
> > > 
> > > - Tranquil
> > > 
> > 
> > So, there as, Woodsman aren't at all affected by these race
> > changes...unless you'd prefer to have vlow spell max, which wouldn't
> > make sense for a Woodsman of stature.
> 
> It would make a difference, because that extra armo you could wield
> a weapon (which gives stats, more attacks with multiweapons ...)
> 
> vinnipier woodsman can have a spell max of 95%, that isn't low in my book
what if ya just changed xorn?
or change vinnipier stats to acomadate what it used to do or what it
would be to make it tuned, and compeltly new race wiht the same
stats as vinnipier.
It just seemes to me that it is possible to do this multi race thing
again if we just take the time to make changes as questions occur.

-----------------

poster: Miciaih
subject: michigan meeting
date: Mon Nov  5 19:16:37 2001

for those of us who where going to meet up, we are going to have to
hold back on the date fora  bit. by car has been gang rapped by
demons(front end went out) i will get back to you all when my car is
peachy keen

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: xp whore
date: Mon Nov 12 00:38:12 2001

looking for a low lvl person 15-25 to go
druid with herb/fire skills 80%+  and gian touch, food  60%+
and be drug around by me and my cauldron. if intersted 
mudmail me with when you play etc.

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Eponine
subject: Unofficial contest
date: Tue Nov 13 21:00:12 2001

read my finger info for details.

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: dram
date: Wed Nov 14 03:21:54 2001

umm last I checked the whole point of the news was
to pass on our feedback to the wizzes etc, am I to infer you
all just want to be mud mailed then

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Dram
subject: >dram
date: Wed Nov 14 04:57:07 2001

No, I'm just saying i don't take time to find posts in news when im
looking for things to fix, i dont have the time. All my mail are
guild ideas people send me so its easier to sort. If you have any
serious ideas, i prolly wont hear about them if you dont mail them
to me.

Dram

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: >dram
date: Wed Nov 14 18:42:03 2001

On Wed Nov 14 03:21:54 2001 Jaws wrote post #609:
> umm last I checked the whole point of the news was
> to pass on our feedback to the wizzes etc, am I to infer you
> all just want to be mud mailed then
> 
> Jaws

Btw, don't bother mailing me stuff that belongs in ideas or the bug tracking
system. Dram might have requested you mail him stuff, that didn't mean mail
admin.

Khosan

-----------------

poster: Amestyn
subject: peeps
date: Thu Nov 15 08:45:21 2001

I find it not so cool that when there was only one healer with
revive on tonight, he told us to tithe b4 revive. So i tithed 5k
which seemd just fine to me and usually has been ok when I died
before. This healer then said I won't revive for 5k and didn't give
me my money back and left me in hell. Find that pretty shitty.

-Amestyn

PS o and it was Litho:)

-----------------

poster: Bigglesworth
subject: peeps
date: Thu Nov 15 11:43:12 2001

Maybe you should have put that post in the flame group, amestyn. Oh wait, 
we don't have a flame group anymore. damn. Besides, its only 5k..oh
wait, we can't
make that up in a few minutes..

-----------------

poster: Blackthorne
subject: >peeps
date: Thu Nov 15 11:44:51 2001

Well, clerics aren't meant to be jackasses...That is an earned right.

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: SOAD
date: Thu Nov 15 17:51:32 2001

i was readign an interview with serj, from SOAD, and the interviewer
mentioned that one of the songs on the latest album(toxicity)
sympathised with charles manson, didnt mention which track tho

I went through the lyrics and nothing sticks out as a mansion
sympathiser, so i was wondering if anyone else knew which track the
interviewer was referring to, so i can end my sleepless nights

-lu

-----------------

poster: Litho
subject: >peeps
date: Thu Nov 15 17:59:52 2001

On Thu Nov 15 08:45:21 2001 Amestyn wrote post #612:
> I find it not so cool that when there was only one healer with
> revive on tonight, he told us to tithe b4 revive. So i tithed 5k
> which seemd just fine to me and usually has been ok when I died
> before. This healer then said I won't revive for 5k and didn't give
> me my money back and left me in hell. Find that pretty shitty.
> 
> -Amestyn
> 
> PS o and it was Litho:)
think TICKING SOON
I had amestyn on ignore, so i didnt see her tithes, also, know whats
going on between the person(s) dead before assuming

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >peeps
date: Fri Nov 16 01:23:14 2001

On Thu Nov 15 11:43:12 2001 Bigglesworth wrote post #613:
> Maybe you should have put that post in the flame group, amestyn. Oh wait, 
> we don't have a flame group anymore. damn. Besides, its only 5k..oh
> wait, we can't
> make that up in a few minutes..

It's a matter of principle.

If a healer is going to demand a tithe, then not come thru after
you've paid (yes, tithes are a courtesy too), then that healer
should be strung up by the balls (or nipples) and drawn and
quartered.

Although, everybody should know better than to trust Hexus.

-WC

-----------------

poster: Litho
subject: >>peeps
date: Fri Nov 16 02:28:14 2001

On Fri Nov 16 01:23:14 2001 Wildchild wrote post #617:
> On Thu Nov 15 11:43:12 2001 Bigglesworth wrote post #613:
> > Maybe you should have put that post in the flame group, amestyn. Oh wait, 
> > we don't have a flame group anymore. damn. Besides, its only 5k..oh
> > wait, we can't
> > make that up in a few minutes..
> 
> It's a matter of principle.
> 
> If a healer is going to demand a tithe, then not come thru after
> you've paid (yes, tithes are a courtesy too), then that healer
> should be strung up by the balls (or nipples) and drawn and
> quartered.
> 
> Although, everybody should know better than to trust Hexus.
> 
> -WC
think TICKING SOON
Amestyn was on ignore, i unignored her, read this post, and revived
her,, egt your facts straight, WC

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >>>peeps
date: Fri Nov 16 02:29:21 2001

On Fri Nov 16 02:28:14 2001 Litho wrote post #618:
> On Fri Nov 16 01:23:14 2001 Wildchild wrote post #617:
> > On Thu Nov 15 11:43:12 2001 Bigglesworth wrote post #613:
> > > Maybe you should have put that post in the flame group, amestyn. Oh
wait, 
> > > we don't have a flame group anymore. damn. Besides, its only 5k..oh
> > > wait, we can't
> > > make that up in a few minutes..
> > 
> > It's a matter of principle.
> > 
> > If a healer is going to demand a tithe, then not come thru after
> > you've paid (yes, tithes are a courtesy too), then that healer
> > should be strung up by the balls (or nipples) and drawn and
> > quartered.
> > 
> > Although, everybody should know better than to trust Hexus.
> > 
> > -WC
> think TICKING SOON
> Amestyn was on ignore, i unignored her, read this post, and revived
> her,, egt your facts straight, WC

Funny, it was Amestyn who didn't state in the first place that she
(he, it, whatever) was being ignored.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

You're still not trustworthy.

-WC

-----------------

poster: Malice
subject: Members wanted...
date: Fri Nov 16 04:27:31 2001

Since people who aren't in clans told me
they can't read where I originally posted
this - here it is again....
Clan Tempest is looking for peoples.
Here's the requirements:
1. Be able to put up with 2 grumpy old men and
   one bitch with permanent pms
2. Play a lot
3. Not a reinc bunny
4. Eq party worth preferably
If interested, mail myself, nax or malifix

-----------------

poster: Mirrim
subject: >>>>peeps
date: Fri Nov 16 11:10:38 2001

On Fri Nov 16 02:29:21 2001 Wildchild wrote post #619:
> On Fri Nov 16 02:28:14 2001 Litho wrote post #618:
> > On Fri Nov 16 01:23:14 2001 Wildchild wrote post #617:
> > > On Thu Nov 15 11:43:12 2001 Bigglesworth wrote post #613:
> > > > Maybe you should have put that post in the flame group, amestyn. Oh
> wait, 
> > > > we don't have a flame group anymore. damn. Besides, its only 5k..oh
> > > > wait, we can't
> > > > make that up in a few minutes..
> > > 
> > > It's a matter of principle.
> > > 
> > > If a healer is going to demand a tithe, then not come thru after
> > > you've paid (yes, tithes are a courtesy too), then that healer
> > > should be strung up by the balls (or nipples) and drawn and
> > > quartered.
> > > 
> > > Although, everybody should know better than to trust Hexus.
> > > 
> > > -WC
> > think TICKING SOON
> > Amestyn was on ignore, i unignored her, read this post, and revived
> > her,, egt your facts straight, WC
> 
> Funny, it was Amestyn who didn't state in the first place that she
> (he, it, whatever) was being ignored.
> 
> SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
> 
> You're still not trustworthy.
> 
> -WC
He's earned this person's trust.

-----------------

poster: Tektor
subject: Cute single Female
date: Sun Nov 18 21:46:22 2001

Cute single female looking to be married send mail why you think
your the man for this lovley Gargoyle.

-----------------

poster: Trigon
subject: >Cute single Female
date: Sun Nov 18 21:47:40 2001

21:44:23: Tektor tells you: Will you marry me? :P
You tell Tektor : I've seen cuter things come out of my dogs butt
You give Tektor your ok on hog fecies face.
Please, let's not let him breed.
Muah

-----------------

poster: Tektor
subject: >>Cute single Female
date: Sun Nov 18 21:48:53 2001

On Sun Nov 18 21:47:40 2001 Trigon wrote post #623:
> 21:44:23: Tektor tells you: Will you marry me? :P
> You tell Tektor : I've seen cuter things come out of my dogs butt
> You give Tektor your ok on hog fecies face.
> Please, let's not let him breed.
> Muah
You tell Trigon : You must be looking in a mirror then sir please move along

And thats 'HER' thank you!

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >>>Cute single Female
date: Mon Nov 19 03:05:34 2001

Tektor is a female?

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>Cute single Female
date: Mon Nov 19 04:15:34 2001

just when i thought oyu couldnt get any worse

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: >>>>Cute single Female
date: Mon Nov 19 22:11:40 2001

some people have major issues
Q
*8



-----------------

poster: Tektor
subject: Marriage
date: Tue Nov 20 23:46:51 2001

Due to lack of interest I'm not looking for a husband for now. Tho I
still have a few  people in mind.

-----------------

poster: Blackthorne
subject: >Marriage
date: Wed Nov 21 02:57:54 2001

On Tue Nov 20 23:46:51 2001 Tektor wrote post #628:
> Due to lack of interest I'm not looking for a husband for now. Tho I
> still have a few  people in mind.
Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >Marriage
date: Wed Nov 21 03:13:19 2001

On Tue Nov 20 23:46:51 2001 Tektor wrote post #628:
> Due to lack of interest I'm not looking for a husband for now. Tho I
> still have a few  people in mind.
i can i be your wife again?

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>Marriage
date: Wed Nov 21 07:49:14 2001

why is this in news?

-----------------

poster: Sumerion
subject: Fandon
date: Sun Nov 25 00:27:37 2001

ok...don't lend out eq to this guy u won't get it back...dojjan
lended out his eq and won't get it back...and when we ask him he
just quits or put's u on ignore.....rather put him on ignore:)

-----------------

poster: Trigon
subject: When nerds get together
date: Sun Nov 25 20:00:06 2001

Had a lan party at a friends house, we took pictures.
www.pugzworld.com/lannight
fun stuff, I went to bed at 7:15 in the morning, etc etc
Trigon likes to frag 

-----------------

poster: Trigon
subject: >When nerds get together
date: Sun Nov 25 20:02:30 2001

On Sun Nov 25 20:00:06 2001 Trigon wrote post #633:
> Had a lan party at a friends house, we took pictures.
> www.pugzworld.com/lannight
> fun stuff, I went to bed at 7:15 in the morning, etc etc
> Trigon likes to frag 
Forgot to mention, I'm the blondish kid referred to as Brian or
Whitechocolate or something such as that, and I'm wearing my rockon
twinkies shirt.
quake quake quake quake quake

-----------------

poster: Zax
subject: The Tyranny of Nicespeak
date: Mon Nov 26 13:11:07 2001

The New Statesman Essay - The Tyranny of Nicespeak

Deborah Cameron Monday 5th November 2001

In 1990 I returned to Britain after two years abroad, and found that
I no longer spoke the language. My difficulty was not with ordinary
conversation, but with public discourse. The rules had changed, and
I could not get the hang of them. I was baffled when a worker at a
fast-food outlet handed me a solitary carton of milk with a cheery:
"Enjoy your meal!" I was unsure how to respond when bank tellers or
supermarket checkout staff addressed me by name, as though I were an
intimate friend. I pored uncomprehendingly over the "charters" that
came through my letterbox, pledging the council, the Inland Revenue
and the local GP surgery to the highest standards of "customer
care". It was the same at work. My academic colleagues had adopted
new ways of using English, and while I understood the words
themselves, I had no idea what real-world entities they referred to.
What, for instance, was the mysterious "quality" that we discussed
at every meeting? What did people mean when they spoke earnestly
about "aims and objectives" and "learning outcomes"? I was equally
puzzled when I read the "mission statement" a committee had put
together the previous year. This struck me as a long and convoluted
statement of the obvious: we educated undergraduates, and we strove
to do this well. Why was that a "mission", and who needed to have it
spelt out?

Then there were the instructions on how to answer the phone: "X
Institute of Higher Education, Deborah Cameron speaking." At least
we were not required to append chirpily: "How may I help you?'' But
it seemed strange that instructions had been issued at all, and
stranger still that they were generally obeyed. Only a few years
before, administrators who took it upon themselves to prescribe a
standard phone salutation to academics would have been derided as
ignorant petty tyrants.

The changes I was so conscious of had actually begun some time
before I went away. I had dismissed them as passing fads. I
returned, however, to what had become a revolution in public
language. The likes of my colleagues no longer thought of this new
tongue as an alien one, into which they translated thoughts
originally composed in a more familiar idiom. They had become native
speakers. Today, this language pervades both the public and private
sectors, and much of the working population is fluent in it. We may
joke (as Scott Adams, the creator of the Dilbert cartoons, does)
about the cliched absurdity of mission statements and standardised
phone greetings, but we find it hard to remember a time when these
were not cliches - when we reacted to them with genuine
incomprehension, and sometimes with genuine outrage.

Cultural critics had little to say about the revolution. Many were
caught up in a far noisier debate, as advocates or opponents of
"political correctness". Arguments raged about the linguistic
practices of a radical fringe; Orwell's Newspeak was invoked to
portray feminist councillors and anti-racist teachers as the new
thought police. Meanwhile, with far less fanfare (and almost no
sustained critical analysis), mainstream public English suffered a
corporate takeover.

I use the phrase "corporate takeover" because the new public
language was shaped by ideas and practices that originated in the
business world. The "mission statement" - and its shorter, pithier
relative the "vision statement" - was popularised by management
gurus such as Tom Peters, who noted that successful or "excellent"
companies had a clear definition of their core goals and values,
which they communicated explicitly to every employee. Most such
statements do not refer explicitly to the real core goal of any
capitalist enterprise: "Our mission is to make the largest possible
profit for our shareholders." Nor, on the whole, do they allude
directly to whatever it is that the company actually does. The
journalist Dorothy Grace-Elder once reported on a visit to a Glasgow
sanitary-ware factory, during which the workers were asked if they
knew the company's mission; after a moment of puzzled silence, one
finally replied: "Wur mission's tae make lavvies." Old-style
manufacturing industries did not need mission statements. The
mission statement belongs to an era in which the main purpose of
many companies is not making but branding things; the language in
which a company represents itself to the world is part of its
brand-image. 

As part of the marketising process that began during the Thatcher
era and has continued to the present day, British public sector
institutions were also encouraged to view themselves as brands, and
to use language similarly, for purposes of self-promotion rather
than public information. Nobody needs to be told what universities,
schools and hospitals do, but they all have mission and vision
statements now, most of them comprising platitudes such as "serving
the community" and "pursuing excellence". These slogans are as
meaningless as the old mottos on schoolchildren's blazers: "Pietas"
or "Manners Makyth Man". That they are written in modern English
only emphasises their vacuity: as a friend of mine observed when
asked to speak at a conference on "pursuing excellence in facilities
management": "Who the hell would pursue second-rateness?"

The branding of language does not stop with the mission statement.
One of the things I found most disconcerting on my return home was
the proliferation of formulaic and scripted exchanges in the service
industries - the standard phone salutations delivered with standard
perky intonation; the replacement of traditional British courtesies
by Americanisms such as "How may I help you?"; the exhortations to
"Enjoy your meal" (uttered whether or not they made sense in a given
context). This way of speaking did not evolve naturally; it
reflected the corporation's growing desire to regulate and control
the language that its representatives used. The idea was to
subordinate the personality of the individual speaker to a centrally
designed corporate voice. Only if everyone in an organisation said
the same thing in the same way could customers receive what one
company's how-to-answer-the-phone manual called "a consistent
experience of the brand".

An extreme instance made news earlier this year: a call-centre in
Bangalore, serving US customers, required its employees to conceal
their "offshore" location by impersonating Americans. Operators not
only perfected their Midwestern accents; they invented American
names, and personal histories to go with them, and watched episodes
of Friends to keep their colloquialisms current. But you don't have
to go to India to find workers adopting prescribed forms of language
at odds both with their ordinary ways of speaking and with what they
think of as their "real" identities or personalities. All over
Britain, in call-centres and supermarkets, airlines and insurance
companies, workers are being instructed in every nuance of verbal
performance: what words to say, where to pause, what emotions to
project using pitch, stress and tone. In call-centres, hi-tech
surveillance makes it possible to enforce these demands
consistently. In supermarkets, employees know that the customer they
fail to greet with the prescribed open gaze and ready smile could be
a "mystery shopper" employed by the company to make spot checks on
their customer service skills. 

The commonest instruction given to service workers is: "Smile when
you say that." Let customers know what a great company you work for,
and how happy you are to be serving them on its behalf. For public
sector professionals, the pressure takes a different form. Despite
the telephone answering instructions I quoted, professionals do not
usually have to perform someone else's script. Instead, they have to
produce their own propaganda, using a language imposed from above by
the government agencies that allocate their funds. 

This was what was going on in the discussions of "quality" that
mystified me in 1990. The government, trying to improve the
accountability of publicly funded bodies, had set up agencies to
measure the quality of university teaching. What was evaluated,
however, was not what happened in lecture halls, labs and seminar
rooms. Primarily, it was (and still is) a linguistic artefact: the
"self-assessment document" in which departments define their mission
and evaluate the quality of the education they provide. In theory,
this is an exercise in critical self-reflection; in practice,
departments are playing a zero-sum game, competing with others for
finite and inadequate resources. If they do not claim to be
"excellent", they will inevitably come out losers. That is why
British academics, just like managers in corporations, have become
fluent in promotional jargon, accentuating the positive even if that
means being economical with the truth.

Self-assessment documents do not say, for instance, that large
classes and overdependence on casualised teaching staff are
compromising standards. Instead, they say things like: "The
challenge of teaching larger classes has been addressed through
rolling programmes of staff development; standards are monitored
through robust quality assurance procedures, in the context of an
institution-wide commitment to continuous improvement." This is an
invented example, but I assure you that it is not (quite) a parody.
Like the political discourse criticised by Orwell in "Politics and
the English Language", it takes a series of buzz-phrases ("the
challenge of X". "rolling programme", "staff development", "quality
assurance", "continuous improvement") and uses the verbal glue of
vagueness and abstraction ("has been addressed", "in the context
of") to stick them together in the manner of a prefabricated hen
house. The resulting sentence contains hardly any information, but
that is not its point. The point is to demonstrate to the Quality
Assurance Agency that the university speaks the approved
managerialist language, which in turn signifies its commitment to
the values embodied in that language. The English literature scholar
Peter Womack has likened academics writing this sort of prose to
Winston Smith in 1984, composing his features into the required
"expression of quiet optimism" as he turns to face the telescreen.

Managing language is a booming business, supporting legions of
consultants whose expertise may consist of having once read a book
about transactional analysis or neurolinguistic programming. One big
corporation advertises that its employees are trained in "expanded
listening": they have learnt that listening is a "four-stage
process" and that most people listen at a "25 per cent level of
efficiency". (So far as I know, no reputable psycholinguistic
research supports either claim.) The New York Times recently
reported that computer help-desk workers are being trained to
diagnose not the technical problem a caller wants help with, but the
caller's personality type. If the worker uses a language (pseudo-)
scientifically designed for the caller's personality, the
interaction will be judged successful, whether or not the computer
problem is solved. 

In politics, too, there is a growing faith in the power of managed
language to transform less tractable realities. In the spring of
1999, New York police officers shot and killed an unarmed Gambian
named Amadou Diallo; they claimed to have mistaken him for a
dangerous armed criminal. More than 1,000 people were arrested in
the protests that ensued. Mayor Rudolph Giuliani and his police
chief, Howard Safir, responded by handing out pocket-sized cards
that reminded police officers to speak politely to members of the
public: to address them as "sir" and "ma'am", and say "good
morning", "please" and "thank you". Faced with a serious political
problem, Giuliani - not, as we have seen in recent weeks, a stupid
or insensitive man - resorted to the premise of corporate customer
care: say the right words, speak nicely and all will be forgiven.

Such examples suggest that we need to move beyond George Orwell's
mid-20th-century analysis of what ails our public language. Orwell's
main concern was the ideologically motivated use of words to conceal
the truth; the remedy he proposed was plain English, a prose style
as clear and transparent as glass. The problem with today's public
language, however, is not so much that it represents reality
inaccurately or dishonestly, but that it does not set out to be a
representation of anything at all. When organisations proclaim they
are "pursuing excellence", or when they write scripts for their
employees to parrot, they want us not to believe the words, but to
applaud the sentiments behind them. Their claims are not primarily
"veracity claims" ("what I am telling you is a fact"), but
"sincerity claims" ("what I am telling you comes from the heart").

Orwell's antidote to Newspeak - plain English - was intended to
expose statements of dubious veracity: he reasoned that if we
stripped away the obfuscation and understood what was being
asserted, we would expose the lies. But dubious claims of sincerity
cannot be exposed in the same way. "Nicespeak" is dishonest in a
different way from Newspeak, and plain English is less effective as
a critical response to it. Indeed, Orwell's prescription has been
co-opted by the other side: no one knows better than a corporate
PR-person or political spin-doctor the value of plain language for
creating ersatz intimacy and simulating sincere concern. 

If fake sincerity does not respond to the bracing tonic of Orwellian
plainness, perhaps we should try the homeopathic approach: irony.
This is the technique of anti-corporate "culture jammers": take our
adversaries' language and turn it against them by inflecting it with
a different or opposite meaning. ("Just Do It," the anti-sweatshop
campaigners tell Nike - meaning: "Pay your workers a living wage.")
Admittedly, the ironist has a challenging task in a world where a
notice can announce in all seriousness: "In order to better serve
you, we are closed this afternoon." But if our mission is to expose
the emptiness behind the painted smile of Nicespeak, irony and
satire may be our most effective weapons: suitably postmodern
remedies for a postmodern linguistic disease.

Deborah Cameron is professor of languages at the Institute of
Education, University of London, and the author of Good to Talk:
living and working in a communication culture (Sage, £16.99) 


-----------------

poster: Bahgtru
subject: It's a Shame, but...
date: Mon Nov 26 14:15:16 2001

My life is kinda getting real busy, as well as a few other things
(eg the loss of my grandfather) so I've decided (it was a tough
call) to hang up my boots here.

I _might_ be on every now and then to check on things, but it won't
be for too long.

Keep mudding and watching the skies (and your backs, because Grasfer's here)

- Bag o' leaving poop

-----------------

poster: Santiago
subject: Re: The Tyranny of Nicespea
date: Mon Nov 26 19:29:12 2001

This essay is awsome, thank you for posting it Zax, it's so
unfortunatly true....

-----------------

poster: Chewba
subject: >The Tyranny of Nicespeak
date: Tue Nov 27 01:05:06 2001

On Mon Nov 26 13:11:07 2001 Zax wrote post #635:
> The New Statesman Essay - The Tyranny of Nicespeak
> 
> Deborah Cameron Monday 5th November 2001
> 
> In 1990 I returned to Britain after two years abroad, and found that
> I no longer spoke the language. My difficulty was not with ordinary
> conversation, but with public discourse. The rules had changed, and
> I could not get the hang of them. I was baffled when a worker at a
> fast-food outlet handed me a solitary carton of milk with a cheery:
> "Enjoy your meal!" I was unsure how to respond when bank tellers or
> supermarket checkout staff addressed me by name, as though I were an
> intimate friend. I pored uncomprehendingly over the "charters" that
> came through my letterbox, pledging the council, the Inland Revenue
> and the local GP surgery to the highest standards of "customer
> care". It was the same at work. My academic colleagues had adopted
> new ways of using English, and while I understood the words
> themselves, I had no idea what real-world entities they referred to.
> What, for instance, was the mysterious "quality" that we discussed
> at every meeting? What did people mean when they spoke earnestly
> about "aims and objectives" and "learning outcomes"? I was equally
> puzzled when I read the "mission statement" a committee had put
> together the previous year. This struck me as a long and convoluted
> statement of the obvious: we educated undergraduates, and we strove
> to do this well. Why was that a "mission", and who needed to have it
> spelt out?
> 
> Then there were the instructions on how to answer the phone: "X
> Institute of Higher Education, Deborah Cameron speaking." At least
> we were not required to append chirpily: "How may I help you?'' But
> it seemed strange that instructions had been issued at all, and
> stranger still that they were generally obeyed. Only a few years
> before, administrators who took it upon themselves to prescribe a
> standard phone salutation to academics would have been derided as
> ignorant petty tyrants.
> 
> The changes I was so conscious of had actually begun some time
> before I went away. I had dismissed them as passing fads. I
> returned, however, to what had become a revolution in public
> language. The likes of my colleagues no longer thought of this new
> tongue as an alien one, into which they translated thoughts
> originally composed in a more familiar idiom. They had become native
> speakers. Today, this language pervades both the public and private
> sectors, and much of the working population is fluent in it. We may
> joke (as Scott Adams, the creator of the Dilbert cartoons, does)
> about the cliched absurdity of mission statements and standardised
> phone greetings, but we find it hard to remember a time when these
> were not cliches - when we reacted to them with genuine
> incomprehension, and sometimes with genuine outrage.
> 
> Cultural critics had little to say about the revolution. Many were
> caught up in a far noisier debate, as advocates or opponents of
> "political correctness". Arguments raged about the linguistic
> practices of a radical fringe; Orwell's Newspeak was invoked to
> portray feminist councillors and anti-racist teachers as the new
> thought police. Meanwhile, with far less fanfare (and almost no
> sustained critical analysis), mainstream public English suffered a
> corporate takeover.
> 
> I use the phrase "corporate takeover" because the new public
> language was shaped by ideas and practices that originated in the
> business world. The "mission statement" - and its shorter, pithier
> relative the "vision statement" - was popularised by management
> gurus such as Tom Peters, who noted that successful or "excellent"
> companies had a clear definition of their core goals and values,
> which they communicated explicitly to every employee. Most such
> statements do not refer explicitly to the real core goal of any
> capitalist enterprise: "Our mission is to make the largest possible
> profit for our shareholders." Nor, on the whole, do they allude
> directly to whatever it is that the company actually does. The
> journalist Dorothy Grace-Elder once reported on a visit to a Glasgow
> sanitary-ware factory, during which the workers were asked if they
> knew the company's mission; after a moment of puzzled silence, one
> finally replied: "Wur mission's tae make lavvies." Old-style
> manufacturing industries did not need mission statements. The
> mission statement belongs to an era in which the main purpose of
> many companies is not making but branding things; the language in
> which a company represents itself to the world is part of its
> brand-image. 
> 
> As part of the marketising process that began during the Thatcher
> era and has continued to the present day, British public sector
> institutions were also encouraged to view themselves as brands, and
> to use language similarly, for purposes of self-promotion rather
> than public information. Nobody needs to be told what universities,
> schools and hospitals do, but they all have mission and vision
> statements now, most of them comprising platitudes such as "serving
> the community" and "pursuing excellence". These slogans are as
> meaningless as the old mottos on schoolchildren's blazers: "Pietas"
> or "Manners Makyth Man". That they are written in modern English
> only emphasises their vacuity: as a friend of mine observed when
> asked to speak at a conference on "pursuing excellence in facilities
> management": "Who the hell would pursue second-rateness?"
> 
> The branding of language does not stop with the mission statement.
> One of the things I found most disconcerting on my return home was
> the proliferation of formulaic and scripted exchanges in the service
> industries - the standard phone salutations delivered with standard
> perky intonation; the replacement of traditional British courtesies
> by Americanisms such as "How may I help you?"; the exhortations to
> "Enjoy your meal" (uttered whether or not they made sense in a given
> context). This way of speaking did not evolve naturally; it
> reflected the corporation's growing desire to regulate and control
> the language that its representatives used. The idea was to
> subordinate the personality of the individual speaker to a centrally
> designed corporate voice. Only if everyone in an organisation said
> the same thing in the same way could customers receive what one
> company's how-to-answer-the-phone manual called "a consistent
> experience of the brand".
> 
> An extreme instance made news earlier this year: a call-centre in
> Bangalore, serving US customers, required its employees to conceal
> their "offshore" location by impersonating Americans. Operators not
> only perfected their Midwestern accents; they invented American
> names, and personal histories to go with them, and watched episodes
> of Friends to keep their colloquialisms current. But you don't have
> to go to India to find workers adopting prescribed forms of language
> at odds both with their ordinary ways of speaking and with what they
> think of as their "real" identities or personalities. All over
> Britain, in call-centres and supermarkets, airlines and insurance
> companies, workers are being instructed in every nuance of verbal
> performance: what words to say, where to pause, what emotions to
> project using pitch, stress and tone. In call-centres, hi-tech
> surveillance makes it possible to enforce these demands
> consistently. In supermarkets, employees know that the customer they
> fail to greet with the prescribed open gaze and ready smile could be
> a "mystery shopper" employed by the company to make spot checks on
> their customer service skills. 
> 
> The commonest instruction given to service workers is: "Smile when
> you say that." Let customers know what a great company you work for,
> and how happy you are to be serving them on its behalf. For public
> sector professionals, the pressure takes a different form. Despite
> the telephone answering instructions I quoted, professionals do not
> usually have to perform someone else's script. Instead, they have to
> produce their own propaganda, using a language imposed from above by
> the government agencies that allocate their funds. 
> 
> This was what was going on in the discussions of "quality" that
> mystified me in 1990. The government, trying to improve the
> accountability of publicly funded bodies, had set up agencies to
> measure the quality of university teaching. What was evaluated,
> however, was not what happened in lecture halls, labs and seminar
> rooms. Primarily, it was (and still is) a linguistic artefact: the
> "self-assessment document" in which departments define their mission
> and evaluate the quality of the education they provide. In theory,
> this is an exercise in critical self-reflection; in practice,
> departments are playing a zero-sum game, competing with others for
> finite and inadequate resources. If they do not claim to be
> "excellent", they will inevitably come out losers. That is why
> British academics, just like managers in corporations, have become
> fluent in promotional jargon, accentuating the positive even if that
> means being economical with the truth.
> 
> Self-assessment documents do not say, for instance, that large
> classes and overdependence on casualised teaching staff are
> compromising standards. Instead, they say things like: "The
> challenge of teaching larger classes has been addressed through
> rolling programmes of staff development; standards are monitored
> through robust quality assurance procedures, in the context of an
> institution-wide commitment to continuous improvement." This is an
> invented example, but I assure you that it is not (quite) a parody.
> Like the political discourse criticised by Orwell in "Politics and
> the English Language", it takes a series of buzz-phrases ("the
> challenge of X". "rolling programme", "staff development", "quality
> assurance", "continuous improvement") and uses the verbal glue of
> vagueness and abstraction ("has been addressed", "in the context
> of") to stick them together in the manner of a prefabricated hen
> house. The resulting sentence contains hardly any information, but
> that is not its point. The point is to demonstrate to the Quality
> Assurance Agency that the university speaks the approved
> managerialist language, which in turn signifies its commitment to
> the values embodied in that language. The English literature scholar
> Peter Womack has likened academics writing this sort of prose to
> Winston Smith in 1984, composing his features into the required
> "expression of quiet optimism" as he turns to face the telescreen.
> 
> Managing language is a booming business, supporting legions of
> consultants whose expertise may consist of having once read a book
> about transactional analysis or neurolinguistic programming. One big
> corporation advertises that its employees are trained in "expanded
> listening": they have learnt that listening is a "four-stage
> process" and that most people listen at a "25 per cent level of
> efficiency". (So far as I know, no reputable psycholinguistic
> research supports either claim.) The New York Times recently
> reported that computer help-desk workers are being trained to
> diagnose not the technical problem a caller wants help with, but the
> caller's personality type. If the worker uses a language (pseudo-)
> scientifically designed for the caller's personality, the
> interaction will be judged successful, whether or not the computer
> problem is solved. 
> 
> In politics, too, there is a growing faith in the power of managed
> language to transform less tractable realities. In the spring of
> 1999, New York police officers shot and killed an unarmed Gambian
> named Amadou Diallo; they claimed to have mistaken him for a
> dangerous armed criminal. More than 1,000 people were arrested in
> the protests that ensued. Mayor Rudolph Giuliani and his police
> chief, Howard Safir, responded by handing out pocket-sized cards
> that reminded police officers to speak politely to members of the
> public: to address them as "sir" and "ma'am", and say "good
> morning", "please" and "thank you". Faced with a serious political
> problem, Giuliani - not, as we have seen in recent weeks, a stupid
> or insensitive man - resorted to the premise of corporate customer
> care: say the right words, speak nicely and all will be forgiven.
> 
> Such examples suggest that we need to move beyond George Orwell's
> mid-20th-century analysis of what ails our public language. Orwell's
> main concern was the ideologically motivated use of words to conceal
> the truth; the remedy he proposed was plain English, a prose style
> as clear and transparent as glass. The problem with today's public
> language, however, is not so much that it represents reality
> inaccurately or dishonestly, but that it does not set out to be a
> representation of anything at all. When organisations proclaim they
> are "pursuing excellence", or when they write scripts for their
> employees to parrot, they want us not to believe the words, but to
> applaud the sentiments behind them. Their claims are not primarily
> "veracity claims" ("what I am telling you is a fact"), but
> "sincerity claims" ("what I am telling you comes from the heart").
> 
> Orwell's antidote to Newspeak - plain English - was intended to
> expose statements of dubious veracity: he reasoned that if we
> stripped away the obfuscation and understood what was being
> asserted, we would expose the lies. But dubious claims of sincerity
> cannot be exposed in the same way. "Nicespeak" is dishonest in a
> different way from Newspeak, and plain English is less effective as
> a critical response to it. Indeed, Orwell's prescription has been
> co-opted by the other side: no one knows better than a corporate
> PR-person or political spin-doctor the value of plain language for
> creating ersatz intimacy and simulating sincere concern. 
> 
> If fake sincerity does not respond to the bracing tonic of Orwellian
> plainness, perhaps we should try the homeopathic approach: irony.
> This is the technique of anti-corporate "culture jammers": take our
> adversaries' language and turn it against them by inflecting it with
> a different or opposite meaning. ("Just Do It," the anti-sweatshop
> campaigners tell Nike - meaning: "Pay your workers a living wage.")
> Admittedly, the ironist has a challenging task in a world where a
> notice can announce in all seriousness: "In order to better serve
> you, we are closed this afternoon." But if our mission is to expose
> the emptiness behind the painted smile of Nicespeak, irony and
> satire may be our most effective weapons: suitably postmodern
> remedies for a postmodern linguistic disease.
> 
> Deborah Cameron is professor of languages at the Institute of
> Education, University of London, and the author of Good to Talk:
> living and working in a communication culture (Sage, £16.99) 
> 
Wow as a cynical brit only 2 phrases come to mind.

friends add zax (probably to politely ignore later).

And
Have a nice Day.

-----------------

poster: Einar
subject: Old Music
date: Tue Nov 27 07:58:14 2001

Does anyone have the old music from the old rd website?
If so, could you please send it to me?
That music rocked btw, just replay it over, and over, and over, and
over, and...

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: >Old Music
date: Tue Nov 27 13:18:50 2001

On Tue Nov 27 07:58:14 2001 Einar wrote post #639:
> Does anyone have the old music from the old rd website?
> If so, could you please send it to me?
> That music rocked btw, just replay it over, and over, and over, and
> over, and...

What music, there never was any music on our website?

Khosan

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>Old Music
date: Tue Nov 27 15:09:32 2001

On Tue Nov 27 13:18:50 2001 Khosan wrote post #640:
> On Tue Nov 27 07:58:14 2001 Einar wrote post #639:
> > Does anyone have the old music from the old rd website?
> > If so, could you please send it to me?
> > That music rocked btw, just replay it over, and over, and over, and
> > over, and...
> 
> What music, there never was any music on our website?
> 
> Khosan
didnt darkstaff at one point put up some music to be downloaded?

-----------------

poster: Bahgtru
subject: My "Retirement"
date: Tue Nov 27 15:29:25 2001

I'd like to apologise on behalf of my brother for that last post. He
managed to get in through the autologin in zMud, and posted this,
left my clan, etc, etc.

Anyway, I'm not retiring

Just thought I'd let you know, I'm still here (in case you wonder)

- Bag o' returned poop

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >My "Retirement"
date: Tue Nov 27 15:33:14 2001

On Tue Nov 27 15:29:25 2001 Bahgtru wrote post #642:
> I'd like to apologise on behalf of my brother for that last post. He
> managed to get in through the autologin in zMud, and posted this,
> left my clan, etc, etc.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not retiring
> 
> Just thought I'd let you know, I'm still here (in case you wonder)
> 
> - Bag o' returned poop
woudl be a good idea to _not_ store your password 
in your client.  Bad things happen when people start
donig that.

-----------------

poster: Blaze
subject: Bahgtru's Retirement
date: Tue Nov 27 15:35:24 2001

I think the problem was probably taken care of when Bahg's broke his
brothers leg...
-Still Blazing-

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: >>>Old Music
date: Tue Nov 27 17:20:05 2001

On Tue Nov 27 15:09:32 2001 Zifnab wrote post #641:
> On Tue Nov 27 13:18:50 2001 Khosan wrote post #640:
> > On Tue Nov 27 07:58:14 2001 Einar wrote post #639:
> > > Does anyone have the old music from the old rd website?
> > > If so, could you please send it to me?
> > > That music rocked btw, just replay it over, and over, and over, and
> > > over, and...
> > 
> > What music, there never was any music on our website?
> > 
> > Khosan
> didnt darkstaff at one point put up some music to be downloaded?

He did under ~fred/ - thats not the "rd website". And it wasn't on this
server either, I wouldn't allow it for 5 ms. The police here has a web
site where you can enter an URL and their robot will downloade the
content and store it on a CD rom as evidence.

Khosan

-----------------

poster: Tektor
subject: Followups
date: Wed Nov 28 01:27:22 2001

Would be nice if people didn't use followups on stuff over a page
long. Read through it once, just a pain to try and scroll through it
again to get to the point. Be more effcient and get straight to the
point!

-----------------

poster: Mixer
subject: >My "Retirement"
date: Wed Nov 28 07:40:09 2001

On Tue Nov 27 15:29:25 2001 Bahgtru wrote post #642:
> I'd like to apologise on behalf of my brother for that last post. He
> managed to get in through the autologin in zMud, and posted this,
> left my clan, etc, etc.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not retiring
> 
> Just thought I'd let you know, I'm still here (in case you wonder)
> 
> - Bag o' returned poop
One word - AUTLOGIN!

We should nuke you for allowing someone else to use your character.

It doesn't say "deliberately" in the rules...

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: Contest
date: Wed Nov 28 17:45:54 2001

Quick and Simple Contest:
I need something funny to put in my plan!
Mail Submissions (Preferrably <15 lines).
Winner gets 1M gold + 1 randomly chosen piece of EQ from my safes.
Deadline is 12/5/01.
Sick/Obscene humor is ineligible but
creative use of any of the following is acceptable:
sweaty, beavers, pirate lust, hooer, nuts, dingo dogs
neckweasel, boob, noogie, teat, 

-----------------

poster: Rockman
subject: clan strongholds
date: Fri Nov 30 03:12:22 2001

just wondering what is going on with the clan stongholds and such

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: now you can rtfn
date: Sat Dec  1 03:02:37 2001

Stupid Christmas shit that should be painfully obvious:

a) Alignment: if you're evil align, you're sol with your little
lumps of coal. Get over it.
b) Present selection: if you get something, and you don't know if it
saves, *gasp* CHEST IT, see if it stays in the chest when you close
it. If it doesn't save, get over it.

c) You have to be level 10 (maybe 11) to get a present, and while I
think it should be more worth based, it isn't. If you can't get a
present because of this, blame Lu and get over it.

d) Presents are given once per boot. Don't like it? Too damn bad. Get over it.

e) Can't find Santa? He's not hard to find. Learn how to explore and
how to use verbs and get over it.

-Wildchild

-----------------

poster: Bahgtru
subject: >now you can rtfn
date: Sat Dec  1 03:07:38 2001

On Sat Dec  1 03:02:37 2001 Wildchild wrote post #650:
> Stupid Christmas shit that should be painfully obvious:
> 
> a) Alignment: if you're evil align, you're sol with your little
> lumps of coal. Get over it.
> b) Present selection: if you get something, and you don't know if it
> saves, *gasp* CHEST IT, see if it stays in the chest when you close
> it. If it doesn't save, get over it.
> 
> c) You have to be level 10 (maybe 11) to get a present, and while I
> think it should be more worth based, it isn't. If you can't get a
> present because of this, blame Lu and get over it.
> 
> d) Presents are given once per boot. Don't like it? Too damn bad. Get over
it.
> 
> e) Can't find Santa? He's not hard to find. Learn how to explore and
> how to use verbs and get over it.
> 
> -Wildchild
Ahh, Wildchild, the Scrooge of Red Dragon. Though unlike most
scrooges, he speaks the truth.

- Bag o' poop annoyed by annoying newbies

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >now you can rtfn
date: Sat Dec  1 07:46:47 2001

HEY, dont blame me, it was lvl 11 when i abused it

-lu

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: >>now you can rtfn
date: Sat Dec  1 08:13:56 2001

On Sat Dec  1 07:46:47 2001 Lu wrote post #652:
> HEY, dont blame me, it was lvl 11 when i abused it
> 
> -lu
You abused it, he's blaming you.
I'll be damned, 1+1 adds up to 2!
Q

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>now you can rtfn
date: Sat Dec  1 08:15:17 2001

hes blaming me for newbies not being able to get presents, i had
nothing to do with this cauese the onyl thing that chagned after i
abused it was the presense of lu for 10 days

-lu

-----------------

poster: Caliban
subject: Can ya beat this
date: Sun Dec  2 22:48:41 2001

Here is a nightmare of a story for anyone who thought they had a 
bad day...


12-1-01 My women's club volleyball team is leaving there tournament
early after getting knocked out of the semi-finals and taking fourth 
place. We are driving from Tampa to Tallahassee which is about 4hours.
One hour outside Tampa on the way home my van breaks down in the 
middle of nowhere. Luckily we have cell phones..after all I am 
traveling with 6 girls. ;) Anyways the (damn trigs) towtruck arrives
and takes us to Brooksville aka Incestville. At this point things 
are not that bad because my roadside service card pays for the 
towing. The van is towed to Dade City which is the nearest Dodge
dealership. Now that the van is taken care of we need to figure out
how in the hell we are to get home. So one of my girls calls her 
mother to drive the hour out of tampa and pick us up and take us 
back into Tampa to the airport so we can rent a car since all the 
normal rental places have already closed. Btw this is Sat. night. 
An hour later the girls mother arrives and drives us yet another 
hour back into Tampa to the airport. We rent a nice Expedition for 
$77 bucks and head back to Tallahassee. 

After another 3 hours (I drive fast) we arrive in Tallahassee. I 
drop off some of the girls and have to take the rest to the stadium 
so they can pick up there cars. But wait the story gets better. 
Once we arrive at the stadium the two girls cars are not there. Great
I think to myself what the hell else can go wrong now? So I call 
campus police and ask them. They tell me that they were towed by 
the Booster club for the football game that was earlier that day. 
So I get the Tow company aka Parasites phone number and head to my 
apt. to call them and find out that its going to cost $100 bucks
per car. Aggravated and tired we begin the drive to the towing 
company, and then it happens, Sirens! F*$k and other words run 
through my mind. I pull over the campus cop is a cocksucker and 
claims that I ran the red light which was friggin YELLOW at the 
time I entered the intersection. So I get a $90 dollar ticket for 
that and proceed to the towing company. Next I shell out $200 bucks 
for the girls to get there cars out. Finally around 4a.m. I make 
it home and go to bed. So the next time you think your having a 
bad day just remember how friggin unlucky I was and be thankful 
because your day was not like mine. So far I am out $367 bucks plus
whatever the van will cost hopefully its covered by my warrenty. 
Just thought I would share this UNBELIEVABLE day with all of you 
folks. Some day I am sure this will be a funny ass story to me, 
but atm it sucks worse than watching 24hours of sweetcam. 

-Cal

-----------------

poster: Baer
subject: >Can ya beat this
date: Sun Dec  2 23:57:24 2001

Half a dozen teen girls, in distress, wanting a real man to take
charge and make them feel better. No wonder you felt bad ya hoor.

-----------------

poster: Coal
subject: >>Can ya beat this
date: Mon Dec  3 04:37:54 2001

What no road head! That's a gawd awful day...no road head, not
gratuitus road sex...and all that driving and paying 
onies...horror...horror...unless you did get road head.
-Coal

-----------------

poster: Santiago
subject: Can ya beat this
date: Mon Dec  3 06:04:13 2001

Heh heh heh...I lived in the Dade City area for a year, I FEEL your pain.....
Javi

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >Can ya beat this
date: Mon Dec  3 06:12:10 2001

if you were outside of Tampa ... why didn't you just call me for help :P

Arkangyle

-----------------

poster: Zax
subject: >>Can ya beat this
date: Mon Dec  3 12:58:51 2001

On Mon Dec  3 06:12:10 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #659:
> if you were outside of Tampa ... why didn't you just call me for help :P
> 
> Arkangyle

he did try to call you for help, but everytime he was about to call,
he remembered your middle name was herbert, and cracked up laughing
before he could finish dialling...

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >>>Can ya beat this
date: Mon Dec  3 23:33:45 2001

On Mon Dec  3 12:58:51 2001 Zax wrote post #660:
> On Mon Dec  3 06:12:10 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #659:
> > if you were outside of Tampa ... why didn't you just call me for help :P
> > 
> > Arkangyle
> 
> he did try to call you for help, but everytime he was about to call,
> he remembered your middle name was herbert, and cracked up laughing
> before he could finish dialling...

kinda makes you wonder why Australia is considered a world power on
the scale of ... Canada :P doesn't it Ben ;)

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>Can ya beat this
date: Tue Dec  4 04:14:02 2001

On Mon Dec  3 12:58:51 2001 Zax wrote post #660:
> On Mon Dec  3 06:12:10 2001 Arkangyle wrote post #659:
> > if you were outside of Tampa ... why didn't you just call me for help :P
> > 
> > Arkangyle
> 
> he did try to call you for help, but everytime he was about to call,
> he remembered your middle name was herbert, and cracked up laughing
> before he could finish dialling...
ROFL herbert hahahahahahaha

-----------------

poster: Rockman
subject: >>>>Can ya beat this
date: Wed Dec  5 00:36:27 2001

nah, try living a bit further south towards ft lauderdale

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: My Pimp..
date: Wed Dec  5 01:45:35 2001

Alright.. I am much too beautifal of a woman to be going around free.
So.. you are all honored and will be allowed the one time only
chance to become my pimp.
Mail me your essay's explaining why you should exclusive pimpin'
rights over me.
Essay's must be at least a paragraph in length.

Thank you. That is all.

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: >My Pimp..
date: Wed Dec  5 05:09:56 2001

On Wed Dec  5 01:45:35 2001 Celine wrote post #664:
> Alright.. I am much too beautifal of a woman to be going around free.
> So.. you are all honored and will be allowed the one time only
> chance to become my pimp.
> Mail me your essay's explaining why you should exclusive pimpin'
> rights over me.
> Essay's must be at least a paragraph in length.
> 
> Thank you. That is all.
Right....

-----------------

poster: Wagro
subject: >>My Pimp..
date: Wed Dec  5 05:10:48 2001

On Wed Dec  5 05:09:56 2001 Quillz wrote post #665:
> On Wed Dec  5 01:45:35 2001 Celine wrote post #664:
> > Alright.. I am much too beautifal of a woman to be going around free.
> > So.. you are all honored and will be allowed the one time only
> > chance to become my pimp.
> > Mail me your essay's explaining why you should exclusive pimpin'
> > rights over me.
> > Essay's must be at least a paragraph in length.
> > 
> > Thank you. That is all.
> Right....
One word:
Lu

-----------------

poster: Blaze
subject: Coolness
date: Wed Dec  5 07:05:47 2001

When will we have peace?  That is the cry upon the lips of the multitude.
I hear it.  I understand it.  The answer is not easy to voice, and it is 
harder to hear.  Peace does not come when the brigands are slain.  It is 
not born with the end of a current War. It does not arrive with the 
beauty of the spring.  Peace is a gift of the grave, and is found only in 
the silence of the tomb.
-Blaze

-----------------

poster: Fox
subject: Splitting.
date: Wed Dec  5 08:11:14 2001

If there is a worth requirement to split, then write it up in the
'help split' and don't allow newbies like myself to buy a doll,
which in my case, I lost 5M exp, not to complain about, but there
needs to be something done about it.

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>My Pimp..
date: Wed Dec  5 08:18:03 2001

i already explained to celine that its a man
-lu

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: consistent xp
date: Wed Dec  5 08:34:17 2001

Trunks, Sirk and I are interested at running consistent XP parties
late night EST(starting between 7:00 and 8:00 rltime)

Trunks will be tanking, and sirk and i are lined up as blasters atm,
more wont hurt, but really need a vulning abj and a healer.

If interested Send one of us a tell

-lu, the xphoor

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: >>>>My Pimp..
date: Wed Dec  5 11:35:08 2001

On Wed Dec  5 08:18:03 2001 Lu wrote post #669:
> i already explained to celine that its a man
> -lu
Yes. Thank you Lu. And everyone else. I never did know what my own sex was.
Now that you all think you know what sex I am you can go back to
playing with yourselfs... on RedDragon i mean.
For those who don't give a rats ass... @}----+----

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Splitting.
date: Wed Dec  5 13:27:45 2001

On Wed Dec  5 08:11:14 2001 Fox wrote post #668:
> If there is a worth requirement to split, then write it up in the
> 'help split' and don't allow newbies like myself to buy a doll,
> which in my case, I lost 5M exp, not to complain about, but there
> needs to be something done about it.
there is no limit, you did not 'talk to gwaul'

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: >>>>>My Pimp..
date: Wed Dec  5 19:06:37 2001

On Wed Dec  5 11:35:08 2001 Celine wrote post #671:
> On Wed Dec  5 08:18:03 2001 Lu wrote post #669:
> > i already explained to celine that its a man
> > -lu
> Yes. Thank you Lu. And everyone else. I never did know what my own sex was.
> Now that you all think you know what sex I am you can go back to
> playing with yourselfs... on RedDragon i mean.
> For those who don't give a rats ass... @}----+----
thanks for the rat's ass exemption... i was worried

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>>>>My Pimp..
date: Wed Dec  5 21:05:23 2001

r hmm, the it just isnt comprehending, ALL of us dont give a rats ass
oops, thats not a reply, is it :)
-lu

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>>>>My Pimp..
date: Thu Dec  6 02:17:13 2001

On Wed Dec  5 19:06:37 2001 Uno wrote post #673:
> On Wed Dec  5 11:35:08 2001 Celine wrote post #671:
> > On Wed Dec  5 08:18:03 2001 Lu wrote post #669:
> > > i already explained to celine that its a man
> > > -lu
> > Yes. Thank you Lu. And everyone else. I never did know what my own sex
was.
> > Now that you all think you know what sex I am you can go back to
> > playing with yourselfs... on RedDragon i mean.
> > For those who don't give a rats ass... @}
---+----
> thanks for the rat's ass exemption... i was worried
ya pheewwww

-----------------

poster: Eponine
subject: Contest EXTENDED
date: Fri Dec  7 23:31:03 2001

Guess what, the baby decided not to show its gender today, so the
contest is extended until we find out the baby's gender. Finger me
for more details about this fun and exciting contest!

-----------------

poster: Waz
subject: Changes to chess area
date: Fri Dec  7 23:32:01 2001


Well, as Zif mentioned, I made some changes to my oddworld area.
Nothing dramatic, just that the area came JUST before the new
eq stat system and the mobbies with eq still used the old system
afaik, or if they were changed they might not have been the stats
I would have liked.  At any rate, all eq was updated.

Also, some change to the large eq mob, for those that have seen him.  He wasnt
working correctly, but since he's only been killed once afaik, no one
will notice a change.  Anyway, feel free to give him a shot. :)

-Waz

-----------------

poster: Tektor
subject: Tektor
date: Sat Dec  8 19:12:41 2001

50m Avatar looking for clan.

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: re: party
date: Sun Dec  9 03:50:31 2001

also would like to thank zif, who took the time to help us with
errors in the code
-lu

-----------------

poster: Fox
subject: MA's.
date: Tue Dec 11 03:31:07 2001

Martial artist's, like myself need to be accepted into (huge,
decent, or medsize) exp/eq parties ... need some skills/spells to
any of the guilds or a new guild to not have MA's get rejected _all_
the time to a party of people from 200M-600M of atleast 5-9.

-----------------

poster: Trance
subject: >MA's.
date: Tue Dec 11 12:40:51 2001

On Tue Dec 11 03:31:07 2001 Fox wrote post #680:
> Martial artist's, like myself need to be accepted into (huge,
> decent, or medsize) exp/eq parties ... need some skills/spells to
> any of the guilds or a new guild to not have MA's get rejected _all_
> the time to a party of people from 200M-600M of atleast 5-9.

There is already an awesome ability for MA's worth 200m - 600m who
want to get into more xp parties. Its called 'reincarnation'. What
you do is, ask a nice healer to reinc you, then you go die, touch
the healer's rod, then choose a race, and when you get to the bit
where you choose a guild, you choose something that isn't MA. Nice
and easy, and it works just as well for every other guild too,
bonus. =)

- Trance


-----------------

poster: Fox
subject: >>MA's.
date: Tue Dec 11 17:50:48 2001

On Tue Dec 11 12:40:51 2001 Trance wrote post #681:
> On Tue Dec 11 03:31:07 2001 Fox wrote post #680:
> > Martial artist's, like myself need to be accepted into (huge,
> > decent, or medsize) exp/eq parties ... need some skills/spells to
> > any of the guilds or a new guild to not have MA's get rejected _all_
> > the time to a party of people from 200M-600M of atleast 5-9.
> 
> There is already an awesome ability for MA's worth 200m - 600m who
> want to get into more xp parties. Its called 'reincarnation'. What
> you do is, ask a nice healer to reinc you, then you go die, touch
> the healer's rod, then choose a race, and when you get to the bit
> where you choose a guild, you choose something that isn't MA. Nice
> and easy, and it works just as well for every other guild too,
> bonus. =)
> 
> - Trance
> 
I did NOT ask for anyone to be a smart @$$. And your comment just
makes me upset. 

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>MA's.
date: Tue Dec 11 17:51:18 2001

sadly, atm, trance is correct
-lu

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: >>>MA's.
date: Tue Dec 11 17:57:22 2001

On Tue Dec 11 17:50:48 2001 Fox wrote post #682:
> On Tue Dec 11 12:40:51 2001 Trance wrote post #681:
> > On Tue Dec 11 03:31:07 2001 Fox wrote post #680:
> > > Martial artist's, like myself need to be accepted into (huge,
> > > decent, or medsize) exp/eq parties ... need some skills/spells to
> > > any of the guilds or a new guild to not have MA's get rejected _all_
> > > the time to a party of people from 200M-600M of atleast 5-9.
> > 
> > There is already an awesome ability for MA's worth 200m - 600m who
> > want to get into more xp parties. Its called 'reincarnation'. What
> > you do is, ask a nice healer to reinc you, then you go die, touch
> > the healer's rod, then choose a race, and when you get to the bit
> > where you choose a guild, you choose something that isn't MA. Nice
> > and easy, and it works just as well for every other guild too,
> > bonus. =)
> > 
> > - Trance
> > 
> I did NOT ask for anyone to be a smart @$$. And your comment just
> makes me upset. 
I've suggested in the past that MA's be granted an improved disarm
to help with EQ. a disarm that actually worked on high level mobs
would be huge and get an MA into some parties.
//u
p.s. sorry you are sad. i suggest yoga.

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>>MA's.
date: Tue Dec 11 18:17:32 2001

On Tue Dec 11 17:57:22 2001 Uno wrote post #684:
> On Tue Dec 11 17:50:48 2001 Fox wrote post #682:
> > On Tue Dec 11 12:40:51 2001 Trance wrote post #681:
> > > On Tue Dec 11 03:31:07 2001 Fox wrote post #680:
> > > > Martial artist's, like myself need to be accepted into (huge,
> > > > decent, or medsize) exp/eq parties ... need some skills/spells to
> > > > any of the guilds or a new guild to not have MA's get rejected _all_
> > > > the time to a party of people from 200M-600M of atleast 5-9.
> > > 
> > > There is already an awesome ability for MA's worth 200m - 600m who
> > > want to get into more xp parties. Its called 'reincarnation'. What
> > > you do is, ask a nice healer to reinc you, then you go die, touch
> > > the healer's rod, then choose a race, and when you get to the bit
> > > where you choose a guild, you choose something that isn't MA. Nice
> > > and easy, and it works just as well for every other guild too,
> > > bonus. =)
> > > 
> > > - Trance
> > > 
> > I did NOT ask for anyone to be a smart @$$. And your comment just
> > makes me upset. 
> I've suggested in the past that MA's be granted an improved disarm
> to help with EQ. a disarm that actually worked on high level mobs
> would be huge and get an MA into some parties.
> //u
> p.s. sorry you are sad. i suggest yoga.
you shouldnt eat as much red meat, it will stop you from snappign on people

-----------------

poster: Fox
subject: >>>>>MA's.
date: Tue Dec 11 18:18:16 2001

On Tue Dec 11 18:17:32 2001 Sleet wrote post #685:
> On Tue Dec 11 17:57:22 2001 Uno wrote post #684:
> > On Tue Dec 11 17:50:48 2001 Fox wrote post #682:
> > > On Tue Dec 11 12:40:51 2001 Trance wrote post #681:
> > > > On Tue Dec 11 03:31:07 2001 Fox wrote post #680:
> > > > > Martial artist's, like myself need to be accepted into (huge,
> > > > > decent, or medsize) exp/eq parties ... need some skills/spells to
> > > > > any of the guilds or a new guild to not have MA's get rejected _all_
> > > > > the time to a party of people from 200M-600M of atleast 5-9.
> > > > 
> > > > There is already an awesome ability for MA's worth 200m - 600m who
> > > > want to get into more xp parties. Its called 'reincarnation'. What
> > > > you do is, ask a nice healer to reinc you, then you go die, touch
> > > > the healer's rod, then choose a race, and when you get to the bit
> > > > where you choose a guild, you choose something that isn't MA. Nice
> > > > and easy, and it works just as well for every other guild too,
> > > > bonus. =)
> > > > 
> > > > - Trance
> > > > 
> > > I did NOT ask for anyone to be a smart @$$. And your comment just
> > > makes me upset. 
> > I've suggested in the past that MA's be granted an improved disarm
> > to help with EQ. a disarm that actually worked on high level mobs
> > would be huge and get an MA into some parties.
> > //u
> > p.s. sorry you are sad. i suggest yoga.
> you shouldnt eat as much red meat, it will stop you from snappign on people
I swear, it's the stress level from where I work!!! Honest!

-----------------

poster: Bob
subject: harmer area
date: Tue Dec 11 18:18:28 2001

Harmers have no way to kill multiple monsies at once until they are
at higbie worth, any possible way to give them a passable area b4
then?

-----------------

poster: Trance
subject: >harmer area
date: Tue Dec 11 18:20:24 2001

On Tue Dec 11 18:18:28 2001 Bob wrote post #687:
> Harmers have no way to kill multiple monsies at once until they are
> at higbie worth, any possible way to give them a passable area b4
> then?

I refer to the 'reincarnation' comment.

-----------------

poster: Fox
subject: >>harmer area
date: Tue Dec 11 18:20:49 2001

On Tue Dec 11 18:20:24 2001 Trance wrote post #688:
> On Tue Dec 11 18:18:28 2001 Bob wrote post #687:
> > Harmers have no way to kill multiple monsies at once until they are
> > at higbie worth, any possible way to give them a passable area b4
> > then?
> 
> I refer to the 'reincarnation' comment.
Enough w/ that, already.

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>harmer area
date: Tue Dec 11 20:08:08 2001

On Tue Dec 11 18:20:49 2001 Fox wrote post #689:
> On Tue Dec 11 18:20:24 2001 Trance wrote post #688:
> > On Tue Dec 11 18:18:28 2001 Bob wrote post #687:
> > > Harmers have no way to kill multiple monsies at once until they are
> > > at higbie worth, any possible way to give them a passable area b4
> > > then?
> > 
> > I refer to the 'reincarnation' comment.
> Enough w/ that, already.
sleet
im telling ya man, red meat, if ya cut it out you wont be as hostile

-----------------

poster: Warchief
subject: >>>>MA's.
date: Tue Dec 11 20:13:23 2001

On Tue Dec 11 17:57:22 2001 Uno wrote post #684:
> On Tue Dec 11 17:50:48 2001 Fox wrote post #682:
> > On Tue Dec 11 12:40:51 2001 Trance wrote post #681:
> > > On Tue Dec 11 03:31:07 2001 Fox wrote post #680:
> > > > Martial artist's, like myself need to be accepted into (huge,
> > > > decent, or medsize) exp/eq parties ... need some skills/spells to
> > > > any of the guilds or a new guild to not have MA's get rejected _all_
> > > > the time to a party of people from 200M-600M of atleast 5-9.
> > > 
> > > There is already an awesome ability for MA's worth 200m - 600m who
> > > want to get into more xp parties. Its called 'reincarnation'. What
> > > you do is, ask a nice healer to reinc you, then you go die, touch
> > > the healer's rod, then choose a race, and when you get to the bit
> > > where you choose a guild, you choose something that isn't MA. Nice
> > > and easy, and it works just as well for every other guild too,
> > > bonus. =)
> > > 
> > > - Trance
> > > 
> > I did NOT ask for anyone to be a smart @$$. And your comment just
> > makes me upset. 
> I've suggested in the past that MA's be granted an improved disarm
> to help with EQ. a disarm that actually worked on high level mobs
> would be huge and get an MA into some parties.
> //u
> p.s. sorry you are sad. i suggest yoga.

Two things:
1.  Some monsters seem to hit harder without their weapons, though
they don't get the bonus of the weapon specials.
2.  Would many eq parties really give up a pick to have a disarmer? 
This may be good, but (while I would like all guilds able to be able
to do eq and exp equally) I think MAs at this point should just be
geared towards more exp means.  Probably the main reason right now
that people don't let them into parties is because the people in the
parties don't realize that the MA can actually do a lot of damage. 
Another thing about MAs is that they seem to have lost a lot to
warriors when stuns were given chance to be hit on non-critical
hits.

Just my thoughts on the matter
-Chief

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: >>>harmer area
date: Tue Dec 11 21:44:12 2001

On Tue Dec 11 18:20:49 2001 Fox wrote post #689:
> On Tue Dec 11 18:20:24 2001 Trance wrote post #688:
> > On Tue Dec 11 18:18:28 2001 Bob wrote post #687:
> > > Harmers have no way to kill multiple monsies at once until they are
> > > at higbie worth, any possible way to give them a passable area b4
> > > then?
> > 
> > I refer to the 'reincarnation' comment.
> Enough w/ that, already.
Agreed.  Trance, dude.  Try to use 'some' of your mental capacity. 
On second thought maybe not.  Dont hurt yourself. 

-----------------

poster: Chrono
subject: ma's/harmer area
date: Tue Dec 11 22:08:15 2001

first id like to say, find a woodsman, an abjurer w/ physical vuln,
a woodsman, and a good healer that dont tap...and there is your
party

now for harmers, there are lots of solo areas for harmers, some
maynot be as good as others, try pouch for example..pretty big
area..students, and many others..

if you dont like the guild your in sac some stuff and reinc..thats
all i gotta say, most of ya been a guild more than once, and know
what its like, why go back if theres somethin that seriously wrong
with it?

-----------------

poster: Rizzly
subject: >ma's/harmer area
date: Tue Dec 11 22:11:25 2001

On Tue Dec 11 22:08:15 2001 Chrono wrote post #693:
> first id like to say, find a woodsman, an abjurer w/ physical vuln,
> a woodsman, and a good healer that dont tap...and there is your
> party
> 
> now for harmers, there are lots of solo areas for harmers, some
> maynot be as good as others, try pouch for example..pretty big
> area..students, and many others..
> 
> if you dont like the guild your in sac some stuff and reinc..thats
> all i gotta say, most of ya been a guild more than once, and know
> what its like, why go back if theres somethin that seriously wrong
> with it?

He wasn't saying there aren't any good harmer solo room areas, he
was saying would it be possible for harmers to get an area spell
before highbie worth.

Rizzly

-----------------

poster: Chrono
subject: ma's/harmer area
date: Tue Dec 11 22:13:39 2001

oic, my mistake take back what i said for harmers, also like to fix
something (was sorta in a hurry to post, since im in a party), for
ma's 

-----------------

poster: Chrono
subject: hrm
date: Tue Dec 11 22:15:34 2001

for mas, get a woodsman a healer and an abjurer, stupid post didnt
show up..whine

-----------------

poster: Baer
subject: >ma's/harmer area
date: Tue Dec 11 23:59:36 2001

On Tue Dec 11 22:13:39 2001 Chrono wrote post #695:
> oic, my mistake take back what i said for harmers, also like to fix
> something (was sorta in a hurry to post, since im in a party), for
> ma's  and a healer that dont tap>
well I think its pretty sad that you suggest that he get a woodsman
(animist) to tank for a ma (fighter). unfortunately it may well be
true for those woodsmen who dont have toad or dragon style.

hope we fix this soon.

-----------------

poster: Trance
subject: >>>>harmer area
date: Wed Dec 12 01:36:31 2001

On Tue Dec 11 21:44:12 2001 Quillz wrote post #692:
> On Tue Dec 11 18:20:49 2001 Fox wrote post #689:
> > On Tue Dec 11 18:20:24 2001 Trance wrote post #688:
> > > On Tue Dec 11 18:18:28 2001 Bob wrote post #687:
> > > > Harmers have no way to kill multiple monsies at once until they are
> > > > at higbie worth, any possible way to give them a passable area b4
> > > > then?
> > > 
> > > I refer to the 'reincarnation' comment.
> > Enough w/ that, already.
> Agreed.  Trance, dude.  Try to use 'some' of your mental capacity. 
> On second thought maybe not.  Dont hurt yourself. 
The point of my post was that: If you don't like your guild, reinc
out of it. We don't need people spamming news whining about how
their favorite guild, X, sucks because it can't do one particular
thing that the player may want it to. Guilds are the way they are
for a reason, and unless its a serious deficiency or a bug (neither
of the two cases stated previously were such), then 99% chances are
that its intended to be that way. On another note, keep flames out
of the news groups. Flames are another thing we don't need here, nor
do the target of said flames usually give a rats bunghole.

- Trance


-----------------

poster: Rizzly
subject: >>>>>harmer area
date: Wed Dec 12 01:53:48 2001

On Wed Dec 12 01:36:31 2001 Trance wrote post #698:
> On Tue Dec 11 21:44:12 2001 Quillz wrote post #692:
> > On Tue Dec 11 18:20:49 2001 Fox wrote post #689:
> > > On Tue Dec 11 18:20:24 2001 Trance wrote post #688:
> > > > On Tue Dec 11 18:18:28 2001 Bob wrote post #687:
> > > > > Harmers have no way to kill multiple monsies at once until they are
> > > > > at higbie worth, any possible way to give them a passable area b4
> > > > > then?
> > > > 
> > > > I refer to the 'reincarnation' comment.
> > > Enough w/ that, already.
> > Agreed.  Trance, dude.  Try to use 'some' of your mental capacity. 
> > On second thought maybe not.  Dont hurt yourself. 
> The point of my post was that: If you don't like your guild, reinc
> out of it. We don't need people spamming news whining about how
> their favorite guild, X, sucks because it can't do one particular
> thing that the player may want it to. Guilds are the way they are
> for a reason, and unless its a serious deficiency or a bug (neither
> of the two cases stated previously were such), then 99% chances are
> that its intended to be that way. On another note, keep flames out
> of the news groups. Flames are another thing we don't need here, nor
> do the target of said flames usually give a rats bunghole.
> 
> - Trance
> 

If that's the way you feel about it, then ponder this: how would
guilds ever evolve if people didn't bring up new ideas for them? 
This would be a stagnant place, indeed, without fresh ideas coming
from different sources.  Sure, not all of them are the greatest, but
hey, at least they're trying to improve the gameplay here.  You're
just being a jackass and totally counterproductive by saying, "The
guilds are perfect.  If you don't like them, leave."

Rizzly

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >>>>>harmer area
date: Wed Dec 12 01:55:12 2001

On Wed Dec 12 01:36:31 2001 Trance wrote post #698:
> On Tue Dec 11 21:44:12 2001 Quillz wrote post #692:
> > On Tue Dec 11 18:20:49 2001 Fox wrote post #689:
> > > On Tue Dec 11 18:20:24 2001 Trance wrote post #688:
> > > > On Tue Dec 11 18:18:28 2001 Bob wrote post #687:
> > > > > Harmers have no way to kill multiple monsies at once until they are
> > > > > at higbie worth, any possible way to give them a passable area b4
> > > > > then?
> > > > 
> > > > I refer to the 'reincarnation' comment.
> > > Enough w/ that, already.
> > Agreed.  Trance, dude.  Try to use 'some' of your mental capacity. 
> > On second thought maybe not.  Dont hurt yourself. 
> The point of my post was that: If you don't like your guild, reinc
> out of it. We don't need people spamming news whining about how
> their favorite guild, X, sucks because it can't do one particular
> thing that the player may want it to. Guilds are the way they are
> for a reason, and unless its a serious deficiency or a bug (neither
> of the two cases stated previously were such), then 99% chances are
> that its intended to be that way. On another note, keep flames out
> of the news groups. Flames are another thing we don't need here, nor
> do the target of said flames usually give a rats bunghole.
> 
> - Trance
> 

Since everybody else is spamming, including Trance, I wanted to add
my two slices of spam.

-WC

-----------------

poster: Wagro
subject: >>>>>>harmer area
date: Wed Dec 12 01:55:58 2001

On Wed Dec 12 01:55:12 2001 Wildchild wrote post #700:
> On Wed Dec 12 01:36:31 2001 Trance wrote post #698:
> > On Tue Dec 11 21:44:12 2001 Quillz wrote post #692:
> > > On Tue Dec 11 18:20:49 2001 Fox wrote post #689:
> > > > On Tue Dec 11 18:20:24 2001 Trance wrote post #688:
> > > > > On Tue Dec 11 18:18:28 2001 Bob wrote post #687:
> > > > > > Harmers have no way to kill multiple monsies at once until they
are
> > > > > > at higbie worth, any possible way to give them a passable area b4
> > > > > > then?
> > > > > 
> > > > > I refer to the 'reincarnation' comment.
> > > > Enough w/ that, already.
> > > Agreed.  Trance, dude.  Try to use 'some' of your mental capacity. 
> > > On second thought maybe not.  Dont hurt yourself. 
> > The point of my post was that: If you don't like your guild, reinc
> > out of it. We don't need people spamming news whining about how
> > their favorite guild, X, sucks because it can't do one particular
> > thing that the player may want it to. Guilds are the way they are
> > for a reason, and unless its a serious deficiency or a bug (neither
> > of the two cases stated previously were such), then 99% chances are
> > that its intended to be that way. On another note, keep flames out
> > of the news groups. Flames are another thing we don't need here, nor
> > do the target of said flames usually give a rats bunghole.
> > 
> > - Trance
> > 
> 
> Since everybody else is spamming, including Trance, I wanted to add
> my two slices of spam.
> 
> -WC
ooh me too!

-----------------

poster: Blackthorne
subject: >>>>>>>harmer area
date: Wed Dec 12 02:40:37 2001

On Wed Dec 12 01:55:58 2001 Wagro wrote post #701:
> On Wed Dec 12 01:55:12 2001 Wildchild wrote post #700:
> > On Wed Dec 12 01:36:31 2001 Trance wrote post #698:
> > > On Tue Dec 11 21:44:12 2001 Quillz wrote post #692:
> > > > On Tue Dec 11 18:20:49 2001 Fox wrote post #689:
> > > > > On Tue Dec 11 18:20:24 2001 Trance wrote post #688:
> > > > > > On Tue Dec 11 18:18:28 2001 Bob wrote post #687:
> > > > > > > Harmers have no way to kill multiple monsies at once until they
> are
> > > > > > > at higbie worth, any possible way to give them a passable area
b4
> > > > > > > then?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I refer to the 'reincarnation' comment.
> > > > > Enough w/ that, already.
> > > > Agreed.  Trance, dude.  Try to use 'some' of your mental capacity. 
> > > > On second thought maybe not.  Dont hurt yourself. 
> > > The point of my post was that: If you don't like your guild, reinc
> > > out of it. We don't need people spamming news whining about how
> > > their favorite guild, X, sucks because it can't do one particular
> > > thing that the player may want it to. Guilds are the way they are
> > > for a reason, and unless its a serious deficiency or a bug (neither
> > > of the two cases stated previously were such), then 99% chances are
> > > that its intended to be that way. On another note, keep flames out
> > > of the news groups. Flames are another thing we don't need here, nor
> > > do the target of said flames usually give a rats bunghole.
> > > 
> > > - Trance
> > > 
> > 
> > Since everybody else is spamming, including Trance, I wanted to add
> > my two slices of spam.
> > 
> > -WC
> ooh me too!
can i get in on this?

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>>>>>>harmer area
date: Wed Dec 12 03:02:36 2001

On Wed Dec 12 02:40:37 2001 Blackthorne wrote post #702:
> On Wed Dec 12 01:55:58 2001 Wagro wrote post #701:
> > On Wed Dec 12 01:55:12 2001 Wildchild wrote post #700:
> > > On Wed Dec 12 01:36:31 2001 Trance wrote post #698:
> > > > On Tue Dec 11 21:44:12 2001 Quillz wrote post #692:
> > > > > On Tue Dec 11 18:20:49 2001 Fox wrote post #689:
> > > > > > On Tue Dec 11 18:20:24 2001 Trance wrote post #688:
> > > > > > > On Tue Dec 11 18:18:28 2001 Bob wrote post #687:
> > > > > > > > Harmers have no way to kill multiple monsies at once until
they
> > are
> > > > > > > > at higbie worth, any possible way to give them a passable area
> b4
> > > > > > > > then?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I refer to the 'reincarnation' comment.
> > > > > > Enough w/ that, already.
> > > > > Agreed.  Trance, dude.  Try to use 'some' of your mental capacity. 
> > > > > On second thought maybe not.  Dont hurt yourself. 
> > > > The point of my post was that: If you don't like your guild, reinc
> > > > out of it. We don't need people spamming news whining about how
> > > > their favorite guild, X, sucks because it can't do one particular
> > > > thing that the player may want it to. Guilds are the way they are
> > > > for a reason, and unless its a serious deficiency or a bug (neither
> > > > of the two cases stated previously were such), then 99% chances are
> > > > that its intended to be that way. On another note, keep flames out
> > > > of the news groups. Flames are another thing we don't need here, nor
> > > > do the target of said flames usually give a rats bunghole.
> > > > 
> > > > - Trance
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Since everybody else is spamming, including Trance, I wanted to add
> > > my two slices of spam.
> > > 
> > > -WC
> > ooh me too!
> can i get in on this?
muahahahahaha**
****

-----------------

poster: Kaos
subject: >>ma's/harmer area
date: Wed Dec 12 04:09:16 2001

On Tue Dec 11 23:59:36 2001 Baer wrote post #697:
> On Tue Dec 11 22:13:39 2001 Chrono wrote post #695:
> > oic, my mistake take back what i said for harmers, also like to fix
> > something (was sorta in a hurry to post, since im in a party), for
> > ma's  > and a healer that dont tap>
> well I think its pretty sad that you suggest that he get a woodsman
> (animist) to tank for a ma (fighter). unfortunately it may well be
> true for those woodsmen who dont have toad or dragon style.
> 
> hope we fix this soon.
When I was woodsman, I didn't have either toad or dragon style, but
I could tank birds anyway.

-----------------

poster: Zu
subject: Chanukah
date: Wed Dec 12 04:49:03 2001

To all those Jewish people in RD I would like to wish you all
a Happy Chanukah

-----------------

poster: Kelyr
subject: >>>ma's/harmer area
date: Wed Dec 12 05:13:34 2001

Okies I don't post much, but I would like to give my two cents
worth, be it what it may...

I'll admit, I've never been a Martial Artist, and I've sworn never
to reinc to a Martial Artist...However Warchief has reinced to
Martial Artist plenty of times, so I would say after hearing all of
his babble and partying with him, that I do know a little bit about
them.
I believe the main objective of Fox's post was to try and bring up a
"little" attention (NOT a spam fest..) towards the guild and say
"Hey look, maybe a damage skill or whatnot would really liven up
things." However I think the posts have strayed away from that
focus.
In short, I've been a healer whenever Warchief goes MA, and our
rates suck. (sorry chief..) but I would think there might be a
little problem when a healer and a 400M-500M (forget his last worth)
Martial artist struggles to hold a 30k rate, when I recently went
woodsman and soloed a decent 30k rate by myself at around 200M.\
For those people who still think that "well you can always
reincarnate" is an option. I mean look at the witch guild, before
Dram fixed it up, they weren't exactly the most "desired". Not to
mention bards have really gone a long way. Ok anyways, to wrap this
up, think how much fun midbe's could be having if a few skills were
added to MA, just like bard/Witch offer now.
Be it a damage skill or some manuevers I don't know. I do believe
that those who have dedicated a good chunk of reincs to MA should
have some say in the matter...
Wow long post, sorry guys but thats my buck fifty...Just think about it!

Kelyr, The one who wants Warchief to be happy with his reincs!

-----------------

poster: Phire
subject: >>>>ma's/harmer area
date: Wed Dec 12 05:19:37 2001

The problem with the MA guild will not be fixed by giving them one or two 
more skills (they already have a damage skill - tiger claw).

In my opinion, to fix MAs means to go and make some "fixes" in the
combat system
itself (not a trivial task)

On a side note, back in the day, everyone would have said that woodsman soloed
too well and should be tuned, rather than upping every other guild
to compensate :)


-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>>>>>>>harmer area
date: Wed Dec 12 07:28:32 2001

use a damn lower case f, we dont need to see the same post 50 times
-lu

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>>ma's/harmer area
date: Wed Dec 12 07:31:35 2001

the reason fox's post casue spam is because fox doesnt bring up a
suggestion, he demands that things cahnge to the way he wants
them(not providing examples of such) and does it in a not so nice
matter.  I don't care what he blames it on, but the last 4-5 posts
of his demanding changes don't do much.  If you think something
sucks, propose an idea, ainstead of writing a crappy post.
-lu


-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>>>ma's/harmer area
date: Wed Dec 12 07:32:44 2001

hmm, dont ma's get tiger claw, i believe thats a damage skill, and i
believe i had it at >100m worth
btw, sorry about all these posts, my brain isnt workning verywell,
is hould have tried to combine all my thougths into one post ;)

-lu, the spaminator

-----------------

poster: Santiago
subject: Progesterex
date: Wed Dec 12 13:20:45 2001

I know this isn't mud related, but this is the sixth time I've
gotten this e-mail this week alone and I'm tired of this stupid
rumor going around.
If anyone recieves an e-mail about a drug called Progesterex being
used in connection with date rape, ignore it, delete it,
whatever...just don't pass it on. No such drug exists, the entire
e-mail is false.
That isn't to say you shouldn't be aware of the real drugs that are
out there...this just isn't one of them...
Javi

-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: >>>>>ma's/harmer area
date: Wed Dec 12 13:28:05 2001

On Wed Dec 12 05:19:37 2001 Phire wrote post #707:
> The problem with the MA guild will not be fixed by giving them one or two 
> more skills (they already have a damage skill - tiger claw).
> 
> In my opinion, to fix MAs means to go and make some "fixes" in the
> combat system
> itself (not a trivial task)
> 
> On a side note, back in the day, everyone would have said that woodsman
soloed
> too well and should be tuned, rather than upping every other guild
> to compensate :)
> 
if so, i'm an oldie...or at least i agree with them back in the days
*/Snoop

-----------------

poster: Kaos
subject: >>>>>ma's/harmer area
date: Wed Dec 12 16:39:46 2001

> On a side note, back in the day, everyone would have said that woodsman
soloed
> too well and should be tuned, rather than upping every other guild
> to compensate :)

Where have you been the last months? Woodsman is untuned, and people
have been saying so for a long time.

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: this guy is a badass
date: Thu Dec 13 16:43:46 2001

http://www.classicgaming.com/vcsp/

-----------------

poster: Lostego
subject: Cauldron Magic
date: Fri Dec 14 00:57:20 2001

Dunno if it's cauldron magic or beholders that are out of tune but
it's scary seeing 70meg chars clearing large beholders.Beholders
don't entry hit etc that could be a big part of it.

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >Cauldron Magic
date: Fri Dec 14 03:32:46 2001

On Fri Dec 14 00:57:20 2001 Lostego wrote post #715:
> Dunno if it's cauldron magic or beholders that are out of tune but
> it's scary seeing 70meg chars clearing large beholders.Beholders
> don't entry hit etc that could be a big part of it.

If that guild gets tuned any more, than it might as well be removed,
because if they kill anything bigger than that, then throwbacks
increase greatly. 

As it stands, the guild also never increases in power or anything,
so what they kill now is pretty much what they'll be soloing at
500meg or 1gig.

-WC

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >Cauldron Magic
date: Fri Dec 14 03:44:44 2001

On Fri Dec 14 00:57:20 2001 Lostego wrote post #715:
> Dunno if it's cauldron magic or beholders that are out of tune but
> it's scary seeing 70meg chars clearing large beholders.Beholders
> don't entry hit etc that could be a big part of it.

kinda of silly to tune a guild simply because you are upset that
they are stealing YOUR beholders.  Don'tcha think?

-----------------

poster: Chrono
subject: Cauldron Magic
date: Fri Dec 14 05:56:39 2001

i believe many of these cauldrons were cauldron b4 you...anyway, you
should be able to kill sidhes or equivilant..cauldron
dont have many places to solo, if ya hate that ppl are killin in
same area (which most have to, since they are too small to kill else
where), then find somewhere else, or use your blasting spell(s) and
grab a healer if needbe, you could probably get a better rate that
away anyway..and if your killing beholders for gold, there are many
gold areas ;)

anyway, i agree with ark..why try to get something tuned, just so
YOU are happy..and once again, i remind you that most cant solo
elsewhere, because they are too small, some other areas are -
dinos,sidhes,dragons,citizens,novice and adepts, and probably
others, try those before you get all pissy

Chrono

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >Cauldron Magic
date: Fri Dec 14 07:40:41 2001

hehe, lostego was cauldron way back at 300m, and the reason i left
was cause people killed my beholders :)
-lu

-----------------

poster: Sumerion
subject: Cauldron Magic
date: Fri Dec 14 15:00:47 2001

wc says that a 70m can solo as good as a 500m or 1g something has to
be chanhed

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >Cauldron Magic
date: Fri Dec 14 15:03:36 2001

the only way that would change is if cauldron had more guilds,
cauldron isnt a tree, its an obscure tree that really has nothing to
do with witch, and i think its fine as it is, if at 500m you want a
better solo, reinc druid :)(
-lu

-----------------

poster: Dram
subject: >>Cauldron Magic
date: Fri Dec 14 15:47:54 2001

End this string, cauldron is not gouing to be changed, it ISNT out
of tune like it is being said, if anything beholders would be out of
tune for not having entry hits. Instead you guys are so backwards
you rather a guild be tuneds.

Dram

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >>>Cauldron Magic
date: Fri Dec 14 16:17:05 2001

On Fri Dec 14 15:47:54 2001 Dram wrote post #722:
> End this string, cauldron is not gouing to be changed, it ISNT out
> of tune like it is being said, if anything beholders would be out of
> tune for not having entry hits. Instead you guys are so backwards
> you rather a guild be tuneds.
> 
> Dram

I believe beholders lack entry hits because they have no actual limbs? ...

-----------------

poster: Ronan
subject: >>>>Cauldron Magic
date: Fri Dec 14 19:26:34 2001

I have no clue, why people are saying they dont have entry hits, I
have not only been hit, but stunned on entry many times.  And If a
guy worth 1.4G wants to whine cause HE wants to solo were he did at
300M and there are other guys there then so be it.  Its just
everyday mudlife.
nuff said

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>>>Cauldron Magic
date: Fri Dec 14 19:43:52 2001

if your getting hit by behodlers, then you arent using the walk command
-lu

-----------------

poster: Lostego
subject: >Cauldron Magic
date: Fri Dec 14 22:04:21 2001

When did i say there were MY beholders? They are an area in the game.
Seems odd to me that 70meg chars can kill them.

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >>Cauldron Magic
date: Fri Dec 14 22:06:40 2001

On Fri Dec 14 22:04:21 2001 Lostego wrote post #726:
> When did i say there were MY beholders? They are an area in the game.
> Seems odd to me that 70meg chars can kill them.

I think you missed a few posts, Lostego.

What they kill at 70meg is about all they'll kill for the rest of
their lives if they stayed cauldron and gained worth.

Get over it already.

-WC

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: Road Trip!
date: Sat Dec 15 04:38:45 2001

All right everyone, I'm going on a damn road trip and wanna meet
some o' all ya'll. 
I'm heading down to Florida from Southe-Eastern Minnesota. 
So if anyone thats on my friends list/I'm on their's or just talk to
a lot, and you live somewhere between MN and Florida, lemme know
where and I might stop by. 
I'll proly head out Monday, so try to get ahold of me before then.  
More to come in the next day or 2. 
Q

-----------------

poster: Baer
subject: >Road Trip!
date: Sat Dec 15 04:40:27 2001

On Sat Dec 15 04:38:45 2001 Quillz wrote post #728:
> All right everyone, I'm going on a damn road trip and wanna meet
> some o' all ya'll. 
> I'm heading down to Florida from Southe-Eastern Minnesota. 
> So if anyone thats on my friends list/I'm on their's or just talk to
> a lot, and you live somewhere between MN and Florida, lemme know
> where and I might stop by. 
> I'll proly head out Monday, so try to get ahold of me before then.  
> More to come in the next day or 2. 
> Q
Guess it depends which way you go, as to whether you can go by via my place.

-----------------

poster: Santiago
subject: This could be YOU....
date: Mon Dec 17 21:20:41 2001

A friend of mine put this up, and her point is very valid...rude and
inconsiderate fans at concerts totally ruin the show...I urge you
all to go take a look at this picture, it might be one of you ;)
http://www.rocketridepress.com/wnci.htm

-----------------

poster: Eponine
subject: Last Chance for Contest!
date: Thu Dec 20 04:59:22 2001

OK all you procrastinators out there, the baby's sex WILL be
determined on Monday, December 24th via amniocentesis. Results will
be available about 2-3 weeks after that date due. Make sure you get
your guesses in before I find out! Information on the contest can be
found in my plan.

-----------------

poster: Dizkantir
subject: computer troubles
date: Sat Dec 22 15:04:50 2001

Ummm.. Just wanted to say sorry to all in the party w/ me Friday
night... my monitor kind of exploded, had a few other problems. it
finally came to the point where the computer would just not tun on
at all... umm, specially sorry to Trigon, heard it angered him a
bit. Sorry.

-----------------

poster: Jarel
subject: Chest combos to easy..
date: Sat Dec 22 17:49:22 2001

cough Aha! I found a TICK!
I never though someone would stupe as low as to steal other guys eq things..
The person who stole my mace of power, and my white stole of mitra
should burn in hell....
Zifnab is right though it's my own fault when sharing castles and
having to easy combos... 
cough Aha! I found a TICK!
I guess this proves the fact that Swedish people are naive and
easily fooled...
Dishonest ppl SUCK!
*Depressed Jarel*

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: >Chest combos to easy..
date: Sat Dec 22 19:33:25 2001

On Sat Dec 22 17:49:22 2001 Jarel wrote post #733:
> cough Aha! I found a TICK!
> I never though someone would stupe as low as to steal other guys eq things..
> The person who stole my mace of power, and my white stole of mitra
> should burn in hell....
> Zifnab is right though it's my own fault when sharing castles and
> having to easy combos... 
> cough Aha! I found a TICK!
> I guess this proves the fact that Swedish people are naive and
> easily fooled...
> Dishonest ppl SUCK!
> *Depressed Jarel*
1. put a ! in front of your trigs
2. get rid of the tick trig anyway, it's silly.
3. pudding

-----------------

poster: Trigon
subject: >computer troubles
date: Sat Dec 22 21:31:11 2001

No, I wasn't angry at you, I was angry at some other people who were
acting like idiots and pissing me off earlier the day.  Your
computer problems was just kinda like a last straw thing and I just
called it a night.  plus my brother is home from school and sits
around and plays the ps2 he rented while I clean the friggin house,
so I'm not pleased with things atm.  Not your fault.

-----------------

poster: Faidra
subject: Snowy greetings from Finland :)
date: Tue Dec 25 11:25:16 2001

Hi all, I thought I'd mail all of my mud friends but then I realized
I can only remember what you were like, what letter your names
started with and so on. Many of you I do remember very well, but
it's been so long since I last played that I think this is better.
Anyway, I wanted to say hi to all of you, because many of you played
a big role in my life earlier. Ok now I can't remember what I just
typed, because my friends just interrupted me and since I'm using
telnet.. well, u know.
I wanted to thank you all for being such good friends to me, I still
remember you and think of you often :)  
I hope you all are good, take care :)

-Faids

-----------------

poster: Eponine
subject: contest results
date: Wed Dec 26 06:32:51 2001

OK everyone, I have the results of the last ultrasound showing what
the baby will be. Positive confirmation will come in about 3 weeks.
Little Eponine is...
A GIRL!!
Thank you to everyone who participated in the contest. 5000
gold has been transferred to all the participants with 
correct guesses :).

-----------------

poster: Blackthorne
subject: Trip #2
date: Wed Dec 26 11:22:36 2001

Alrighty, I'm off once again for another one of my wacky trips. I'll
be back soon so don't miss me too much. Thanks for everyone's
support of my big day (woo, 3 days to go and I'm nervous as all
hell) and thanks for listening to me when I had my heart broken.
Congrats to Eponine on her baby girl (Keep me informed, Ep). Take it
easy all and have a happy New Year.
-BT
P.S. I resolve to stay healer, so there :P

-----------------

poster: Xphere
subject: Bleh
date: Sat Dec 29 23:19:34 2001

 BTW, some people think i was taking credit from thrain for those
vampies.... I would like to apologize and say that thrain made the
vampires and i designed the area, but anyways, my apologizes...
happy new year!

-----------------

poster: Chewba
subject: Clan Recruiting Shirak_Dulak
date: Sun Dec 30 18:37:38 2001

Due to certain xp hoors who I will not mention and pissy little
clans such as tempest stealing our top hoors.
SD is recruiting young up and coming blasters.

Successful applicants must:

1). Be prepared to leave our clan at drop of a hat.

2) Preferably have access to a computer.

3) Bitch about anyone who isn't in the clan like a mutha.

For an appliaction form/interview mail or tell me.

Chewba 'KY' Lube.

Ps Any one who aint a blaster who fits into the above categories and
is interested feel free to enquire about joining.

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: FYI Njuubies...
date: Mon Dec 31 10:12:59 2001

Just a few things...
random2 and random are fun to make emotes with..
if you want to save your eq when you log off.. type keep 
listen to people who are higher in level than you.. dont be snotty..
they know what they are talking about
TALKING IN ALL CAPS DOES NOT GET YOU MORE ATTENTION.... it gets you
chat banned or nuked.
Pay attention when your in a party. Especially one hosted by
highbies who are helping/dragging you. A party is a group efforts..
make your effort.


*hopes a few people will add a couple things here also... hopefully
constructive things.."*

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >FYI Njuubies...
date: Mon Dec 31 15:14:59 2001

On Mon Dec 31 10:12:59 2001 Celine wrote post #742:
> Just a few things...
> random2 and random are fun to make emotes with..
> if you want to save your eq when you log off.. type keep 

The above is wrong.  Your equipment will be saved whether or not
you type keep item.  Keep stops you from accidently dropping/
selling/giving away stuff. It has nothing to do with saving.

> listen to people who are higher in level than you.. dont be snotty..
> they know what they are talking about
> TALKING IN ALL CAPS DOES NOT GET YOU MORE ATTENTION.... it gets you
> chat banned or nuked.

Doing it once or twice is not a problem.  Ignoring requests
to
stop, and continually doing it is a problem.  Odds are you wont
get nuked (although it depends on what you are saying i suppose).

> Pay attention when your in a party. Especially one hosted by
> highbies who are helping/dragging you. A party is a group efforts..
> make your effort.
> 
> 
> *hopes a few people will add a couple things here also... hopefully
> constructive things.."*

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >FYI Njuubies...
date: Tue Jan  1 05:36:08 2002

On Mon Dec 31 10:12:59 2001 Celine wrote post #742:
> Just a few things...
> random2 and random are fun to make emotes with..
> if you want to save your eq when you log off.. type keep 
> listen to people who are higher in level than you.. dont be snotty..
> they know what they are talking about
> TALKING IN ALL CAPS DOES NOT GET YOU MORE ATTENTION.... it gets you
> chat banned or nuked.
> Pay attention when your in a party. Especially one hosted by
> highbies who are helping/dragging you. A party is a group efforts..
> make your effort.
> 
> 
> *hopes a few people will add a couple things here also... hopefully
> constructive things.."*
Here's a constructive thing - "keep" does NOT save your eq when you
log off.  Nosave items will not save no matter what you do, and
save items will save as long as you don't drop them on the floor outside
a castle.  Just quit with them in your inventory and they will save.

What "keep" does is prevent you dropping, selling or giving
away an item.  This is very useful when selling stuff to shops.
You can unkeep an item or items if you want to give it/them
away (e.g. if you have sold them to another player).

-----------------

poster: Coal
subject: Njubbes
date: Tue Jan  1 05:51:17 2002

Oh to be a njubbe again...oh wait i still am. 
My question is why is this in news?...
Most njubbees i know don't read the news, and those that do 98.9% of
them -probably- know this already.
anyway there's my useless drivel and 2 pennies for your time.
-Coalpants

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: Njuubi post
date: Tue Jan  1 06:08:13 2002

Sorry about that with keep. Thank you for the correction though.

-----------------

poster: Rockman
subject: >Njubbes
date: Tue Jan  1 06:46:26 2002

does that mean i am no longer a newbie
dont just assume that newbie dont read the news
maybe if you people actaully didnt keep that sorta attitude
then maybe more newbie would be more vocal about what is going on
so celine rocks for at lest trying ya know
-Rocky

-----------------

poster: Chrono
subject: apologize
date: Wed Jan  2 06:30:42 2002

ok, listen..

im sorry to those i offended on alert, i should have worded what i
had said better: "rape is not always bad", what i had ment was the
word 'rape' not the action. nor did i say 'rape'(as in the action),
was good - as many of you took it.

also would like to mention, a way you could have went about this
instead of saying i hope you die, and calling me stupid, etc. you
could have said, "whats not good about rape!?" or somethin to that
affect, instead of jumping down my and others' throat, or just mine
- prolly was alone in this whole thing.

anyway, i should have worded myself better, and shouldnt have made
the stupid remark about likeing to be raped.

my whole point of saying rape isnt always bad - (the word 'rape') -
was just to agree with nightfall, that it has more than one
meaning.
nightfall and others*

also would like to comment on how much this mud is becomeing of what
some ppl come here to get away from - rl (note: i said some, not
all, nor most)
anyway, cant say sorry enuff, to those who hate me - for wording
what i ment wrong.
thanks for your time,
Chrono

-----------------

poster: Litho
subject: 3 Ladies
date: Fri Jan  4 13:32:25 2002

I just want to thank Ladyhawk,Athena, and Mirrim, for giving me good
conversations (from a motherly point of view).
I know, your not old Lh, so calm down =p, i just like to thank how
you guys care about me and i actually feel like a sister-ish kind of
love, whether it is text,emotional,physical,between us.
Thanks guys, and thanks for remembering my Bday Mirrim. :)

-----------------

poster: Litho
subject: Prophet
date: Mon Jan  7 07:18:59 2002

he is one cool newbie.

-----------------

poster: Fezzick
subject: 
date: Mon Jan  7 11:01:11 2002

 
Looking for Amestyn - anyone who may know her whereabouts or a means
of contacting outside of the mud would be greatly appreciated.
 
Just send me a mudmail or e-mail to finger info addy.
 
- Fezz, the bounty-hunter

-----------------

poster: Einar
subject: Looking for healer
date: Tue Jan  8 01:43:58 2002

Lost_Souls needs a healer
At least 7m worth, although +10m is preferrable
Must be willing to not reinc, despite everyone else in the clan
reincing contanstly (Okay, maybe just me, magius, and harnag, but we
reinc enough to make up for everyone else)
Also must be able to put up with annoying people, especially me
Ask me about special deals I can do for ya (i.e. paying your weekly gold)
Bleh, I'm outta ideas, Mail/Tell me if your interested.

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: Help..?
date: Wed Jan  9 05:32:44 2002

I need some computer help and it is beyond my knowledge of how to do this..
I am curious if it is possible to set a macro (right word) key to
come back to / log on to Zmud...? or Portal..?
Thanks for reading and hopefully the truth is out there..

-----------------

poster: Blaze
subject: Puuh
date: Tue Jan 15 05:14:32 2002

I've helped so many newbies since I started playing by giving them
awesome deals or dragging them, or in other ways - if any of you
actually read this, don't ask me for another thing, ever - since it
seems like I'm the only person around these days (There are few
exceptions) that seems to care about helping anyone else.  I'm
posting this because of a few people who I have helped in the past
and can't spare a goddamn coin when I'm down on my luck (completely
broke btw) - so any of you bigger players, ask me for favors if you
want/need them, but I'm done helping the small people, cause even
though I know how hard it is to be small, too many people have taken
and taken from me and told me to fuck off when they are bigger than
me and I need a hand.
Considering most of you will just post some dumb snude remark about
this, I'll just say the bullshit for you, "I posted this just so I
could whine a little."

-----------------

poster: Trance
subject: >Puuh
date: Tue Jan 15 12:21:43 2002


What ever happened to helping newbies for the sole purpose of making
their life a little easier?


-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: context
date: Tue Jan 15 17:17:40 2002

Newbies:
Rest assured that Blaze does not represent the majority of the mud.
Most of us like newbies fine and help when we can.
I see you all as potential future friends.
I love you.
love,
uno
p.s. love

-----------------

poster: Blaze
subject: Hrm.
date: Tue Jan 15 19:05:33 2002

Hrm....got pretty drunk last night, you can ignore my last post...I
get pissed off easy when I'm drunk...
Anyways.....I still do and will help newbies:P

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: >Hrm.
date: Tue Jan 15 21:35:27 2002

On Tue Jan 15 19:05:33 2002 Blaze wrote post #758:
> Hrm....got pretty drunk last night, you can ignore my last post...I
> get pissed off easy when I'm drunk...
> Anyways.....I still do and will help newbies:P
When your drunk is when you get pissed off enough to actually tel
people whats pissing you off. 
Works kinda like that for me anyway. 
But I do agree with your previous post. 
Those of you who are big/are getting big ect, dont forget those who
have helped you along the way. 
Try to humble yourself just a little bit and give back every now and then. 
I dont say I help newbies/people in general as much as blaze, but it
sure as hell makes it a lot more worthwhile when you know it's
appreciated.
And it's human nature for us not to appreciate something until we
dont have it. 
What do I mean by that? 
Try starting a newbie char for those who are big and have been for
years, and see how everyone ignores you and doesnt want to waste
their time with you. 
It's quite humbling, and I suggest you give it a try. 
Or you could just continue priding yourself for where you are at and
say you did it all yourself when someoen was holding your hand for
the majority of the time. 
Q the bitter even when he's not drunk.

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: >>Hrm.
date: Tue Jan 15 21:36:31 2002

On Tue Jan 15 21:35:27 2002 Quillz wrote post #759:
> On Tue Jan 15 19:05:33 2002 Blaze wrote post #758:
> > Hrm....got pretty drunk last night, you can ignore my last post...I
> > get pissed off easy when I'm drunk...
> > Anyways.....I still do and will help newbies:P
> When your drunk is when you get pissed off enough to actually tel
> people whats pissing you off. 
> Works kinda like that for me anyway. 
> But I do agree with your previous post. 
> Those of you who are big/are getting big ect, dont forget those who
> have helped you along the way. 
> Try to humble yourself just a little bit and give back every now and then. 
> I dont say I help newbies/people in general as much as blaze, but it
> sure as hell makes it a lot more worthwhile when you know it's
> appreciated.
> And it's human nature for us not to appreciate something until we
> dont have it. 
> What do I mean by that? 
> Try starting a newbie char for those who are big and have been for
> years, and see how everyone ignores you and doesnt want to waste
> their time with you. 
> It's quite humbling, and I suggest you give it a try. 
> Or you could just continue priding yourself for where you are at and
> say you did it all yourself when someoen was holding your hand for
> the majority of the time. 
> Q the bitter even when he's not drunk.
i love you
love,
uno

-----------------

poster: Chewba
subject: Clan Recruiting.
date: Tue Jan 15 23:42:44 2002

Shirak_Dulak's management is offering to the right mudders A once in
a lifetime oppurtunity.

New members of SD will get a free lifetime place in the luxurious
realm of my heart. 
Yes for 1 week only SD is reopening its ranks and giving away free lurve!

'Whats the catch?' I hear you say.

Well here's the great bit. You don't have to have massive worth. You
don't have to pay me gold every week. You details won't be passed on
to other companies with offers and promotions. All you have to do is
contact me through the usual channels if i like yeh ur in.

Have a Great Day!

Chewba 'smoother' Luber


++ To qualify for the 'lurve' promotion you must be female, rich,
attractive and willing to do that thing I like with the hosepipe,
baby oil and  feather duster.

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >context
date: Wed Jan 16 02:19:45 2002

On Tue Jan 15 17:17:40 2002 Uno wrote post #757:
> Newbies:
> Rest assured that Blaze does not represent the majority of the mud.
> Most of us like newbies fine and help when we can.
> I see you all as potential future friends.
> I love you.
> love,
> uno
> p.s. love
I LOOOOOOOVE You all
love,
sleet
p.s. even Uno

-----------------

poster: Yugo
subject: Great cartoon
date: Wed Jan 16 05:10:41 2002

for some cheap lafs goto:
www.counter-strike.dk/benders.asp
and scroll abit down to read some great cartoon
site is in danish but the cartoons are in eng.

Yugo

-----------------

poster: Cazhmere
subject: Are You Worthy?
date: Thu Jan 17 04:01:14 2002

 Citizens of Red Dragon,
Clan Tempest is seeking out a patient individual of at least 300M in worth.
You will need to reincarnate abjurer for clan exps and eq. If you
are willing to agree to this, then please mail responses to Malice,
Nax, and Malifix.
Thank you.

-----------------

poster: Elendor
subject: hrm
date: Thu Jan 17 05:37:49 2002

I find myself agreeing with blazes original post, to many ppl jsut use
ppl who aare willin to help other in this mud, i suppose thats like rl but
still its annoying as hell, i personally find myself less inclined to help
anyone since no one seems willing to do anything which doesnt directly
help out there chars in the game, which is V pissy

To oftne alot of ppl just use there own agrogance and selfishness as an excuse
to abuse ppl, especially if they are lower then there chars

I dont thin this post will get anything but slating of higher chars and some
pointless indignation of how they belive they are acting but hell try to play
a 2ndry low level char and see what you think


Elendor.

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: >hrm
date: Thu Jan 17 15:32:09 2002

On Thu Jan 17 05:37:49 2002 Elendor wrote post #765:
> I find myself agreeing with blazes original post, to many ppl jsut use
> ppl who aare willin to help other in this mud, i suppose thats like rl but
> still its annoying as hell, i personally find myself less inclined to help
> anyone since no one seems willing to do anything which doesnt directly
> help out there chars in the game, which is V pissy
> 
> To oftne alot of ppl just use there own agrogance and selfishness as an
excuse
> to abuse ppl, especially if they are lower then there chars
> 
> I dont thin this post will get anything but slating of higher chars and some
> pointless indignation of how they belive they are acting but hell try to
play
> a 2ndry low level char and see what you think
> 
> 
> Elendor.
Mi secondary si Muppet. He cuold kikc yuor aSS!
he si levle 15 adn hsa ornate sowrd, chian mail, arows...

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>hrm
date: Thu Jan 17 23:23:12 2002

On Thu Jan 17 15:32:09 2002 Uno wrote post #766:
> On Thu Jan 17 05:37:49 2002 Elendor wrote post #765:
> > I find myself agreeing with blazes original post, to many ppl jsut use
> > ppl who aare willin to help other in this mud, i suppose thats like rl but
> > still its annoying as hell, i personally find myself less inclined to help
> > anyone since no one seems willing to do anything which doesnt directly
> > help out there chars in the game, which is V pissy
> > 
> > To oftne alot of ppl just use there own agrogance and selfishness as an
> excuse
> > to abuse ppl, especially if they are lower then there chars
> > 
> > I dont thin this post will get anything but slating of higher chars and
some
> > pointless indignation of how they belive they are acting but hell try to
> play
> > a 2ndry low level char and see what you think
> > 
> > 
> > Elendor.
> Mi secondary si Muppet. He cuold kikc yuor aSS!
> he si levle 15 adn hsa ornate sowrd, chian mail, arows...
I love Muppet!

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: >Hrm.
date: Fri Jan 18 05:09:36 2002

Goonie monkey... sounded a bit off.... one suggestion? DONT DRINK
AND MUD!! imho its worse than drinking and driving..

-----------------

poster: Tektor
subject: Hi
date: Tue Jan 22 01:20:41 2002

I'm gone for awhile, and no i won't be on cause I'm using the
freezer and unless I'm Tektor I don't play so thats that. Thanks to
people who helped me out even when i turned around and screwed up
again. Sorry to those I whines too im just not a very positive
person lately.

-----------------

poster: Caliban
subject: Damn server
date: Wed Jan 23 09:21:39 2002

I wish to apologize to all that i was with earlier and suddenly 
bailed. My damn server had an outage in my area for a few hours
and there was nothing i could do but suck on it. Sorry guys.

-Cal

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: umm..
date: Fri Jan 25 19:18:36 2002

Ok... some people will think I am referring to them or to a particular event.
I am _not_.

Something that gets to me is the hypocrisy used by some, and i
emphasize the word some, highbies/midbies.
If a newbie were to talk about ther wrong topic on the wrong channel
they normally get flamed.. ignored.. any number of things.
Yet, others who have established characters can talk, for example,
on the parties channel for quite awhile about drugs and then about
sex.

Dunno... just some food for thought... some fat to chew... a few
penny's to make some sense with...

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >umm..
date: Fri Jan 25 19:25:05 2002

On Fri Jan 25 19:18:36 2002 Celine wrote post #771:
> Ok... some people will think I am referring to them or to a particular
event.
> I am _not_.
> 
> Something that gets to me is the hypocrisy used by some, and i
> emphasize the word some, highbies/midbies.
> If a newbie were to talk about ther wrong topic on the wrong channel
> they normally get flamed.. ignored.. any number of things.
> Yet, others who have established characters can talk, for example,
> on the parties channel for quite awhile about drugs and then about
> sex.
> 
> Dunno... just some food for thought... some fat to chew... a few
> penny's to make some sense with...
nah thats not hypocrisy, same people that yell at newbies to shut up
yell at midbies and highbies too.
And i am _NOT_ reffering to a particular event either. 
:)

-----------------

poster: Elendor
subject: umm..
date: Sat Jan 26 00:49:49 2002

What you say is completely right, however the newbies get flamed
by other players not wizards who seem on general principle not to
care to much about what happens on the channels

If you have a problem with the topics feel free to complain/flame
or ignore the ppl who waste thier time spammin these lines

I know i do :)


Elendor.

-----------------

poster: Spirum
subject: Whine
date: Sat Jan 26 23:49:02 2002

Didnt find any whine group, so i take i here. Why is the game
Lagging like hell as soon as online players reach 69+?
Is there a way to fix it? The mud need more money? Open for tp's
donations again, just for a short while maybe if that will help,

Spirum

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: >Whine
date: Sun Jan 27 01:28:42 2002

On Sat Jan 26 23:49:02 2002 Spirum wrote post #774:
> Didnt find any whine group, so i take i here. Why is the game
> Lagging like hell as soon as online players reach 69+?
> Is there a way to fix it? The mud need more money? Open for tp's
> donations again, just for a short while maybe if that will help,
> 
> Spirum

The mud host isn't the fastest computer in the world (500 MHz). Buying
a faster server, lets say a 1 GHz, might be able to scale the mud to
accept twice the number of players (probably less since lag also comes from
waiting on the harddisks etc). But if we ever want to support a decent
number of players, we will need to fix the code. You can't buy a machine
that will play RD with 500 players online.

With the current job marked looking a bit bleak, I am saving up money
for the future. So I am not likely to buy a new machine just now.

As long there isn't an easy way for me to receive money from people all
around the world, I am not going to bother accepting donations.

Khosan

-----------------

poster: Rockman
subject: >>Whine
date: Sun Jan 27 02:39:03 2002

what is people just starting showering you withmoney
that would be cool
my useless post for the day
-Rocky

-----------------

poster: Jomo
subject: Lag, etc.
date: Sun Jan 27 04:26:19 2002

I think part of the point of Khosan's post was that the mud
could handle more players if there were more exp.
adminly/wiz types that knew how to code and clean
it up a bit in some places.

I know Zif and others have been working very
long and hard to clean up some of the code 
over the years, but more help can always be
used.  My suggestion would be, if you really
want to help the mud (and feel like your 
sort of "played out") .. learn how to code
and volunteer to start learning how
to handle the more evil parts of the mudlib.

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >>Whine
date: Sun Jan 27 07:01:32 2002

On Sun Jan 27 01:28:42 2002 Khosan wrote post #775:
> On Sat Jan 26 23:49:02 2002 Spirum wrote post #774:
> > Didnt find any whine group, so i take i here. Why is the game
> > Lagging like hell as soon as online players reach 69+?
> > Is there a way to fix it? The mud need more money? Open for tp's
> > donations again, just for a short while maybe if that will help,
> > 
> > Spirum
> 
> The mud host isn't the fastest computer in the world (500 MHz). Buying
> a faster server, lets say a 1 GHz, might be able to scale the mud to
> accept twice the number of players (probably less since lag also comes from
> waiting on the harddisks etc). But if we ever want to support a decent
> number of players, we will need to fix the code. You can't buy a machine
> that will play RD with 500 players online.
> 
> With the current job marked looking a bit bleak, I am saving up money
> for the future. So I am not likely to buy a new machine just now.
> 
> As long there isn't an easy way for me to receive money from people all
> around the world, I am not going to bother accepting donations.
> 
> Khosan
My offer of a free 700MHz SlotA Athlon CPU stands.  That would help 
a bit and you should be able to just swap the CPUs over, assuming
you can alter the clock multipler from your BIOS or via switches (the
CPU I'm offering is unlocked).

-----------------

poster: Hierokliff
subject: >>Whine
date: Sun Jan 27 17:12:20 2002

On Sun Jan 27 01:28:42 2002 Khosan wrote post #775:
> On Sat Jan 26 23:49:02 2002 Spirum wrote post #774:
> > Didnt find any whine group, so i take i here. Why is the game
> > Lagging like hell as soon as online players reach 69+?
> > Is there a way to fix it? The mud need more money? Open for tp's
> > donations again, just for a short while maybe if that will help,
> > 
> > Spirum
> 
> The mud host isn't the fastest computer in the world (500 MHz). Buying
> a faster server, lets say a 1 GHz, might be able to scale the mud to
> accept twice the number of players (probably less since lag also comes from
> waiting on the harddisks etc). But if we ever want to support a decent
> number of players, we will need to fix the code. You can't buy a machine
> that will play RD with 500 players online.
> 
> With the current job marked looking a bit bleak, I am saving up money
> for the future. So I am not likely to buy a new machine just now.
> 
> As long there isn't an easy way for me to receive money from people all
> around the world, I am not going to bother accepting donations.
> 
> Khosan
Just an idea about donations...
(dont hang yourself up on the numbers...)
an idea would be that instead of getting tps for donations, each
clan can donate 250usd to get the basic stronghold, later this
will cost either 500tps from sacced eq or 250m gold. Keeping track
on 10x250usd donations from 10 clans cant be a total pain in the
ass. And i think 2.5k usd would be enough to get the mud a computer
that would last for 2-3 years with increasing amount of players.

Now the question is if there are willing clans out there to collect
and send in 250usd for the mud and if its enough...now i know 
strongholds are a joke since its been talking about it for eons
and its still not here...but still...

Anyway the point was to reduce the amount of donations and increase
the amount each time to make it easier...

//Hierokliff

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>Whine
date: Sun Jan 27 17:13:57 2002

On Sun Jan 27 17:12:20 2002 Hierokliff wrote post #779:
> On Sun Jan 27 01:28:42 2002 Khosan wrote post #775:
> > On Sat Jan 26 23:49:02 2002 Spirum wrote post #774:
> > > Didnt find any whine group, so i take i here. Why is the game
> > > Lagging like hell as soon as online players reach 69+?
> > > Is there a way to fix it? The mud need more money? Open for tp's
> > > donations again, just for a short while maybe if that will help,
> > > 
> > > Spirum
> > 
> > The mud host isn't the fastest computer in the world (500 MHz). Buying
> > a faster server, lets say a 1 GHz, might be able to scale the mud to
> > accept twice the number of players (probably less since lag also comes
from
> > waiting on the harddisks etc). But if we ever want to support a decent
> > number of players, we will need to fix the code. You can't buy a machine
> > that will play RD with 500 players online.
> > 
> > With the current job marked looking a bit bleak, I am saving up money
> > for the future. So I am not likely to buy a new machine just now.
> > 
> > As long there isn't an easy way for me to receive money from people all
> > around the world, I am not going to bother accepting donations.
> > 
> > Khosan
> Just an idea about donations...
> (dont hang yourself up on the numbers...)
> an idea would be that instead of getting tps for donations, each
> clan can donate 250usd to get the basic stronghold, later this
> will cost either 500tps from sacced eq or 250m gold. Keeping track
> on 10x250usd donations from 10 clans cant be a total pain in the
> ass. And i think 2.5k usd would be enough to get the mud a computer
> that would last for 2-3 years with increasing amount of players.
> 
> Now the question is if there are willing clans out there to collect
> and send in 250usd for the mud and if its enough...now i know 
> strongholds are a joke since its been talking about it for eons
> and its still not here...but still...
> 
> Anyway the point was to reduce the amount of donations and increase
> the amount each time to make it easier...
> 
> //Hierokliff
sleet
That sounds resonable

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Whine
date: Sun Jan 27 18:50:58 2002

On Sat Jan 26 23:49:02 2002 Spirum wrote post #774:
> Didnt find any whine group, so i take i here. Why is the game
> Lagging like hell as soon as online players reach 69+?
> Is there a way to fix it? The mud need more money? Open for tp's
> donations again, just for a short while maybe if that will help,
> 
> Spirum
its code related

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>>>Whine
date: Sun Jan 27 18:54:06 2002

On Sun Jan 27 17:13:57 2002 Sleet wrote post #780:
> On Sun Jan 27 17:12:20 2002 Hierokliff wrote post #779:
> > On Sun Jan 27 01:28:42 2002 Khosan wrote post #775:
> > > On Sat Jan 26 23:49:02 2002 Spirum wrote post #774:
> > > > Didnt find any whine group, so i take i here. Why is the game
> > > > Lagging like hell as soon as online players reach 69+?
> > > > Is there a way to fix it? The mud need more money? Open for tp's
> > > > donations again, just for a short while maybe if that will help,
> > > > 
> > > > Spirum
> > > 
> > > The mud host isn't the fastest computer in the world (500 MHz). Buying
> > > a faster server, lets say a 1 GHz, might be able to scale the mud to
> > > accept twice the number of players (probably less since lag also comes
> from
> > > waiting on the harddisks etc). But if we ever want to support a decent
> > > number of players, we will need to fix the code. You can't buy a machine
> > > that will play RD with 500 players online.
> > > 
> > > With the current job marked looking a bit bleak, I am saving up money
> > > for the future. So I am not likely to buy a new machine just now.
> > > 
> > > As long there isn't an easy way for me to receive money from people all
> > > around the world, I am not going to bother accepting donations.
> > > 
> > > Khosan
> > Just an idea about donations...
> > (dont hang yourself up on the numbers...)
> > an idea would be that instead of getting tps for donations, each
> > clan can donate 250usd to get the basic stronghold, later this
> > will cost either 500tps from sacced eq or 250m gold. Keeping track
> > on 10x250usd donations from 10 clans cant be a total pain in the
> > ass. And i think 2.5k usd would be enough to get the mud a computer
> > that would last for 2-3 years with increasing amount of players.
> > 
> > Now the question is if there are willing clans out there to collect
> > and send in 250usd for the mud and if its enough...now i know 
> > strongholds are a joke since its been talking about it for eons
> > and its still not here...but still...
> > 
> > Anyway the point was to reduce the amount of donations and increase
> > the amount each time to make it easier...
> > 
> > //Hierokliff
> sleet
> That sounds resonable
cough if i cant fix the code in the game (due to time)
who is going to write these strongholds.


BTW strongholds still suffer the same problem.. how to get you 
to move out of a castle into a stronghold, without removing 
castles.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: lag
date: Sun Jan 27 18:57:58 2002

For what its worth, i have paid fairly close attention to the
amount of lag the mud has been having over the last few months.

I have managed to find a major portion of those things that
were causing us to lag (I still have the one that happens approx 
every 15 minutes that I cannot find).

That being said, there are 3 areas that are known problem
points..

1)  combat
2)  movement
3)  the input system (your shell)

All three are very complicated pieces of code (probably oversly so)
and are not easy to fix/change without massive amounts of
testing.

And again I have pulled 7-8 things out of the combat code
over the past few months that were having a fairly large affect
on the lagging seen with lots of peopel in combat.  Obviously
not fixed, but it has gotten better.  I am afraid with not
many active people willing to write code, the changes are slow
in coming.

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: >>>Whine
date: Mon Jan 28 01:24:29 2002

On Sun Jan 27 17:12:20 2002 Hierokliff wrote post #779:
> On Sun Jan 27 01:28:42 2002 Khosan wrote post #775:
> > On Sat Jan 26 23:49:02 2002 Spirum wrote post #774:
> > > Didnt find any whine group, so i take i here. Why is the game
> > > Lagging like hell as soon as online players reach 69+?
> > > Is there a way to fix it? The mud need more money? Open for tp's
> > > donations again, just for a short while maybe if that will help,
> > > 
> > > Spirum
> > 
> > The mud host isn't the fastest computer in the world (500 MHz). Buying
> > a faster server, lets say a 1 GHz, might be able to scale the mud to
> > accept twice the number of players (probably less since lag also comes
from
> > waiting on the harddisks etc). But if we ever want to support a decent
> > number of players, we will need to fix the code. You can't buy a machine
> > that will play RD with 500 players online.
> > 
> > With the current job marked looking a bit bleak, I am saving up money
> > for the future. So I am not likely to buy a new machine just now.
> > 
> > As long there isn't an easy way for me to receive money from people all
> > around the world, I am not going to bother accepting donations.
> > 
> > Khosan
> Just an idea about donations...
> (dont hang yourself up on the numbers...)
> an idea would be that instead of getting tps for donations, each
> clan can donate 250usd to get the basic stronghold, later this
> will cost either 500tps from sacced eq or 250m gold. Keeping track
> on 10x250usd donations from 10 clans cant be a total pain in the
> ass. And i think 2.5k usd would be enough to get the mud a computer
> that would last for 2-3 years with increasing amount of players.
> 
> Now the question is if there are willing clans out there to collect
> and send in 250usd for the mud and if its enough...now i know 
> strongholds are a joke since its been talking about it for eons
> and its still not here...but still...
> 
> Anyway the point was to reduce the amount of donations and increase
> the amount each time to make it easier...
> 
> //Hierokliff

That wasn't the point. Last time I checked there was no affordable
way for me to receive money, except from having people put money in
an envelope and mail it - which isn't the smartest thing to do.

Wire transfers costs an arm and a leg. Internet systems like paypal are
US centric (you need a US bank account). VISA is rather expensive on
startup and cost money each month to maintain.

And when I say donations, I mean _donations_. You don't get anything in
return for donations except the honor.

Khosan

-----------------

poster: Nightfall
subject: >>>>Whine
date: Mon Jan 28 02:40:39 2002


   Heh.  Real donations.  That sure shut up a few.
 
  -NF
 

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: did I break?
date: Mon Jan 28 02:49:33 2002

scream  TOCK
acidic ray                          741     0     100        100
virulent strike                    1057     0     100        100
electrocution                       965     0     100        100
hypothermia                         239     1      99        100
suffocating force                   986     0     100        100
venomous bite                     12343    13      99        100
killing plague                        0     1       0          5

flame strike                        383     0     100        100



All but 1 to 3 of the fails on venomous bite happened today.  Was
something changed? or did I just break?
Art

-----------------

poster: Trance
subject: >did I break?
date: Mon Jan 28 02:51:48 2002

On Mon Jan 28 02:49:33 2002 Artea wrote post #786:
> scream  TOCK
> acidic ray                          741     0     100        100
> virulent strike                    1057     0     100        100
> electrocution                       965     0     100        100
> hypothermia                         239     1      99        100
> suffocating force                   986     0     100        100
> venomous bite                     12343    13      99        100
> killing plague                        0     1       0          5
> 
> flame strike                        383     0     100        100
> 
> 
> 
> All but 1 to 3 of the fails on venomous bite happened today.  Was
> something changed? or did I just break?
> Art

1) a 100% spell doesnt mean it will work 100% of the time, as admin
have said often enough
2) what were you killing? Some mobs are a little overzealous with
the 'forget' spell, which can cause just that kind of problem if you
dont watch carefully.

Hope this helps a little.


-----------------

poster: Chrono
subject: >did i break?
date: Mon Jan 28 02:53:03 2002

no, you probably were forgot, and were still casting. think its a
bug, that has been reported b4.

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: did I break?
date: Mon Jan 28 03:02:13 2002

I know skills/spells can fail at 100%, the point is i had 4 over a
span of months, then 10+ today (and counting).  I was not forgot,
and was killing the same mobs i've always killed.
Art

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >did I break?
date: Mon Jan 28 06:03:34 2002

On Mon Jan 28 03:02:13 2002 Artea wrote post #789:
> I know skills/spells can fail at 100%, the point is i had 4 over a
> span of months, then 10+ today (and counting).  I was not forgot,
> and was killing the same mobs i've always killed.
> Art

Shit happens.

-----------------

poster: Erec
subject: >>did I break?
date: Mon Jan 28 06:04:57 2002

Yes, shit happens, but stuff is also sometimes broken.  I've noticed 
recently throw knife keeps trying to throw even though you're 
forgotten - sucks to have been me, yes, but it is still a bug.

     -erec

-----------------

poster: Kresselak
subject: >Did I break? 
date: Mon Jan 28 09:15:19 2002

Yes, it happened something bad to venomous bite and keeps happening.
Artea was right and Trance,Chrono,Wildchild and Erec are not.For
some weird reason my venomous bite fails like 1 time for every 10-20
chants and is 95% studied and 90% casting so maybe it could be a
bug.

-----------------

poster: Trance
subject: >>Did I break? 
date: Mon Jan 28 09:18:04 2002

On Mon Jan 28 09:15:19 2002 Kresselak wrote post #792:
> Yes, it happened something bad to venomous bite and keeps happening.
> Artea was right and Trance,Chrono,Wildchild and Erec are not.For
> some weird reason my venomous bite fails like 1 time for every 10-20
> chants and is 95% studied and 90% casting so maybe it could be a
> bug.

Note: What I said was the words of the admin themselves, not from
me. And I'm pretty sure that the people who coded the spells will
know them better than you would, seeing as they actually made it.

Have a good day.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>Did I break? 
date: Mon Jan 28 13:59:19 2002

On Mon Jan 28 09:15:19 2002 Kresselak wrote post #792:
> Yes, it happened something bad to venomous bite and keeps happening.
> Artea was right and Trance,Chrono,Wildchild and Erec are not.For
> some weird reason my venomous bite fails like 1 time for every 10-20
> chants and is 95% studied and 90% casting so maybe it could be a
> bug.
Spells have not changed in any manner for a long time.

This particular spell has not changed since April of 2001
694        Apr 10 09:30:10 2001 venomous_bite.c

if the inherit for hte spell had changed others would be bugging
too.  Going to have a hard time proving its a bug when it hasnt 
changed.

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>Did I break? 
date: Mon Jan 28 15:30:19 2002

i really doubt your spell failing is a bug
-lu

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: >>did I break?
date: Tue Jan 29 00:21:28 2002

On Mon Jan 28 06:03:34 2002 Wildchild wrote post #790:
> On Mon Jan 28 03:02:13 2002 Artea wrote post #789:
> > I know skills/spells can fail at 100%, the point is i had 4 over a
> > span of months, then 10+ today (and counting).  I was not forgot,
> > and was killing the same mobs i've always killed.
> > Art
> 
> Shit happens.
roflmao.  
WC's words of wisdom. 

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >>>Did I break? 
date: Tue Jan 29 03:40:02 2002

On Mon Jan 28 15:30:19 2002 Lu wrote post #795:
> i really doubt your spell failing is a bug
> -lu
He was JUST mentioning it and asking for any ideas/help ... 10000
morals saying they don't "think" it is this or that doesn't help
anything or one :P

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >>>did I break?
date: Tue Jan 29 05:37:34 2002

On Tue Jan 29 00:21:28 2002 Quillz wrote post #796:
> On Mon Jan 28 06:03:34 2002 Wildchild wrote post #790:
> > On Mon Jan 28 03:02:13 2002 Artea wrote post #789:
> > > I know skills/spells can fail at 100%, the point is i had 4 over a
> > > span of months, then 10+ today (and counting).  I was not forgot,
> > > and was killing the same mobs i've always killed.
> > > Art
> > 
> > Shit happens.
> roflmao.  
> WC's words of wisdom. 
'
Well, what do you expect? The world loves a bastard :)

-WC

ps: I'm still not wrong, atleast yet (since Zif has yet to determine
any real bug)

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: >>Did I break? 
date: Tue Jan 29 09:37:47 2002

On Mon Jan 28 09:15:19 2002 Kresselak wrote post #792:
> Yes, it happened something bad to venomous bite and keeps happening.
> Artea was right and Trance,Chrono,Wildchild and Erec are not.For
> some weird reason my venomous bite fails like 1 time for every 10-20
> chants and is 95% studied and 90% casting so maybe it could be a
> bug.
Hrm, according to my math, 1 for 20 is 95%...and I quote Qtip: "I'll
be damned!"

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: Ungrateful Bastads
date: Tue Jan 29 09:42:16 2002

I've noticed something that somewhat pertains to an earlier
conversation here, and I am ranting now.
What has this mud become? Are people no longer willing to help others?
For example, tonight I tried to make a party to kill a very small eq
mob to get a friend a piece of equipment.
When I found out it would take me quite sometime solo, I asked for help
I was SHOCKED to see the responses I got, most of them centered around:
"How does this help me?"
Selfish...plain and simple.
Have we all forgotten what it was like to maybe reinc into a new
guild and have no eq...and the help we have recieved from others?
I know for a fact people help me all the time, and I dont forget it.
I repay it by helping others
For example, skitzo has dragged me numerous times for a small share
of xp to help me get the level I needed
Tonight it was only him and Hymn(wow say that fast..hymn him hymn
him) who helped in the party, and we dropped the mob quite fast.
Thanks to you guys.
I frankly would like to see more help for other people, and that we
lose this selfish attitude
Flame away,
Bluemoon

-----------------

poster: Chrono
subject: hmm
date: Tue Jan 29 09:46:57 2002

assuming this post is directed towards me..well, i have xp on hand,
and i wouldnt have minded helping out, if i didnt, and if you'd have
asked for prots, i would have most certainly given them to you, but
you didnt, you said, 'come vuln this for us'.
anyway, happy birthday.

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: >hmm
date: Tue Jan 29 09:49:28 2002

On Tue Jan 29 09:46:57 2002 Chrono wrote post #801:
> assuming this post is directed towards me..well, i have xp on hand,
> and i wouldnt have minded helping out, if i didnt, and if you'd have
> asked for prots, i would have most certainly given them to you, but
> you didnt, you said, 'come vuln this for us'.
> anyway, happy birthday.
No this wasnt directed at you chrono, I asked a few people and many
of the same responses
Bluenuggs

-----------------

poster: Jomo
subject: >>hmm
date: Tue Jan 29 18:24:25 2002

Strange, I had a similiar conversation, but from a different
angle.

The basic jist of the conversation was:

Jomo: no one has that kind of money.
Player1: The people we normally party with customarily have 20m+
Jomo: Why don't I have 20m+? I've played ALOT, do I just suck?
Player2: Your not in a position to get helped by anyone, and as 
we all know, newbies always seem to dice first.

In the above conversation "newbies" was used broadly (probably
should be translated to midbies, but you get the idea.

Thus, if I'm short of temper sometimes towards people 
asking me to do eq for x player so that they 
can get a complete midbie set... 

Sure, maybe I'm being selfish or something,
but I've been known to be altruistic sometimes.

(Oh by the way, I wasn't one of the people involved in the orginal post)

-----------------

poster: Miciaih
subject: spam
date: Tue Jan 29 21:47:19 2002

hrm i just like to be crabby but, heh, uno spams on nearly all
channels(not counting when the wiz did it before that) and i type
something for more than 1 line long and i get bitched at, wtf? heh
are you guys a bunch of hypocrits? 
seems so to me, but hey i guess thats how it is here everybody can
be hypocrits, save for a select few.
   -my dispassionate beliefs
      miciaih pratt

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >spam
date: Tue Jan 29 21:47:57 2002

On Tue Jan 29 21:47:19 2002 Miciaih wrote post #804:
> hrm i just like to be crabby but, heh, uno spams on nearly all
> channels(not counting when the wiz did it before that) and i type
> something for more than 1 line long and i get bitched at, wtf? heh
> are you guys a bunch of hypocrits? 
> seems so to me, but hey i guess thats how it is here everybody can
> be hypocrits, save for a select few.
>    -my dispassionate beliefs
>       miciaih pratt

it wasnt uno.

And you were an idiot long before you typed that one llong line

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>hmm
date: Wed Jan 30 02:15:56 2002

On Tue Jan 29 09:49:28 2002 Bluemoon wrote post #802:
> On Tue Jan 29 09:46:57 2002 Chrono wrote post #801:
> > assuming this post is directed towards me..well, i have xp on hand,
> > and i wouldnt have minded helping out, if i didnt, and if you'd have
> > asked for prots, i would have most certainly given them to you, but
> > you didnt, you said, 'come vuln this for us'.
> > anyway, happy birthday.
> No this wasnt directed at you chrono, I asked a few people and many
> of the same responses
> Bluenuggs
sleet
you didnt ask me.. no one ever asks me! im angry and jelous and crying

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: >>>hmm
date: Wed Jan 30 02:23:55 2002

On Tue Jan 29 18:24:25 2002 Jomo wrote post #803:
> Strange, I had a similiar conversation, but from a different
> angle.
> 
> The basic jist of the conversation was:
> 
> Jomo: no one has that kind of money.
> Player1: The people we normally party with customarily have 20m+
> Jomo: Why don't I have 20m+? I've played ALOT, do I just suck?
> Player2: Your not in a position to get helped by anyone, and as 
> we all know, newbies always seem to dice first.
> 
> In the above conversation "newbies" was used broadly (probably
> should be translated to midbies, but you get the idea.
> 
> Thus, if I'm short of temper sometimes towards people 
> asking me to do eq for x player so that they 
> can get a complete midbie set... 
> 
> Sure, maybe I'm being selfish or something,
> but I've been known to be altruistic sometimes.
> 
> (Oh by the way, I wasn't one of the people involved in the orginal post)


I see your point Jomo, but here I was helping a friend get a black
ring, its not a full midbie set, etc...thats a whole different story
=)
Bluenuggs

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: >>>hmm
date: Wed Jan 30 02:24:16 2002

On Wed Jan 30 02:15:56 2002 Sleet wrote post #806:
> On Tue Jan 29 09:49:28 2002 Bluemoon wrote post #802:
> > On Tue Jan 29 09:46:57 2002 Chrono wrote post #801:
> > > assuming this post is directed towards me..well, i have xp on hand,
> > > and i wouldnt have minded helping out, if i didnt, and if you'd have
> > > asked for prots, i would have most certainly given them to you, but
> > > you didnt, you said, 'come vuln this for us'.
> > > anyway, happy birthday.
> > No this wasnt directed at you chrono, I asked a few people and many
> > of the same responses
> > Bluenuggs
> sleet
> you didnt ask me.. no one ever asks me! im angry and jelous and crying
Im sorry sleet, help me kill stuffs sometime!!!

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>>hmm
date: Wed Jan 30 02:25:17 2002

ok! maybe I WILL!!!!

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: >>>>>hmm
date: Wed Jan 30 02:25:43 2002

On Wed Jan 30 02:25:17 2002 Sleet wrote post #809:
> ok! maybe I WILL!!!!
Hell yeah, to the newbie eq mobs! ;)

-----------------

poster: Tantrum
subject: Zif
date: Wed Jan 30 02:32:43 2002

i think the appropriate phrase is "BOOM BABY!"

Tantrum gives Zifnab a High-5!

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: Girls are Evil
date: Wed Jan 30 06:35:17 2002

Mathmatic proof that girls are evil.
http://darkpark.com/gfx/GirlsEvil.jpgdarkpark.com/gfx/GirlsEvil.jpg

-----------------

poster: Javier
subject: Helpful reminder to newbies...
date: Wed Jan 30 12:29:20 2002

A quick note to newbies:
Asking a healer 14 times for a dheal followed by multiple ????!!!!!
will not help your cause :) I know healing is a long slow process,
but sometimes you just need to do it on your own. 

Tithing, and then asking for a heal will also not help your cause,
more often then not you'll loose your tithe. 
Javi
*8

-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: >spam
date: Wed Jan 30 13:55:09 2002

On Tue Jan 29 21:47:19 2002 Miciaih wrote post #804:
> hrm i just like to be crabby but, heh, uno spams on nearly all
> channels(not counting when the wiz did it before that) and i type
> something for more than 1 line long and i get bitched at, wtf? heh
> are you guys a bunch of hypocrits? 
> seems so to me, but hey i guess thats how it is here everybody can
> be hypocrits, save for a select few.
>    -my dispassionate beliefs
>       miciaih pratt

Its not hypocrisy. We just don't particularly care to hear _you_.
Sounds pretty consistant.

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >spam
date: Wed Jan 30 15:24:55 2002

uno didnt spam the same channel
-lu


-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >>>>Did I break? 
date: Wed Jan 30 20:31:34 2002

On Tue Jan 29 03:40:02 2002 Arkangyle wrote post #797:
> On Mon Jan 28 15:30:19 2002 Lu wrote post #795:
> > i really doubt your spell failing is a bug
> > -lu
> He was JUST mentioning it and asking for any ideas/help ... 10000
> morals saying they don't "think" it is this or that doesn't help
> anything or one :P
amen.

-----------------

poster: Trigon
subject: >Helpful reminder to newbies...
date: Wed Jan 30 22:00:14 2002

On Wed Jan 30 12:29:20 2002 Javier wrote post #813:
> A quick note to newbies:
> Asking a healer 14 times for a dheal followed by multiple ????!!!!!
> will not help your cause :) I know healing is a long slow process,
> but sometimes you just need to do it on your own. 
> 
> Tithing, and then asking for a heal will also not help your cause,
> more often then not you'll loose your tithe. 
> Javi
> *8
Wordup on that, plus it's a good idea to type all parties and see if
the person is in a party before you do 10 send tell healer dheal???

-----------------

poster: Smee
subject: >>Helpful reminder to newbies...
date: Wed Jan 30 22:00:27 2002

On Wed Jan 30 22:00:14 2002 Trigon wrote post #817:
> On Wed Jan 30 12:29:20 2002 Javier wrote post #813:
> > A quick note to newbies:
> > Asking a healer 14 times for a dheal followed by multiple ????!!!!!
> > will not help your cause :) I know healing is a long slow process,
> > but sometimes you just need to do it on your own. 
> > 
> > Tithing, and then asking for a heal will also not help your cause,
> > more often then not you'll loose your tithe. 
> > Javi
> > *8
> Wordup on that, plus it's a good idea to type all parties and see if
> the person is in a party before you do 10 send tell healer dheal???

Sir

-----------------

poster: Chewba
subject: >Ungrateful Bastads
date: Thu Jan 31 00:45:45 2002

I'll never help any one ever Bluemoon. You are completely wrong.
I've lost count of the number of times I've not helped people but I
tell you what... The feeling of euphoria when I see someone just
above me in the plaque dieing or messing up their reinc .... makes
my heart leap.
Get Real Bluemoon.

This is not a game its WAR!!!

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: >>Ungrateful Bastads
date: Thu Jan 31 03:45:08 2002

On Thu Jan 31 00:45:45 2002 Chewba wrote post #819:
> I'll never help any one ever Bluemoon. You are completely wrong.
> I've lost count of the number of times I've not helped people but I
> tell you what... The feeling of euphoria when I see someone just
> above me in the plaque dieing or messing up their reinc .... makes
> my heart leap.
> Get Real Bluemoon.
> 
> This is not a game its WAR!!!
Dont be gay. 
It's a game.
Q

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: emote
date: Thu Jan 31 08:11:32 2002

peace - You hold your fingers out in a peace sign.
peace LIV - You show the peace sign to LI"V.


please... i beg you.

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: >>>Ungrateful Bastads
date: Thu Jan 31 19:08:49 2002

On Thu Jan 31 03:45:08 2002 Quillz wrote post #820:
> On Thu Jan 31 00:45:45 2002 Chewba wrote post #819:
> > I'll never help any one ever Bluemoon. You are completely wrong.
> > I've lost count of the number of times I've not helped people but I
> > tell you what... The feeling of euphoria when I see someone just
> > above me in the plaque dieing or messing up their reinc .... makes
> > my heart leap.
> > Get Real Bluemoon.
> > 
> > This is not a game its WAR!!!
> Dont be gay. 
> It's a game.
> Q
The sarcasm of that post is uncanning chewba.

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: TADA!!
date: Fri Feb  1 05:54:13 2002

cf
Not that too many of you care.. but some do...

And most have already figured it out.. or guessed it at one time or another.
I'm not a girl.. I have no vagina and no boobs.

ITS A MAN BABY!!

Hate me, love me, dont change your opinion of me for it.

Reasoning behind female name... Wanted to test a theory i had.
Theory that femmes get treated better than mels.

I was right! No big suprise really.. but you know how it is..
"Curiousity killed the cat.... satisfaction brought it back.


And while I am revealing things.. might as well reveal this too... I
was previously known as Wik.
Again, some will care, some wont. shouldnt be reading this far if
you didnt care anyways.

Peace all... 

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >>Helpful reminder to newbies...
date: Fri Feb  1 07:34:42 2002

On Wed Jan 30 22:00:14 2002 Trigon wrote post #817:
> On Wed Jan 30 12:29:20 2002 Javier wrote post #813:
> > A quick note to newbies:
> > Asking a healer 14 times for a dheal followed by multiple ????!!!!!
> > will not help your cause :) I know healing is a long slow process,
> > but sometimes you just need to do it on your own. 
> > 
> > Tithing, and then asking for a heal will also not help your cause,
> > more often then not you'll loose your tithe. 
> > Javi
> > *8
> Wordup on that, plus it's a good idea to type all parties and see if
> the person is in a party before you do 10 send tell healer dheal???
and who did that?

-----------------

poster: Chrono
subject: hmm
date: Fri Feb  1 07:39:27 2002

the ??????? and the !!!!!! are annoying, true, why not just tell the
newb "look i'm busy, no more dheals for now"

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: venomous bite
date: Fri Feb  1 17:42:09 2002

Just wanted to add that other people have been having the same
problems I had with venomous bite suddenly failing like thats its
job.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >venomous bite
date: Fri Feb  1 17:51:06 2002

On Fri Feb  1 17:42:09 2002 Artea wrote post #826:
> Just wanted to add that other people have been having the same
> problems I had with venomous bite suddenly failing like thats its
> job.


please show proof of it.

the spell does nothign special on its own, it uses the same 
code that all evoker spells do, so that being said if one
is having a problem, all will.

Next...


Looking at the success rate of the 3 people with the spell on 
right now, 2 of 3 are casting at a higher percent than trained, 
and that person has it at 100%, and is casting at 98% (typical
of a 100% spell).

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: potions
date: Sat Feb  2 02:01:36 2002

Well the skinny on Zif's change - 
Mobs throw a higher % back than they used to - about 10-15% more
Throwbacks hurt more - I used to be able to survive 13 - and 10 kills now

My once lucrative kill area is now a death trap - and no it was not beholders
they always have a hideous tune

Thx for the downgrade Zif, just what we wanted


Jaws

-----------------

poster: Nightfall
subject: >potions
date: Sat Feb  2 02:04:44 2002

On Sat Feb  2 02:01:36 2002 Jaws wrote post #828:
> Well the skinny on Zif's change - 
> Mobs throw a higher % back than they used to - about 10-15% more
> Throwbacks hurt more - I used to be able to survive 13 - and 10 kills now
> 
> My once lucrative kill area is now a death trap - and no it was not
beholders
> they always have a hideous tune
> 
> Thx for the downgrade Zif, just what we wanted
> 
> 
> Jaws

  How does 13 -> 10 = lucrative kill area -> death trap.  Sounds like
you may be too upset to post rationally. 
  
  -NF


-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: >>potions
date: Sat Feb  2 02:10:07 2002

On Sat Feb  2 02:04:44 2002 Nightfall wrote post #829:
> On Sat Feb  2 02:01:36 2002 Jaws wrote post #828:
> > Well the skinny on Zif's change - 
> > Mobs throw a higher % back than they used to - about 10-15% more
> > Throwbacks hurt more - I used to be able to survive 13 - and 10 kills now
> > 
> > My once lucrative kill area is now a death trap - and no it was not
> beholders
> > they always have a hideous tune
> > 
> > Thx for the downgrade Zif, just what we wanted
> > 
> > 
> > Jaws
> 
>   How does 13 -> 10 = lucrative kill area -> death trap.  Sounds like
> you may be too upset to post rationally. 
>   
>   -NF
> 
And you are poor in comprehension

Read it again and think

TFM
GT
the area was ONCE lucrative - as in used to be - when the monsters
tossed 10-15% LESS potions back and I COULD survive 13

NOW I can only live through 10 and the monsters NOW throw MORE back

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Trance
subject: >>>potions
date: Sat Feb  2 02:14:57 2002

On Sat Feb  2 02:10:07 2002 Jaws wrote post #830:
> On Sat Feb  2 02:04:44 2002 Nightfall wrote post #829:
> > On Sat Feb  2 02:01:36 2002 Jaws wrote post #828:
> > > Well the skinny on Zif's change - 
> > > Mobs throw a higher % back than they used to - about 10-15% more
> > > Throwbacks hurt more - I used to be able to survive 13 - and 10 kills
now
> > > 
> > > My once lucrative kill area is now a death trap - and no it was not
> > beholders
> > > they always have a hideous tune
> > > 
> > > Thx for the downgrade Zif, just what we wanted
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Jaws
> > 
> >   How does 13 -> 10 = lucrative kill area -> death trap.  Sounds like
> > you may be too upset to post rationally. 
> >   
> >   -NF
> > 
> And you are poor in comprehension
> 
> Read it again and think
> 
> TFM
> GT
> the area was ONCE lucrative - as in used to be - when the monsters
> tossed 10-15% LESS potions back and I COULD survive 13
> 
> NOW I can only live through 10 and the monsters NOW throw MORE back
> 
> Jaws

When you keep in mind that 100m worthed cauldron mages used to be
able to pull a 25k/minute rate solo (much better than any other
guild could do at that worth, by anything up to 2x) before these
changes, then maybe your 'down tune' isnt so vicious. 


-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: >>>>potions
date: Sat Feb  2 02:23:41 2002

On Sat Feb  2 02:14:57 2002 Trance wrote post #831:
> On Sat Feb  2 02:10:07 2002 Jaws wrote post #830:
> > On Sat Feb  2 02:04:44 2002 Nightfall wrote post #829:
> > > On Sat Feb  2 02:01:36 2002 Jaws wrote post #828:
> > > > Well the skinny on Zif's change - 
> > > > Mobs throw a higher % back than they used to - about 10-15% more
> > > > Throwbacks hurt more - I used to be able to survive 13 - and 10 kills
> now
> > > > 
> > > > My once lucrative kill area is now a death trap - and no it was not
> > > beholders
> > > > they always have a hideous tune
> > > > 
> > > > Thx for the downgrade Zif, just what we wanted
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Jaws
> > > 
> > >   How does 13 -> 10 = lucrative kill area -> death trap.  Sounds like
> > > you may be too upset to post rationally. 
> > >   
> > >   -NF
> > > 
> > And you are poor in comprehension
> > 
> > Read it again and think
> > 
> > TFM
> > GT
> > the area was ONCE lucrative - as in used to be - when the monsters
> > tossed 10-15% LESS potions back and I COULD survive 13
> > 
> > NOW I can only live through 10 and the monsters NOW throw MORE back
> > 
> > Jaws
> 
> When you keep in mind that 100m worthed cauldron mages used to be
> able to pull a 25k/minute rate solo (much better than any other
> guild could do at that worth, by anything up to 2x) before these
> changes, then maybe your 'down tune' isnt so vicious. 
> 
then maybe they should add a mastery or 2 I had
already suggested

since I am well past 200m and sustaining 25k/min was not the easiest
I may not know all the tricks, but now, give what areas I can
kill in without death, Ill prob be lucky to sustain 15k/min

which quite frankly makes cauldron a waste of lvls

to restrain the 100m crowd its relatively simple - create another
mastery at lvl 10
of cauldron and have it be very expensive and adjust throwbacks and
dmg to mobs
If it was balanced right I would gladly toss 50m or so at it so  if anything
at my worth I could attain 30-40k/min if I worked hard at it

There are also a limited # of areas where it is usefull to use cauldron
to be worthwhile you need 3-4 monsters in a room, otherwise much of the 
advantage is muted

Since there are few areas like that, and now most of the
fruitfull (80-100k) areas are deadly, well you get the point
'

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Trance
subject: >>>>>potions
date: Sat Feb  2 02:29:17 2002

If anything at your worth (200m) could do 30-40k a minute mate, it
would be tuned asap. as woodsman, I was pulling 25k/minute at 250m
worth. 35k/minute at 350m worth. Theres no basis for allowing
casters, witches, or any other guild/race/type of char to have an
overly unfair advantage over everyone else, without giving them just
as many risks and disadvantages as they get advantages.

If you want the higher rate, you will take the risks involved. I
dont think anyone on this mud that is not a player, believes that
your xp should be risk free, let alone believes that they should
cater specifically to a particular guild, worth, or whatever.

- Trances final 2 cents


-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: >>>>>>potions
date: Sat Feb  2 02:31:23 2002

On Sat Feb  2 02:29:17 2002 Trance wrote post #833:
> If anything at your worth (200m) could do 30-40k a minute mate, it
> would be tuned asap. as woodsman, I was pulling 25k/minute at 250m
> worth. 35k/minute at 350m worth. Theres no basis for allowing
> casters, witches, or any other guild/race/type of char to have an
> overly unfair advantage over everyone else, without giving them just
> as many risks and disadvantages as they get advantages.
> 
> If you want the higher rate, you will take the risks involved. I
> dont think anyone on this mud that is not a player, believes that
> your xp should be risk free, let alone believes that they should
> cater specifically to a particular guild, worth, or whatever.
> 
> - Trances final 2 cents
> 
maybe u should look at the plaque

I dont want unfair - hence my suggestion
dont HURT all cauldron cuz 100m area has a tune issue

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Sumerion
subject: potions
date: Sat Feb  2 04:18:16 2002

Put a mastery to cauldron in the talisman tree for higher worth
player to get an advantage....just an insane idea...If I'm out on
tin ice ignore it:)

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >potions
date: Sat Feb  2 05:53:42 2002

On Sat Feb  2 02:01:36 2002 Jaws wrote post #828:
> Well the skinny on Zif's change - 
> Mobs throw a higher % back than they used to - about 10-15% more
> Throwbacks hurt more - I used to be able to survive 13 - and 10 kills now
> 
> My once lucrative kill area is now a death trap - and no it was not
beholders
> they always have a hideous tune
> 
> Thx for the downgrade Zif, just what we wanted
> 
> 
> Jaws
I have three words for you...  go to hell.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>potions
date: Sat Feb  2 05:56:40 2002

On Sat Feb  2 05:53:42 2002 Zifnab wrote post #836:
> On Sat Feb  2 02:01:36 2002 Jaws wrote post #828:
> > Well the skinny on Zif's change - 
> > Mobs throw a higher % back than they used to - about 10-15% more
> > Throwbacks hurt more - I used to be able to survive 13 - and 10 kills now
> > 
> > My once lucrative kill area is now a death trap - and no it was not
> beholders
> > they always have a hideous tune
> > 
> > Thx for the downgrade Zif, just what we wanted
> > 
> > 
> > Jaws
> I have three words for you...  go to hell.

to continue with the thought of 'go to hell', a few other choice words
came to mind to.  however cut straight from my
inform post...

Please let me know if you see any problems, as I also
reworked the targetting/hitting of monsters and throw
backs a bit.



-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>>>potions
date: Sat Feb  2 06:44:52 2002

if ya dont like cauldron at 200m, then dont take the levels, they
are far from required

I was cauldron for a very long time, and abused beholders horribly,
only cause i couldnt take sidhe hits + throwback hits and i nejoyed
throwing 20+ potions. As i see other cauldrons killing in areas i
never even thought of, it looks as if a cauldron with better regen
and maybe a heal spell thats better then broom heals could easily
sustain 30-40k rates

i always thought cauldron was a death trap, i dunno how many times i
died cause a room threw back more then the avg, this means that the
% of a throwback is varied, and yes..somedays it seemed like more
were thrown back then others, and i guess i can see where one would
think that after a tune, more are being thrown back, but i really
doubt 1 day is enough testing to warrant a zif flame for downtuning
a guild that rocks at 100m.  Take shock and drag a healer at 200m.

Withces stun res spell is pretty cool, and with a small healer could
probably rape a bunch of areas for a 30k rate

well, this post is already longer then most of mine put together,
and proabbly doesnt make sense at some parts, but to sum it up, dont
take cauldron levels passed 200m worth, OR up you hps by wearing con
eq, and only use spr eq for ticks, and go ent or something, dont
flame the guild for sucking..it is gamme afterall, not omicron

-lu

-----------------

poster: Mixer
subject: >TADA!!
date: Sat Feb  2 07:51:48 2002

On Fri Feb  1 05:54:13 2002 Celine wrote post #823:
> cf
> Not that too many of you care.. but some do...
> 
> And most have already figured it out.. or guessed it at one time or another.
> I'm not a girl.. I have no vagina and no boobs.
> 
> ITS A MAN BABY!!
> 
> Hate me, love me, dont change your opinion of me for it.
> 
> Reasoning behind female name... Wanted to test a theory i had.
> Theory that femmes get treated better than mels.
> 
> I was right! No big suprise really.. but you know how it is..
> "Curiousity killed the cat.... satisfaction brought it back.
> 
> 
> And while I am revealing things.. might as well reveal this too... I
> was previously known as Wik.
> Again, some will care, some wont. shouldnt be reading this far if
> you didnt care anyways.
> 
> Peace all... 
Were you or were you not the person who requested "who female" or similar?

Loser either way.  Wolf in sheep's clothing or guy in a dress, same shit.

-----------------

poster: Mixer
subject: >>potions
date: Sat Feb  2 07:53:46 2002

On Sat Feb  2 05:53:42 2002 Zifnab wrote post #836:
> On Sat Feb  2 02:01:36 2002 Jaws wrote post #828:
> > Well the skinny on Zif's change - 
> > Mobs throw a higher % back than they used to - about 10-15% more
> > Throwbacks hurt more - I used to be able to survive 13 - and 10 kills now
> > 
> > My once lucrative kill area is now a death trap - and no it was not
> beholders
> > they always have a hideous tune
> > 
> > Thx for the downgrade Zif, just what we wanted
> > 
> > 
> > Jaws
> I have three words for you...  go to hell.
How about: Jaws News Ban

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: Zif
date: Sat Feb  2 18:24:31 2002

Sorry for the un- deserved flame, I did not post originally 
to flame, but it came out that way, not much I can say but sorry man.


Jaws

-----------------

poster: Chrono
subject: potions
date: Sun Feb  3 04:16:04 2002

hmm, dunno if 100m could keep a 25k rate, but i guess it 'can',
shrug, anyway, gem blasters at 130-140m can do 25k-30k rates, which
was above my rate as cauldron at that worth - 22k or so..so maybe
gem blasters need a bit of tuning too?

-----------------

poster: Dalak
subject: >TADA!!
date: Sun Feb  3 04:25:19 2002

On Fri Feb  1 05:54:13 2002 Celine wrote post #823:
> cf
> Not that too many of you care.. but some do...
> 
> And most have already figured it out.. or guessed it at one time or another.
> I'm not a girl.. I have no vagina and no boobs.
> 
> ITS A MAN BABY!!
> 
> Hate me, love me, dont change your opinion of me for it.
> 
> Reasoning behind female name... Wanted to test a theory i had.
> Theory that femmes get treated better than mels.
> 
> I was right! No big suprise really.. but you know how it is..
> "Curiousity killed the cat.... satisfaction brought it back.
> 
> 
> And while I am revealing things.. might as well reveal this too... I
> was previously known as Wik.
> Again, some will care, some wont. shouldnt be reading this far if
> you didnt care anyways.
> 
> Peace all... 
Hi Wik :)
DalMeister

-----------------

poster: Kalma
subject: >TADA!!
date: Sun Feb  3 13:51:39 2002

You know, the big problem I have with boys masquerading as chicks
is that their idea of how a woman should act is generally 
completely wrong, and makes all women look bad. When they throw
off the mask, y'all are all angry because he yanked your chain, 
but all his asinine games will still be attributed to women
because men's minds aren't complicated enough to separate them.

Just my 2 cents about the whole boy/girl thing. 

Kalma

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: >>TADA!!
date: Sun Feb  3 18:54:09 2002

Outta curiousity, can you (or anyone else) name one asinine thing
that I did that will forever contribute to a negative image of
women. And as a counterpoint, recruit some friends you know who play
here yet... have them sign on as males if their femmes and have them
destroy mens reputations, god knows it wont do much to the guys.

-----------------

poster: Kalma
subject: >>>TADA!!
date: Sun Feb  3 19:30:31 2002

Well, keeping in mind that I only spoke to you for 5 minutes on 
dragon one day, I'd say the main thing you did was maintain the 
image of b*tchiness. 

However, I was mostly just doing a followup to yet another 
man pretending to be a woman. Since I don't know you personally, 
there's no telling what havok you wrecked. 

Kalma

-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: >>>>TADA!!
date: Sun Feb  3 19:31:13 2002

On Sun Feb  3 19:30:31 2002 Kalma wrote post #847:
> Well, keeping in mind that I only spoke to you for 5 minutes on 
> dragon one day, I'd say the main thing you did was maintain the 
> image of b*tchiness. 
> 
> However, I was mostly just doing a followup to yet another 
> man pretending to be a woman. Since I don't know you personally, 
> there's no telling what havok you wrecked. 
> 
> Kalma
i am afraid of women now because of lu .\

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>>>TADA!!
date: Sun Feb  3 19:31:40 2002

i am afraid of snoop, because he is a troll
-lu

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>>>TADA!!
date: Sun Feb  3 20:17:31 2002

lu is the only women ive ever truly loved

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >>>TADA!!
date: Sun Feb  3 20:35:10 2002

On Sun Feb  3 18:54:09 2002 Celine wrote post #846:
> Outta curiousity, can you (or anyone else) name one asinine thing
> that I did that will forever contribute to a negative image of
> women. And as a counterpoint, recruit some friends you know who play
> here yet... have them sign on as males if their femmes and have them
> destroy mens reputations, god knows it wont do much to the guys.

... and here I feel silly ... I knew you were a guy from the start
and missed my oppurtunity to give you exp/gold and eq =(

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: stupid misconception
date: Sun Feb  3 21:54:22 2002

On Sun Feb  3 00:42:09 2002 Sleet wrote post #507:
> i thats alittle harsh man, i dont think jaws was right in the things
> he said, but he was angry, he thought that they had tuned down the
> guild again, just after they had tuned down the witches stomping
> grounds, which made him particurly preturbed, since the guild is in

I'd just like to say in the defense of the person that made the
change to beholders, that it wasn't a "down tune" as those who are
ignorant of the situation think it is.
It is removing a hack in the monster that disallowed it from getting
entry hits in the first place... mainly that its a beholder: it has
no arms, therefore, no arms to hit you with on entry.

Atleast if you're going to make accusations, get them correct. This
was not a down tune, it was a fix that should've been made long ago.
Some of you that want to kill the same monsters over and over for
easy gold will just have to live with it.

-WC

-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: >>stupid misconception
date: Sun Feb  3 22:28:10 2002

so in other words, when silver belts were fixed that wasn't a bug
fix that was also a tune
*/Snoop

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >>stupid misconception
date: Sun Feb  3 23:55:03 2002

On Sun Feb  3 21:57:03 2002 Sleet wrote post #853:
> On Sun Feb  3 21:54:22 2002 Wildchild wrote post #852:
> > On Sun Feb  3 00:42:09 2002 Sleet wrote post #507:
> > > i thats alittle harsh man, i dont think jaws was right in the things
> > > he said, but he was angry, he thought that they had tuned down the
> > > guild again, just after they had tuned down the witches stomping
> > > grounds, which made him particurly preturbed, since the guild is in
> > 
> > I'd just like to say in the defense of the person that made the
> > change to beholders, that it wasn't a "down tune" as those who are
> > ignorant of the situation think it is.
> > It is removing a hack in the monster that disallowed it from getting
> > entry hits in the first place... mainly that its a beholder: it has
> > no arms, therefore, no arms to hit you with on entry.
> > 
> > Atleast if you're going to make accusations, get them correct. This
> > was not a down tune, it was a fix that should've been made long ago.
> > Some of you that want to kill the same monsters over and over for
> > easy gold will just have to live with it.
> > 
> > -WC
> no your wrong.
> Even if it was a fix, it was still a down tune.
> Just because it should of been changed awhile ago doesnt mean it
> didnt effect rates

*roflmao*

You obviously have nfc what teh difference is between a tune and a fix.
I'll please ask now that you refrain from talking about that which
you have no knowledge of.

You think it is a tune only because you are too damn lazy to find
somewhere else to kill. Too damn bad.

-WC

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >potions
date: Mon Feb  4 02:11:06 2002

On Sun Feb  3 04:16:04 2002 Chrono wrote post #842:
> hmm, dunno if 100m could keep a 25k rate, but i guess it 'can',
> shrug, anyway, gem blasters at 130-140m can do 25k-30k rates, which
> was above my rate as cauldron at that worth - 22k or so..so maybe
> gem blasters need a bit of tuning too?
Warrior-subtree fighters can only solo about 15-20K/min at a couple
of hundred million worth, so every other guild needs tuning down
to that.  Oh yes.

No, I'm not serious.  I just wanted to post something about tuning
guilds down because some other guild doesn't solo as well.

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >>TADA!!
date: Mon Feb  4 02:13:34 2002

On Sun Feb  3 13:51:39 2002 Kalma wrote post #845:
> You know, the big problem I have with boys masquerading as chicks
> is that their idea of how a woman should act is generally 
> completely wrong, and makes all women look bad. When they throw
> off the mask, y'all are all angry because he yanked your chain, 
> but all his asinine games will still be attributed to women
> because men's minds aren't complicated enough to separate them.
> 
> Just my 2 cents about the whole boy/girl thing. 
> 
> Kalma
I've seen some sexist shit in my time, but that ranks well
up there.

Unlike you, many people are able to do better than sexist crap
loosely based on the actions of one or two people but showered
over everyone of the "wrong" sex.

-----------------

poster: Tamuli
subject: >>>>>>TADA!
date: Mon Feb  4 02:13:52 2002

cough Full Sps!
i didnt even know celine was a girl.

-----------------

poster: Bahgtru
subject: >>>>>>>TADA!
date: Mon Feb  4 02:14:46 2002

On Mon Feb  4 02:13:52 2002 Tamuli wrote post #858:
> cough Full Sps!
> i didnt even know celine was a girl.
How many times have I heard that, but with my name in place of Celine's?

-----------------

poster: Kalma
subject: >>>TADA!!
date: Mon Feb  4 02:53:22 2002

Ok, so it was probably a little over the top, but it's still annoying. 
But stories *do* go from Celine said, to some weirdo chick 
fairly quickly, and I doubt it gets reverted back to some stupid
guy playing a chick said. ;)

Kalma

-----------------

poster: Tantrum
subject:  TADA
date: Mon Feb  4 03:12:46 2002

hey i didnt even know dalak was a super-intelligent goatman!

-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: >>>stupid misconception
date: Mon Feb  4 07:29:36 2002

On Sun Feb  3 22:28:10 2002 Snoop wrote post #854:
> so in other words, when silver belts were fixed that wasn't a bug
> fix that was also a tune
> */Snoop

Anyone who remembers the silver belt incident has been here a LONG time....

-----------------

poster: Mixer
subject: >>stupid misconception
date: Mon Feb  4 14:14:33 2002

On Sun Feb  3 21:57:03 2002 Sleet wrote post #853:
> On Sun Feb  3 21:54:22 2002 Wildchild wrote post #852:
> > On Sun Feb  3 00:42:09 2002 Sleet wrote post #507:
> > > i thats alittle harsh man, i dont think jaws was right in the things
> > > he said, but he was angry, he thought that they had tuned down the
> > > guild again, just after they had tuned down the witches stomping
> > > grounds, which made him particurly preturbed, since the guild is in
> > 
> > I'd just like to say in the defense of the person that made the
> > change to beholders, that it wasn't a "down tune" as those who are
> > ignorant of the situation think it is.
> > It is removing a hack in the monster that disallowed it from getting
> > entry hits in the first place... mainly that its a beholder: it has
> > no arms, therefore, no arms to hit you with on entry.
> > 
> > Atleast if you're going to make accusations, get them correct. This
> > was not a down tune, it was a fix that should've been made long ago.
> > Some of you that want to kill the same monsters over and over for
> > easy gold will just have to live with it.
> > 
> > -WC
> no your wrong.
> Even if it was a fix, it was still a down tune.
> Just because it should of been changed awhile ago doesnt mean it
> didnt effect rates
OK.
I _did not_ tune down a guild.  I did not _touch_ a guild.

I removed a hack from a monster that overrode combat functions
and caused havoc any time combat code was changed.  It was maintenance
which was necessary.  Old school coders followed no rules and as
such sometimes these jobs need to be done and as it happened I
was the one with the time and inclination to do it.


-----------------

poster: Mixer
subject: >>>stupid misconception
date: Mon Feb  4 14:15:28 2002

On Sun Feb  3 22:28:10 2002 Snoop wrote post #854:
> so in other words, when silver belts were fixed that wasn't a bug
> fix that was also a tune
> */Snoop
The silver belt, like the singing sword and other items, was
an item that was simply far too good to be true.  As soon as it was
systematically abused and identified, it was brought back to
within the realms of reality.

-----------------

poster: Zax
subject: >>>>stupid misconception
date: Mon Feb  4 16:30:54 2002

On Mon Feb  4 14:15:28 2002 Mixer wrote post #864:
> On Sun Feb  3 22:28:10 2002 Snoop wrote post #854:
> > so in other words, when silver belts were fixed that wasn't a bug
> > fix that was also a tune
> > */Snoop
> The silver belt, like the singing sword and other items, was
> an item that was simply far too good to be true.  As soon as it was
> systematically abused and identified, it was brought back to
> within the realms of reality.
just like that damn thieves poison on weapons down tune...


-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: >>>>>stupid misconception
date: Mon Feb  4 21:55:49 2002

So, conclusion, there are no bug fixes, only tunes. Should rename
the player.bugs newsgroup to player.tunes
*/Snoop

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>>>stupid misconception
date: Mon Feb  4 21:56:30 2002

> > > didnt effect rates
> > 
> > *roflmao*
> > 
> > You obviously have nfc what teh difference is between a tune and a fix.
> > I'll please ask now that you refrain from talking about that which
> > you have no knowledge of.
> > 
> > You think it is a tune only because you are too damn lazy to find
> > somewhere else to kill. Too damn bad.
> > 
> > -WC
> no, im not even killing there, im not lazy, somethign can be a fix
> and a tune, by making the fix you made the area harder in a effect
> tuning it

The point that Wildchild is trying to make is that you guys sling 
the word 'tune' around too much.

The area was changed with no thought in mind as to what guild
it was affecting the most, or what the 'tuning' affect would be

It was made due to a bad decision in coding the monsters themselves, or
the lib for not noticing that was an option to avoid entry
hits. The fix ended up being a 'tune' for one specific guild, but
was in no way done for that reason.

Zif

-----------------

poster: Dalak
subject: > TADA
date: Tue Feb  5 04:32:45 2002

On Mon Feb  4 03:12:46 2002 Tantrum wrote post #861:
> hey i didnt even know dalak was a super-intelligent goatman!
Baaahhh Baaaaaaah
GoatDal

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >>>>stupid misconception
date: Wed Feb  6 06:17:56 2002

On Mon Feb  4 07:29:36 2002 Marvin wrote post #862:
> On Sun Feb  3 22:28:10 2002 Snoop wrote post #854:
> > so in other words, when silver belts were fixed that wasn't a bug
> > fix that was also a tune
> > */Snoop
> 
> Anyone who remembers the silver belt incident has been here a LONG time....

I suppose I've been here a LONG LONG time then, since that happened
well after I started playing this mud.

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >>>>stupid misconception
date: Wed Feb  6 06:19:11 2002

On Mon Feb  4 14:15:28 2002 Mixer wrote post #864:
> On Sun Feb  3 22:28:10 2002 Snoop wrote post #854:
> > so in other words, when silver belts were fixed that wasn't a bug
> > fix that was also a tune
> > */Snoop
> The silver belt, like the singing sword and other items, was
> an item that was simply far too good to be true.  As soon as it was
> systematically abused and identified, it was brought back to
> within the realms of reality.

Just a FYI, I told Uncle the singing sword was WAY out of tune when
I helped him with it ... he chose to not want to change it to
something more "suitable" ... go figure.

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >>>>>>>>TADA!
date: Wed Feb  6 07:35:00 2002

On Mon Feb  4 02:14:46 2002 Bahgtru wrote post #859:
> On Mon Feb  4 02:13:52 2002 Tamuli wrote post #858:
> > cough Full Sps!
> > i didnt even know celine was a girl.
> How many times have I heard that, but with my name in place of Celine's?
Your a girl?

-----------------

poster: Cazhmere
subject: Happy Birthday
date: Wed Feb  6 22:48:44 2002

Just wanted to wish Spiraldancer a happy 24th birthday.
Love ya baby =)

-----------------

poster: Delnari
subject: Shirak_Dulak
date: Sat Feb  9 01:45:45 2002

I'm not sure if this is supposed to go here, but if isn't, don't
complain. It's not that hard to just skip along.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Basically the idea here is that clan Shirak_Dulak needs some new
members. We're really not strict on requirements so feel free to
mail either myself or Chewba. Read the only two requirements below
and apply if you'd like.

1) Must have a pulse. {This is prett self explanatory}

2) Must be able to carry on a civilized conversation. {If we wanted
anti-social people, we'd still be pestering Bluemoon. :) }

That's all there is. Thanks for your time.............


-Delnari


-----------------

poster: Chewba
subject: Shirak_dulak
date: Sat Feb  9 01:52:36 2002

Ignore Delnari's mail.

We are looking for some clan members that are totally SWEET.

Requirements are.

1) Tey are totally Sweet.

2) They flip out over any thing.

3) They get 7 boners a day.

4) They explode.

Mails to chewbs and Delnari


-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: icq
date: Sat Feb  9 04:25:06 2002

Unfortunately, I need to rebuild my ICQ contact list, so if any of
you out there that I still talk to wanna drop me a message so I can
add you all again, I'd appreciate it :)
Some of you I haven't talked to on ICQ in quite awhile, so maybe a
few of you will be alive still :)

-WildChild

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: wierd
date: Sat Feb  9 22:33:12 2002

Ok so the potion file has not been changed - something has 

I am getting alomost double the tossbacks on a 90k mob than I used
to - testing smaller mob
changes  

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >wierd
date: Sat Feb  9 22:42:19 2002

On Sat Feb  9 22:33:12 2002 Jaws wrote post #879:
> Ok so the potion file has not been changed - something has 
> 
> I am getting alomost double the tossbacks on a 90k mob than I used
> to - testing smaller mob
> changes  
> 
> Jaws


I will give you that your amount of damage you are taking could be
differant I greatly simplified that part of the code, and you
probably are getting hit for more damage.

But noone else has had any problems since my last fixes to it
almost a week ago.

However I did not touch the place where hte monster throws 
back potions.  Again none else has had a problem with it, why
just you.

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: wierd
date: Sat Feb  9 22:46:55 2002

I dunno - right after yer last changes things were cool
pretty much back the way they were as far as I could tell

then coupld days of not using cauldron
come on, and today I am getting more tossed back at me

I dunno why, but I tested more than a couple times and got the same results

currently looking for smaller mobs to kill

I dunno if its that im 99% to nex mastery rank, or the new guild
leader things, or some change made to 
mobs themselves - but the things I used to kill, and kill safely with cauldron
are now killing me before they are even 1/2 way dead

a 90k critter used to toss 15-20% of my potions back at me
the same 90k vritter is now tossing 35-40% back

if this is the way it is to be then fine, Im just reporting the change

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >wierd
date: Sat Feb  9 22:52:49 2002

On Sat Feb  9 22:46:55 2002 Jaws wrote post #881:
> I dunno - right after yer last changes things were cool
> pretty much back the way they were as far as I could tell
> 
> then coupld days of not using cauldron
> come on, and today I am getting more tossed back at me
> 
> I dunno why, but I tested more than a couple times and got the same results
> 
> currently looking for smaller mobs to kill
> 
> I dunno if its that im 99% to nex mastery rank, or the new guild
> leader things, or some change made to 
> mobs themselves - but the things I used to kill, and kill safely with
cauldron
> are now killing me before they are even 1/2 way dead
> 
> a 90k critter used to toss 15-20% of my potions back at me
> the same 90k vritter is now tossing 35-40% back
> 
> if this is the way it is to be then fine, Im just reporting the change
> 
> Jaws

Nothing has changed in the lib that will affect this.  Everything you
mentioned has _0_ affect on throw backs.  It is a self contained function
in the potion itself that has not changed in years.

Since by your own words it was fine with the last changes, 
and the toss backs are all contained in the same file, I will
chalk this off to bad luck today, or MIS.

Take your pick, since you just proved my point of there
being no bug.

-----------------

poster: Rancor
subject: Potions&dmg
date: Sat Feb  9 23:16:05 2002

q

I seem to be taking a bit more damage in my new reinc.  I have same
spells and skills and I am now thrikhen as opposed to gargoyle.  My
race is resistant to poinsoon and I take just as much if not more
damage from potion throwbacks as I did with gargoyle.  

Not saying it is wrong just puttuing it out there
Rancor

-----------------

poster: Wagro
subject: Tp sac page
date: Mon Feb 11 02:20:40 2002


I made a list of eq's with the amount of tps its worth. address is
http://www.geocities.com/rdtpeq/tpsac.html

I dont have many items up there at the moment, but i want people to
mud mail me any tp items they know that I either dont have or I have
it wrong

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject:  HappE Birthday!
date: Mon Feb 11 09:34:22 2002


Its Petras B-day (20th)... everyone wish him a good one.

-----------------

poster: Ladyhawk
subject: Aha!
date: Mon Feb 11 13:29:03 2002

Make sure to wish Zifnab a Happy Birthday, It's not everyday someone
turns 302!

-----------------

poster: Trigon
subject: Coolness
date: Mon Feb 11 23:14:02 2002

Go here
http://12.254.138.54/mike.html
It's my brother, and he's breathing fire
He owns
Trigon

-----------------

poster: Baer
subject: >Aha!
date: Tue Feb 12 00:10:51 2002

On Mon Feb 11 13:29:03 2002 Ladyhawk wrote post #886:
> Make sure to wish Zifnab a Happy Birthday, It's not everyday someone
> turns 302!
He doesn't look a day over 201

Happy Birthday!

-----------------

poster: Trigon
subject: Feh
date: Tue Feb 12 04:36:12 2002

Too bad there isn't a general.stupid but I can't find my fig set.
I don't know what the crap happened to it, but if I loaned any of it
out, can someone tell me?
Thanks
Trigon

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >Feh
date: Tue Feb 12 06:27:20 2002

last i hear tyreal had it
-poop

-----------------

poster: Mirrim
subject: Red Dragon Advertising
date: Tue Feb 12 10:23:09 2002

I just came from the website, www.topmudsites.com and Red Dragon
isn't in their listings. If someone could go there and fill out the
form with all of the particulars of Red Dragon, others could know
about this place that so many of us consider our 2nd home. (First,
for some) 

-----------------

poster: Javier
subject: >Coolness
date: Tue Feb 12 19:11:23 2002

On Mon Feb 11 23:14:02 2002 Trigon wrote post #887:
> Go here
> http://12.254.138.54/mike.html
> It's my brother, and he's breathing fire
> He owns
> Trigon
Dude, and I thought MY brother's breath was bad...
Javi

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >Red Dragon Advertising
date: Wed Feb 13 01:51:37 2002

On Tue Feb 12 10:23:09 2002 Mirrim wrote post #891:
> I just came from the website, www.topmudsites.com and Red Dragon
> isn't in their listings. If someone could go there and fill out the
> form with all of the particulars of Red Dragon, others could know
> about this place that so many of us consider our 2nd home. (First,
> for some) 

I asked Zif about updating the listing on www.mudconnector.com
sometime (since it is over 3 years old) and he said it can be a
lengthy process.
Would be cool if somebody else could volunteer to do it tho :)

-WC

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: >>Red Dragon Advertising
date: Wed Feb 13 02:40:58 2002

I'll do anything i can to help the mud.. dont know if im wanted to
rep by helping but if so someone should contact me.. I have way too
much free time on my hands and could certainly do it.

-----------------

poster: Nyx
subject: Starbucks Coffee
date: Mon Feb 18 20:22:05 2002

Nothing to do with the Mud.
If anyone wants free Starbucks coffee or a box of Tazo tee, let me
know. I work there and every week we get either a box of Tazo tea or
1 lb of Starbucks coffee. I dont have a coffee maker and I have tons
of tea so i wont be using this feature every week. If you want
either of these, let me know. Either MUD mail or email with your
name and address and what kind ya want (tazo flavors 
http://www.starbucks.com/shop/menuboard.asp?category%
Fname=Tea+Menu+Board], or starbucks
flavors [http://www.starbucks.com/shop/menuboard.asp?
ategory%5Fname=Coffee+Menu+Board]), kind of coffee filter you use
(if you want the coffee) and I will see what I can do. Would be a
shame to let this
go to waste when I can give it away. 
Nyx

If more then one person emails I will do a waiting list and each
week I will just go down the list. And for the record I will prolly
mail it COD unless I really like you. ;)

-----------------

poster: Zavier
subject: >Starbucks Coffee
date: Tue Feb 19 01:59:37 2002

Starbucks is the DEVIL! I know I used to work there. =] Ok lets go
and rape a few third world countries for one of the only valuable
commodities they have and sell it at astronomical prices to some of
the only countries dumb enough (and rich enough) to pay it.
Starbucks is evil... so where do I sign up for the mocha java? =]
-Zavier

-----------------

poster: Chrono
subject: eqstats
date: Tue Feb 19 05:11:49 2002

hmm, going to be putting up an eqpage, hmm, hopefully, anyway, if
anyone wants to mudmail me with stats of their eq, or eq they are
absolutly sure is the stats, that would be great.
thank you.
(Hr0n0

-----------------

poster: Terminator
subject: Flubex B-day
date: Thu Feb 21 14:57:33 2002

Flubex is turning 18 today so wish him a happy b-day.

//Terri (Tomten whore)

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: quests
date: Sat Feb 23 00:13:28 2002

it would be nice if party quests that gave solo rewards said so on
their help thingie so I don't have to waste my time with them
anymore.  pardon my moanage
art

-----------------

poster: Tigerwolf
subject: EOB
date: Sun Feb 24 07:52:58 2002

Hello all,
Tigerwolf here. The reason I'm writing  is that tonight on my first
day back I accidentally had Chicken sell Blue's Eob after he'd lent
it to me at the beginning of a party, and that I'm hoping that the
person who saw the eob in the shop may kindly repair my plunder by
returning it. I dont know how I will pay you back, but I'll be
greatly indebted to you. I apologize to both you and Blue for my
carelessness. Sorry.
Tigerwolf

-----------------

poster: Tigerwolf
subject: none
date: Sun Feb 24 08:42:25 2002

type blunder = plunder
tw

-----------------

poster: Yugo
subject: need help with info gathering
date: Mon Feb 25 16:13:40 2002

ok guys and girls i need your help
i want all the up and down msg
and the msg showen to others
from the spells and skills
from alpha guild to omicron

i would love if yu could mail me them
in a format like this

Name  entock
others up msg  bla feels his heartbeat quickening.
others down msg  bla's heartbeat slows down.
your up msg  You feel your heartbeat quickening.
your down msg  Your heartbeat slows down.

ofcause i only want the msg where there 
is a up and down msg so skills/spells that is
fire of right away and then is finish have no use.
the reason i want this is because i wanna make
a homepage with all this info on it so ppl dont
have to wait for the up's and down msg to show
to make their triggers.

hope you can help.

Yugo

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>Red Dragon Advertising
date: Mon Feb 25 20:57:31 2002

On Wed Feb 13 01:51:37 2002 Wildchild wrote post #893:
> On Tue Feb 12 10:23:09 2002 Mirrim wrote post #891:
> > I just came from the website, www.topmudsites.com and Red Dragon
> > isn't in their listings. If someone could go there and fill out the
> > form with all of the particulars of Red Dragon, others could know
> > about this place that so many of us consider our 2nd home. (First,
> > for some) 
> 
> I asked Zif about updating the listing on www.mudconnector.com
> sometime (since it is over 3 years old) and he said it can be a
> lengthy process.
> Would be cool if somebody else could volunteer to do it tho :)
> 
> -WC
I can do it.  Its just that the last time I tried it want lengthy
it was a pain in the ass.

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: Postcards and Zif's daughter
date: Tue Feb 26 03:14:41 2002

What about Florida? I can send her a postcard of our WORLD FAMOUS
Florida bunnnns.

- Ark

-----------------

poster: Rockman
subject: >Postcards and Zif's daughter
date: Wed Feb 27 21:43:54 2002

flroida bunnnns???, oh, those disgusting little creatures on the road, ok

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: "Remembrance" revisited
date: Thu Feb 28 23:21:02 2002

My Dragonlance fan fiction, "Remembrance", has been semi-resurrected.
The story has gotten a good edit and is now online once again as
part of the third (and final) issue of an online Dragonlance
fanzine.

The magazine is called Gathering and can be found at 
ttp://www.leafdigital.com/gathering/3/

-WildChild

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>Machine
date: Fri Mar  1 14:42:36 2002

> > 
> > The new machine will be up March 9th for transfer.
> > 
> > Khosan / Zifnab get in touch with me so we can discuss the transfer
process.
> > 
> > 
> > Ill post the IP address, or Khosan / Zifnab will when we get the
> > new machine ready.
> > 
> > ++Darkstaff
> 
> I guess I missed the downtime about khosan's server.
> Ill talk with Khosan and Zifnab to discuss what we all want to do.
> 
> ++Darkstaff
I think you missed a lot.

The 'downtime' was a few hours, and mostly because someone pulled
the plug on the machine.  Which has happened everywhere we have been.

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: Status of red dragon mud
date: Sat Mar  2 20:29:51 2002

This is a tough post to write. I want to be thoughtful,
but also not overanalyze this situation.
Darkstaff, I think you're a good guy and I think we all appreciate
the contributions you have made to the mud's development.
Having said that however, I for one am in full support of the
admin teams' decision on this issue, for essentially the same reasons.

//U

-----------------

poster: Bahgtru
subject: >in my defense
date: Sun Mar  3 06:17:03 2002

On Sun Mar  3 06:09:37 2002 Darkstaff wrote post #913:
> I would like to respond to the email khosan posted on inform.
> I also would like you all to consider how I feel.
> 
> I put countless hours into red dragon. They are working on a foundation
> of code that I developed. Is it really fair what they are doing to me?
> 
> 
> Additionally, the email Khosan posted was sent to Zifnab only. For them
> to post it on Infrom is an example of the admin's team attitude towards me.
> 
> I'm seen as a threat for some reason.. Is slamming 1 tiamat monster that
> big of a deal Khosan?
> 
> Read this post quickly, as I'm sure it will be removed ASAP like all my
> previous posts.
> 
> Darkstaff
Ok, so I'm not the smartest guy on the mud, but here's my thoughts anyway.

Does it really matter who "owns" the mud? I'm sure most people here
just want to have a good time, and/or idle a lot.

In my opinion, you guys need to sort it out, but don't go involving
everyone in the mud. You have problems, yes. Do't get all bitchy at
each other, try to reason it out.

Darkstaff : Yes, you created the mud, and I'm not going to argue
that you put a lot of work into it. However, I can understand the
problem with slamming Tiamat. People put in hours of work to kill
it, and it takes you like half a second. But I also agree the
punishment was a bit harsh.

Khosan : I understand you've put in a large amount of effort and
work into this mud, but the fact remains that Darkstaff created it.
I think it was uncalled for to post that mail that only concerned 2
people (Darkstaff and Zifnab) on a public channel. I also think (no
offence meant by this) that you over-react. Give the guy a chance.
Ya de-wiz and give him 20m? That's not really the way to treat the
guy who created this mud.

I'm not taking sides here, I just think it's an issue that needs to
be sorted out without anyone getting nuked, frozen, de-wizzed, or
leaving.

- Bag

-----------------

poster: Korthrun
subject: >>in my defense
date: Sun Mar  3 06:22:09 2002

bag has a point about it being able to be sorted out with out any major drama.
I dont see the prob with slamming tiamat, the "god" of the mud
should be able to do stuff
I remember like 4 years ago when darkstaff gave me 3M exp...alot in
those days. just because he had had a good day. so what? now im a
level 26 rogue barley worth 10M...that act didnt make a huge
difference in the mud if even a noticible one.
if someone were to do this every day, i could understand, it would
be like ppl who purchase EQ accounts, whats the point if your not
playing the game
well whatever, thats all.
Korth, The Inheritly Evil

-----------------

poster: Litho
subject: >errors in khosans post about me
date: Sun Mar  3 06:30:29 2002

I also have to admit i was never asked to Drag DS, i have had some
good times with him, since 97' when i started here.
I help him with some mob/guild ideas, and i wanted to help get him
worth, so i dragged him a few megs, just to clarify, i never was
asked.

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: quick thoughts
date: Sun Mar  3 06:48:59 2002

While this... issue... has already been dragged into the open, I
hope that most players will refrain from commenting with their
opinions or in choosing sides and such.
This is something that needs to be resolved between Darkstaff and
the admins. Hopefully that will happen quickly and without
bloodshed.

Second, I thought that it would be nice for some peeps to know that,
well, it is in the rules that wizards should not interfere with
players. Slamming a monster for them and letting them take the eq,
and a quest no less, would be a pretty big breaking of that rule. If
we make exceptions to the rules, then we might as well not have
rules.
Example: player got nuked for botting, other players jumped to his
defense crying foul, even though said player accepted it without any
qualms. It's that simple.

Also, considering the various sites that this mud has been located
at, I think we are the most stable where we are now.
I also don't feel that location is the cause of the lag, but the
code itself, which is something that is being worked through and
worked out.

I don't want to pick sides; I've been here long enough to see all
sorts of crap from everybody, wizzes and mortals alike, and this is
a situation that could get ugly in a hurry. I pray it doesn't
happen, cause even though I'm pretty much retired, I still enjoy
being logged on here and seeing what's going on. Considering I'm
helping out on 10k, I'd hate to see my contributions go to waste
either.

-WC

-----------------

poster: Blue
subject: wildchilds comment
date: Sun Mar  3 07:01:25 2002

scream tick!
well to how you were saying noone should take sides, that last bit
of the post:
>Also, considering the various sites that this mud has been located
>at, I think we are the most stable where we are now.
scream tock!!
>I also don't feel that location is the cause of the lag, but the
>code itself, which is something that is being worked through and
>worked out.
say avatar regeneration down!!!!
Let them worry about like you said, practice what you preach, and
also that sounds like you are taking sides with khosan but i dont
care just pointing that out
*8
blah

-----------------

poster: Petra
subject: Hang on people with power and stuff.
date: Sun Mar  3 07:02:49 2002

Its my understanding that Darkstaff just wants to move the mud back
to the mainland after a long time of it being temporarily on Khosans
server.
NOT to TAKE OVER the mud but to simply relocate it. If zifnab and
khosans definition of location equals absolute control of the mud
then 1) Khosan then technically controls the mud. 2) IF this
instance of control is true then who better than the person that
Created the mud!
But by reading the news DS has portrayed himself as Yes wanting the
mud moved. In game position shouldnt be important. DS is the
creator. Maybe he broke some rules but whos testing the waters of
being morally wrong. The people that added to this mud did ADD to
the mud they did not provide the base of the mud.
look at help files and see how many base skills and base spells
where written by DS.
DS is a big person to say yeah i created this mud i'll take a
dewizzing for it, thats more than the creator should do. The
situation was resolved i was in the party i got my TP's retaken, and
the eq. big whoop. I see it as DS gave us one more story to tell.
(tho short)
I seriously ask Khosan and Zifnab to think about what they are
doing, make sure they can honestly say that they think they are in
the right. With anything like this, only the people directly related
to the issue know whats really happening so thus i cant take a side
tho from a person who has doen his own codeing and created
manythings unique (like small business's IRL) RD is still DS's
creation. To take it away from him is stepping where no one
belongs.
im just player and i play this game, being a player i appriciate the
work that all the wizards do, but the creator layed down a
foundation, and with out that what do you have?
just think more, talk less. and remember you have a lot of players
watching you all now..

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >wildchilds comment
date: Sun Mar  3 07:04:37 2002

On Sun Mar  3 07:01:25 2002 Blue wrote post #919:
> scream tick!
> well to how you were saying noone should take sides, that last bit
> of the post:
> >Also, considering the various sites that this mud has been located
> >at, I think we are the most stable where we are now.
> scream tock!!
> >I also don't feel that location is the cause of the lag, but the
> >code itself, which is something that is being worked through and
> >worked out.
> say avatar regeneration down!!!!
> Let them worry about like you said, practice what you preach, and
> also that sounds like you are taking sides with khosan but i dont
> care just pointing that out
> *8
> blah

God you're stupid.

I say the mud is stable where it is because I have played the mud
when it was located in I believe Boston, in LA, in Denver, and now
Denmark.
I am saying that based on the performance of the link, the total
amount of downtime, etc, that we are most stable where we are now.
Is that hard to comprehend?

-WC

-----------------

poster: Myrddin
subject: >Hang on people with power and stuff.
date: Sun Mar  3 07:04:43 2002

nothing is being taken away from darkstaff.
he left Reddragon a long time ago
the mud has changed greatly since then

-----------------

poster: Litho
subject: >>Hang on people with power and stuff.
date: Sun Mar  3 07:05:23 2002

I think we should all shut up now.

-----------------

poster: Bahgtru
subject: >>>Hang on people with power and stuff.
date: Sun Mar  3 07:05:44 2002

On Sun Mar  3 07:05:23 2002 Litho wrote post #923:
> I think we should all shut up now.
Ok, so I am gonna take a side... I take Litho's side

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: Hrm. 
date: Sun Mar  3 07:23:09 2002

Ok - way of the drama in this game, but, has anyone ever had ulcers before?
Something is seriously wrong with my stomach - I'm always in pain,
and I can't hardly sleep.  

The pain is like when your starving - right before your stomach
growls type pain - but it's constant. 
Havn't eaten regularly for near a week - only 2 real meals and
mostly just bread/other bland shit. 
Any advice for a poor suffering soul?
Q

-----------------

poster: Litho
subject: >Hrm. 
date: Sun Mar  3 07:23:48 2002

get laid, drink non acidic juice/food

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>Hang on people with power and stuff.
date: Sun Mar  3 07:38:09 2002

Well I had a big post ready to go on this but stuff went and freaked.

Let me sum it up
DS, you are level 46 with 14 open guild levels and no spells or
skills over 65%
I bet you were learning a lot about the mud.  Like it is real easy to
do exp when you have rockin skills and spells.


DS you stopped being a factor on this mud when I wizzed.  You stopped being 
active.  You left a power void and people grew up to fill it.  The mud moved
on without you.  

Frankly, I can't for the life of me understand why someone would expect to 
walk into a project after 3 years of having nothing to do with it and take
back over.  How long you going to stay active this time?  
A lot of things can be said about zif, but nobody can deny that he has worked
his ass off for this mud for 6 years straight.  If the mud is owned by 
anyone it should be him.  


Personally if you don't have a backup of the mud from when you were 
active I think you should have a copy.  You worked hard on the mud in
the day.  I am all for letting you have a copy of it.  
As far as control of the mud, no I don't think you should have that.  
And if you wan't to take the name which is still registered to you and
run your own mud go for it.  I do not think that is the best thing for
the mud.  Splits like this always are hard on the mud.  They kill the
player base and cause pain and suffering in general.  Really, what is
your motivation for this?  You have been happy enough w/o control of
the mud for a long time.  Why rip stuff up now.

-----------------

poster: Darkstaff
subject: Problems with ME
date: Sun Mar  3 07:40:33 2002

Everyone.
1st of all let me reassure everyone that RD is fine. Your admin team
is doing well and that RD is in no jeporady at all. 

Let me explain what is happening, and maybe that will relieve everyones
view of the situation.

A brief history of Red Dragon.

I started Red Dragon back in 1995 after working on batmud, retroactive,
zombie and gate muds. I was looking for a mud that would run on a DEC
alpha that my friend had available for mud development on. The dec alpha
was running OSF-1, which is a 64bit OS that many drivers were not able to
handle... so I was able to get mudos ported over and started working with a
then upcoming mudlib. Anyways to make a long story brief, I spent a lot of
time working with the Lima crew, as well as Zifnab, who was a major 
contributer not only to Red Dragon, but the base mudlib as well LIMA.

I was able to spend countless hours on Red Dragon as I was a student at
Umass amherst. I was able to get support from many awesome coders that
allowed this mud to exist.. Onyx comes to mind as one of the best coders and
co-founders of the game.. along with of course Zifnab.

Over time, I started to accept changes to Red Dragon that I wasn't completely
happy with.. for instance player killing, particular verb functionality.. etc

but I didn't mind because the admin team, led by Zifnab was doing an
outsitanding job.

I had some personal things happen to me in recent years that prohibited me
from contributing here much. Yes I would run trivia tasks, and attempt to
code new things into the mud, but usually when coding things, I would not
work well with the "maintainers" of the mud, aka the admin team. I would code
things without consent and without their authorization. These things were
ok a few years back, but with a mud as large as this one, and with as many
variables as this one, shouldnt happen anymore. 

I promises the admin team that I wouldnt log in and make lib changes without
consent. 

I broke this agreement a few months ago, when a player asked me to make the
plaque not drop players off whom idle. So I made that change without
thinking. And within a few weeks, the admin team here noticed that
something was
sucking major amounts of memory.! how the heck could they have known it was
the plaque? I never told anyone! So, something I did in order to improve the
game had the opposite effect, it hurt it. Admins wasted their time looking
for what the problem was, and I could have solved the problem before it
started by asking, or requesting the change before I made it.

This is not the only example, but it shows what the root of the
problem is. I am a good mud "creator" but I am very bad at the
"maintaince" of a mud. 

On the other hand, the admin team here is awesome at both maintaining but
also selectively creating new funcationality where it exsits.

After I slammed Tiamat on my 30th birthday, the deck of cards came
crashing down... it was the last straw. I recieved a resignation
letter from an admin and I was dismayed. I didn't want RD to suffer
the battles and arguments at
the highest ranks causing ripples that sends a mud to its dismise.

So I dewized in order to play and enjoy RD as a mortal.

After morting, I quickly filled up my notebook of things I didn't like about
RD... and soon I was shocked at how RD evolved into something that quite 
honestly, was not something I had planned. It was shocking, but I thought 
that if I got to be an admin, i would be able to make some changes.

What happened then was a disaster and a complete meltdown in communications.

Thats all it is.

I just want to reassure everyone playing red dragon that the DNS will infact
point here, and that I have no ill intentions for this awesome mud.

Your admin team is probably the best admin for any mud ANYWHERE.. and at the
very least this shows you how powerful our feelings our for this place.

I would like to sincerely apologize to the entire administrative
team, Especially Khosan and Zifnab. Without either of them Red
Dragon would be a completely different place, and most likely WOULD
NOT EXSIST AT ALL.

I am sorry for the fighting, and I think we should all just calm down for 
a while.

All you guys mean a lot to me, all the wizards, the players and esp.
the admin team whom i have grown to know well over the YEARS we have
all worked together.

I would also like to apologize for not being here for most of last
few years as Red Dragon as grown and matured into the Supermud it is
today.


Sincerely,
Darkstaff

-----------------

poster: Darkstaff
subject: >quick thoughts
date: Sun Mar  3 07:41:54 2002

On Sun Mar  3 06:48:59 2002 Wildchild wrote post #918:
> While this... issue... has already been dragged into the open, I
> hope that most players will refrain from commenting with their
> opinions or in choosing sides and such.
> This is something that needs to be resolved between Darkstaff and
> the admins. Hopefully that will happen quickly and without
> bloodshed.
> 
> Second, I thought that it would be nice for some peeps to know that,
> well, it is in the rules that wizards should not interfere with
> players. Slamming a monster for them and letting them take the eq,
> and a quest no less, would be a pretty big breaking of that rule. If
> we make exceptions to the rules, then we might as well not have
> rules.
> Example: player got nuked for botting, other players jumped to his
> defense crying foul, even though said player accepted it without any
> qualms. It's that simple.
> 
> Also, considering the various sites that this mud has been located
> at, I think we are the most stable where we are now.
> I also don't feel that location is the cause of the lag, but the
> code itself, which is something that is being worked through and
> worked out.
> 
> I don't want to pick sides; I've been here long enough to see all
> sorts of crap from everybody, wizzes and mortals alike, and this is
> a situation that could get ugly in a hurry. I pray it doesn't
> happen, cause even though I'm pretty much retired, I still enjoy
> being logged on here and seeing what's going on. Considering I'm
> helping out on 10k, I'd hate to see my contributions go to waste
> either.
> 
> -WC

Good point WC.
I should never have posted my personal issues with another member of the
admin team on news. I have deleteed my posts and you guys just worry about
having fun.

dark

-----------------

poster: Trance
subject: >Hrm. 
date: Sun Mar  3 07:45:35 2002

On Sun Mar  3 07:23:09 2002 Quillz wrote post #925:
> Ok - way of the drama in this game, but, has anyone ever had ulcers before?
> Something is seriously wrong with my stomach - I'm always in pain,
> and I can't hardly sleep.  
> 
> The pain is like when your starving - right before your stomach
> growls type pain - but it's constant. 
> Havn't eaten regularly for near a week - only 2 real meals and
> mostly just bread/other bland shit. 
> Any advice for a poor suffering soul?
> Q
an old mate of mine lived on Mylanta, dont know if you get it up
there but its available in a liquid form down here. He used to drink
it like it was any regular drink
Hope this helps

ps: I got my permanency contract signed at work the other day, yay!
(just adding to the general soap-opera feel)

-----------------

poster: Darkstaff
subject: >>>Hang on people with power and stuff.
date: Sun Mar  3 08:17:50 2002

On Sun Mar  3 07:38:09 2002 Magneto wrote post #927:
> Well I had a big post ready to go on this but stuff went and freaked.
> 
> Let me sum it up
> DS, you are level 46 with 14 open guild levels and no spells or
> skills over 65%
> I bet you were learning a lot about the mud.  Like it is real easy to
> do exp when you have rockin skills and spells.
> 
> 
> DS you stopped being a factor on this mud when I wizzed.  You stopped being 
> active.  You left a power void and people grew up to fill it.  The mud moved
> on without you.  
> 
> Frankly, I can't for the life of me understand why someone would expect to 
> walk into a project after 3 years of having nothing to do with it and take
> back over.  How long you going to stay active this time?  
> A lot of things can be said about zif, but nobody can deny that he has
worked
> his ass off for this mud for 6 years straight.  If the mud is owned by 
> anyone it should be him.  
> 
> 
> Personally if you don't have a backup of the mud from when you were 
> active I think you should have a copy.  You worked hard on the mud in
> the day.  I am all for letting you have a copy of it.  
> As far as control of the mud, no I don't think you should have that.  
> And if you wan't to take the name which is still registered to you and
> run your own mud go for it.  I do not think that is the best thing for
> the mud.  Splits like this always are hard on the mud.  They kill the
> player base and cause pain and suffering in general.  Really, what is
> your motivation for this?  You have been happy enough w/o control of
> the mud for a long time.  Why rip stuff up now.


I don't want to continute having this dispute on newsgroups, but i will
briefly say I did play, I got up to a pretty good leavel as a healer,
and tried to reinc into level 50, and didnt make it, thus I think that
was a problem with your post.

Also, I'm not going to get in a dispute about who wrote more code here.
It is true that I dont spend much time here anymore, but I did spend a
considerable amount of time here.. I coded a lot of things that go unnoticed.

I will say however that I haven't done one ounce of maintaining the mud..
And I really am grateful to have such a great admin team.

And yes, I would like to be part of Red Dragon again.

I'm sorry that the entire admin team is upset at me.

Darkstaff

-----------------

poster: Bahgtru
subject: RD page
date: Sun Mar  3 08:31:11 2002

The help file for Lizardman race on the RD homepage has the desc as
one line stretching rather wide.

Just thought I'd let ya know in case ya wanna fix it.

- Bag

-----------------

poster: Hierokliff
subject: couldnt resist.
date: Sun Mar  3 09:19:04 2002

Couldnt stay out of it...

Darkstaff, you and Cire are awesome coders, and starters of projects
both the old RD and old Gate was the most fun muds ive ever played...

But neither of you two have done much lately, RD has changed into something
completly else...and gate has dried and died...

I agree that it is your mud, if you want to be God over it, i hope you
get a copy of it and can start a new version of RD...if you wanna be admin
and co-work with the others i hope its not a problem...maybe finally zifnab
can get some of his massive workload moved to someone else...

I know i shouldnt have posted, this aint for mortals...its for the admins
and darkstaff...but been around here for a while, and still havent learned
to STFU when i should...

//Hierokliff

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: old times
date: Sun Mar  3 13:44:02 2002

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----                        Red Dragon, 39 players                  ----
----                        2 wizards, 37 mortals                   ----
----                 1 clanmate, 0 friends, 1 criminal             ----
------------------------------------------------------------------------
<300> Haze        <200> Samael      { 84} Tawnos      [ 70] Athena      
[ 69] Barkley     [ 65] Zaxon       [ 60] Haulk       [ 59] Izabella    
{ 50} Gerrik      [ 48] Psycho      [ 46] Nitemare    [ 45] Khosan      
[ 37].Zaedrax     [ 34] Wildchild   [ 33].Tresserhorn [ 33] Jas         
[ 30] Zwark       [ 29] Miraxas     [ 27] Lamir       [ 27] Seer        
[ 22] Charm       [ 22] HEXUS       [ 22].Troops      [ 20] Fuji        
[ 19] Jimth       [ 19] Serena      [ 19] Tesabner    [ 18] Zu          
[ 15] Bunis       [ 14].Zarp        [ 13] Demize      [ 13] Loriel      
[ 12] Chainsaw    [  6] Ichabod     [  5] Guiedo      [  5] Mikko       
[  4] Tusk        [  4].Xalk        [  1] Guest-1                       
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---- '.'= idle, '-'= >idle, '@'= >>idle      Clan, Friend, CRIMINAL ----
------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: stuff
date: Sun Mar  3 14:46:26 2002

Just wanted to say there was a reason that we made the post 
we did to start this all off.  It was fairly obvious to 
most of the mud that _something_ was not right.  We posted
what had happened, and why, and what our opinions where. 
That is the last of it.

You can say it shouldnt of been drug out in the open, but
IMO it was better than having rumors floating around
that were not true.

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: the plaque Sun Aug 9, 1998
date: Sun Mar  3 14:52:18 2002

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        1)  Tawnos          88              884372823
        2)  Hierokliff      80              534763147
        3)  Melly           76              533501586
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        5)  Zaxon           67              359044601
        6)  Spirum          70              352303749
        7)  Barkley         68              331748085
        8)  Haulk           60              324661488
        9)  Wyrn            66              285685135
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       15)  Gerrik          53              177086481
       16)  Alvin           57              175065204
       17)  Nitemare        52              158858168
       18)  Snoop           56              156480354
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       20)  Rahz            50              136393469
       21)  Astarte         49              136067409
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       32)  Khosan          50               86183667
       33)  Ksarul          48               85212439
       34)  Shiva           48               83614380
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       36)  Swashbuckler    45               80861118
       37)  Jas             43               79536843
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       39)  Javier          47               75875142
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       49)  Puffdaddy       40               54069856
       50)  Carnage         39               49218206
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       53)  Nightfall       25               39154552
       54)  Zamorra         33               36246744
       55)  Yig             33               34203319
       56)  Peace           35               32632806
       57)  Elsdreck        39               32627845
       58)  Sisyphus        33               32575575
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       60)  Faidra          39               31714857
       61)  Teego           33               30283903
       62)  Tresserhorn     26               29321304
       63)  Denel           31               29127291
       64)  Zaedrax         38               28880060
       65)  Zanthos         36               28669969
       66)  Zwark           40               28352004
       67)  Gwyewen         32               27422240
       68)  Jomo            34               27329421
       69)  Nerold          34               23163191
       70)  Imor            32               21427173
       71)  Et              30               21243584
       72)  Bantum          24               21218308
       73)  Nird            32               20282349
       74)  Blender         28               20115689
       75)  Derto           30               20095257
       76)  Onyx            38               20002000
       77)  Fizgig          32               19935997
       78)  Ref             33               19795994
       79)  Turkey          35               19741000
       80)  Lord            26               19286825
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       90)  Tigran          24               15728452
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       122)  Mantan          26                6204588
       123)  Musashi         24                6187991
       124)  Zu              27                6098035
       125)  Tank            22                5906988
       126)  Eros            23                5825162
       127)  Labada          21                5783289
       128)  Skan            22                5757096
       129)  Crispen          1                5754326
       130)  Balinor         21                5519157
       131)  Tesabner        21                5486835
       132)  Hexus           21                5404030
       133)  Tirion          26                5342676
       134)  Max             25                5312790
       135)  Loriel          25                5029538
       136)  Troops          22                4185745
       137)  Pasqualli       22                4174565
       138)  Xphere          24                4159734
       139)  Jaws            19                3909316
       140)  Dusk            25                3905053
       141)  Iago            22                3520447
       142)  Phlinn          22                3511568
       143)  Fishbert        15                3488835
       144)  Fyodor          20                3469657
       145)  Snake           20                3445927
       146)  Ursula          20                3435655
       147)  Brandon         21                3387377
       148)  Tas             20                3329444
       149)  Ghengis         20                3183280
       150)  Heukhom         19                3159591
       151)  Raivenloth      24                3012898
       152)  Mildrip         18                3007086
       153)  Zarp            20                2996036
       154)  Slacher         18                2760361
       155)  Mahorn          21                2693019
       156)  Zeb             20                2672818
       157)  Agaphef         18                2665694
       158)  Zori            21                2664239
       159)  Bigman          20                2626541
       160)  Charm           22                2488794
       161)  Serena          22                2470065
       162)  Kayleen         19                2454675
       163)  Gundi           21                2354833
       164)  Celeborn        19                2278029
       165)  Moonstorm       10                2250995
       166)  Shalafi         19                2246126
       167)  Demize          20                2185196
       168)  Wuzoe           19                2113177
       169)  Daccster        22                2112547
       170)  Judge           18                2073315
       171)  Bremen          21                2038691
       172)  Drefan          17                1952804
       173)  Bigglesworth    21                1821876
       174)  Pike            17                1631700
       175)  Jimth           19                1622075
       176)  Theman          20                1555713
       177)  Krellen         12                1544172
       178)  Thaliard        15                1542157
       179)  Bannor          15                1532691
       180)  Lim             15                1496829
       181)  Alisha          18                1490370
       182)  Ichabod         15                1468868
       183)  Ghostir         12                1434123
       184)  Blake           20                1408836
       185)  Gokuh           18                1381002
       186)  Entreri         18                1377275
       187)  Bafer           20                1340132
       188)  Mitsurugi       15                1331399
       189)  Kutulu          20                1322888
       190)  Mercutio        18                1311083
       191)  Woozy           15                1301411
       192)  Korthrun        20                1301027
       193)  Nathacha         1                1231648
       194)  Shadow          10                1223152
       195)  Aerious         15                1222328
       196)  Irluin          18                1221213
       197)  Terminator      18                1203610
       198)  Vargas          18                1165174
       199)  Glace           13                1154514
       200)  Sniket          15                1139308
       201)  Grond           15                1137274
       202)  Air             19                1122675
       203)  Thomin          15                1121776
       204)  Kahvi           16                1109477
       205)  Smeagol         18                1094541
       206)  Laugher         16                1076027
       207)  Denim           17                1063225
       208)  Curse           17                1049586
       209)  Anacondor       12                1021602
       210)  Mamoru          17                1009989
       211)  Killerangel     16                 997342
       212)  Merlyn          14                 982545
       213)  Psiy            15                 981681
       214)  Doom            18                 981090
       215)  Istaqa          14                 951851
       216)  Glamhedrel      14                 944629
       217)  Mindprobe       15                 929176
       218)  Rambo           15                 918104
       219)  Markul          15                 915243
       220)  Pane            16                 840266
       221)  Texmex          18                 818837
       222)  Ozrg            16                 817401
       223)  Cop             16                 777180
       224)  Bunis           15                 772596
       225)  Teal            14                 763133
       226)  Spear           15                 752524
       227)  Darnyte         12                 721438
       228)  Luc             15                 707858
       229)  Dick            12                 698694
       230)  Leon            16                 692490
       231)  Sekali          12                 682877
       232)  Tywrl           15                 681632
       233)  Arika           13                 666387
       234)  Zunshine        12                 650610
       235)  Popsicle        12                 645185
       236)  Warslut         14                 620109
       237)  Gen             15                 616410
       238)  Pops             7                 613502
       239)  Jordan          14                 592983
       240)  Bosse           14                 588850
       241)  Nordrak         12                 570089
       242)  Burns           15                 561919
       243)  Ganthor         13                 554356
       244)  Grifter         16                 550264
       245)  Shamera         12                 543747
       246)  Maia            13                 528902
       247)  Acinonyx        14                 524831
       248)  Chainsaw        12                 486671
       249)  Afrodite        13                 478055
       250)  Duckford        13                 471763
       251)  Sunstar         14                 471023
       252)  Demented        14                 470635
       253)  Katerina        11                 470044
       254)  Tusk            14                 464689
       255)  Gnos            13                 460945
       256)  Kazulanth       14                 423847
       257)  Cremator        12                 422643
       258)  Konrad          14                 414095
       259)  Morbriner       13                 413097
       260)  Oakie           13                 384886
       261)  Blat            10                 378309
       262)  Kranial         10                 369363
       263)  Gyrick          12                 368747
       264)  Bqz             14                 352695
       265)  Sojourn         11                 352096
       266)  Rateater        11                 337382
       267)  Mongoose        12                 327437
       268)  Tonghong        13                 326361
       269)  Picabo          13                 325542
       270)  Smacky          12                 321525
       271)  Prometheus      11                 319096
       272)  Isildur         13                 316392
       273)  Punch           12                 308835
       274)  Beelzebub       12                 306672
       275)  Myster          14                 296011
       276)  Glorin          13                 287748
       277)  Zone            12                 283605
       278)  Ormac           12                 280149
       279)  Venegar          9                 270663
       280)  Goku            11                 266934
       281)  Rolack          12                 258905
       282)  Flop            13                 253382
       283)  Dicer           12                 250951
       284)  Bierbauch       10                 249093
       285)  Makem            8                 247936
       286)  Harmonie        12                 246333
       287)  Moose           13                 241374
       288)  Gbndr           13                 239415
       289)  Blackcat        11                 235580
       290)  Rico            12                 227852
       291)  Chunli          13                 226041
       292)  Moonstreak      12                 225604
       293)  Whatever        12                 219221
       294)  Morgana         12                 215681
       295)  Anglemar        12                 215255
       296)  Mikko            8                 213157
       297)  Valnir          12                 210484
       298)  Seeker          12                 206767
       299)  Gyver           10                 204446
       300)  Chiteng         10                 200009
       301)  Kumalakala      11                 191229
       302)  Morris          11                 170313
       303)  Vetro           11                 148479
       304)  Smokeybacon     10                 111292
       305)  Jinger          10                  96881
       306)  Speed            9                  80656
       307)  Morg             9                  65334
       308)  Gunthor          8                  47544
       309)  Eod              8                  35434
       310)  Maelstrom        7                  25561
       311)  Gooseneck        7                  25349
       312)  Treydog          7                  19050
       313)  Guiedo           7                  19012
       314)  Filraen          5                  14106
       315)  Gtdyno           6                   8215
       316)  Gynter           1                   7752
       317)  Dyno             5                   6722
       318)  Candlemass       5                   4561
       319)  Jurok            1                   2000
       320)  Gareth           1                   2000
       321)  Mikey            4                   2000
       322)  Dingleberrys     1                   2000


-----------------

poster: Nyx
subject: >wildchilds comment
date: Sun Mar  3 19:06:00 2002

On Sun Mar  3 07:01:25 2002 Blue wrote post #919:
> scream tick!
> well to how you were saying noone should take sides, that last bit
> of the post:
> >Also, considering the various sites that this mud has been located
> >at, I think we are the most stable where we are now.
> scream tock!!
> >I also don't feel that location is the cause of the lag, but the
> >code itself, which is something that is being worked through and
> >worked out.
> say avatar regeneration down!!!!
> Let them worry about like you said, practice what you preach, and
> also that sounds like you are taking sides with khosan but i dont
> care just pointing that out
> *8
> blah
If you are unable to refrain from your ticks littering your posts,
do not post in news.
Nyx

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >Hrm. 
date: Sun Mar  3 20:02:27 2002

On Sun Mar  3 07:23:09 2002 Quillz wrote post #925:
> Ok - way of the drama in this game, but, has anyone ever had ulcers before?
> Something is seriously wrong with my stomach - I'm always in pain,
> and I can't hardly sleep.  
> 
> The pain is like when your starving - right before your stomach
> growls type pain - but it's constant. 
> Havn't eaten regularly for near a week - only 2 real meals and
> mostly just bread/other bland shit. 
> Any advice for a poor suffering soul?
> Q
See a doctor, like right now.  If not sooner.
That's my advice.

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >>Hrm. 
date: Sun Mar  3 20:07:46 2002

On Sun Mar  3 07:45:35 2002 Trance wrote post #930:
> On Sun Mar  3 07:23:09 2002 Quillz wrote post #925:
> > Ok - way of the drama in this game, but, has anyone ever had ulcers
before?
> > Something is seriously wrong with my stomach - I'm always in pain,
> > and I can't hardly sleep.  
> > 
> > The pain is like when your starving - right before your stomach
> > growls type pain - but it's constant. 
> > Havn't eaten regularly for near a week - only 2 real meals and
> > mostly just bread/other bland shit. 
> > Any advice for a poor suffering soul?
> > Q
> an old mate of mine lived on Mylanta, dont know if you get it up
> there but its available in a liquid form down here. He used to drink
> it like it was any regular drink
> Hope this helps
> 
> ps: I got my permanency contract signed at work the other day, yay!
> (just adding to the general soap-opera feel)
Freaky....I got my permanent contract a couple of weeks ago.
Soap opera....does this mean I need to have an affair with my sister
or something?

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >Hrm. 
date: Sun Mar  3 21:55:09 2002

On Sun Mar  3 07:23:09 2002 Quillz wrote post #925:
> Ok - way of the drama in this game, but, has anyone ever had ulcers before?
> Something is seriously wrong with my stomach - I'm always in pain,
> and I can't hardly sleep.  
> 
> The pain is like when your starving - right before your stomach
> growls type pain - but it's constant. 
> Havn't eaten regularly for near a week - only 2 real meals and
> mostly just bread/other bland shit. 
> Any advice for a poor suffering soul?
> Q

I'm not "technically" a licensed physician, but in my professional
opinion, you are pregnant.  Eat lots of chocolate chip mint icecream
and see a gyno next week.

- Arkangyle

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: Mud control
date: Mon Mar  4 01:41:16 2002

Is there anyway to give ds his own copy of the mud and let him run
it his way and let khosan and zifnab run a mud this way so its still
fair in europia or wherever it is now?

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >Hrm. 
date: Mon Mar  4 01:42:26 2002

On Sun Mar  3 07:23:09 2002 Quillz wrote post #925:
> Ok - way of the drama in this game, but, has anyone ever had ulcers before?
> Something is seriously wrong with my stomach - I'm always in pain,
> and I can't hardly sleep.  
> 
> The pain is like when your starving - right before your stomach
> growls type pain - but it's constant. 
> Havn't eaten regularly for near a week - only 2 real meals and
> mostly just bread/other bland shit. 
> Any advice for a poor suffering soul?
> Q
get your doctor to prescribe you nexum... it works miracles
its a purple pill

-----------------

poster: Nyx
subject: >Mud control
date: Mon Mar  4 01:48:11 2002

On Mon Mar  4 01:41:16 2002 Sleet wrote post #941:
> Is there anyway to give ds his own copy of the mud and let him run
> it his way and let khosan and zifnab run a mud this way so its still
> fair in europia or wherever it is now?
That would create a total MUD split and I believe it is what we are
trying to avoid....
Nyx

-----------------

poster: Trance
subject: >>Mud control
date: Mon Mar  4 02:02:45 2002

On Mon Mar  4 01:48:11 2002 Nyx wrote post #943:
> On Mon Mar  4 01:41:16 2002 Sleet wrote post #941:
> > Is there anyway to give ds his own copy of the mud and let him run
> > it his way and let khosan and zifnab run a mud this way so its still
> > fair in europia or wherever it is now?
> That would create a total MUD split and I believe it is what we are
> trying to avoid....
> Nyx

Technically, it would not be so much a mud 'split', but more a
chance to have the two muds evolve in different ways.

(assuming everything was kept as is) At first the two muds would be
extremely similar, but after a while, and with some work, it could
almost be like two different tangents of the same world, or

(assuming the maps, areas, and so forth were scrapped on the new
version, and were started from scratch) some of the problems we have
now with rd, such as an abundance of crappy descs, a complete lack
of linearety (is this a word?) wrt monster types vs. worths, and
quite possibly, it could be kept in a beta stage for a while, for
some totally new ideas to be implemented, while keeping the same
basic structure of how guilds work (because it IS the guilds that
keep people coming back. Generally speaking, areas are the same,
mobs are essentially the same, and pretty much the only things that
are different are descs and a few 'special features' in certain
areas/mobs/eqs.)

Really, its up to dmin and Darkstaff to decide between themselves
what is going to happen, but personally, I like the idea of giving
the mud(s) two ways to evolve. the playerbase has become good sized,
but many of us are getting bored with rd, and there are so few muds
out there that are remotely like this one (offhand I can think of
only 2) for us to go and enjoy, and I dare say that a mud with this
guild structure will always be popular, simply because its different
from prac-based muds.

No matter what happens, RD will stay alive and well, so IMO playing
with the possibility of taking some of the best bits of this mud,
and building a new mud with new concepts around the basic structure
that exists, would not be a bad thing.

-Trance


-----------------

poster: Darkstaff
subject: >>>Mud control
date: Mon Mar  4 02:16:11 2002

On Mon Mar  4 02:02:45 2002 Trance wrote post #944:
> On Mon Mar  4 01:48:11 2002 Nyx wrote post #943:
> > On Mon Mar  4 01:41:16 2002 Sleet wrote post #941:
> > > Is there anyway to give ds his own copy of the mud and let him run
> > > it his way and let khosan and zifnab run a mud this way so its still
> > > fair in europia or wherever it is now?
> > That would create a total MUD split and I believe it is what we are
> > trying to avoid....
> > Nyx
> 
> Technically, it would not be so much a mud 'split', but more a
> chance to have the two muds evolve in different ways.
> 
> (assuming everything was kept as is) At first the two muds would be
> extremely similar, but after a while, and with some work, it could
> almost be like two different tangents of the same world, or
> 
> (assuming the maps, areas, and so forth were scrapped on the new
> version, and were started from scratch) some of the problems we have
> now with rd, such as an abundance of crappy descs, a complete lack
> of linearety (is this a word?) wrt monster types vs. worths, and
> quite possibly, it could be kept in a beta stage for a while, for
> some totally new ideas to be implemented, while keeping the same
> basic structure of how guilds work (because it IS the guilds that
> keep people coming back. Generally speaking, areas are the same,
> mobs are essentially the same, and pretty much the only things that
> are different are descs and a few 'special features' in certain
> areas/mobs/eqs.)
> 
> Really, its up to dmin and Darkstaff to decide between themselves
> what is going to happen, but personally, I like the idea of giving
> the mud(s) two ways to evolve. the playerbase has become good sized,
> but many of us are getting bored with rd, and there are so few muds
> out there that are remotely like this one (offhand I can think of
> only 2) for us to go and enjoy, and I dare say that a mud with this
> guild structure will always be popular, simply because its different
> from prac-based muds.
> 
> No matter what happens, RD will stay alive and well, so IMO playing
> with the possibility of taking some of the best bits of this mud,
> and building a new mud with new concepts around the basic structure
> that exists, would not be a bad thing.
> 
> -Trance
> 

It also would mean the admin team would talk to me, which they dont and havent
been... but i could understand why they wouldnt want me to have RD...

Again, these guys have been working very hard on RD for quite some time. I can
understand how they would consider me a pest ATM... but I would like to talk
to them. Hopefully after some time, they will calm down and talk to me.

Its hard not to feel completely rejected.

Darkstaff

-----------------

poster: Kaos
subject: >Mud control
date: Mon Mar  4 02:28:40 2002

On Mon Mar  4 01:41:16 2002 Sleet wrote post #941:
> Is there anyway to give ds his own copy of the mud and let him run
> it his way and let khosan and zifnab run a mud this way so its still
> fair in europia or wherever it is now?
europia is that thing outside america, donno if you have heard about it.

-----------------

poster: Nyx
subject: >>>Mud control
date: Mon Mar  4 03:07:44 2002

On Mon Mar  4 02:02:45 2002 Trance wrote post #944:
> On Mon Mar  4 01:48:11 2002 Nyx wrote post #943:
> > On Mon Mar  4 01:41:16 2002 Sleet wrote post #941:
> > > Is there anyway to give ds his own copy of the mud and let him run
> > > it his way and let khosan and zifnab run a mud this way so its still
> > > fair in europia or wherever it is now?
> > That would create a total MUD split and I believe it is what we are
> > trying to avoid....
> > Nyx
> 
> Technically, it would not be so much a mud 'split', but more a
> chance to have the two muds evolve in different ways.
> 
> (assuming everything was kept as is) At first the two muds would be
> extremely similar, but after a while, and with some work, it could
> almost be like two different tangents of the same world, or
> 
> (assuming the maps, areas, and so forth were scrapped on the new
> version, and were started from scratch) some of the problems we have
> now with rd, such as an abundance of crappy descs, a complete lack
> of linearety (is this a word?) wrt monster types vs. worths, and
> quite possibly, it could be kept in a beta stage for a while, for
> some totally new ideas to be implemented, while keeping the same
> basic structure of how guilds work (because it IS the guilds that
> keep people coming back. Generally speaking, areas are the same,
> mobs are essentially the same, and pretty much the only things that
> are different are descs and a few 'special features' in certain
> areas/mobs/eqs.)
> 
> Really, its up to dmin and Darkstaff to decide between themselves
> what is going to happen, but personally, I like the idea of giving
> the mud(s) two ways to evolve. the playerbase has become good sized,
> but many of us are getting bored with rd, and there are so few muds
> out there that are remotely like this one (offhand I can think of
> only 2) for us to go and enjoy, and I dare say that a mud with this
> guild structure will always be popular, simply because its different
> from prac-based muds.
> 
> No matter what happens, RD will stay alive and well, so IMO playing
> with the possibility of taking some of the best bits of this mud,
> and building a new mud with new concepts around the basic structure
> that exists, would not be a bad thing.
> 
> -Trance
> 
I wanted to mostly stay out of this, however, since there is talk by
players, and coders alike, of what would happen were Darkstaff given
his own copy of the MUD to re-vamp as he pleases, I wish to say my
peace. 
I believe Darkstaff is in fact entitled to a copy of HIS mud. The
one he helped create, and helped advance. I think that is fair.
However, I do not believe he is entitled to a copy of THIS mud. One
where many people have contributed and helped advance. One that he
does not maintain or helped advance in the last few years. 
My reasons for saying this are not to be mean or cruel, but because
I for one, made my contributions to THIS mud. I made my areas, eq,
monsters, guild halls, for this mud. Not for an offshoot. And maybe
I am the only one, but I would like to believe that there are at
least of few others who feel the same way. You say in theory it
would be the same MUD that gets to evolve in two ways and how great
that would be. But I see it as a splitting of worlds. And I did not
sign on to code for two MUDs. I signed on to code for this one, and
this one only. 
So I am all for Darkstaff getting his copy of his MUD, but I decline
to have anything I created go with that copy.
Nyx

-----------------

poster: Fezzick
subject: >>Hrm. 
date: Mon Mar  4 05:54:17 2002

On Sun Mar  3 20:02:27 2002 Tahnval wrote post #938:
> On Sun Mar  3 07:23:09 2002 Quillz wrote post #925:
> > Ok - way of the drama in this game, but, has anyone ever had ulcers
before?
> > Something is seriously wrong with my stomach - I'm always in pain,
> > and I can't hardly sleep.  
> > 
> > The pain is like when your starving - right before your stomach
> > growls type pain - but it's constant. 
> > Havn't eaten regularly for near a week - only 2 real meals and
> > mostly just bread/other bland shit. 
> > Any advice for a poor suffering soul?
> > Q
> See a doctor, like right now.  If not sooner.
> That's my advice.
PS right now...as in yesterday and stuff *prod*

-----------------

poster: Rancor
subject: Darkstaff
date: Mon Mar  4 12:22:52 2002

Ok I may not be a person that has been here since the olden days. 
But as of recently I am a very regular player and have gotten to
know alot of people on this mud.  I while back darkstaff ask to
party on the parties channel.  He was a harmer at the time and well
he healed me while I threw potions.  
My point is that we got to talking.  HE told me that he acepted his
punnishment for the whole tiamat thing and in all honesty want to
get to know the players and what the mud is today alot better.  
WE also got to talking about the state themud is in now and well as
he stated he has a notbook full of ideas.
I don't know what is specificly going on right now but my guess
would be that the admins are ignoring darkstaff atm.  I think this
is wrong.  If you guy's are going to ignore him then what was the
point of makinghim a mortal again.  If you are going to ignore him
just because it is darkstaff well that is wrong.  You offer out
builder permits and all that to players that apply.  But if you are
going to ignore any valid ideas that darkstaff has, you are then
holding the mud back.  Personally I think if he wants to come back
in and code/admin more power to him.
Of course this must be done in a controlled format and he can not
make changes without others knowing.  But there is a lot of stuff
that needs to be done around here many, many, guilds do not have a
place to call home and do I dare bring up strongholds.   
All I am saying is you can not deny needing the help and well you
can not ignore valid idea's for the mud.  
Rancor

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: >Darkstaff
date: Mon Mar  4 14:41:46 2002

On Mon Mar  4 12:22:52 2002 Rancor wrote post #949:
> Ok I may not be a person that has been here since the olden days. 
> But as of recently I am a very regular player and have gotten to
> know alot of people on this mud.  I while back darkstaff ask to
> party on the parties channel.  He was a harmer at the time and well
> he healed me while I threw potions.  
> My point is that we got to talking.  HE told me that he acepted his
> punnishment for the whole tiamat thing and in all honesty want to
> get to know the players and what the mud is today alot better.  
> WE also got to talking about the state themud is in now and well as
> he stated he has a notbook full of ideas.
> I don't know what is specificly going on right now but my guess
> would be that the admins are ignoring darkstaff atm.  I think this
> is wrong.  If you guy's are going to ignore him then what was the
> point of makinghim a mortal again.  If you are going to ignore him
> just because it is darkstaff well that is wrong.  You offer out
> builder permits and all that to players that apply.  But if you are
> going to ignore any valid ideas that darkstaff has, you are then
> holding the mud back.  Personally I think if he wants to come back
> in and code/admin more power to him.
> Of course this must be done in a controlled format and he can not
> make changes without others knowing.  But there is a lot of stuff
> that needs to be done around here many, many, guilds do not have a
> place to call home and do I dare bring up strongholds.   
> All I am saying is you can not deny needing the help and well you
> can not ignore valid idea's for the mud.  
> Rancor

You have no clue what you are talking about. Why do you and others
think someone who has done next to nothing for many years, suddenly
will be become a one man army? Darkstaff has not even claimed so
himself.

I suggest you read my inform post again. It is not about punishment. It
is about a management team that just doesn't work as a team any longer.
Something _HAS_ to change, that is final. It has come down to either
Darkstaff leaves, or I and probably other team members leave. Things
like this happens every day in companies too. You can't have a management
team that can't agree on the goals for the company (or game).

You have unrealistic expectations to what it takes to run a game like this.
Making a wishlist of 50 things you want to change, does not make those
changes become reality. Nor does it make them all good changes. Ideas more
often than not conflict. Yelling stronghold doesn't give you strongholds
next day (I tried).

Khosan

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: Road Trip!
date: Tue Mar  5 00:20:38 2002

Woot - I got a wild hair up my ass again!
I want to go to Florida.  
Probably be traveling out east then south.  
Anyone who lives between Minnesota and Florida (somewhat east-ish)
that would want to meet up and hang out for a little while, lemme
know. 
This is not set in stone, I stil have to scrounge up for some cash.  
But that shouldn't be too much of a problem.  
So, if I know you, or you know me, or we've talked before and you
wanna meet irl, let me know. 
Just a warning - I'm big, ugly and I smell funny.  Hehe j/k :-)
Q-the voyager!

-----------------

poster: Malice
subject: something else to think about
date: Tue Mar  5 01:38:32 2002

Since everyone else feels the need to comment
on this crap - here's my two cents...
While the situation doesn't appear (can't 
say I know for sure) too terribly bad - all
the posts about it, whether for or against,
most likely do not help matters any. More 
likely, they only cloud the issue and raise
tempers.

This is a game. Play it. Have fun. Take
things as they come and stop trying to 
influence things that you don't have any
control over.
I for one am tired of reading all the crap
about it when most of it is nothing but
speculation and feelings and does nothing
but hinder the mud.
Malice

-----------------

poster: Litho
subject: >Road Trip!
date: Tue Mar  5 01:40:08 2002

Hawaii is between Minnesota and Florida right?, k cool, pick me up

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >Road Trip!
date: Tue Mar  5 02:19:14 2002

On Tue Mar  5 00:20:38 2002 Quillz wrote post #951:
> Woot - I got a wild hair up my ass again!
> I want to go to Florida.  
> Probably be traveling out east then south.  
> Anyone who lives between Minnesota and Florida (somewhat east-ish)
> that would want to meet up and hang out for a little while, lemme
> know. 
> This is not set in stone, I stil have to scrounge up for some cash.  
> But that shouldn't be too much of a problem.  
> So, if I know you, or you know me, or we've talked before and you
> wanna meet irl, let me know. 
> Just a warning - I'm big, ugly and I smell funny.  Hehe j/k :-)
> Q-the voyager!

What happened to Colorado, bunghole?

-WC

-----------------

poster: Darkstaff
subject: >>Darkstaff
date: Tue Mar  5 04:09:29 2002

On Mon Mar  4 14:41:46 2002 Khosan wrote post #950:
> On Mon Mar  4 12:22:52 2002 Rancor wrote post #949:
> > Ok I may not be a person that has been here since the olden days. 
> > But as of recently I am a very regular player and have gotten to
> > know alot of people on this mud.  I while back darkstaff ask to
> > party on the parties channel.  He was a harmer at the time and well
> > he healed me while I threw potions.  
> > My point is that we got to talking.  HE told me that he acepted his
> > punnishment for the whole tiamat thing and in all honesty want to
> > get to know the players and what the mud is today alot better.  
> > WE also got to talking about the state themud is in now and well as
> > he stated he has a notbook full of ideas.
> > I don't know what is specificly going on right now but my guess
> > would be that the admins are ignoring darkstaff atm.  I think this
> > is wrong.  If you guy's are going to ignore him then what was the
> > point of makinghim a mortal again.  If you are going to ignore him
> > just because it is darkstaff well that is wrong.  You offer out
> > builder permits and all that to players that apply.  But if you are
> > going to ignore any valid ideas that darkstaff has, you are then
> > holding the mud back.  Personally I think if he wants to come back
> > in and code/admin more power to him.
> > Of course this must be done in a controlled format and he can not
> > make changes without others knowing.  But there is a lot of stuff
> > that needs to be done around here many, many, guilds do not have a
> > place to call home and do I dare bring up strongholds.   
> > All I am saying is you can not deny needing the help and well you
> > can not ignore valid idea's for the mud.  
> > Rancor
> 
> You have no clue what you are talking about. Why do you and others
> think someone who has done next to nothing for many years, suddenly
> will be become a one man army? Darkstaff has not even claimed so
> himself.
> 
> I suggest you read my inform post again. It is not about punishment. It
> is about a management team that just doesn't work as a team any longer.
> Something _HAS_ to change, that is final. It has come down to either
> Darkstaff leaves, or I and probably other team members leave. Things
> like this happens every day in companies too. You can't have a management
> team that can't agree on the goals for the company (or game).
> 
> You have unrealistic expectations to what it takes to run a game like this.
> Making a wishlist of 50 things you want to change, does not make those
> changes become reality. Nor does it make them all good changes. Ideas more
> often than not conflict. Yelling stronghold doesn't give you strongholds
> next day (I tried).
> 
> Khosan

I think there are other options that can be considered.
I also think we should all calm down and get this topic off news.

Dark

-----------------

poster: Darkstaff
subject: coding questions
date: Tue Mar  5 04:16:34 2002

I got a tell today from someone asking for some coding help..

If you guys have any questions, please feel free to mudmail me... 

I'll do my best to answer :)

-Dark

-----------------

poster: Dalak
subject: >Road Trip!
date: Tue Mar  5 20:29:57 2002

On Tue Mar  5 00:20:38 2002 Quillz wrote post #951:
> Woot - I got a wild hair up my ass again!
> I want to go to Florida.  
> Probably be traveling out east then south.  
> Anyone who lives between Minnesota and Florida (somewhat east-ish)
> that would want to meet up and hang out for a little while, lemme
> know. 
> This is not set in stone, I stil have to scrounge up for some cash.  
> But that shouldn't be too much of a problem.  
> So, if I know you, or you know me, or we've talked before and you
> wanna meet irl, let me know. 
> Just a warning - I'm big, ugly and I smell funny.  Hehe j/k :-)
> Q-the voyager!
no he isnt kidding.  He is big, ugly and smells funny.  For real.  I
already met him irl.  Oh btw Q, take the california detour and we
will party :)
Dal-Hoor

-----------------

poster: Jimerson
subject: BloodKnights
date: Wed Mar  6 07:14:49 2002

Clan Bloodknights now has 2 open spots for recruitment. You have to
meet the following conditions.

1.) Fun to talk to.
2.) Don't mind being the butt-end of a joke
3.) Likes light beatings.
4.) Worth between 25M - 100M
5.) Preferably blaster type since we allready have everything else
that we need.
6.) Anyone can apply.

If interested send me a mail.


Jim

-----------------

poster: Nyx
subject: MIA
date: Sat Mar  9 08:20:06 2002

I wont be around for awhile. I am sad. But I will try to get back ASAP.
Because PacBell is stupid, we no longer have DSL and are unable to
get cable. And since we dont have the money to run a t1 in, and dial
up with three people on the line is basically just sad, I wont be
here for awhile. We are hoping to move asap, but we will see. So
yeah. Miss ya.
Nyx

-----------------

poster: Lurch
subject: Road trip
date: Sun Mar 10 10:17:38 2002

Hey, I'm big, ugly, and smell funny too. Must be a lot of us around.

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: sigh
date: Mon Mar 11 10:14:10 2002

Once againn my high hopes for a road trip have been vaporized before my eyes. 
Won't go into reason shwy I cant, as several came up.  
sorry ya'll, I was really looking gforward rt...fuckingtelnet.
was really looking forward to going.  
Q

-----------------

poster: Javier
subject: New Orleans, April 26.
date: Mon Mar 11 19:01:37 2002

My friend and I will be driving to New Orleans to see Counting Crows
perform at the Jazz Festival on April 26....if anyone lives in the
area and would be willing to put us up for the night of the 26, we
would greatly appreciatre it. In return, I'd be happy to pay for a
Jazz Festival ticket and you can come with us. mudmail me. Thanks.
Javi

-----------------

poster: Zax
subject: >New Orleans, April 26.
date: Tue Mar 12 01:20:28 2002

is your friend a chick and is she good looking?

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: bored engineer
date: Tue Mar 12 05:53:04 2002

As some of you know, I've been extremely unlucky in EQ dice lately..
10/13 parties I have dice last or second to last since I reinced
evoker.  I'm not bitching or moaning, but for the hell of it, I
wrote a monte carlo simulation to figure out what the odds of this
happening are.  It creates 13 random numbers from 1-10 (representing
a 13 dice rolls in parties of 10 ppl), then checks the set to see if
10 of the 13 numbers are <2, if so it adds 1 to a counter and
continues for i iterations (i used 1,000,000 for my tests). 
Anyways, i ran it 5 times at a million iterations each and got
(17,15,14,16,14) times out of a million that this would happen...
thats an average of 15.2/1,000,000 which is an estimated  .00152%
chance of this happening.  Damn I'm lucky.
art
(if your interested, finger me for the code)

-----------------

poster: Javier
subject: >>New Orleans, April 26.
date: Tue Mar 12 22:19:38 2002

On Tue Mar 12 01:20:28 2002 Zax wrote post #964:
> is your friend a chick and is she good looking?
She's a 250 pound lesbian.

-----------------

poster: Daran
subject: >>>New Orleans, April 26.
date: Tue Mar 12 23:21:08 2002

On Tue Mar 12 22:19:38 2002 Javier wrote post #966:
> On Tue Mar 12 01:20:28 2002 Zax wrote post #964:
> > is your friend a chick and is she good looking?
> She's a 250 pound lesbian.
Oooooooo, I'm a 150lb lesbian. Can I come?

-----------------

poster: Bluemoon
subject: All this Jazz
date: Tue Mar 12 23:50:08 2002

Ok, personally I think all these posts about Darkstaff and whats
happeneing with the mud have gotten a little out of hand
So I might as well add to it.
Personally, I feel we are all entitled to our opinions, and most of
you feel the same way
We can sit here and bitch/moan/whine/throw in our two cents about
what should be done with the mud and about darkstaff coding and
whatnot
But do you think it really matters?
This is something the admins deal with, and frankly I dont think
anything a mortal says is going to change that.
They will make their decision based on what they feel will work best
for the MUD, not off of bitching and rants from mortals.
Bluemoon

"Faith is the evidence of things unseen..."

-----------------

poster: Zax
subject: >>>New Orleans, April 26.
date: Wed Mar 13 01:31:20 2002

On Tue Mar 12 22:19:38 2002 Javier wrote post #966:
> On Tue Mar 12 01:20:28 2002 Zax wrote post #964:
> > is your friend a chick and is she good looking?
> She's a 250 pound lesbian.
is that a yes?

-----------------

poster: Nightfall
subject: >All this Jazz
date: Wed Mar 13 01:31:30 2002


    After reading this post I find myself needing to say something.
Not about the before mentioned crap, but more about the things said at
the end.

    Many of us go through and read the news, but I don't think enough
is actually understood.  Bluemoon stated:

>They will make their decision based on what they feel will work best
>for the MUD, not off of bitching and rants from mortals.

    This and a few comments from players online at the time had me 
thinking that this is way too true.  I know this was not the reason 
that news was put into the game for.  I feel that everyone should make
an effort to read and understand each post, especially if they are 
thinking they want to respond to it.  Instead of quickly posting a 
reply that is either 'bitching' or totally off base because they didn't
understand the post (this happens a LOT), why not try a little thing
known as constructive criticism and comments.

    Constructive criticisms are the only way to encourage a helpful
discussion of the topic.  Comments can be you agree, disagree, why, 
etc, not the 'bitching' we have now.  You can refrain, you only degrade
other opinions that you have in the eyes of the staff.  Why bother?

    I feel that this is the main reason that players discussed things
such as time limits and gold costs for posting news.  We respond to 
quickly without reading and understanding each other.  News is spammed
with a lot of useless rants, maybe we could try understanding each
other just a little bit.

  -NF


-----------------

poster: Athena
subject: Something for you young thangs to think about.
date: Wed Mar 13 05:39:21 2002



How old is Granpa? Stay with this...the answer is at the end..it
will blow you away.

One evening a grandson was talking to his grandfather bout current
events. The grandson asked his grandfather what he thought about
the shootings at schools, the computer age, and just things in
general.

The grandad replied, "Well, let me think a minute. I was born before
television, penicillin,polio shots, frozen foods, Xerox, contact
lenses, Frisbees and the pill.

There was no radar, credit cards,laser beams or ball point pens.
Man had not invented pantyhose, air conditioners, dishwashers,
clothes dryers, and the clothes were hung out to dry in the fresh
air and man hadnt yet walked on the moon.

Your grandmother and I got married first and then lived together. 
Every family had a mother and father.

Until I was 25, I called every  man older than me Sir and after I 
turned 25, I still called policemen and every man with a title, Sir.

We were before gay-rights, computer dating, dual careers, daycare
centers, and group therapy. Our lives were governed by the Ten
Commandments, good judment and common sense.

We were taught to know the difference between right and wrong and
to stand up and take responsibility for our actions. Serving your
country was a privilege; living in this country was a bigger
privilege.

We thought fast food was what people ate during Lent. Having a 
meaningful relationship meant getting along with your cousins.

Draft dodgers were people who closed their front doors when the 
evening breeze started. Time-sharing meant time with family
spent together in the evenings and weekends, not purchasing
condominiums.

We never heard of FM radios, tape decks, CDs, electric typewriters,
yogurt,or guys wearing earrings. WE listened to the Big Bands, Jack
Benny and the Presidents speeches on our radios. And I dont ever 
remember any kid blowing his brains out listening to Tommy Dorsey.

If you saw anything with "Made in Japan" on it, it was junk.
The term 'making-out' referred to how you did on your school exam.
Pizza Hut, McDonalds and instant coffee were unheard of. We had
5 and 10 cent store where you could actually buy things for 5 and 
10 cents.

Ice cream cones, phone calls, rides on a streetcar and a Pepsi were
all a nickel. And if you didnt want to splurge, you could spend
your nickel on enough stamps to mail 1 letter and 2 postcards.

You could buy a new Chevy Coupe for $600, but who could afford one?
Too bad, becuase gas was 11 cents a gallon. IN my day, grass was mowed
coke was a cola drink, pot was something you mother cooked in and
rock music was your grandmothers lullaby.

Aids were helpers in the principals office, chip meant piece of wood,
hardware was found in the hardware store and software wasnt even a 
word.

And we were the last generation to actually believe that a lady
needed a husband to have a baby.

No wonder people call us 'old and confused' and say there is a 
generation gap.  How old do you think I am??

This man would be 58 yrs old.



p.s. thought you all might get a kick out of this. Gives you an idea
of what things were like when the 'old geezers of RD' were born. :P



-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >Something for you young thangs to think about.
date: Wed Mar 13 07:55:18 2002

So this granpa guy was zif right?

-----------------

poster: Mefeet
subject: KITTENS!!
date: Wed Mar 13 22:13:23 2002

I am getting kittens this friday. A boy and a girl, 4 months old.
They are brother and sister. Gimme name ideas, kids!
Love,
Mefeetses

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >KITTENS!!
date: Wed Mar 13 23:50:45 2002

On Wed Mar 13 22:13:23 2002 Mefeet wrote post #973:
> I am getting kittens this friday. A boy and a girl, 4 months old.
> They are brother and sister. Gimme name ideas, kids!
> Love,
> Mefeetses
Masa and Mune..
the female would be Mune of course:)
art

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: >KITTENS!!
date: Wed Mar 13 23:59:43 2002

Name the female Athena.

-----------------

poster: Tamuli
subject: >KITTENS
date: Thu Mar 14 00:37:15 2002

my kittens name is athena :)

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>New Orleans, April 26.
date: Thu Mar 14 00:42:57 2002

On Tue Mar 12 22:19:38 2002 Javier wrote post #966:
> On Tue Mar 12 01:20:28 2002 Zax wrote post #964:
> > is your friend a chick and is she good looking?
> She's a 250 pound lesbian.
lesbian eh? hmmmm

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>Something for you young thangs to think about.
date: Thu Mar 14 00:46:02 2002

On Wed Mar 13 07:55:18 2002 Magneto wrote post #972:
> So this granpa guy was zif right?
nah think it was nax

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>KITTENS!!
date: Thu Mar 14 00:46:29 2002

On Wed Mar 13 23:50:45 2002 Artea wrote post #974:
> On Wed Mar 13 22:13:23 2002 Mefeet wrote post #973:
> > I am getting kittens this friday. A boy and a girl, 4 months old.
> > They are brother and sister. Gimme name ideas, kids!
> > Love,
> > Mefeetses
> Masa and Mune..
> the female would be Mune of course:)
> art
sifil and clamida

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >bored engineer
date: Thu Mar 14 00:53:16 2002

On Tue Mar 12 05:53:04 2002 Artea wrote post #965:
> As some of you know, I've been extremely unlucky in EQ dice lately..
> 10/13 parties I have dice last or second to last since I reinced
> evoker.  I'm not bitching or moaning, but for the hell of it, I
> wrote a monte carlo simulation to figure out what the odds of this
> happening are.  It creates 13 random numbers from 1-10 (representing
> a 13 dice rolls in parties of 10 ppl), then checks the set to see if
> 10 of the 13 numbers are <2, if so it adds 1 to a counter and
> continues for i iterations (i used 1,000,000 for my tests). 
> Anyways, i ran it 5 times at a million iterations each and got
> (17,15,14,16,14) times out of a million that this would happen...
> thats an average of 15.2/1,000,000 which is an estimated  .00152%
> chance of this happening.  Damn I'm lucky.
> art
> (if your interested, finger me for the code)

*coughs* a "real" engineer would have simply applied the laws of
basic probability ... or at least I would hope they would :)

-----------------

poster: Zavier
subject: >KITTENS!!
date: Thu Mar 14 00:56:30 2002

Name then Siffle and Ollie =]
love Zav

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >KITTENS!!
date: Thu Mar 14 01:01:04 2002

On Wed Mar 13 22:13:23 2002 Mefeet wrote post #973:
> I am getting kittens this friday. A boy and a girl, 4 months old.
> They are brother and sister. Gimme name ideas, kids!
> Love,
> Mefeetses

Could you please provide us with coloration patterns, as well as
possibly some known mannerisms/enjoyed activies to help me help
you?

-----------------

poster: Litho
subject: >>KITTENS!!
date: Thu Mar 14 01:41:49 2002

Name the kitten Faile (female), and Loial (male)

-----------------

poster: Mefeet
subject: >>KITTENS!!
date: Thu Mar 14 01:49:54 2002

I'm not looking for some specific name ideas, just in
pirations...... I haven't met the kittens yet! Silly Ark.. Thanks
for the ideas so far, keep them coming! Uno, I'm waiting on you, you
absurd sonofabitch

Heh.

Loveses,
Mefeet *yourfavoritefeet&

-----------------

poster: Zavier
subject: >>>KITTENS!!
date: Thu Mar 14 05:14:05 2002

Ooo Litho! Good choices =] (Though I still Think Siffel and Ollie
ROCK) {anyone remember Siffel and Ollie?}

-----------------

poster: Litho
subject: >>>>KITTENS!!
date: Thu Mar 14 05:14:35 2002

the sock puppets?
from jim brewer show...rock

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: >>>>KITTENS!!
date: Thu Mar 14 05:15:08 2002

nodnod.. those insane sock puppets on mtv.

-----------------

poster: Zavier
subject: >>>>>KITTENS!!
date: Thu Mar 14 05:16:07 2002

On Thu Mar 14 05:14:35 2002 Litho wrote post #986:
> the sock puppets?
> from jim brewer show...rock
ROCK! {Sex Girl episode "Baby, everythink I'm about to do to you...
I learned at Seaworld."}

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>KITTENS!!
date: Thu Mar 14 06:26:58 2002

HOOLT SHIT, mother fuckin yoda and shit... i havent seen siffle aqnd
ollie in ages, why the hell was that show taken of air anyway,
g-spot the thug ws friggin hilarios
-lu

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>KITTENS!!
date: Thu Mar 14 06:27:25 2002

name them both lu
-lu

-----------------

poster: Trunks
subject: >>>>KITTENS!!
date: Thu Mar 14 06:28:10 2002

On Thu Mar 14 06:27:25 2002 Lu wrote post #990:
> name them both lu
> -lu
nono lu and lubabe

-----------------

poster: Fox
subject: June, 1999
date: Thu Mar 14 11:43:20 2002

            Name          Level        Experience

        1)  Hierokliff     105             1725437685
        2)  Melly            1             1185932160
        3)  Alvin           93             1015997414
        4)  Barkley         88              815480192
        5)  Snoop           86              730982062
        6)  Mixer           83              702459540
        7)  Cloud           83              644498912
        8)  Phire           78              642504049
        9)  Zane            55              620176245
       10)  Bremen          82              556207788
       11)  Raunk           81              553564203
       12)  Torque          70              553236775
       13)  Grendel         58              491342738
       14)  Uno             80              488936743
       15)  Spirum          64              469205369
       16)  Pasqualli       73              462779940
       17)  Antiochus       76              450499056
       18)  Dfalt           75              443408247
       19)  Dirk            77              432846608
       20)  Ksarul          76              410101391
       21)  Tas             76              403434765
       22)  Gerrik          66              380059927
       23)  Nitemare        67              359983773
       24)  Thrain          66              342776002
       25)  Zaedrax         68              337565992
       26)  Qalor           60              324527955
       27)  Scarlet         69              309896744
       28)  Elsdreck        70              292436828
       29)  Faidra          66              277392329
       30)  Apathy          53              273549075
       31)  Caliban         60              255043183
       32)  Ref             61              253956970
       33)  Sigtest         55              223019568
       34)  Dalak           62              221014218
       35)  Killaaz         55              220287875
       36)  Kaeber          65              218905396
       37)  Azmodan         55              214702524
       38)  Aphazel         57              214523071
       39)  Astarte         58              212782176
       40)  Jas             50              206716513
       41)  Raw             58              205560706
       42)  Tomten          58              205334857
       43)  Biorn           55              183314888
       44)  Balinor         53              167307286
       45)  Nightfall       53              158383744
       46)  Psyko           52              153768628
       47)  Demize          60              148476432
       48)  Sakana          54              148174840
       49)  Aleila          62              148037863
       50)  Puffdaddy       41              146533539
       51)  Rewq            54              144367143
       52)  Fortran         49              141167776
       53)  Puc              1              137325280
       54)  Guacamole       55              134195936
       55)  Psyche          55              132061130
       56)  Hexus           50              131139939
       57)  Raynbow         53              124550777
       58)  Bantum          51              123593256
       59)  Golte           49              119893002
       60)  Zarp            50              118733886
       61)  Kazulanth       53              116880051
       62)  Jomo            49              111394604
       63)  Mirrim          46              107299933
       64)  Terminator      55              106901377
       65)  Damelon         42              106125247
       66)  Auriga          41               93061127
       67)  Sisyphus        51               91210311
       68)  Tex             47               90333120
       69)  Lamir           49               87836491
       70)  Denel            1               87189984
       71)  Seer            50               86922166
       72)  Wildchild       45               82322411
       73)  Flyxx           40               78626211
       74)  Arnoth          50               78595048
       75)  Famine          51               78323964
       76)  Tistoo          49               75095352
       77)  Tresserhorn      1               74411200
       78)  Mindprobe       47               70881027
       79)  Warchief        41               69896174
       80)  Nird            48               69031499
       81)  Rodo            43               66582779
       82)  Lord            34               65871412
       83)  Mitsurugi       43               60539713
       84)  Bean            33               57606318
       85)  Zen             50               55980252
       86)  Rambo           47               52450282
       87)  Fox             42               52363810
       88)  Tesabner        42               48628409
       89)  Zorker          40               47405699
       90)  Klimax          42               46846984
       91)  Moonstreak      39               45480656
       92)  Blix            42               43081653
       93)  Bigglesworth    39               41874751
       94)  Javier          34               41453165
       95)  Foma            34               41142242
       96)  Austin          41               38986477
       97)  Pepin           42               38751713
       98)  Jordali         43               38417278
       99)  Zeb             40               36833949
       100)  Psycho          50               36121483
       101)  Zori            39               36016991
       102)  Kail             1               35741384
       103)  Raiden          36               34678218
       104)  Warsong          1               33307796
       105)  Divet            1               32582008
       106)  Squrttle        31               32186487
       107)  Max             32               31800176
       108)  Smee            34               31031321
       109)  Delerious       34               29866314
       110)  Tantrum         40               28529862
       111)  Koma            30               28520326
       112)  Frogmann        35               27887955
       113)  Racklanim        1               27861116
       114)  Imor             1               26656616
       115)  Gailin          36               26572208
       116)  Katerina        37               24617955
       117)  Blender         39               22790056
       118)  Larssi           1               22701962
       119)  Sha              1               22146864
       120)  Origon          36               21794558
       121)  Valkil          29               21380724
       122)  Sniket          27               21255692
       123)  Kadgar          37               21251761
       124)  Zaxxon          32               21051177
       125)  Musashi          1               20627688
       126)  Onyx             1               20002000
       127)  Helphyre        37               19721242
       128)  Zu              32               15971849
       129)  Debacle         31               15856945
       130)  Calindor        33               15527798
       131)  Abtest          45               15336718
       132)  Lenny            1               15197565
       133)  Fyodor          30               14586796
       134)  Acinonyx        27               14010942
       135)  Drutt           30               13793257
       136)  Warren          32               13394155
       137)  Red             32               13228017
       138)  Cavia            1               12857423
       139)  Telarus         17               12200184
       140)  Zentar          26               11537161
       141)  Quillz          30               11376510
       142)  Mytest           1               11073853
       143)  Bile            27               10858930
       144)  Wik             32               10454178
       145)  Vlaadam         30                9988710
       146)  Locke           30                9725018
       147)  Vargas          28                9676745
       148)  Phife           30                9673026
       149)  Dram            31                9400758
       150)  Wimwam          30                9351962
       151)  Smacky          39                9038159
       152)  Jimth           27                9003721
       153)  Zorn            20                8840528
       154)  Spear           27                8720322
       155)  Fishbert         1                8591602
       156)  Spikey          22                8432839
       157)  Diablo           1                8209744
       158)  Sleip           27                7947725
       159)  Zore            30                7749169
       160)  Warrowarr       26                7434818
       161)  Chuckerbuck      1                7398647
       162)  Bajumbo         25                7237541
       163)  Macdeath        23                7120438
       164)  Tirion           1                7107065
       165)  Grinch          27                7097503
       166)  Scyth           28                7093438
       167)  Hakan           21                6915413
       168)  Hands           23                6794922
       169)  Warslut         24                6560084
       170)  Gtdyno          16                6503329
       171)  Sunflare        23                6471565
       172)  Sirk            27                6410728
       173)  Troops           1                6361754
       174)  Onion           19                5884195
       175)  Skan            20                5762306
       176)  Pain             1                5405006
       177)  Siffar          24                5389523
       178)  Psyker          30                5368369
       179)  Bosse            1                5173908
       180)  Kayleen         24                5069612
       181)  Cordelia        26                4938566
       182)  Azagthot        22                4747904
       183)  Rasp            26                4576407
       184)  Pistvakt        24                4541182
       185)  Jawz            25                3979342
       186)  Dusk            28                3905053
       187)  Alisha          21                3872623
       188)  Xphere          26                3804137
       189)  Denim           24                3738626
       190)  Crosslash       22                3733565
       191)  Leviathon       23                3686355
       192)  Shuga            1                3474098
       193)  Nyarlathotep    20                3454721
       194)  Ursula          31                3435655
       195)  Averon          23                3376506
       196)  Mamoru          22                3372450
       197)  Crack            1                3337575
       198)  Reamus          24                3144801
       199)  Thundor         20                3092014
       200)  Ghengis          1                3074228
       201)  Occult          24                3063061
       202)  Pedrosso         1                3026893
       203)  Serena          12                2866790
       204)  Denis           13                2839436
       205)  Dagoth           1                2824786
       206)  Luc             21                2767172
       207)  Entreri          1                2759036
       208)  Teutates        17                2698346
       209)  Lothar          20                2679623
       210)  Zeratul         24                2675613
       211)  Darnyte         19                2662294
       212)  Charm            1                2658216
       213)  Atrus           22                2542340
       214)  Zoyrish         21                2464193
       215)  Gundi            1                2354833
       216)  Shiranai        19                2349994
       217)  Jerak           22                2330012
       218)  Durin           22                2329929
       219)  Cremator        15                2320361
       220)  Valp            24                2205767
       221)  Baer            15                2133057
       222)  Valnir          20                1962469
       223)  Avery           15                1957454
       224)  Bafer           20                1947141
       225)  Ian              1                1896004
       226)  Drako           20                1875537
       227)  Anglemar        19                1826045
       228)  Killer          14                1806290
       229)  Jacen           20                1761702
       230)  Snah            19                1722517
       231)  Judge           18                1718230
       232)  Waz             13                1679516
       233)  Astician        17                1670950
       234)  Prospero        21                1653569
       235)  Sodolf          20                1650942
       236)  Hongkongfui     20                1633259
       237)  Medita          22                1600750
       238)  Aikan           15                1596002
       239)  Kutulu           1                1530871
       240)  Pixar           10                1512145
       241)  Navratil        15                1499966
       242)  Tanglefoot      20                1430074
       243)  Magenta         12                1418667
       244)  Korthrun        13                1416081
       245)  Wraith          16                1365155
       246)  Cryptkeeper     15                1351624
       247)  Sekali          12                1340950
       248)  Elron            1                1279572
       249)  Heloska         20                1189925
       250)  Grond           13                1187042
       251)  Vitreous         8                1187034
       252)  Arkin           15                1140535
       253)  Thomin           1                1128341
       254)  Air              1                1122675
       255)  Alia            15                1113813
       256)  Thaliard        15                1077755
       257)  Gyrick          15                1075240
       258)  Merlyn          13                1005019
       259)  Venegar         15                 990582
       260)  Cypros          19                 988605
       261)  Blackjack        9                 986690
       262)  Serna           18                 975792
       263)  Zzyyxx          22                 923717
       264)  Grydon          15                 909238
       265)  Carak           12                 896407
       266)  Moxie           15                 860114
       267)  Konnan           1                 843723
       268)  Temma            9                 827986
       269)  Elani           14                 818943
       270)  Elite            1                 777326
       271)  Kumalakala      13                 767043
       272)  Bleak            1                 734424
       273)  Phsycoduck      13                 727820
       274)  Regal           13                 719734
       275)  Zonked           8                 703388
       276)  Coal            15                 656840
       277)  Ertai           12                 656092
       278)  Kahlua           8                 641315
       279)  Voz              9                 618803
       280)  Rosencrantz     15                 593721
       281)  Dynasty         15                 585255
       282)  Dmx             14                 580749
       283)  Trap            15                 567431
       284)  Tangelfoot      13                 567029
       285)  Danith          12                 559985
       286)  Shaolin          1                 548501
       287)  Chandris         1                 540570
       288)  Smog            14                 521958
       289)  Deviston        14                 516942
       290)  Loganfive       20                 495356
       291)  Ponka           11                 493152
       292)  Sleet           15                 479325
       293)  Shade           11                 466238
       294)  Keldar          14                 461725
       295)  Myth            12                 442670
       296)  Binx            12                 422372
       297)  Oakie           11                 390732
       298)  Gormac          11                 384837
       299)  Len             10                 379774
       300)  Goku             6                 369086

-----------------

poster: Zavier
subject: >>>KITTENS!!
date: Thu Mar 14 16:37:45 2002

On Thu Mar 14 06:26:58 2002 Lu wrote post #989:
> HOOLT SHIT, mother fuckin yoda and shit... i havent seen siffle aqnd
> ollie in ages, why the hell was that show taken of air anyway,
> g-spot the thug ws friggin hilarios
> -lu
cough Full SP
mumble Tick
Heyy Yeah... I never understood why they took it off the air
either... Some of the funniest shit... Glad to see ppl who
understand (Was getting used to peoples- "Siffle and Ollie sucked
anyway" bah)
Zav

-----------------

poster: Eponine
subject: >KITTENS!!
date: Thu Mar 14 18:33:19 2002

On Wed Mar 13 22:13:23 2002 Mefeet wrote post #973:
> I am getting kittens this friday. A boy and a girl, 4 months old.
> They are brother and sister. Gimme name ideas, kids!
> Love,
> Mefeetses
eww...if you don't remember to get them 'fixed' they may make baby
kittens who could be residents of Arkansas (no offense to any
Arkansans)

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >>bored engineer
date: Thu Mar 14 19:37:29 2002

On Thu Mar 14 00:53:16 2002 Arkangyle wrote post #980:
> On Tue Mar 12 05:53:04 2002 Artea wrote post #965:
> > As some of you know, I've been extremely unlucky in EQ dice lately..
> > 10/13 parties I have dice last or second to last since I reinced
> > evoker.  I'm not bitching or moaning, but for the hell of it, I
> > wrote a monte carlo simulation to figure out what the odds of this
> > happening are.  It creates 13 random numbers from 1-10 (representing
> > a 13 dice rolls in parties of 10 ppl), then checks the set to see if
> > 10 of the 13 numbers are <2, if so it adds 1 to a counter and
> > continues for i iterations (i used 1,000,000 for my tests). 
> > Anyways, i ran it 5 times at a million iterations each and got
> > (17,15,14,16,14) times out of a million that this would happen...
> > thats an average of 15.2/1,000,000 which is an estimated  .00152%
> > chance of this happening.  Damn I'm lucky.
> > art
> > (if your interested, finger me for the code)
> 
> *coughs* a "real" engineer would have simply applied the laws of
> basic probability ... or at least I would hope they would :)
Nope, actually monte carlo simulations are used quite often
art

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >>>bored engineer
date: Thu Mar 14 19:50:52 2002

On Thu Mar 14 19:37:29 2002 Artea wrote post #996:
> On Thu Mar 14 00:53:16 2002 Arkangyle wrote post #980:
> > On Tue Mar 12 05:53:04 2002 Artea wrote post #965:
> > > As some of you know, I've been extremely unlucky in EQ dice lately..
> > > 10/13 parties I have dice last or second to last since I reinced
> > > evoker.  I'm not bitching or moaning, but for the hell of it, I
> > > wrote a monte carlo simulation to figure out what the odds of this
> > > happening are.  It creates 13 random numbers from 1-10 (representing
> > > a 13 dice rolls in parties of 10 ppl), then checks the set to see if
> > > 10 of the 13 numbers are <2, if so it adds 1 to a counter and
> > > continues for i iterations (i used 1,000,000 for my tests). 
> > > Anyways, i ran it 5 times at a million iterations each and got
> > > (17,15,14,16,14) times out of a million that this would happen...
> > > thats an average of 15.2/1,000,000 which is an estimated  .00152%
> > > chance of this happening.  Damn I'm lucky.
> > > art
> > > (if your interested, finger me for the code)
> > 
> > *coughs* a "real" engineer would have simply applied the laws of
> > basic probability ... or at least I would hope they would :)
> Nope, actually monte carlo simulations are used quite often
> art
lemme elaborate.. the law of basic probablility could be applied if
the problem were 'chances of dicing last or second to last 10 times
in a row) rather then 10 out of 13 times, in which it would just be
.2^10, but its not, so its easier just to write a code that took me
a total of 3 minutes to write and debug.  its a lot easier to deal
with the simple logic that goes on in your mind and translate it to
C then to deal with silly formulas
art

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >>>>KITTENS!!
date: Fri Mar 15 00:44:18 2002

On Thu Mar 14 05:14:05 2002 Zavier wrote post #985:
> Ooo Litho! Good choices =] (Though I still Think Siffel and Ollie
> ROCK) {anyone remember Siffel and Ollie?}
if ya gonna name if siffel ya gotta go with clamida... its just
funnier that way 

-----------------

poster: Mefeet
subject: Kittens are here!
date: Fri Mar 15 15:25:20 2002

The kitties are here, the girl is grey and white and black and fuzzy
and tabby and the boy is black with whiteish greyish splotches, he
has a little black nose :)
thanks for all your name ideas... I finally decided what to name them

rhino
for the girl
and puddles
for the boy.


love MEFEET

-----------------

poster: Jomo
subject: >Kittens are here!
date: Fri Mar 15 17:38:22 2002

Two kittens:
Promise and Cutey

(Names that sound like legitimate names, but with added "in jokes" are good)

-----------------

poster: Litho
subject: >>Kittens are here!
date: Fri Mar 15 18:44:23 2002

those names mefeet scare me..because now puddle is gonna leave puddles..

-----------------

poster: Trance
subject: >>>Kittens are here!
date: Fri Mar 15 18:46:17 2002

On Fri Mar 15 18:44:23 2002 Litho wrote post #1001:
> those names mefeet scare me..because now puddle is gonna leave puddles..

As long as Rhino doesn't leave rhinos, I think the names will be
tolerable.. ;)


-----------------

poster: Aurik
subject: >Kittens are here!
date: Fri Mar 15 21:55:55 2002

On Fri Mar 15 15:25:20 2002 Mefeet wrote post #999:
> The kitties are here, the girl is grey and white and black and fuzzy
> and tabby and the boy is black with whiteish greyish splotches, he
> has a little black nose :)
> thanks for all your name ideas... I finally decided what to name them
> 
> rhino
> for the girl
> and puddles
> for the boy.
> 
> 
> love MEFEET

rhino is NOT a girl's name, I believe you need to change that to Claire.

-----------------

poster: Mefeet
subject: >>Kittens are here!
date: Sat Mar 16 00:39:52 2002

On Fri Mar 15 21:55:55 2002 Aurik wrote post #1003:
> On Fri Mar 15 15:25:20 2002 Mefeet wrote post #999:
> > The kitties are here, the girl is grey and white and black and fuzzy
> > and tabby and the boy is black with whiteish greyish splotches, he
> > has a little black nose :)
> > thanks for all your name ideas... I finally decided what to name them
> > 
> > rhino
> > for the girl
> > and puddles
> > for the boy.
> > 
> > 
> > love MEFEET
> 
> rhino is NOT a girl's name, I believe you need to change that to Claire.
Well, I was playing with 'Rhino' and Smee today and I realized that
Rhino is not an appropriate name for the cat. Although she is grey,
she is NOT a Rhino. Smee told me that Ark said I should name the
kitten Claire, I looked at the kitten, and decided that she was much
more a Claire then a Rhino. Thanks again folks

-----------------

poster: Dram
subject: >>>Kittens are here!
date: Sat Mar 16 05:53:54 2002

You should have named the female one Cat.

-----------------

poster: Myrddin
subject: Quest
date: Sat Mar 16 07:06:53 2002

Ok, Ladies and Gentlemen!
I have a quest for anyone and everyone interested.
I am about to buy a new car, and Acura RSX Type-S for anyone
intersted, and it has a 6 disc in dash cd player.
I know, I know, you are wondering what this has to do with you, well
here it is.
I want to make 5 cd's that I can put in the player and leave in
there indefinately.  Soooo this is the quest.
Send me vial mudmail your best 5 cd mixes. The one I like the best
wins a prize. At the moment this prize is 500k gold, but I might
change that to a higher worth eq piece if I can find one I dont mind
parting with too much.
Now since I said the winner will have the best one I like, I should
probably tell you what type of music I like.
I listen to classical, a little blues, hard rock(nirvana,
disturbed...), classic rock(queen, eagles, black sabath, all the
greats) and basically any music thats really good.
The only music i really dont like is rap and country, so I would
definately stay away from those.
Thanks in advance for your responces, I am going to give you plenty
of time to work on these and come up with the best ones you can, and
5 cd's is alot of music, so Ill probably make the deadline the
begining of April unless alot of people ask for extensions. 
Good Luck to everyone, oh and If i really like it im liable to up
the reward significantly.
Myrddin

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>Kittens are here!
date: Sat Mar 16 07:07:59 2002

whine, ark..you suck
-lu

-----------------

poster: Nyx
subject: >>>>KITTENS!!
date: Sat Mar 16 23:56:27 2002

On Thu Mar 14 06:27:25 2002 Lu wrote post #990:
> name them both lu
> -lu
Ren and Stimpy :)





-----------------

poster: Panacea
subject: >>>>bored engineer
date: Sun Mar 17 06:58:42 2002

If you use combination theory there is a formula that lets you do it
in about 5 seconds

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >>>>>bored engineer
date: Sun Mar 17 09:35:16 2002

On Sun Mar 17 06:58:42 2002 Panacea wrote post #1009:
> If you use combination theory there is a formula that lets you do it
> in about 5 seconds

That, sir, was my point exactly.

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >>>>>>bored engineer
date: Sun Mar 17 09:43:24 2002

On Sun Mar 17 09:35:16 2002 Arkangyle wrote post #1010:
> On Sun Mar 17 06:58:42 2002 Panacea wrote post #1009:
> > If you use combination theory there is a formula that lets you do it
> > in about 5 seconds
> 
> That, sir, was my point exactly.
theres more then one way to skin a cat, and i've never taken
statistics, so why not use analysis?

-----------------

poster: Zax
subject: >>Kittens are here!
date: Sun Mar 17 09:47:42 2002

On Fri Mar 15 21:55:55 2002 Aurik wrote post #1003:
> On Fri Mar 15 15:25:20 2002 Mefeet wrote post #999:
> > The kitties are here, the girl is grey and white and black and fuzzy
> > and tabby and the boy is black with whiteish greyish splotches, he
> > has a little black nose :)
> > thanks for all your name ideas... I finally decided what to name them
> > 
> > rhino
> > for the girl
> > and puddles
> > for the boy.
> > 
> > 
> > love MEFEET
> 
> rhino is NOT a girl's name, I believe you need to change that to Claire.
pity that Claire isn't a girl's name last I heard either...


-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >>>Kittens are here!
date: Sun Mar 17 09:48:24 2002

On Sun Mar 17 09:47:42 2002 Zax wrote post #1012:
> On Fri Mar 15 21:55:55 2002 Aurik wrote post #1003:
> > On Fri Mar 15 15:25:20 2002 Mefeet wrote post #999:
> > > The kitties are here, the girl is grey and white and black and fuzzy
> > > and tabby and the boy is black with whiteish greyish splotches, he
> > > has a little black nose :)
> > > thanks for all your name ideas... I finally decided what to name them
> > > 
> > > rhino
> > > for the girl
> > > and puddles
> > > for the boy.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > love MEFEET
> > 
> > rhino is NOT a girl's name, I believe you need to change that to Claire.
> pity that Claire isn't a girl's name last I heard either...
> 
interesting

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >>>Kittens are here!
date: Sun Mar 17 10:34:24 2002

On Sun Mar 17 09:47:42 2002 Zax wrote post #1012:
> On Fri Mar 15 21:55:55 2002 Aurik wrote post #1003:
> > On Fri Mar 15 15:25:20 2002 Mefeet wrote post #999:
> > > The kitties are here, the girl is grey and white and black and fuzzy
> > > and tabby and the boy is black with whiteish greyish splotches, he
> > > has a little black nose :)
> > > thanks for all your name ideas... I finally decided what to name them
> > > 
> > > rhino
> > > for the girl
> > > and puddles
> > > for the boy.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > love MEFEET
> > 
> > rhino is NOT a girl's name, I believe you need to change that to Claire.
> pity that Claire isn't a girl's name last I heard either...
> 

*peer*

-----------------

poster: Zavier
subject: HELP!!
date: Sun Mar 17 20:50:16 2002

Ok I fawked up royaly. Last night I was experimenting with cut and
paste on zmud cause I've never been able to do this. In the process
I did something that made my screen nothing but a grey wall. I
couldn't figure out how to get the regular screen back so I got the
bright idea to just delete my Zmud program alltogether and
redownload it. Well needless to say this caused some problems.
Certainly me trigs are all gone now (stupid! stupid!) but that can
be fixed. The real problem comes with the fact that i can now
neither redownload Zmud or any other client (tried portal,Telnet,
and the Zmud 6.26a beta) I can't figure out why I cant get these
again. Before I discovered Zmud I used portal for like a day then
deleted it. Seems these programs leave some trace on your computer
that makes it so you can't get it again or something.
Please if you have any suggestions HELP!
-Love Zav

-----------------

poster: Sleet
subject: >Kittens are here!
date: Sun Mar 17 21:04:24 2002

aww i thought ya were gonan name the boy badfish

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >HELP!!
date: Mon Mar 18 00:41:13 2002

> Please if you have any suggestions HELP!
> -Love Zav

'can't get it again?'.  I dont understand what you mean by 
that.  You cant ftp it again? or you cant install 
it again, and what message do you get?.


For teh record I have downloaded and installed portal many times.
**



-----------------

poster: Myrddin
subject: Request
date: Mon Mar 18 07:33:50 2002

I have a fairly simple request.
I have noticed a few new wizzes wandering around these days.
While i have no problem whatsoever with some help for our much over
worked wizzes i would love to know who these people are and where
they came from
Perhaps they just need to say hi im so and so i know Foo form ehre
and he asked me to mud
Well just my two cents
Myrddin

-----------------

poster: Mefeet
subject: Smee
date: Mon Mar 18 20:36:49 2002

say I'd say you're reffed, Zuleg.
Smee is ill.
Smee is ill.



he's... really ill

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: Thoughts on gold
date: Tue Mar 19 00:30:07 2002

AFAIK, the purpose of recent changes was to reduce the amount of
gold being held by players.  I think it might be counter-productive.

In addition to the substantial maintainence costs on my
eq, I am aware that I will eventually have to either repair
or replace it all.  Either option will be extremely expensive
and will need to be done for all my eq at more or less the 
same time.  For that reason, I want a lot of money in my
account and it will take me a long time to get it.  So, I
am starting now.  I'll build my account up to perhaps 10M
as an "eq repair/replace" fund and then over that for buying
any new eq that might crop up, with the intention of keeping
10M in my account so that I will have enough to replace at
least a quarter of my eq when it all starts to break, or repair
a larger proportion of it if possible.

If I stick to my plan, that's 10M gold tied up in my account, which
hardly reduces the amount of gold being held in player's accounts.

OK, back to golding

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: >Thoughts on gold
date: Tue Mar 19 05:01:19 2002

On Tue Mar 19 00:30:07 2002 Tahnval wrote post #1020:
> AFAIK, the purpose of recent changes was to reduce the amount of
> gold being held by players.  I think it might be counter-productive.
> 
> In addition to the substantial maintainence costs on my
> eq, I am aware that I will eventually have to either repair
> or replace it all.  Either option will be extremely expensive
> and will need to be done for all my eq at more or less the 
> same time.  For that reason, I want a lot of money in my
> account and it will take me a long time to get it.  So, I
> am starting now.  I'll build my account up to perhaps 10M
> as an "eq repair/replace" fund and then over that for buying
> any new eq that might crop up, with the intention of keeping
> 10M in my account so that I will have enough to replace at
> least a quarter of my eq when it all starts to break, or repair
> a larger proportion of it if possible.
> 
> If I stick to my plan, that's 10M gold tied up in my account, which
> hardly reduces the amount of gold being held in player's accounts.
> 
> OK, back to golding
Encouraging you to save and value your gold MORE sounds like a 
GOOD thing to me =)

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >HELP!!
date: Thu Mar 21 09:21:17 2002

On Sun Mar 17 20:50:16 2002 Zavier wrote post #1015:
> Ok I fawked up royaly. Last night I was experimenting with cut and
> paste on zmud cause I've never been able to do this. In the process
> I did something that made my screen nothing but a grey wall. I
> couldn't figure out how to get the regular screen back so I got the
> bright idea to just delete my Zmud program alltogether and
> redownload it. Well needless to say this caused some problems.
> Certainly me trigs are all gone now (stupid! stupid!) but that can
> be fixed. The real problem comes with the fact that i can now
> neither redownload Zmud or any other client (tried portal,Telnet,
> and the Zmud 6.26a beta) I can't figure out why I cant get these
> again. Before I discovered Zmud I used portal for like a day then
> deleted it. Seems these programs leave some trace on your computer
> that makes it so you can't get it again or something.
> Please if you have any suggestions HELP!
> -Love Zav
if you deleted them and did not uninstall them, that can leave
registries and other things on your computer.. if thats the case,
all you have to do is uninstall it

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >Thoughts on gold
date: Thu Mar 21 20:29:31 2002

On Tue Mar 19 00:30:07 2002 Tahnval wrote post #1020:
> AFAIK, the purpose of recent changes was to reduce the amount of
> gold being held by players.  I think it might be counter-productive.
> 
> In addition to the substantial maintainence costs on my
> eq, I am aware that I will eventually have to either repair
> or replace it all.  Either option will be extremely expensive
> and will need to be done for all my eq at more or less the 
> same time.  For that reason, I want a lot of money in my
> account and it will take me a long time to get it.  So, I
> am starting now.  I'll build my account up to perhaps 10M
> as an "eq repair/replace" fund and then over that for buying
> any new eq that might crop up, with the intention of keeping
> 10M in my account so that I will have enough to replace at
> least a quarter of my eq when it all starts to break, or repair
> a larger proportion of it if possible.
> 
> If I stick to my plan, that's 10M gold tied up in my account, which
> hardly reduces the amount of gold being held in player's accounts.
> 
> OK, back to golding
if you ask me there are 2 major sources of 'wealth' in the mud,
golding and doing EQ.. reducing gold does nothing but shift the
wealth to the wealthy.. thats my 2 cents
art

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: >>Thoughts on gold
date: Thu Mar 21 20:44:37 2002

On Thu Mar 21 20:29:31 2002 Artea wrote post #1023:
> On Tue Mar 19 00:30:07 2002 Tahnval wrote post #1020:
> > AFAIK, the purpose of recent changes was to reduce the amount of
> > gold being held by players.  I think it might be counter-productive.
> > 
> > In addition to the substantial maintainence costs on my
> > eq, I am aware that I will eventually have to either repair
> > or replace it all.  Either option will be extremely expensive
> > and will need to be done for all my eq at more or less the 
> > same time.  For that reason, I want a lot of money in my
> > account and it will take me a long time to get it.  So, I
> > am starting now.  I'll build my account up to perhaps 10M
> > as an "eq repair/replace" fund and then over that for buying
> > any new eq that might crop up, with the intention of keeping
> > 10M in my account so that I will have enough to replace at
> > least a quarter of my eq when it all starts to break, or repair
> > a larger proportion of it if possible.
> > 
> > If I stick to my plan, that's 10M gold tied up in my account, which
> > hardly reduces the amount of gold being held in player's accounts.
> > 
> > OK, back to golding
> if you ask me there are 2 major sources of 'wealth' in the mud,
> golding and doing EQ.. reducing gold does nothing but shift the
> wealth to the wealthy.. thats my 2 cents
> art
Or those who are capable of doing eq - who are most likely weathly
to begin with. 

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >>>Thoughts on gold
date: Thu Mar 21 20:46:51 2002

On Thu Mar 21 20:44:37 2002 Quillz wrote post #1024:
> On Thu Mar 21 20:29:31 2002 Artea wrote post #1023:
> > On Tue Mar 19 00:30:07 2002 Tahnval wrote post #1020:
> > > AFAIK, the purpose of recent changes was to reduce the amount of
> > > gold being held by players.  I think it might be counter-productive.
> > > 
> > > In addition to the substantial maintainence costs on my
> > > eq, I am aware that I will eventually have to either repair
> > > or replace it all.  Either option will be extremely expensive
> > > and will need to be done for all my eq at more or less the 
> > > same time.  For that reason, I want a lot of money in my
> > > account and it will take me a long time to get it.  So, I
> > > am starting now.  I'll build my account up to perhaps 10M
> > > as an "eq repair/replace" fund and then over that for buying
> > > any new eq that might crop up, with the intention of keeping
> > > 10M in my account so that I will have enough to replace at
> > > least a quarter of my eq when it all starts to break, or repair
> > > a larger proportion of it if possible.
> > > 
> > > If I stick to my plan, that's 10M gold tied up in my account, which
> > > hardly reduces the amount of gold being held in player's accounts.
> > > 
> > > OK, back to golding
> > if you ask me there are 2 major sources of 'wealth' in the mud,
> > golding and doing EQ.. reducing gold does nothing but shift the
> > wealth to the wealthy.. thats my 2 cents
> > art
> Or those who are capable of doing eq - who are most likely weathly
> to begin with. 
yea thats what I mean.. and its just as easy for ppl who can do eq
to get eq as it was before the gold changes, howevever it is
becomeing increasingly harder for midbies/lowbies to buy eq off the
ppl who kill the mobs
art

-----------------

poster: Midnight
subject: >>>Thoughts on gold
date: Thu Mar 21 20:50:28 2002

seems to me you are asking for the mobs who hold that eq to become
stronger to keep the whole sceme in line :)
Mdinight

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>>>Thoughts on gold
date: Thu Mar 21 21:16:31 2002

> yea thats what I mean.. and its just as easy for ppl who can do eq
> to get eq as it was before the gold changes, howevever it is
> becomeing increasingly harder for midbies/lowbies to buy eq off the
> ppl who kill the mobs
> art

Why is that?  The prices are artificially set and are not set
at what the market will pay.  Why is that? because they
havea ll the gold they could ever need.

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >>>>>Thoughts on gold
date: Fri Mar 22 01:35:25 2002

On Thu Mar 21 21:16:31 2002 Zifnab wrote post #1027:
> > yea thats what I mean.. and its just as easy for ppl who can do eq
> > to get eq as it was before the gold changes, howevever it is
> > becomeing increasingly harder for midbies/lowbies to buy eq off the
> > ppl who kill the mobs
> > art
> 
> Why is that?  The prices are artificially set and are not set
> at what the market will pay.  Why is that? because they
> havea ll the gold they could ever need.

funny, I've actually tried to sell nice eq at very low prices (even
just considering tps sac worth ... 2m for a 7tp item) and yet I got
no bids at all over a 3 day period.  Sounds like stuff actually
lowered in price on sales to me.

-----------------

poster: Litho
subject: >>>>>>Thoughts on gold
date: Fri Mar 22 02:19:48 2002

I agree with arkangyle, i attempted to sell a 10-15m worth piece of
eq, for 4-7m, and yet no one could afford it, i got plenty of people
say they would love to buy it, if they had the money..IMO, eq does
not change any gold in the game, it just cancels the whole gold
thing out.  topslot eq relatively sells for quite a bit of gold
(10-25m), but if people can't afford it it just adds up to
tpsac..There are still the few ppl who have like 50m+ in their
accounts (mirrim, nightfall), but its taken them a super long time
to get that..Shrug just my 2 cents..
-Litho

-----------------

poster: Zax
subject: >>>>>>>Thoughts on gold
date: Fri Mar 22 04:00:13 2002

you missed the point. what makes an item worth 10-15M? well thats
what you paid for it, or someone else said it was worth, or some
random number you decided to be a good value.
there is no solid guideline to what eq "should" be worth, and any
number of people can tell you how they paid xxx more for some now
shitty piece of eq "back in the day".
everyone will decide on what they consider a piece of eq to be
worth, and if you dont' want to buy or sell at the value it's on
sales for, then you don't have to. 
as a buyer, you can hoarde your gold until you decide there is value
for money in buying something.
as a seller you can keep your eq (safes full of the same items I
believe Ark had at one point), until you see value for money in
selling it.

blahblah

-----------------

poster: Durin
subject: >>>>>>>>Thoughts on gold
date: Fri Mar 22 08:05:52 2002

I love the change. Gold has allways been too easy. And hey,
midbies/newbies don't have to pay the high end eq, they could *gasP*
make their own eq parties now and do their range eq, or buy that
range eq which has to be quite 'cheap' now as highbie eq is topping
at few three megs also.

This is maybe one of those things that could now be one of the
markers on which a few other things could be tuned, a bit like it is
supposed to do with woodsmen (who are really good) and tune other
guilds as good and working.

-Durin

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: Newbie/Midbie Eq and related things..
date: Fri Mar 22 10:10:06 2002

All you people who don't like to hear from me, don't even bother
reading this. I have an itch to scratch about a few issues and I am
going to.

Newbie/Midbie Eq: What is this? Please tell me? I have not seen many
eq mons of this level. When a high end party goes eq'n they have to
sit down and pick out what it is they want to kill. You see a lower
end party go out and kill things it is always the exact same things,
most of which are rather laughable. I am not saying _all_ parties of
low end.. just most.

Newbie/Midbie Gold: So a newbie golds enough and saves up enough to
earn a single midslot piece of eq maybe worth 5m gold max. What is
wrong with that? Highbies can gold at faster rates hands down than
lowbies. Therefor highbies are capable of saving up for more pieces
of higher and higher slot eq. Their is nothing wrong with that 
either imho, it sets a balance for things that seems to work rather
well.
I
I> -Celine
I

-----------------

poster: Hierokliff
subject: >Newbie/Midbie Eq and related things..
date: Fri Mar 22 11:43:31 2002

The problem with EQ is the size of parties...
limit it to 5-6 ppl, tune npcs for it...
then we can have low, mid and high eq mobs that
are worth doing, because then low lvl ppl dont 
expect to get the best since they are invited
to higheq parties just because we must have so
much fire/healpower...


//Hierokliff Bloodsbane

-----------------

poster: Zephyrus
subject: tunnels
date: Sat Mar 23 20:16:23 2002

I just wanted to say my piece on the no tunnels till level 10 rogue
issue. I think the wizards made a good choice making it lev 10 for
tunnels since it made rogue almost too good as a second alpha
before.  The only problem i have with it is i had 1 lev in rogue as
my second alpha like many other woodsman and fighters do.  But since
the policy for tunnels was changed this one lev in rogue is now a
wasted second alpha.  I need like 200-300 million experience to make
this second alpha useful to me again.  If rogue had always been this
way then i would not have chosen rogue as my second alpha but
cleric.  I believe a free reinc should be offered or a reinc machine
or something for people who have rogue as thier second alpha that
dont plan on leving 10 levs more in rogue or have the xp to do so. 
I'm not sure if this is possible or what, i'm just saying my piece. 
I know in the past reincs have been done when guilds were altered, i
consider this a pretty big change but others might not.  Zeph

-----------------

poster: Kaos
subject: >tunnels
date: Sat Mar 23 20:39:19 2002

I'll bet you 4 safes of eq that a free reinc will not be given.

-----------------

poster: Snoop
subject: >>tunnels
date: Sat Mar 23 20:41:32 2002

On Sat Mar 23 20:39:19 2002 Kaos wrote post #1035:
> I'll bet you 4 safes of eq that a free reinc will not be given.
if it's really good eq in them, i'll give him my free reinc ticket
*/Snoop

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >tunnels
date: Sat Mar 23 20:41:46 2002

> I'm not sure if this is possible or what, i'm just saying my piece. 
> I know in the past reincs have been done when guilds were altered, i
> consider this a pretty big change but others might not.  Zeph

Technically the guild was not altered, and a reinc will not
be offered for this.


-----------------

poster: Daneel
subject: >tunnels
date: Sun Mar 24 04:12:03 2002

On Sat Mar 23 20:16:23 2002 Zephyrus wrote post #1034:
> I just wanted to say my piece on the no tunnels till level 10 rogue
> issue. I think the wizards made a good choice making it lev 10 for
> tunnels since it made rogue almost too good as a second alpha
> before.  The only problem i have with it is i had 1 lev in rogue as
> my second alpha like many other woodsman and fighters do.  But since
> the policy for tunnels was changed this one lev in rogue is now a
> wasted second alpha.  I need like 200-300 million experience to make
> this second alpha useful to me again.  If rogue had always been this
> way then i would not have chosen rogue as my second alpha but
> cleric.  I believe a free reinc should be offered or a reinc machine
> or something for people who have rogue as thier second alpha that
> dont plan on leving 10 levs more in rogue or have the xp to do so. 
> I'm not sure if this is possible or what, i'm just saying my piece. 
> I know in the past reincs have been done when guilds were altered, i
> consider this a pretty big change but others might not.  Zeph
I know zif's already said no, but I feel a need to say something 
about this anyway.

Saying "...a free reinc _should_ be offered..." implies that you
(or any player) have an inherent right to be as optimized as you 
possibly can be.  This is not a right you have.  It is not a duty
of the wizards, or anyone else, to allow you this ability.  If 
you want to be as optimized a character as possible, you are 
free to try (though personally, I think in the attempt you're 
going to miss out on quite a few fun, if not ideal, character
options).

                  -Daneel

-----------------

poster: Mirrim
subject: >>>>Kittens are here!
date: Mon Mar 25 00:24:32 2002

A lot of names go from male to female, sometimes with spelling
variations, such as, Ashley, Tracy, Stacy, Frances, Marian, Claire,
Tyler and a name that's male in one country can be female in
another. Examples: Jean, Andrea, Christie and Laurie. The names some
of us would die from embarrassment having, others are perfectly
comfortable having. 

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: igossip
date: Mon Mar 25 03:07:12 2002

02:59:41 Marajin@Andromeda [igossip]: Why is this Red Dragon place
being so nonconformist damnit
03:04:23 Khosan <-->: what did we do wrong now?
03:04:42 Marajin@Andromeda [igossip]: You're too nice to be on this channel ;P

-----------------

poster: Marvin
subject: >>>>>>>>Thoughts on gold
date: Mon Mar 25 21:05:06 2002

On Fri Mar 22 04:00:13 2002 Zax wrote post #1030:
> you missed the point. what makes an item worth 10-15M? well thats
> what you paid for it, or someone else said it was worth, or some
> random number you decided to be a good value.
> there is no solid guideline to what eq "should" be worth, and any
> number of people can tell you how they paid xxx more for some now
> shitty piece of eq "back in the day".
> everyone will decide on what they consider a piece of eq to be
> worth, and if you dont' want to buy or sell at the value it's on
> sales for, then you don't have to. 
> as a buyer, you can hoarde your gold until you decide there is value
> for money in buying something.
> as a seller you can keep your eq (safes full of the same items I
> believe Ark had at one point), until you see value for money in
> selling it.
> 
> blahblah

Or until you need the gold and will sell it at the best price you can get.
Meaning you have high expenses and gold isn't so easy to get.

Marvin ponders . o O ( Funny, that fits into recent tunes... )


-----------------

poster: Mefeet
subject: Uh oh.
date: Tue Mar 26 20:05:38 2002

It seems Puddles has undergone a sex change.. or something..
Puddles, my kitten, is a girl. I have two girl kittens. You may
express your glee or distaste by replying to this post.
that is all.


Mefeet loves EVERYTHING

-----------------

poster: Tektor
subject: Long Story Short
date: Tue Mar 26 22:51:38 2002

Hiya, Would like to make an apology to anyone caught in my sister's
wrath of wanting to screw my char on here up. I haven't been on in
awhile and apparently she had some fun in the reinc room. I was a
bit pissed to say the least. Well anyway I suppose thats what I get
for teaching her to play. Again sorry to any who had to deal with
her. I'm sorta back starting almost completely over but I'm going to
try and work back up.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Long Story Short
date: Tue Mar 26 22:53:02 2002

On Tue Mar 26 22:51:38 2002 Tektor wrote post #1043:
> Hiya, Would like to make an apology to anyone caught in my sister's
> wrath of wanting to screw my char on here up. I haven't been on in
> awhile and apparently she had some fun in the reinc room. I was a
> bit pissed to say the least. Well anyway I suppose thats what I get
> for teaching her to play. Again sorry to any who had to deal with
> her. I'm sorta back starting almost completely over but I'm going to
> try and work back up.

how about, thats what I get for using a stupid password...
or thats what I get for storing my password in my client?

always blame someone else.....



-----------------

poster: Tektor
subject: >>Long Story Short
date: Tue Mar 26 22:57:02 2002

On Tue Mar 26 22:53:02 2002 Zifnab wrote post #1044:
> On Tue Mar 26 22:51:38 2002 Tektor wrote post #1043:
> > Hiya, Would like to make an apology to anyone caught in my sister's
> > wrath of wanting to screw my char on here up. I haven't been on in
> > awhile and apparently she had some fun in the reinc room. I was a
> > bit pissed to say the least. Well anyway I suppose thats what I get
> > for teaching her to play. Again sorry to any who had to deal with
> > her. I'm sorta back starting almost completely over but I'm going to
> > try and work back up.
> 
> how about, thats what I get for using a stupid password...
> or thats what I get for storing my password in my client?
> 
> always blame someone else.....
> 
> 
Did neither she went in my desk drawer and found it. I have tons of
passwords I never figured she'd go through them all.
Yeah it was stupid of me to leave it in the desk drawer. Not
completely blaming her, though I didn't expect such comments seeing
as how I haven't asked for anything to be done about it nor do I
intend to. My own personal problem that im fixing myself.

-----------------

poster: Mefeet
subject: >>>Long Story Short
date: Tue Mar 26 22:58:14 2002

On Tue Mar 26 22:57:02 2002 Tektor wrote post #1045:
> On Tue Mar 26 22:53:02 2002 Zifnab wrote post #1044:
> > On Tue Mar 26 22:51:38 2002 Tektor wrote post #1043:
> > > Hiya, Would like to make an apology to anyone caught in my sister's
> > > wrath of wanting to screw my char on here up. I haven't been on in
> > > awhile and apparently she had some fun in the reinc room. I was a
> > > bit pissed to say the least. Well anyway I suppose thats what I get
> > > for teaching her to play. Again sorry to any who had to deal with
> > > her. I'm sorta back starting almost completely over but I'm going to
> > > try and work back up.
> > 
> > how about, thats what I get for using a stupid password...
> > or thats what I get for storing my password in my client?
> > 
> > always blame someone else.....
> > 
> > 
> Did neither she went in my desk drawer and found it. I have tons of
> passwords I never figured she'd go through them all.
> Yeah it was stupid of me to leave it in the desk drawer. Not
> completely blaming her, though I didn't expect such comments seeing
> as how I haven't asked for anything to be done about it nor do I
> intend to. My own personal problem that im fixing myself.
Lets stop pointing fingers and just say "Sucks to be you."

-----------------

poster: Dfalt
subject: >>>>Long Story Short
date: Tue Mar 26 23:00:34 2002

On Tue Mar 26 22:58:14 2002 Mefeet wrote post #1046:
> On Tue Mar 26 22:57:02 2002 Tektor wrote post #1045:
> > On Tue Mar 26 22:53:02 2002 Zifnab wrote post #1044:
> > > On Tue Mar 26 22:51:38 2002 Tektor wrote post #1043:
> > > > Hiya, Would like to make an apology to anyone caught in my sister's
> > > > wrath of wanting to screw my char on here up. I haven't been on in
> > > > awhile and apparently she had some fun in the reinc room. I was a
> > > > bit pissed to say the least. Well anyway I suppose thats what I get
> > > > for teaching her to play. Again sorry to any who had to deal with
> > > > her. I'm sorta back starting almost completely over but I'm going to
> > > > try and work back up.
> > > 
> > > how about, thats what I get for using a stupid password...
> > > or thats what I get for storing my password in my client?
> > > 
> > > always blame someone else.....
> > > 
> > > 
> > Did neither she went in my desk drawer and found it. I have tons of
> > passwords I never figured she'd go through them all.
> > Yeah it was stupid of me to leave it in the desk drawer. Not
> > completely blaming her, though I didn't expect such comments seeing
> > as how I haven't asked for anything to be done about it nor do I
> > intend to. My own personal problem that im fixing myself.
> Lets stop pointing fingers and just say "Sucks to be you."
i dont really care what happened... Sorry your sis got ahold of your
character, If i were you, i would tear her barby dolls heads off for
revenge, but hey, im evil that way.

-----------------

poster: Mefeet
subject: >>>>>Long Story Short
date: Tue Mar 26 23:01:04 2002

On Tue Mar 26 23:00:34 2002 Dfalt wrote post #1047:
> On Tue Mar 26 22:58:14 2002 Mefeet wrote post #1046:
> > On Tue Mar 26 22:57:02 2002 Tektor wrote post #1045:
> > > On Tue Mar 26 22:53:02 2002 Zifnab wrote post #1044:
> > > > On Tue Mar 26 22:51:38 2002 Tektor wrote post #1043:
> > > > > Hiya, Would like to make an apology to anyone caught in my sister's
> > > > > wrath of wanting to screw my char on here up. I haven't been on in
> > > > > awhile and apparently she had some fun in the reinc room. I was a
> > > > > bit pissed to say the least. Well anyway I suppose thats what I get
> > > > > for teaching her to play. Again sorry to any who had to deal with
> > > > > her. I'm sorta back starting almost completely over but I'm going to
> > > > > try and work back up.
> > > > 
> > > > how about, thats what I get for using a stupid password...
> > > > or thats what I get for storing my password in my client?
> > > > 
> > > > always blame someone else.....
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > Did neither she went in my desk drawer and found it. I have tons of
> > > passwords I never figured she'd go through them all.
> > > Yeah it was stupid of me to leave it in the desk drawer. Not
> > > completely blaming her, though I didn't expect such comments seeing
> > > as how I haven't asked for anything to be done about it nor do I
> > > intend to. My own personal problem that im fixing myself.
> > Lets stop pointing fingers and just say "Sucks to be you."
> i dont really care what happened... Sorry your sis got ahold of your
> character, If i were you, i would tear her barby dolls heads off for
> revenge, but hey, im evil that way.
If you were my sister, Dfalt, I would take your tapshoes

-----------------

poster: Dfalt
subject: >>>>>>Long Story Short
date: Tue Mar 26 23:01:46 2002

On Tue Mar 26 23:01:04 2002 Mefeet wrote post #1048:
> On Tue Mar 26 23:00:34 2002 Dfalt wrote post #1047:
> > On Tue Mar 26 22:58:14 2002 Mefeet wrote post #1046:
> > > On Tue Mar 26 22:57:02 2002 Tektor wrote post #1045:
> > > > On Tue Mar 26 22:53:02 2002 Zifnab wrote post #1044:
> > > > > On Tue Mar 26 22:51:38 2002 Tektor wrote post #1043:
> > > > > > Hiya, Would like to make an apology to anyone caught in my
sister's
> > > > > > wrath of wanting to screw my char on here up. I haven't been on in
> > > > > > awhile and apparently she had some fun in the reinc room. I was a
> > > > > > bit pissed to say the least. Well anyway I suppose thats what I
get
> > > > > > for teaching her to play. Again sorry to any who had to deal with
> > > > > > her. I'm sorta back starting almost completely over but I'm
going to
> > > > > > try and work back up.
> > > > > 
> > > > > how about, thats what I get for using a stupid password...
> > > > > or thats what I get for storing my password in my client?
> > > > > 
> > > > > always blame someone else.....
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > Did neither she went in my desk drawer and found it. I have tons of
> > > > passwords I never figured she'd go through them all.
> > > > Yeah it was stupid of me to leave it in the desk drawer. Not
> > > > completely blaming her, though I didn't expect such comments seeing
> > > > as how I haven't asked for anything to be done about it nor do I
> > > > intend to. My own personal problem that im fixing myself.
> > > Lets stop pointing fingers and just say "Sucks to be you."
> > i dont really care what happened... Sorry your sis got ahold of your
> > character, If i were you, i would tear her barby dolls heads off for
> > revenge, but hey, im evil that way.
> If you were my sister, Dfalt, I would take your tapshoes
and if I were your sister, i would be hot, and you would onyl have
to worry about me spelling barbie wrong. =/

-----------------

poster: Mefeet
subject: >>>>>>>Long Story Short
date: Tue Mar 26 23:02:22 2002

On Tue Mar 26 23:01:46 2002 Dfalt wrote post #1049:
> On Tue Mar 26 23:01:04 2002 Mefeet wrote post #1048:
> > On Tue Mar 26 23:00:34 2002 Dfalt wrote post #1047:
> > > On Tue Mar 26 22:58:14 2002 Mefeet wrote post #1046:
> > > > On Tue Mar 26 22:57:02 2002 Tektor wrote post #1045:
> > > > > On Tue Mar 26 22:53:02 2002 Zifnab wrote post #1044:
> > > > > > On Tue Mar 26 22:51:38 2002 Tektor wrote post #1043:
> > > > > > > Hiya, Would like to make an apology to anyone caught in my
> sister's
> > > > > > > wrath of wanting to screw my char on here up. I haven't been
on in
> > > > > > > awhile and apparently she had some fun in the reinc room. I
was a
> > > > > > > bit pissed to say the least. Well anyway I suppose thats what I
> get
> > > > > > > for teaching her to play. Again sorry to any who had to deal
with
> > > > > > > her. I'm sorta back starting almost completely over but I'm
> going to
> > > > > > > try and work back up.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > how about, thats what I get for using a stupid password...
> > > > > > or thats what I get for storing my password in my client?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > always blame someone else.....
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > Did neither she went in my desk drawer and found it. I have tons of
> > > > > passwords I never figured she'd go through them all.
> > > > > Yeah it was stupid of me to leave it in the desk drawer. Not
> > > > > completely blaming her, though I didn't expect such comments seeing
> > > > > as how I haven't asked for anything to be done about it nor do I
> > > > > intend to. My own personal problem that im fixing myself.
> > > > Lets stop pointing fingers and just say "Sucks to be you."
> > > i dont really care what happened... Sorry your sis got ahold of your
> > > character, If i were you, i would tear her barby dolls heads off for
> > > revenge, but hey, im evil that way.
> > If you were my sister, Dfalt, I would take your tapshoes
> and if I were your sister, i would be hot, and you would onyl have
> to worry about me spelling barbie wrong. =/
Peh, you WISH you were my sister... you're just a fatass with no tapshoes

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: >>>>>>>>Long Story Short
date: Wed Mar 27 00:06:49 2002

On Tue Mar 26 23:02:22 2002 Mefeet wrote post #1050:
> On Tue Mar 26 23:01:46 2002 Dfalt wrote post #1049:
> > On Tue Mar 26 23:01:04 2002 Mefeet wrote post #1048:
> > > On Tue Mar 26 23:00:34 2002 Dfalt wrote post #1047:
> > > > On Tue Mar 26 22:58:14 2002 Mefeet wrote post #1046:
> > > > > On Tue Mar 26 22:57:02 2002 Tektor wrote post #1045:
> > > > > > On Tue Mar 26 22:53:02 2002 Zifnab wrote post #1044:
> > > > > > > On Tue Mar 26 22:51:38 2002 Tektor wrote post #1043:
> > > > > > > > Hiya, Would like to make an apology to anyone caught in my
> > sister's
> > > > > > > > wrath of wanting to screw my char on here up. I haven't been
> on in
> > > > > > > > awhile and apparently she had some fun in the reinc room. I
> was a
> > > > > > > > bit pissed to say the least. Well anyway I suppose thats
what I
> > get
> > > > > > > > for teaching her to play. Again sorry to any who had to deal
> with
> > > > > > > > her. I'm sorta back starting almost completely over but I'm
> > going to
> > > > > > > > try and work back up.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > how about, thats what I get for using a stupid password...
> > > > > > > or thats what I get for storing my password in my client?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > always blame someone else.....
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > Did neither she went in my desk drawer and found it. I have tons
of
> > > > > > passwords I never figured she'd go through them all.
> > > > > > Yeah it was stupid of me to leave it in the desk drawer. Not
> > > > > > completely blaming her, though I didn't expect such comments
seeing
> > > > > > as how I haven't asked for anything to be done about it nor do I
> > > > > > intend to. My own personal problem that im fixing myself.
> > > > > Lets stop pointing fingers and just say "Sucks to be you."
> > > > i dont really care what happened... Sorry your sis got ahold of your
> > > > character, If i were you, i would tear her barby dolls heads off for
> > > > revenge, but hey, im evil that way.
> > > If you were my sister, Dfalt, I would take your tapshoes
> > and if I were your sister, i would be hot, and you would onyl have
> > to worry about me spelling barbie wrong. =/
> Peh, you WISH you were my sister... you're just a fatass with no tapshoes
hahahahah!  
ps. tek - I've heard of people getting bored and reinc'g several
times, get embarrased cuz they did something stupid, then claim that
someone "got ahold of" their char. 
And somehow knew all the commands and shit to reinc it over and over. 
Not saying this is you, but hey, stranger shit has happened. 

-----------------

poster: Eponine
subject: Katie contest
date: Wed Mar 27 03:13:21 2002

OK everyone, I have a new contest regarding the newest addition to
our family. I am offering 10k for the closest answer in each of the
following categories: Date/Time Katie is born; length; and weight.
In other words 30k is at stake here! Mail me with your guesses. The
contest closes when I go into labor and Katie is born.
Hint: Katie's due date is April 27th and at our last dr appointment
on March 25th she was measured at 35 cm. I have gained 14 lbs
through this pregnancy as of March 25th. 
HAVE FUN Y'ALL!

-----------------

poster: Arkangyle
subject: >Katie contest
date: Wed Mar 27 03:45:50 2002

On Wed Mar 27 03:13:21 2002 Eponine wrote post #1052:
> OK everyone, I have a new contest regarding the newest addition to
> our family. I am offering 10k for the closest answer in each of the
> following categories: Date/Time Katie is born; length; and weight.
> In other words 30k is at stake here! Mail me with your guesses. The
> contest closes when I go into labor and Katie is born.
> Hint: Katie's due date is April 27th and at our last dr appointment
> on March 25th she was measured at 35 cm. I have gained 14 lbs
> through this pregnancy as of March 25th. 
> HAVE FUN Y'ALL!

Why does anyone care about "length" ... what a very odd measurement
unless you are fishing :P

-----------------

poster: Magneto
subject: >>Katie contest
date: Wed Mar 27 05:24:40 2002

On Wed Mar 27 03:45:50 2002 Arkangyle wrote post #1053:
> On Wed Mar 27 03:13:21 2002 Eponine wrote post #1052:
> > OK everyone, I have a new contest regarding the newest addition to
> > our family. I am offering 10k for the closest answer in each of the
> > following categories: Date/Time Katie is born; length; and weight.
> > In other words 30k is at stake here! Mail me with your guesses. The
> > contest closes when I go into labor and Katie is born.
> > Hint: Katie's due date is April 27th and at our last dr appointment
> > on March 25th she was measured at 35 cm. I have gained 14 lbs
> > through this pregnancy as of March 25th. 
> > HAVE FUN Y'ALL!
> 
> Why does anyone care about "length" ... what a very odd measurement
> unless you are fishing :P
yeah ark doesnt like it when you equate more inches to better O:)

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>Long Story Short
date: Wed Mar 27 06:28:39 2002

or at least think up a better story, i mean come on, blaming your
sister, thats 3rd grade stuff, make up something interesting,
something wiht pizzazz.
-lu

-----------------

poster: Sumerion
subject: Nether body
date: Wed Mar 27 11:01:13 2002

Well I have nether for quite some some time and I NEVER died to
nether body until yesterday...since then I died 3 times in a row and
I havn't seen anything in news about a tune..I had full hp all the
times...
what does it depend on?
I kinda want the anwser from a wiz or someone that knows?
Is it suppose to be like this?
1. Bug?
2. Wiz tuned body? WOULD LIKE TO C IT INFORM THEN!

-----------------

poster: Sigwald
subject: >Nether body
date: Wed Mar 27 11:02:06 2002

On Wed Mar 27 11:01:13 2002 Sumerion wrote post #1056:
> Well I have nether for quite some some time and I NEVER died to
> nether body until yesterday...since then I died 3 times in a row and
> I havn't seen anything in news about a tune..I had full hp all the
> times...
> what does it depend on?
> I kinda want the anwser from a wiz or someone that knows?
> Is it suppose to be like this?
> 1. Bug?
> 2. Wiz tuned body? WOULD LIKE TO C IT INFORM THEN!
Nothing changed. Nether body falling always had bad impacts.
The only alteration is that control spell will be gone when body
falls and that's it.

-----------------

poster: Sumerion
subject: >>Nether body
date: Wed Mar 27 11:03:28 2002

On Wed Mar 27 11:02:06 2002 Sigwald wrote post #1057:
> On Wed Mar 27 11:01:13 2002 Sumerion wrote post #1056:
> > Well I have nether for quite some some time and I NEVER died to
> > nether body until yesterday...since then I died 3 times in a row and
> > I havn't seen anything in news about a tune..I had full hp all the
> > times...
> > what does it depend on?
> > I kinda want the anwser from a wiz or someone that knows?
> > Is it suppose to be like this?
> > 1. Bug?
> > 2. Wiz tuned body? WOULD LIKE TO C IT INFORM THEN!
> Nothing changed. Nether body falling always had bad impacts.
> The only alteration is that control spell will be gone when body
> falls and that's it.
NEVER died b4..don't u find that odd...never seen anyone die too
until very recently

-----------------

poster: Sigwald
subject: >>>Nether body
date: Wed Mar 27 11:04:01 2002

On Wed Mar 27 11:03:28 2002 Sumerion wrote post #1058:
> On Wed Mar 27 11:02:06 2002 Sigwald wrote post #1057:
> > On Wed Mar 27 11:01:13 2002 Sumerion wrote post #1056:
> > > Well I have nether for quite some some time and I NEVER died to
> > > nether body until yesterday...since then I died 3 times in a row and
> > > I havn't seen anything in news about a tune..I had full hp all the
> > > times...
> > > what does it depend on?
> > > I kinda want the anwser from a wiz or someone that knows?
> > > Is it suppose to be like this?
> > > 1. Bug?
> > > 2. Wiz tuned body? WOULD LIKE TO C IT INFORM THEN!
> > Nothing changed. Nether body falling always had bad impacts.
> > The only alteration is that control spell will be gone when body
> > falls and that's it.
> NEVER died b4..don't u find that odd...never seen anyone die too
> until very recently
Say what you will, code's the same.

-----------------

poster: Wagro
subject: Nether body
date: Wed Mar 27 16:30:49 2002

since nether body is quite deadly now because of the division
change, could those messages possibly be a lot more noticible, i.e.
being colored, happening much more frequently as it approached
within 5-10 rounds of body dropping?

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >>>Nether body
date: Thu Mar 28 20:09:41 2002

On Wed Mar 27 11:03:28 2002 Sumerion wrote post #1058:
> On Wed Mar 27 11:02:06 2002 Sigwald wrote post #1057:
> > On Wed Mar 27 11:01:13 2002 Sumerion wrote post #1056:
> > > Well I have nether for quite some some time and I NEVER died to
> > > nether body until yesterday...since then I died 3 times in a row and
> > > I havn't seen anything in news about a tune..I had full hp all the
> > > times...
> > > what does it depend on?
> > > I kinda want the anwser from a wiz or someone that knows?
> > > Is it suppose to be like this?
> > > 1. Bug?
> > > 2. Wiz tuned body? WOULD LIKE TO C IT INFORM THEN!
> > Nothing changed. Nether body falling always had bad impacts.
> > The only alteration is that control spell will be gone when body
> > falls and that's it.
> NEVER died b4..don't u find that odd...never seen anyone die too
> until very recently
I had a similar experience with venomous bite.. 20,000 successful
casts with no fails, then like 20 fails in an hour, although no one
believed me or cared. (and no i'm not saying anything is/was wrong
or needs to be fixed with the mud)
art

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>>Nether body
date: Thu Mar 28 20:11:51 2002

artea, nether body doing dmg is NOTHING like the venomus bite
experience you went thorugh, which was prived to be mis

sigwald change the way feed back dmg works(feedback dmg is dmg that
a playert causes to himself with spells and skills)

the orignala intent of nether body was to be a very dngerous spell,
so you had to pay attention to when it was dropping and not let it
fall.  sigs fixed it now, and if you let a filled nether body drop,
your gonna die.

-lu

-----------------

poster: Javier
subject: Happy Easter :)
date: Thu Mar 28 22:06:32 2002

Just wanted to wish everyone a happy Easter weekend, or passover,
ooor whichever you celebrate...
See you all on Monday.
Javi

-----------------

poster: Bahgtru
subject: Recruiting
date: Fri Mar 29 00:52:13 2002

There's a new clan in town, clan H.A.L.L (Hell's Anger Let Loose)

If you're between 10m and 50m in worth, any guild at all, I want
you. Let me know via mudmail, and I'll see what I can do.

Hell is coming people, be on its ally rather than its foe.

- Bag

-----------------

poster: Jaws
subject: erk
date: Fri Mar 29 04:00:59 2002

TF
TFM
TFE
GT
Sorry to those in the party - lost cable modem for a couple hrs

Jaws

-----------------

poster: Mixer
subject: >erk
date: Fri Mar 29 12:40:18 2002

On Fri Mar 29 04:00:59 2002 Jaws wrote post #1066:
> TF
> TFM
> TFE
> GT
> Sorry to those in the party - lost cable modem for a couple hrs
> 
> Jaws
jesus man, 4 lines of trigger spam for a one line message
that you should have mailed to the people involved, anyway.

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >>>>>Nether body
date: Fri Mar 29 19:47:03 2002

>artea, nether body doing dmg is NOTHING like the venomus bite
>-lu
ahh, so sum was just slacking.. oops!

-----------------

poster: Sumerion
subject: >>>>>>Nether body
date: Fri Mar 29 19:47:51 2002

On Fri Mar 29 19:47:03 2002 Artea wrote post #1068:
> >artea, nether body doing dmg is NOTHING like the venomus bite
> >-lu
> ahh, so sum was just slacking.. oops!
I can it testing while idle:P

-----------------

poster: Sumerion
subject: >>>>>>>Nether body
date: Fri Mar 29 19:48:00 2002

On Fri Mar 29 19:47:51 2002 Sumerion wrote post #1069:
> On Fri Mar 29 19:47:03 2002 Artea wrote post #1068:
> > >artea, nether body doing dmg is NOTHING like the venomus bite
> > >-lu
> > ahh, so sum was just slacking.. oops!
> I can it testing while idle:P
call even

-----------------

poster: Smee
subject: Hrm, see
date: Sat Mar 30 20:57:28 2002


Hi

I was supposed to have three blackmon bootses

And I'm wearing one, and I just gave one back to trigon (originally his)
And now, I can't find the one that I was going to give back to
mefeet to use (She was using trigon's)
And I gave trigon his, and I still have the ones I'm wearing, but I
can't find my other ones for mefeet

If I lent them to you, obviously I forgot about it pretty well
Or if I sold it. Either way, I'd like to know so I am not just missing them


Thank
Smee

-----------------

poster: Smee
subject: >Hrm, see
date: Sat Mar 30 21:01:06 2002

On Sat Mar 30 20:57:28 2002 Smee wrote post #1071:
> Hi
> 
> I was supposed to have three blackmon bootses
> 
> And I'm wearing one, and I just gave one back to trigon (originally his)
> And now, I can't find the one that I was going to give back to
> mefeet to use (She was using trigon's)
> And I gave trigon his, and I still have the ones I'm wearing, but I
> can't find my other ones for mefeet
> 
> If I lent them to you, obviously I forgot about it pretty well
> Or if I sold it. Either way, I'd like to know so I am not just missing them
> 
> 
> Thank
> Smee

I am fucking retarded

Smee

-----------------

poster: Terminator
subject: My ring
date: Sun Mar 31 00:12:46 2002

I borrowed 1 of my whispering ring to a healer in my party.
I want to have that ring back plz.


///Terri

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: >>Hrm, see
date: Sun Mar 31 12:43:44 2002

On Sat Mar 30 21:01:06 2002 Smee wrote post #1072:
> On Sat Mar 30 20:57:28 2002 Smee wrote post #1071:
> > Hi
> > 
> > I was supposed to have three blackmon bootses
> > 
> > And I'm wearing one, and I just gave one back to trigon (originally his)
> > And now, I can't find the one that I was going to give back to
> > mefeet to use (She was using trigon's)
> > And I gave trigon his, and I still have the ones I'm wearing, but I
> > can't find my other ones for mefeet
> > 
> > If I lent them to you, obviously I forgot about it pretty well
> > Or if I sold it. Either way, I'd like to know so I am not just missing
them
> > 
> > 
> > Thank
> > Smee
> 
> I am fucking retarded
> 
> Smee
I love you , Smee!
Q

-----------------

poster: Spoof
subject: sorry
date: Tue Apr  2 00:15:13 2002

I'm sorry for being a jerk today
Please forgive me
-Spoof

-----------------

poster: Terminator
subject: My ring
date: Tue Apr  2 16:14:02 2002

Whoever has it plz give it back.

///Terri

-----------------

poster: Terminator
subject: Whispering Ring
date: Tue Apr  2 16:15:53 2002

Its an Whispering Ring....the player that borrowed it was lvl20-30.

-----------------

poster: Sirc
subject: Foodie
date: Wed Apr  3 10:39:06 2002

Food (today) is transferred by Sirc from cs to 16south from cs:P
Thx for the Food Cast help u did!
Cheers
//Best Sirc

-----------------

poster: Draco
subject: ok im stupid
date: Wed Apr  3 19:20:26 2002

forgot that you can only see the clan.general news group if your in
a clan, so im going to repeat what i said here. me lizzie and
belgarion hae started a clan, if you feel that your up to the task,
send me a mail with your application, including worth
level,guilds,reason you want to join, and anything else you think
would be good to know. love ya all.
-draco

-----------------

poster: Mixer
subject: >Whispering Ring
date: Sat Apr  6 01:49:50 2002

On Tue Apr  2 16:15:53 2002 Terminator wrote post #1077:
> Its an Whispering Ring....the player that borrowed it was lvl20-30.
If you can'tremember who you loaned it to, be a man, admit you were
careless adn STFU.

-----------------

poster: Bahgtru
subject: Cauldrons
date: Sat Apr  6 14:48:42 2002

Cauldron filling seems to be out of tune a bit... some fills I get
13 potions from, some I get 4 from...

- Bag

-----------------

poster: Terminator
subject: >>Whispering Ring
date: Sat Apr  6 16:58:09 2002

On Sat Apr  6 01:49:50 2002 Mixer wrote post #1080:
> On Tue Apr  2 16:15:53 2002 Terminator wrote post #1077:
> > Its an Whispering Ring....the player that borrowed it was lvl20-30.
> If you can'tremember who you loaned it to, be a man, admit you were
> careless adn STFU.
Yes i was and i have learned to not borrow stuff to ppl u dont know.

//Terri

-----------------

poster: Celine
subject: >Cauldrons
date: Sat Apr  6 20:24:25 2002

On Sat Apr  6 14:48:42 2002 Bahgtru wrote post #1081:
> Cauldron filling seems to be out of tune a bit... some fills I get
> 13 potions from, some I get 4 from...
> 
> - Bag
I seem to notice something quite similar (mebbe a touch diff
numbers). I only seem to notice the lower amounts though when 
I have one explode in my face. Is it possible this failure use's and
excess of potion-juice?
((pre-apologizes if this is silly, i have only been in the guild for
a total of 4-5 vdays.))

-----------------

poster: Rancor
subject: Cauldron
date: Sun Apr  7 02:06:20 2002

For those of you who ara complaining about your random fills.  Try
actually getting worth and training brewing lore.  It makes your
fill much less random.

-----------------

poster: Uno
subject: stuff
date: Sun Apr  7 03:11:21 2002

i updated my home page, took out brokenlinks, added pics
dunno that it merits a news post but 
i require some sort of validation
for my continued existence, and this seems to 
do the trick for me.

-----------------

poster: Terminator
subject: ToMtEn´s B-day
date: Sun Apr  7 11:57:08 2002

Yes it is his b-day today. His 19th. So spam him when he wakes up
later today =).

Congrats ToM

///Terri

-----------------

poster: Sumerion
subject: >ToMtEn´s B-day
date: Sun Apr  7 11:57:50 2002

On Sun Apr  7 11:57:08 2002 Terminator wrote post #1086:
> Yes it is his b-day today. His 19th. So spam him when he wakes up
> later today =).
> 
> Congrats ToM
> 
> ///Terri
Shouldn't this be on obscene?

-----------------

poster: Terminator
subject: >>ToMtEn´s B-day
date: Sun Apr  7 12:00:14 2002

On Sun Apr  7 11:57:50 2002 Sumerion wrote post #1087:
> On Sun Apr  7 11:57:08 2002 Terminator wrote post #1086:
> > Yes it is his b-day today. His 19th. So spam him when he wakes up
> > later today =).
> > 
> > Congrats ToM
> > 
> > ///Terri
> Shouldn't this be on obscene?
Nod...Posted it on wrong Group.

-----------------

poster: Bob
subject: nothing
date: Sun Apr  7 17:01:26 2002

im sure no one cares, but my birthday is april 23 enjoy

-----------------

poster: Trigon
subject: >ToMtEn´s B-day
date: Sun Apr  7 20:54:06 2002

On Sun Apr  7 11:57:08 2002 Terminator wrote post #1086:
> Yes it is his b-day today. His 19th. So spam him when he wakes up
> later today =).
> 
> Congrats ToM
> 
> ///Terri
That's scary that I have the same birthday as tomten, I feel so
dirty. He's a year older though :)
Trigon is 18 today

-----------------

poster: Oz
subject: www.revoketheprize.org
date: Sun Apr  7 23:40:49 2002

hey.
check the site www.revoketheprize.org
it is basicly a petiton to take yasser arafat's nobel peace prize.
if you agree with what the site says, feel free to sign. if not, don't.
Tom, who was shot at by arabs, and had some of his friends killed by them.

-----------------

poster: Warchief
subject: >>ToMtEn´s B-day
date: Mon Apr  8 00:39:28 2002

On Sun Apr  7 20:54:06 2002 Trigon wrote post #1090:
> On Sun Apr  7 11:57:08 2002 Terminator wrote post #1086:
> > Yes it is his b-day today. His 19th. So spam him when he wakes up
> > later today =).
> > 
> > Congrats ToM
> > 
> > ///Terri
> That's scary that I have the same birthday as tomten, I feel so
> dirty. He's a year older though :)
> Trigon is 18 today
Ha, I will be 19 on April 17 ;)

-Chief

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: Devastating Attack
date: Mon Apr  8 01:34:51 2002

I'm curious....I've been fighting with combat silent off (v. annoying)
so that I can see messages.  With 20 critical hits, Devastating Attack
hasn't gone off once.  I have trained it to 90%.  Does it actually
do anything?  Is this a bug?  Is this a question?

-----------------

poster: Sirc
subject: New Website
date: Mon Apr  8 19:25:38 2002

I have now an new website, u can find it on http://sirc-rd.cjb.net
//cheers Sirc

-----------------

poster: Xerious
subject: >Devastating Attack
date: Mon Apr  8 20:47:52 2002

On Mon Apr  8 01:34:51 2002 Tahnval wrote post #1093:
> I'm curious....I've been fighting with combat silent off (v. annoying)
> so that I can see messages.  With 20 critical hits, Devastating Attack
> hasn't gone off once.  I have trained it to 90%.  Does it actually
> do anything?  Is this a bug?  Is this a question?
From what I've been able to tell, when combat silent is 1 it
condenses ALL the combat related messages regarding hits mad to "You
hit %mob X time(s)."  I have found this true with the Ornate Sword
that has a special attack that Has been about 65% efficient, and I
never see the message that it "twirls into %mob body..." anymore.

-----------------

poster: Tahnval
subject: >>Devastating Attack
date: Mon Apr  8 21:08:35 2002

On Mon Apr  8 20:47:52 2002 Xerious wrote post #1095:
> On Mon Apr  8 01:34:51 2002 Tahnval wrote post #1093:
> > I'm curious....I've been fighting with combat silent off (v. annoying)
> > so that I can see messages.  With 20 critical hits, Devastating Attack
> > hasn't gone off once.  I have trained it to 90%.  Does it actually
> > do anything?  Is this a bug?  Is this a question?
> From what I've been able to tell, when combat silent is 1 it
> condenses ALL the combat related messages regarding hits mad to "You
> hit %mob X time(s)."  I have found this true with the Ornate Sword
> that has a special attack that Has been about 65% efficient, and I
> never see the message that it "twirls into %mob body..." anymore.
"I've been fighting with combat silent off"
&&

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: cool picture
date: Thu Apr 11 02:27:16 2002

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg

This is really a sight to behold. The image is a panoramic view of
the world from the new space station. It is a night photo with the
lights clearly indicating the populated areas. You can scroll
East-West and North-South. Note that Canada's population is almost
exclusively along the U.S. border. Moving east to Europe, there is a
high population concentration along the Mediterranean Coast. It's
easy to spot London, Paris, Stockholm and Vienna. 

Note the Nile River and the rest of the "Dark Continent." After the
Nile, the lights don't come on again until Johannesburg. Look at the
Australian Outback and the Trans-Siberian Rail Route. Moving east,
the most striking observation is the difference between North and
South Korea. Note the density of Japan. What a piece of photography.
It is an absolutely awesome picture of the Earth taken from the
Boeing built Space Station last November on perfect night with no
obscuring atmospheric conditions. 

-----------------

poster: Ztaffan
subject: Homepage
date: Fri Apr 12 18:21:58 2002

Ok, me, Zazu and Dojjan, mostly Zazu is working on a homepage with
pictures of mudders from Red Dragon.
We love to have your picture in it!!
We currently have, Graxon, Me, Zazu, Dojjan, Elvensheart, Smee, Oz,
Rodo, Katerina, Tistoo, Lu, Golte, Fraziw and lots of others.. IF we
have your piz and you don't want it there, please send a mail to
zazu_smarty@yahoo.se and tell!
Plz send picture of you to that email to!
Well hope I see you there..
The webpage is currently under construcion but it will be up at
monday. And can be found (temperarly) at http://membe
s01.chello.se/lummox/  

Z

-----------------

poster: Ztaffan
subject: >Homepage
date: Fri Apr 12 19:26:18 2002

On Fri Apr 12 18:21:58 2002 Ztaffan wrote post #1098:
> Ok, me, Zazu and Dojjan, mostly Zazu is working on a homepage with
> pictures of mudders from Red Dragon.
> We love to have your picture in it!!
> We currently have, Graxon, Me, Zazu, Dojjan, Elvensheart, Smee, Oz,
> Rodo, Katerina, Tistoo, Lu, Golte, Fraziw and lots of others.. IF we
> have your piz and you don't want it there, please send a mail to
> zazu_smarty@yahoo.se and tell!
> Plz send picture of you to that email to!
> Well hope I see you there..
> The webpage is currently under construcion but it will be up at
> monday. And can be found (temperarly) at http://membe
> s01.chello.se/lummox/  
> 
> Z
Ok, the homepage is up and running, visit it at
http://members01.chello.se/lummox/
if you find any broken links or mistypoing, please mudmail me or mail zazu!

Z

-----------------

poster: Apathy
subject: java client
date: Sun Apr 14 07:05:35 2002

I'm going to be working on the java mudclient shortly, so if you
make use of it and there's some functionality you want to see in it,
let me know via mudmail.

-Apathy

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: fincon
date: Mon Apr 15 19:44:35 2002

alias fincon naked mud orgy, Alias 'fincon' added.

-----------------

poster: Javier
subject: Hotmail
date: Thu Apr 18 02:26:09 2002

This was sent to me by hotmail, this is for anyone who gets those
corny "Forward this to 10 people or your hotmail account will be
closed" e-mails...stop the tedious e-mail forwarding!

Don’t be fooled by e-mail hoaxes
Scams and hoaxes abound on the Web, so it’s important that you keep
a sharp eye out for suspicious looking e-mails. One such e-mail
purports to be from MSN Hotmail, and states that if you do not
forward the message to 10 friends, your account will be closed. MSN
Hotmail accounts will ONLY be closed if you do not log into your
account for more than 30 days. So if you receive an e-mail asking
you to forward the message to your friends, ignore it. 

Also beware of e-mails with subject lines beginning with "FW" or "RE"; 
e-mails appearing to be chain letters; and e-mails that ask you to
reveal your password. 

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >Hotmail
date: Thu Apr 18 02:27:46 2002

On Thu Apr 18 02:26:09 2002 Javier wrote post #1102:
> This was sent to me by hotmail, this is for anyone who gets those
> corny "Forward this to 10 people or your hotmail account will be
> closed" e-mails...stop the tedious e-mail forwarding!
> 
> Don’t be fooled by e-mail hoaxes
> Scams and hoaxes abound on the Web, so it’s important that you keep
> a sharp eye out for suspicious looking e-mails. One such e-mail
> purports to be from MSN Hotmail, and states that if you do not
> forward the message to 10 friends, your account will be closed. MSN
> Hotmail accounts will ONLY be closed if you do not log into your
> account for more than 30 days. So if you receive an e-mail asking
> you to forward the message to your friends, ignore it. 
> 
> Also beware of e-mails with subject lines beginning with "FW" or "RE"; 
> e-mails appearing to be chain letters; and e-mails that ask you to
> reveal your password. 
i'd like to throw out a big fat DUH =) does that sound like
something a major company would do?
art

-----------------

poster: Javier
subject: Hotmail, cont...
date: Thu Apr 18 03:02:45 2002

No, it doesn't sound like something a major company would do, but apparently 
enough people think that it DOES sound like something a major company would do
because I keep getting 400 goddamn "foward this to 100 people or your hotmail
account will be deleted" ... 

-----------------

poster: Wildchild
subject: >Hotmail, cont...
date: Thu Apr 18 05:37:44 2002

On Thu Apr 18 03:02:45 2002 Javier wrote post #1104:
> No, it doesn't sound like something a major company would do, but
apparently 
> enough people think that it DOES sound like something a major company
would do
> because I keep getting 400 goddamn "foward this to 100 people or your
hotmail
> account will be deleted" ... 

Simple solution: don't use Hotmail.

-WC

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >Hotmail, cont...
date: Thu Apr 18 06:48:55 2002

On Thu Apr 18 03:02:45 2002 Javier wrote post #1104:
> No, it doesn't sound like something a major company would do, but
apparently 
> enough people think that it DOES sound like something a major company
would do
> because I keep getting 400 goddamn "foward this to 100 people or your
hotmail
> account will be deleted" ... 
i get pr0n.. lots of pr0n
art

-----------------

poster: Balinor
subject: Thieves!
date: Thu Apr 18 08:43:16 2002

Ok,i hope i'm wrong on this one...
Making new ec-decay rule and thus forcing everyone in room to combat is right?
Ok,what about rogues,backstabbing is no longer used since you are in combat?
Or does hide help you stay out from combat?
Anyway,this needs a peek into...
-Bal

-----------------

poster: Ronin
subject: clan
date: Thu Apr 18 10:17:40 2002

I am looking for some people for my clan. mail me if interested

-Ronin

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >Thieves!
date: Thu Apr 18 14:10:52 2002

On Thu Apr 18 08:43:16 2002 Balinor wrote post #1107:
> Ok,i hope i'm wrong on this one...
> Making new ec-decay rule and thus forcing everyone in room to combat is
right?
> Ok,what about rogues,backstabbing is no longer used since you are in combat?
> Or does hide help you stay out from combat?
> Anyway,this needs a peek into...
> -Bal
no it doesnt. 

Backstab is meant to _start_ combat, not be used every cahnce
you get because you are out of combat.

-----------------

poster: Balinor
subject: >>Thieves!
date: Thu Apr 18 14:11:46 2002

Oh, rogues stay out of combat? or you mean waiting for 4 rounds
before starting a fight?

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>>Thieves!
date: Thu Apr 18 14:13:28 2002

On Thu Apr 18 14:11:46 2002 Balinor wrote post #1110:
> Oh, rogues stay out of combat? or you mean waiting for 4 rounds
> before starting a fight?

Quoted from your post....

    Ok,what about rogues,backstabbing is no longer used since you
are in combat?


Backstab is meant to start combat, not be used repeatedly over and
over again because you found a loop hole where you coudl repeatedly
use it.

-----------------

poster: Balinor
subject: >>>>Thieves!
date: Thu Apr 18 14:19:11 2002

what i meant, was that rogues are forced to combat now. No exp
groups will wait for you to do your 4 rounds backstab.
I wasn't talking about backstabbing in combat, i know it's not
suppose to be that way.

-----------------

poster: Balinor
subject: >>>>>Thieves!
date: Thu Apr 18 14:20:29 2002

A simple solution: make hide help rogues to stay our of combat until
they stab?

-----------------

poster: Hierokliff
subject: >>>>>Thieves!
date: Thu Apr 18 14:21:59 2002

On Thu Apr 18 14:19:11 2002 Balinor wrote post #1112:
> what i meant, was that rogues are forced to combat now. No exp
> groups will wait for you to do your 4 rounds backstab.
> I wasn't talking about backstabbing in combat, i know it's not
> suppose to be that way.
Think thieves shouldnt party at all, so this is a good thing...
allthough if they could solo or do real good with a healer then
they would be happy...but really doubt they can do that, so just
wait for changes, play another guild or play another mud...

//Hierokliff

-----------------

poster: Lu
subject: >>>>Thieves!
date: Thu Apr 18 15:15:36 2002

i think what bal is trying to get at, is that before the change,
other members of a party could start a fight, and then the rogue
could kick in with backstab when he wanted, now with  the change the
whoel party has to wait for backttab to kick in before they can
start fighting

-lu

-----------------

poster: Quillz
subject: >Hotmail, cont...
date: Thu Apr 18 15:41:04 2002

On Thu Apr 18 03:02:45 2002 Javier wrote post #1104:
> No, it doesn't sound like something a major company would do, but
apparently 
> enough people think that it DOES sound like something a major company
would do
> because I keep getting 400 goddamn "foward this to 100 people or your
hotmail
> account will be deleted" ... 
I just delete those. 
Hotmail-suckass.  
Easy to hide shit in. 
Go get yahoo.  

ps.  hotmail only lets you block 250 addresses.  
therefore hotmail-suckass.
Do you like the fact they sell your email to every porn site out there?
I dont. 
hotmail-suckass
Q

ps. 
Did I mention hotmail-suckass?

-----------------

poster: Litho
subject: >>>>>Thieves!
date: Thu Apr 18 22:15:54 2002

go juggles, get motion control
that can make bstab be 1-2 rounds.

-----------------

poster: Trigon
subject: >>>>>>Thieves!
date: Thu Apr 18 22:50:47 2002

Comparing a similar skill, charge, which is in fighter omicron. 
This skill also can only be used to start combat, but it is only 3
rounds.  I think taking backstab down to 3 rounds would be a useful
change since members are forced into combat and really wouldn't
affect the game that much.  But motion control, as litho pointed
out, would help a large amount if backstab stays at 4 rounds.
Trigon

-----------------

poster: Mixer
subject: >>Hotmail, cont...
date: Fri Apr 19 10:52:31 2002

On Thu Apr 18 05:37:44 2002 Wildchild wrote post #1105:
> On Thu Apr 18 03:02:45 2002 Javier wrote post #1104:
> > No, it doesn't sound like something a major company would do, but
> apparently 
> > enough people think that it DOES sound like something a major company
> would do
> > because I keep getting 400 goddamn "foward this to 100 people or your
> hotmail
> > account will be deleted" ... 
> 
> Simple solution: don't use Hotmail.
> 
> -WC
Even simpler solution: disown any friend who is empty-headed
and gullible enough to forward this to you!

-----------------

poster: Caliban
subject: Party
date: Fri Apr 19 17:55:45 2002

I apologize to Raw, Fortran, and Justus. Earlier this morning
we were doing xp and my friggin cable went out and of course 
being connected to a cable modem I lost my connection for a couple
of hours. Once again I am sorry guys. 
of hours. Once again I am sorry guys. 
grumble damned zmud

-Cal

-----------------

poster: Xerious
subject: Star Wars fans...
date: Sat Apr 20 01:56:07 2002

Read my plan (finger me) to find out more...

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: exp wishes
date: Sat Apr 20 09:47:11 2002

Nezmaniac              2,116,763         20     84,670         20
Artea                  2,686,890         26    107,475         26
Zephyrus               2,632,370         25    105,294         25
Oz                     2,697,948         26    107,917         26

Oz and I are both snakeman, both about 1.7g, I have 111% exp rate,
Oz has 96% exp rate. Last i heard, in parties your the exp you get
is partially based on your personal exp rate and partially based on
the parties collective exp rate.


Oz [IDLEfolk]: You receive 67894 exp.
Nezmaniac [IDLEfolk]: You feel Oz is worth 1,770,485,812 xp.

Artea [IDLEfolk]: You receive 67616 exp.
Nezmaniac [IDLEfolk]: You feel Artea is worth 1,765,278,373 xp.

I see no advantage to my exp wishes in parties.  This is neither a
bitch nore a moan, I am reincing out of the exp wishes anyways, but
I thought I would bring this to the admins attention.

 
arteaprot focused mind down
art

-----------------

poster: Mixer
subject: >exp wishes
date: Sat Apr 20 09:51:17 2002

On Sat Apr 20 09:47:11 2002 Artea wrote post #1122:
> Nezmaniac              2,116,763         20     84,670         20
> Artea                  2,686,890         26    107,475         26
> Zephyrus               2,632,370         25    105,294         25
> Oz                     2,697,948         26    107,917         26
> 
> Oz and I are both snakeman, both about 1.7g, I have 111% exp rate,
> Oz has 96% exp rate. Last i heard, in parties your the exp you get
> is partially based on your personal exp rate and partially based on
> the parties collective exp rate.
> 
> 
> Oz [IDLEfolk]: You receive 67894 exp.
> Nezmaniac [IDLEfolk]: You feel Oz is worth 1,770,485,812 xp.
> 
> Artea [IDLEfolk]: You receive 67616 exp.
> Nezmaniac [IDLEfolk]: You feel Artea is worth 1,765,278,373 xp.
> 
> I see no advantage to my exp wishes in parties.  This is neither a
> bitch nore a moan, I am reincing out of the exp wishes anyways, but
> I thought I would bring this to the admins attention.
> 
>  
> arteaprot focused mind down
> art
If I remember correctly, party XP does not take into account
xp rate at all.

-----------------

poster: Coal
subject: exp whishes
date: Sat Apr 20 09:53:20 2002

The way it was explained to me what that the parties collective xp
rates were averaged and that was what determined your share, not
your individual xp rates.

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >exp whishes
date: Sat Apr 20 09:55:00 2002

On Sat Apr 20 09:53:20 2002 Coal wrote post #1124:
> The way it was explained to me what that the parties collective xp
> rates were averaged and that was what determined your share, not
> your individual xp rates.
i seem to remember a post saying they changed it to party party/party personal
art

-----------------

poster: Coal
subject: exp
date: Sat Apr 20 10:01:51 2002

Mixer informed me i'm wrong, please don't regard any of my rantings
as truth, I suffer from MIS (mortal imagination syndrome), Give me
pills. Give me rubber boots. Give me a velcro suit and lock me in a
room with and xp button. *rocks back and forth*
-Coalpants_is_delusional

-----------------

poster: Oz
subject: >>exp whishes
date: Sat Apr 20 10:01:51 2002

xpwho also shows, that we have made almost identical amounts of xp:
Oz                 3,118,208
Artea              3,105,408

i think maybe xprate in parties should be looked at. a race with
higer stats that has a lower xprate, is having an easier time in
parties, just as he does soloing.

Oz.

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: >>>exp whishes
date: Sat Apr 20 11:45:42 2002

On Sat Apr 20 10:01:51 2002 Oz wrote post #1127:
> xpwho also shows, that we have made almost identical amounts of xp:
> Oz                 3,118,208
> Artea              3,105,408
> 
> i think maybe xprate in parties should be looked at. a race with
> higer stats that has a lower xprate, is having an easier time in
> parties, just as he does soloing.
> 
> Oz.

Maybe, but his lower xp rate means he is making the whole party getting
a lower rate.

Khosan

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >exp whishes
date: Sat Apr 20 14:47:53 2002

On Sat Apr 20 09:53:20 2002 Coal wrote post #1124:
> The way it was explained to me what that the parties collective xp
> rates were averaged and that was what determined your share, not
> your individual xp rates.
That is correct, I am not sure why it is that way, but thats
the way it has been for ever.

-----------------

poster: Zifnab
subject: >>exp whishes
date: Sat Apr 20 14:54:05 2002

On Sat Apr 20 14:47:53 2002 Zifnab wrote post #1129:
> On Sat Apr 20 09:53:20 2002 Coal wrote post #1124:
> > The way it was explained to me what that the parties collective xp
> > rates were averaged and that was what determined your share, not
> > your individual xp rates.
> That is correct, I am not sure why it is that way, but thats
> the way it has been for ever.

Just wanted to clarify, its nto even a straight average of the
parties exp rates, it is slihtly modified by the party shares
again thats the way it has been for a long time.

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: >>>exp whishes
date: Sat Apr 20 15:56:16 2002

On Sat Apr 20 14:54:05 2002 Zifnab wrote post #1130:
> On Sat Apr 20 14:47:53 2002 Zifnab wrote post #1129:
> > On Sat Apr 20 09:53:20 2002 Coal wrote post #1124:
> > > The way it was explained to me what that the parties collective xp
> > > rates were averaged and that was what determined your share, not
> > > your individual xp rates.
> > That is correct, I am not sure why it is that way, but thats
> > the way it has been for ever.
> 
> Just wanted to clarify, its nto even a straight average of the
> parties exp rates, it is slihtly modified by the party shares
> again thats the way it has been for a long time.

It is actually a pretty clever algorithm. It makes it so that the total
exp earned after race tax for the party as a whole stays the same.

The reasoning is logical too. If a player choices a powerfull race with
a sucky exp rate, everyone in the party gets the benifits. The same goes
if a player has a sucky race with a great exp rate, everyone in the party
suffers from his lower perfomance. So it is only fair that all party members
share the price in higher or lower exp rate too. That is why everyone
get the same party exp rate.

The argument might not hold for the exp rate wish. But the other wishes are
not accounted for either when calculating your exp share in the party.
The exp rate wish is not wasted, it just averaged out on all members of
the party. So if you invite someone which has a exp rate wish, everyone
gets a better exp rate.

Khosan

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: exp wishes
date: Sat Apr 20 20:10:40 2002

Here is the post i'm referring to, its inform # 75


I've made a slight modifications to way exp is gained in parties.
Party shares were left unchanged (they seem pretty much ok).
However the way exp rate in party is calculated changed a bit.
It used to calculate an average party rate from all members
personal exp rates, which tends to disadvantage high exp rate
races quite some.
From now on (new parties that is), the exp gained will be affected
both by the calculated average party rate and the member personal
exp rate, which should make it a bit more fair for high exp rate
races.

Sigwald

i believe sigwald just said party exp would be based partly on
personal rate and party on party rate
art

-----------------

poster: Kiliana
subject: wishes
date: Sat Apr 20 20:28:02 2002

the xp wish is bunk. it should be left completely out of the
equation, using the party formulas without the wish to calculate the
xp. then, after that total is given to the players, the wishes
should increase it by however many percent the wish is for.
"sharing" a wish with your party is kinda dumb.. i mean, if your
going to split your wish among the whole party, you might as well
make greater regen give a few points to everbody, instead of
hoarding it all to yourself. tps should be YOUR bonus, not
everybodys.

-----------------

poster: Khosan
subject: >wishes
date: Sat Apr 20 22:32:21 2002

On Sat Apr 20 20:28:02 2002 Kiliana wrote post #1135:
> the xp wish is bunk. it should be left completely out of the
> equation, using the party formulas without the wish to calculate the
> xp. then, after that total is given to the players, the wishes
> should increase it by however many percent the wish is for.
> "sharing" a wish with your party is kinda dumb.. i mean, if your
> going to split your wish among the whole party, you might as well
> make greater regen give a few points to everbody, instead of
> hoarding it all to yourself. tps should be YOUR bonus, not
> everybodys.

If a blaster takes greater regen, he can blast more, and everyone in the
party gets more exp, not just the blaster. Would you like use to take that
into account too?

How much extra share should the never hungry wish then give?

Khosan

-----------------

poster: Tektor
subject: Party Shares
date: Sat Apr 20 22:42:22 2002

For those of you complaining look at it this way. What about the
people who pick stronger races with less exp rates. Is it fair in a
party that say the tank should get the least amount simply because
hes a better tank for the party, or is more fair that his share
doesn't cripple him? Is it fair that the healer can do his job by
picking a better caster race but with a less exp rate? For the
people who pick races with better exp rates the race is weaker and
there for your exp rate makes up for it to the rest of the party. In
reality the only reason why your getting less is because  your not
as worth much. If you want to get more exp, then simply get more
worth.

-----------------

poster: Artea
subject: >Party Shares
date: Sat Apr 20 23:30:01 2002

On Sat Apr 20 22:42:22 2002 Tektor wrote post #1137:
> For those of you complaining look at it this way. What about the
> people who pick stronger races with less exp rates. Is it fair in a
> party that say the tank should get the least amount simply because
> hes a better tank for the party, or is more fair that his share
> doesn't cripple him? Is it fair that the healer can do his job by
> picking a better caster race but with a less exp rate? For the
> people who pick races with better exp rates the race is weaker and
> there for your exp rate makes up for it to the rest of the party. In
> reality the only reason why your getting less is because  your not
> as worth much. If you want to get more exp, then simply get more
> worth.
Tektor, I'm not complaining.  In fact I agree with Khosan that its
logical for the exp rate to be party-based.  After all, if I take
exp wishes, that makes me that much less powerful then if I say took
skill wishes, so the party should benefit from it.  My point is that
the last inform message reguarding exp rates said that the formula
worked otherwise, and I took my wishes accordingly.
art

-----------------

poster: Lostego
subject: Pickpocket
date: Sun Apr 21 00:31:20 2002

Was thinking w/o open pk , pickpocket should be removed. Because it
causes player vs player stuff etc.

-----------------

poster: Javier
subject: >Pickpocket
date: Sun Apr 21 01:37:14 2002

On Sun Apr 21 00:31:20 2002 Lostego wrote post #1140:
> Was thinking w/o open pk , pickpocket should be removed. Because it
> causes player vs player stuff etc.
I respect this point as a good one, but consider for a moment that it's
a skill particular to thieves...and a bunch of skills that make thieves, well
thieves, create player vs player issues...wouldn't it sort of defeat
the purpose
of having a thieves guild to remove the skills unique to it? 
Please feel free to dismiss this as me talking out of my ass...
Javi

-----------------

poster: Tektor
subject: >>Pickpocket
date: Sun Apr 21 01:39:08 2002

On Sun Apr 21 01:37:14 2002 Javier wrote post #1141:
> On Sun Apr 21 00:31:20 2002 Lostego wrote post #1140:
> > Was thinking w/o open pk , pickpocket should be removed. Because it
> > causes player vs player stuff etc.
> I respect this point as a good one, but consider for a moment that it's
> a skill particular to thieves...and a bunch of skills that make thieves,
well
> thieves, create player vs player issues...wouldn't it sort of defeat
> the purpose
> of having a thieves guild to remove the skills unique to it? 
> Please feel free to dismiss this as me talking out of my ass...
> Javi
See thats what the problem is with trying to fix the thief guild, it
was made for a player vs player mud, the mud is no longer player vs
player.